- Nov 2, 2013
- 3DS FC
No. Get out of now, or imma get on you villager style. You want your friends and family to endure that?
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Fox is broken, wait for PMBR to nerf him.So the Fox matchup just kills me. As someone who started Melee after PM, I can't use that experience to fight against him. Literally anyone can pick up Fox and beat me. I have absolutely no idea how to deal with his pressure. I just need some general tips or ideas on how to fight him. It's not the offense that's throwing me off, it's my defense. I just can't stop him.
Me and my roommate have been practicing almost daily for about half a year now. I can beat all the characters he is proficient in pretty easily. But he'll pick up Fox (like a day 1 Fox) and I can't do anything. Tonight I played in about a dozen matches vs Fox and I probably won about 2 of them.
I don't know if I should play more offensive or defensive minded or what. Any advice guys?
Not too sure on this. Mewtwo doesn't get combo'ed hard and you need arrows to link combos on him. He Tp'es away a lot, and can F-Air A LOT of Pit Combo's, you don't want to combo him when he's facing you. Killing him is difficult, arrows don't work vs him in neutral (it's a free TP F-Air for him) and when he gets hit, you can't follow it up with U-Smash, and he can TP away out of aerials. It feels you have to read him hard 4 times to kill him, and he can't be edgeguarded, so it's really hard. His tilts/up air heavily out range Pit, and he can juggle Pit efficiently with Up Airs and you can't really do much. I tried Side B'ing away, Di'ing, using attacks but nothing worked vs Mew2KIng's juggles. He did them perfectly, but that's the thing, anything I could of done? I'll link the videos soon to ask you guys for some help.Mewtwo feels even. Whoever gets the momentum can pretty much go home with it. Uair>any option he tries while coming down. Combos fall off around mid % so killing him can be difficult.
Nair is, in general a bad option. Pit's other air moves are almost always better.Hey, good stuff on winning WHOBO! Quick question for you though, I don't recall ever seeing you use nair. Are you just not accustomed to it yet or do you just like the other options better? I always get worried that fair approaches will get cc'd at lower %.
Ty very much! I use it a couple of times, it's more than anything either a gimping move for tethers as they reel up, or when using wings of icarus to do a quick move to get back to the stage.Hey, good stuff on winning WHOBO! Quick question for you though, I don't recall ever seeing you use nair. Are you just not accustomed to it yet or do you just like the other options better? I always get worried that fair approaches will get cc'd at lower %.
If possible, F-Air is always nice or Down Air behind them!Nair is, in general a bad option. Pit's other air moves are almost always better.
It was soooo stressing, lol. I'll make more Pit content soon :DMan, that set between you and Sethlon was amazing. I need to digest everything I saw there and finally decide if I'm going all in with Marth/Pit or going to do the hard thing and play Marth/Pit/Fox. Either way, I want to get good with this character like immediately.
SH Spaced F-Air into D-Tilt to prevent shieldgrabbing-bait tilts so you can CC are great. Also, focus in grabbing him a lot if possible. Grab him instead of getting grabbed by him at kill percents. For kills, arrow into stuff at 90% plus, and never combo him when he's facing you, always from behind, or underneath, or if it's a F-Air string at low percents (Then it's fine). Also, avoid small stages (Wario, both Yoshis)Zero's post on M2 is spot on. I played a M2 in GF yesterday and found comboing to be near impossible beyond about 30%, teleporting seems to come out too quick for strings and his hit stun ends just quickly enough for him to sneak in fairs againt mid % fair chains. Real tricky MU. Also found very little to be safe against his shield - does anyone know of anything frame safe? I mostly look for fair > jab or DD but it netted mixed results...
Zero, a bit off topic, but could I general impression from you as to the best way to fight Mewtwo or approach him? Traditional combos don't seem to work on him very well until he's at enough percent to not Up-B real quick out of hitstun.SH Spaced F-Air into D-Tilt to prevent shieldgrabbing-bait tilts so you can CC are great. Also, focus in grabbing him a lot if possible. Grab him instead of getting grabbed by him at kill percents. For kills, arrow into stuff at 90% plus, and never combo him when he's facing you, always from behind, or underneath, or if it's a F-Air string at low percents (Then it's fine). Also, avoid small stages (Wario, both Yoshis)
Guys, can we get a general overview of Pit vs Wolf and Kirby? Any type of information would be awesome.
IMO: Space F-Airs into D-Tilt/crouch cancelling from a short hop. Other than that, don't full jump/stay in the too long/roll.Zero, a bit off topic, but could I general impression from you as to the best way to fight Mewtwo or approach him? Traditional combos don't seem to work on him very well until he's at enough percent to not Up-B real quick out of hitstun.
General overview:Hey guys xD, I need Matchup help with Sheik, sounds lame, but im from a brawl background, all these Melee Sheiks have me shook, What moves do i DI what directions? Thats my main issue, like percents where i should be crouch cancling vs what moves, what moves should i be DI'ing away. Also best options for punishing her Up+B [not the invisibility, like is it possible to clip her off the ledge? What moves should i not be trying to use, where are her weakpoints other then under her, i feel like i cant win when i challenge from the sides.
Really helpful! You're awesome by the way.General overview:
Sheik is very strong in tri-platform stages, like Battlefield, Dreamland, and FOD. I personally recommend banning all of them and playing in everything else.
