Pit General Match-Up Thread

[Hinichii.ez.™]

What's the MU like against falcon?

 

[Conti]

i assume our favor, ive yet to lose to any falcon, but i havent versed a falcon main good enough to make me take back that statement (very few people actually main him it seems, hes everyones' fk around character). Pits Fair and Dair with good spacing just kinda beats him out and hes easy to combo, and extremely easy to gimp. just dont trade the Knee, but ur fair is faster then the knee so yea, space :3. Thats my 2cents, i could go in depth, but i just dont see falcon beating pit unless its a good dedicated falcon main with them falcon mindgames and tech chases ya know , I'd wait for Zero for the OP Analysis :3

 

[Red Rice]

I attended a local PM tourney (I main melee) yesterday and decided to play around with Pit, after watching Armada and Zero. Pit is HELLA fun to play, his combo game reminds me of sheik with a sword + puff. Dair pops them up and then you can wall of pain them with flashy arrows to extend the combo.

Dair OoS is SO GOOD. Such an amazing combo starter. Dthrow dair > uair > uair > fair or up-b ethetha;eo5unyerghe gah I love Pit combos

 

[Liquid Brick]

lmao, a spacie player getting excited over Pit's combo game. That's awesome to hear.

Hey, does anyone know how to handle Yoshi? I have no idea about this MU because I hardly see Yoshi used in PM and that scares me...His DJC U-Airs and N-Airs and Up B shenanigans seem to give him an eggcellent (I'm so not sorry) anti-air game. Once parries get fixed, he's only gonna get worse to fight against =[

 

[Red Rice]

Something that works for me as Pit, (I just played a lot of PM friendlies today), is that his dash dance game is really strong. Similar to Marth's in melee. It's easy to bait out moves by dash dancing, in addition to his arrows, people will always approach you so getting grabs and dairs are ezpz.

So in terms of Yoshi, I don't think his approach game is very strong and you can definitely out camp him (arrows >>>>>> eggs). His weight is perfect to dthrow dair chain to 50-60 until he's off stage and then you just do Armada things c:

Edit: How can/should I practice my arrow game? In terms of in the neutral game as well as in the combo game when I'm off stage extending the fair combos with arrows? I feel like I miss a lot of them, any tips are tricks that help?

Also I see that Zero does fair > side-b glide cancel > fair when the second fair can't reach with a normal jump - just an observation that I'm going to start implementing in my game

 

[Player -0]

lmao, a spacie player getting excited over Pit's combo game. That's awesome to hear.

Hey, does anyone know how to handle Yoshi? I have no idea about this MU because I hardly see Yoshi used in PM and that scares me...His DJC U-Airs and N-Airs and Up B shenanigans seem to give him an eggcellent (I'm so not sorry) anti-air game. Once parries get fixed, he's only gonna get worse to fight against =[

Pretty sure attacking/spacing Yoshi in neutral with Fairs can be unsafe because of the nature of his knockback eating DJ + DJC.

For his recovery you can footstool him on the way up if he isn't rising with a move. At higher percents you can actually Fair/Bair/things his DJ since it's actually subtractive knockback armor and not super armor.

As Rice said I think arrows clank with eggs (if they're close enough they'll hurt you) and are overall more spammable. I think the way the egg works is that it has an initial hitbox that clanks with everything and a second hitbox that'll hit you not matter what move you use (not disjointed), I'm not sure though.

If Yoshi tries to Side-B you then camp the air like MK in brawl with Dairs or space with Fairs and try to scoop him up. Pretty sure Egg roll leads into combos.

Watch out for jab -> Down-B. I think this worked in Brawl but I don't know if it does in P:M. It's probably an awkward mixup though.

 

[Liquid Brick]

Edit: How can/should I practice my arrow game? In terms of in the neutral game as well as in the combo game when I'm off stage extending the fair combos with arrows? I feel like I miss a lot of them, any tips are tricks that help?

If you're ok with using vBrawl to practice arrow looping (Pit's arrows behave the same in terms of direction), then I would suggest going this route: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aE3uOoFxat8

That's pretty much how Brawl Pits practiced learning Pit's arrows. I didn't have to practice for too long, even coming from a Melee background (I played Marth, who has no projectiles). You can even look up some older brawl players like Sagemoon because they got down arrow looping less than a month after Brawl came out.
If you would rather practice in PM, I found a way to practice using Hyrule Temple, and if you want, I could make a shoddy MS Paint map...but it would give you the proper idea.

Once you understand Pit's arrows and their general movement, I would suggest going to Smashville and while standing on the moving platform, shoot arrows at a moving Jiggs, M2, or Peach above you. Getting a friend to help you here is pretty nice, but the lower level computers should do ok. Those characters have great air mobility and either a float or multiple jumps to stay in the air. From there, just learn how to adjust Pit's arrows, and practice shooting a CPU Fox as he recovers with Up B. It's a little hard at first, but it is by no means impossible to gain control of arrows in let's say, less than a week.

Oh and thanks for your advice on the Yoshi MU. You too, Player-0.

 

[Red Rice]

If you're ok with using vBrawl to practice arrow looping (Pit's arrows behave the same in terms of direction), then I would suggest going this route: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aE3uOoFxat8

That's pretty much how Brawl Pits practiced learning Pit's arrows. I didn't have to practice for too long, even coming from a Melee background (I played Marth, who has no projectiles). You can even look up some older brawl players like Sagemoon because they got down arrow looping less than a month after Brawl came out.
If you would rather practice in PM, I found a way to practice using Hyrule Temple, and if you want, I could make a shoddy MS Paint map...but it would give you the proper idea.

Once you understand Pit's arrows and their general movement, I would suggest going to Smashville and while standing on the moving platform, shoot arrows at a moving Jiggs, M2, or Peach above you. Getting a friend to help you here is pretty nice, but the lower level computers should do ok. Those characters have great air mobility and either a float or multiple jumps to stay in the air. From there, just learn how to adjust Pit's arrows, and practice shooting a CPU Fox as he recovers with Up B. It's a little hard at first, but it is by no means impossible to gain control of arrows in let's say, less than a week.

Oh and thanks for your advice on the Yoshi MU. You too, Player-0.

Thanks, this was exactly what I was looking for

 

[Red Rice]

@CT ZeRo, what are your favorite stages as Pit? Is there a stage where Pit shines, like Marth on FD or spacies on PS?

It seems like Smashville, Battlefield, and FD are really good stages for combos. Smashville and Battlefield against mid-floaty characters and FD for the fast faller combos. I feel like Pit generally wants a small/medium size stage with platforms

 

[Life]

Not Zero, but I seem to do well on PS2.

I feel like I can't do anything against Meta Knight. One of the few people left at my PM local to consistently outperform me is a Shielda/MK player. I can handle Shielda (he still has the edge but it's relatively close) but MK seems to have an answer for everything I do, and I can't seem to punish him on shield if he's not in grab range. Meanwhile if I do get a hit he can pretty much nair or dair out of most of my combos (or am I just not fast enough?) while he can combo me much more safely, and he kills earlier as well. What do? Am I missing some options? I think I played a match against him on stream, I can dig that up if it's helpful.

(There's also a very good Link, but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it--haven't played him yet.)

 

[Liquid Brick]

Also not Zero (sadly)

Pit does well on stages with a low/medium ceiling, and medium/large side blastzones. He can kill off the top easily enough with UAir, Up-B, and USmash. With those side blastzones, he can carry people offstage to a point where only he can make it back, because remember, you don't have to force the opponent past the blastzones, you just need to make sure they can't make it back to the stage. Another important thing: it is MUCH harder to aim offstage arrows if your opponent is in the magnifying glass when they're on the border of the blastzone, meaning it is much harder to aim arrows offstage in general if the sides are too close. A stage that floats (no bottom wall thingy) is cool, as Pit can glide underneath a lot of stages. And as he can't walljump himself, there's no real benefit to having those walls there. Platforms are very useful, as Pit can Shark beneath a platform with UAir or USmash while getting reads off of rolls and techs above him. Arrows are a great way to follow up rolls on Platforms across the stage, meaning Pit doesn't really care about the positioning of the platforms or the distance between them. What he does mind are the heights of the platforms and how wide those platforms are. If the platforms are too low (like PS1) then your chain grabs on the fastfallers will be interrupted sooner. Pit is also tall enough that some moves can hit him through a low platform, like Falco DAir'ing you on Fountain, but what is more important is the size of the platforms. Stay away from large single platforms like on Yoshi's Island, as they are SIGNIFICANTLY harder to Shark through. They can give additional space for opponents to run around on, making it possible for you to miss your follow ups on a techroll. Platforms with a width and height of Battlefield, Marth's Story, and PS2 are all great for Pit to abuse. He also does really well on FD as arrow spam and chaingrabs are real. As for the size of the stage, it doesn't matter too much, but keep in mind that slower characters tend to do better on smaller stages, and the less ground you have, the less real estate you can control with your high ground speed.

TL;DR: Good: Battlefield, Smashville, PS2. Bad: Fountain of Dreams, Yoshi's Island, and Fountain of Dreams (I hate that place).

 

[Red Rice]

Also not Zero (sadly)

Pit does well on stages with a low/medium ceiling, and medium/large side blastzones. He can kill off the top easily enough with UAir, Up-B, and USmash. With those side blastzones, he can carry people offstage to a point where only he can make it back, because remember, you don't have to force the opponent past the blastzones, you just need to make sure they can't make it back to the stage. Another important thing: it is MUCH harder to aim offstage arrows if your opponent is in the magnifying glass when they're on the border of the blastzone, meaning it is much harder to aim arrows offstage in general if the sides are too close. A stage that floats (no bottom wall thingy) is cool, as Pit can glide underneath a lot of stages. And as he can't walljump himself, there's no real benefit to having those walls there. Platforms are very useful, as Pit can Shark beneath a platform with UAir or USmash while getting reads off of rolls and techs above him. Arrows are a great way to follow up rolls on Platforms across the stage, meaning Pit doesn't really care about the positioning of the platforms or the distance between them. What he does mind are the heights of the platforms and how wide those platforms are. If the platforms are too low (like PS1) then your chain grabs on the fastfallers will be interrupted sooner. Pit is also tall enough that some moves can hit him through a low platform, like Falco DAir'ing you on Fountain, but what is more important is the size of the platforms. Stay away from large single platforms like on Yoshi's Island, as they are SIGNIFICANTLY harder to Shark through. They can give additional space for opponents to run around on, making it possible for you to miss your follow ups on a techroll. Platforms with a width and height of Battlefield, Marth's Story, and PS2 are all great for Pit to abuse. He also does really well on FD as arrow spam and chaingrabs are real. As for the size of the stage, it doesn't matter too much, but keep in mind that slower characters tend to do better on smaller stages, and the less ground you have, the less real estate you can control with your high ground speed.

TL;DR: Good: Battlefield, Smashville, PS2. Bad: Fountain of Dreams, Yoshi's Island, and Fountain of Dreams (I hate that place).

Thanks for the reply. So I have a pretty good general idea of where Pit likes to go - Smashville has been my every CP so far if my opponent doesn't choose to ban it. In the case that they ban Smashville + FD + Battlefield, I guess my choice would be PS2? I'm a huge fan of low ceilings because I love uair/up b kills but if anybody CPed YS1 against me, I would probably just switch to Fox lol. How about Pit on Warioware? I'm never sure if I should ban it because the ceiling is super low and the platforms let me tech chase with dair/uair pretty easily. Hahaha, I love FoD just for the reason that everyone hates playing there

I'm also not that comfortable on the bigger stages, Dreamland and the like. Primarily for the harder vertical kills but secondly for the horizontal kills. Wall of paining with Pit is A LOT harder than it looks.. (it's a lot harder than Puff in melee). Any tips/tricks to help me be more Armada-esque with fair/arrows strings off stage? I saw Zero extend his string by using the side-b glide, but it's a risky option if you miss

 

[deadjames]

Anyone have any tips for the Wolf MU? It seems pretty tough.

 

[Conti]

Anyone have any tips for the Wolf MU? It seems pretty tough.

Chaingrab or Lose, Land a Dair/Uair Chain or Lose. IMO its the same as fox and falco.

 

[deadjames]

Chaingrab or Lose, Land a Dair/Uair Chain or Lose. IMO its the same as fox and falco.

I disagree, Wolf isn't nearly as good in neutral as Fox and Falco. For example, Wolf can't control space with lasers in the Pit MU like Falco can because most of Pit's moves can eat Wolf's lasers.

 

[Red Rice]

I disagree, Wolf isn't nearly as good in neutral as Fox and Falco. For example, Wolf can't control space with lasers in the Pit MU like Falco can because most of Pit's moves can eat Wolf's lasers.

So in that case, shouldn't Wolf be easier than the other spacies? :|

 

[deadjames]

Yeah, but I still don't think it's in Pit's favor.

 

[Conti]

I dont have enough experiance to give a solid statement honestly, i played one wolf player ever [I believe it was Zucco] and got utterly ***** because i have never seen those combos before -.-

 

[Liquid Brick]

Thanks for the reply. So I have a pretty good general idea of where Pit likes to go - Smashville has been my every CP so far if my opponent doesn't choose to ban it. In the case that they ban Smashville + FD + Battlefield, I guess my choice would be PS2? I'm a huge fan of low ceilings because I love uair/up b kills but if anybody CPed YS1 against me, I would probably just switch to Fox lol. How about Pit on Warioware? I'm never sure if I should ban it because the ceiling is super low and the platforms let me tech chase with dair/uair pretty easily. Hahaha, I love FoD just for the reason that everyone hates playing there

I'm also not that comfortable on the bigger stages, Dreamland and the like. Primarily for the harder vertical kills but secondly for the horizontal kills. Wall of paining with Pit is A LOT harder than it looks.. (it's a lot harder than Puff in melee). Any tips/tricks to help me be more Armada-esque with fair/arrows strings off stage? I saw Zero extend his string by using the side-b glide, but it's a risky option if you miss

PS2 is a decent choice, albeit a very neutral one. Against most characters, if they've banned Battlefield, I gentleman them there. Just be really careful about specific characters who benefit from the stage more than you do, like Marth (low platforms), Samus (side-b missle cancel), and Ike (side-b wall jump, open space for QD). Against Falco and Wolf, it's pretty good for chaingrabs, but there are better choices. I found that Link also does VERY well on this stage, but it's nothing compared to what Fox or Marth gain from this stage. Warioware is actually not very good for Pit, if only because it's really hard to aim your offstage arrows when your opponent is in the blastzone magnifying glass (those side blastzones are REALLY close), and there isn't a whole lot of ground, meaning Pit can run out of space to use. The platforms are awesome though, and I've gotten really early kills with U-Air through the ceiling! Personally, I like this stage a bunch, even though it's not the best Pit stage. In my downtime I use Ganon and Roy alongside Pit, and both of them rock this stage, so I have good movement on the platforms. And hey, shout-outs to TKBreezy's Moisture Pack (Hotline Miami music 2gud)

How to be more Armada-esque? IDK, move to Sweden and adopt EMP? lol, I'd recommend just practicing F-Air strings and learning when you can afford to Arrow in between your F-Airs, and when you HAVE to retreat back to the stage. Just learn the limits of Pit's jumps, and get gud offstage. CPUs don't really DI all too well to avoid it, but it gets the general idea across. Lv 3 Ganon on Battlefield is free

 

[ViewtifulHoe242]

Tit confirmed
aka toon pit

 

[BLUX]

cant seem to find a thread on pit vs. metaknight

 

[deadjames]

Imo Pit vs MK is like what the space animal MUs would be like if Pit actually won the neutral game. Arrows make MK's life hell because dash attack is his only move that can clank with projectiles, you can CG him from like 0-70% iirc, and you can CC most of his normals and aerials until relatively high percents. Make sure not to take any unnecessary risks when recovering because MK can eat your glide and jumps very easily. Also, keep in mind that he has the second longest sword in the game so most of his disjoints will outrange yours.

 

[The_Marth_Madness]

I just found out the hard way that Marth can chaingrab pit. Also ban Lylat Cruise against a Marth. He'll either chaingrab you or have an easy time tech chasing you with the tiny platforms from the chaingrab. Also the platforms give him perfect cover from your arrows when he's edguarding you. Which way do I DI when Marth gets a grab? This totally caught me off guard and I lost the set

 

[deadjames]

DI away from Marth when he throws you, but keep in mind he can mix you up with fthrow or dthrow.

 

[Life]

cant seem to find a thread on pit vs. metaknight

I actually resorted to asking the MK boards about this matchup. (Hilariously, the only person that answered wasn't sure if I was the Pit player or the MK player despite that I said the former. Guess the characters aren't so different?) Was mostly about a few specific problems so I won't quote it but you can go over there if you're really interested.

Also pretty sure there's no chaingrab. DI so good.

 

[deadjames]

There definitely is.

 

[Liquid Brick]

Which throw is giving you problems?

 

[Life]

There definitely is.

OK, tell it to me like I'm stupid, because dthrow never seems to send anyone anywhere I can regrab them past maybe 30% unless they DI wrong.

 

[deadjames]

I meant against MK specifically, Pit can't CG everyone mostly just fast fallers, you also need to jump cancel grab when they DI away.

 

[Life]

I did say anyone.

Not JCGing though, that's probably got something to do with it. Thanks.

 

[Liquid Brick]

How bout that Mario D-Air tho? It eats through U-Smash, U-Tilt, and N-Air. The only thing I can do is do a REALLY early U-Air, cause if you shield, Mario can cross you up with Jabs/D-Smash/etc. At least Fireballs are free. Any suggestions, or nah

 

[Life]

If Mario is using dair to approach, I think I usually fadeaway fair. Worst case, you're in the air already so you can probably jump before he follows up if you get hit.

If he's above you, if you can force a DJ your uair will beat it every time. You can also usmash it sometimes, but it is inconsistent so don't rely on it.

Also, shielding it is fine, just don't expect a punish (I'm not sure what the exact advantage is, frames aren't my strong suit). Probably have to roll out instead. Maybe upB OOS if his spacing allows for it.

 

[Liquid Brick]

After a while of the MU, I've found that Mario's D-Air is pretty free to shield grab. And Up-B OoS is lol.

Anyone else feel that Pit does REALLY well against himself? It's kinda like Fox vs. Fox where Pit just has a super easy time against himself.

 

[habel]

Is it just me, or does pit have a disadvantage against floatys? I was watching some of armada's games on youtube, and it seems like he really struggled against floatys, mostly in comboing and taking a stock at high percents. I can't post links yet, but if you watch Armada vs Esam at sktar, it seems like armada can never get more than 2-3 hits once esam gets above 50%.

If this disadvantage is real, and not just me being bad, what's the way to deal with it?

 

[Redd]

Anyone have tips or tricks vs Diddy? I think just tossing bananas away is the way to go.

 

[Red Rice]

After a while of the MU, I've found that Mario's D-Air is pretty free to shield grab. And Up-B OoS is lol.

Anyone else feel that Pit does REALLY well against himself? It's kinda like Fox vs. Fox where Pit just has a super easy time against himself.

I think Pit vs Pit is really similar to Sheik vs Sheik in melee

 

[5-oNe]

i have alot of mu experience vs wolf. i get to play rat and scythe all the time and also play wolf myself.wolf does alot better than falco does against pit. falcos lasers are pretty standard compared to wolf since he can waveland forward or back and can have 2/3 lasers out at once. also he can combo the crap out of pit better than the other 2 spacies. imo fox does the best,wolf 2nd, and falco 3rd against pit. but you have to play it like a spacie matchup. chain grab and kill. he is probably one of the hardest to punish since he has such great air mobility. and yes pits aerial do clank with wolfs lasers but you are easily punishable doing that.wolf can run right underneath you. and a smart wolf always wants to try to sweetspot with his sideb to recover. all of pits aerials beat out that middle portion of his sideb. NOT the strong flash part, just the middle stream. so you can cut him off right in the middle. and if you do get hit by the middle you dont need to worry as much because it doesnt meteor like falcos sideb and it doesnt lead to a sakurai combo like foxs sideb (so broken.lol.)

 

[Spice]

Anyone have tips or tricks vs Diddy? I think just tossing bananas away is the way to go.

As a Diddy main myself, number one for ANY character against Diddy is to have a good item game. If you are as comfortable with bananas as the Diddy player is, then they are not nearly as effective and any good Diddy player will be wise enough not to throw out a bunch of them. You can also stay in the air a lot so they aren't as useful anyways.

Spacing is really key, if you can rack up damage to about 40-50% you can start comboing the living **** out of Diddy, he is the ultimate combo weight for most characters. Control the neutral with proper spacing and arrows to mess him up. Keep your distance til at least 40% though. After that, grab into down throw into everything ever should set you up well. He is also VERY easy to edgeguard with Pit. Down tilt at the edge of the stage really limits his recovery options to pretty much nothing.

 

[TimeMuffinPhD]

Could I get some tips for the Yoshi matchup? Seems like Pit would do decent against him.

 

[manatlegs]

I wouldn't know much about that match up, but in theory wouldn't arrow spam be the best approach? (even though you don't have to approach :D! ... Anybody?) Most of pits attacks are faster if Yoshi runs in and if Yoshi side b's, most if not all of our sword attacks should go through if timed correctly because of the disjoint. For edgeguarding, intercepting him by air may be a little risky because of that double jump, but if you get that well placed fair the reward is HUGE. Those are my thoughts.

But in terms of match I feel like it's heavily in pit's favor.