Sheik is very weak vs crouch cancelling in PM, so in general, when battling her up front, crouch cancel D-Tilt several times, or F-Tilt. You'll end up winning most of the time.
Her throws: DI down throw and back throw away from her. Always. She down throws at early percents for comboe's, DI away, if you DI up you get chaingrabbed. She backthrows for the kill, and she has a guaranteed tipper Up smash from it, look out for it around 80%. She will dash attack whenever you DI down throw away, so always DI that away too, not up (or you get comboed).
Corner her, but don't play around in the ledge. Her ledge game is lethal, especially from skilled Sheik users. Basically, you corner her, and don't overextend. This means, don't go aggro on her shield, or dash/jump past her position, or play around near the ledge. She has to get past you at some point, that's when you punish her.
She has an invencible dash attack/F-tilt/dash grab/grab from a ledge wavedash, stay out of range completely, don't deal with it. That's how you die in Melee and PM.
When she's jumping and you're cornered, roll past her/into her as she's fairing. Worst case scenario is you get D-Smash to the center of the stage, which is what you want. Don't try to punish F-Air/F-Tilt, you can't unless its right in your grab range.
Don't space full jumps, instead play a more SH Fair spacing game with crouch cancelling and lots of grabs.
Best way to combo her is like this: Down Throw > F-air, regrab, down air > depending on DI, F-Airs off the stage or up air combos. You can also Down air into regrab. At mid percents, always F-Air her off the stage, don't go for Up airs.
To edgeguard her: Grab the ledge as she's approaching it, then simply press forward to get on the ledge, and then punish her. If someone is grabbing the ledge, she's forced to up b land onto the stage or platform, netting you an easy punish. Careful though, after you're past 100 percent of damage, you want to time the edge precisely so when she goes above you, you can jump (press away jump I mean) from the ledge and punish her. If you roll/stand from it at that percent, the extra animation lag doesnt allow you to punish her in time.
Hope you do well!
Yeah:Any tips on the Link v Pit matchup?
I believe Marth beats Pit, especially high level. This match up is kinda like Sheik vs Marth in Melee, it's gonna be a huge pain to get in, but when you do, you must kill him from one grab. Dash Dance a lot, into crouch cancel D-Tilts (Vs landing fairs only, you take the fair, but do a d-tilt into a grab) then do a SH Up air, into strings of up airs, hopefully a f-air to gimp him or wall of pain him. Your goal is to bait attacks in landing, CC and grab from there, or dash dance out space, don't jump around or space aerials, that's how you lose. Shield often too, and grab him before he grabs you. Wary of shielding habits, also, ban Green Hill zone, wario and yoshis brawl. GL!
FH F-airs are a decent opening strat to get a feel on how your opponent plays, that's mostly why I do it,it's not very good, very reactable and punishable if spammed. It's good vs anyone when you don't do it often, it's entirely a mix up. (Well, except vs mewtwo, link and Fox sometimes, since m2 can up tilt, link can boomerang and fox will DD JC grab.Yo
I remember seeing armada go for full hop double fairs in the past as a defensive/wall option. How good is that and who are some characters it would be good against?
Yeah its good vs jumpy chars, just dont spam it or you'll get punished heavily.its okay at best. Zero does it too and i see them both get punished for it a lot. I think they're doing it because pit doesn't fight ground to ground very well, especially at low%, and they're trying to catch the opponent jumping for free damage/knock down. Pit's ultimate weaknesses come from his bad range, and how badly ccing beats him
It's decent vs jumpy characters/players. platform camping foxes, puff, peach, other pits, ness, and DDD are some characters i can see it being decent vs.
Ok, this is what I do: I Dash Dance a lot, and Sh nair through needless into a grab vs campy sheiks.Zero how the **** am I supposed to win against any semi-competent Shiek? She holds down and Pit literally can't safely hit her with anything until like 60~80%, and she outranges him in neutral. Hnnnnng **** her bair/f-tilt. I want to punch babies every time I'm CC f-tilted, or baired when trying to zone.
No problemTo expand on the link match up: Jab and arrows are invaluble tools. Jab, and shoot arrows in situations that link wants to either pull a bomb/throw a boomerang, and jab to interrupt big swings. I would personally ban FD, YS, YS2 vs link players. Link excells at horizontal control.
Thanks for the Shiek advice, Zero. :3c
Also a personal question: Why don't you ever do the forward B ledgegrab? It instantly snaps to the ledge the way yoshi's DJ/Foxe's fox fire does, and can net you some clutch gimps that you couldn't get otherwise. To do it, you run off the stage, instantly fast fall, then instantly glide to the ledge. You'll auto-snap to the ledge ala brawl.
Also i'm not sure if you're aware, but she can fair/nair oos where her grab won't reach. It beats pits spaced fair. Our shiek player does it vs me.
Toon Link has a weaker camping game, so you can do the same but it's just easier overall. His weight is convenient to combo, but his recovery can be a bit crazy sometimes cause of his bomb jumps being more consistent and for more times than Link's, so you gotta shoot an arrow when he's going for it to mess him up.Do you play the TL about the same as the Link one? Also, where do you Di the down throw from TL?
Nerco quote... But yea, the CPU's can be decent for testing this out. I think we can CG Lucas and we have something for TL with regrabs as well.Also, speaking of dthrow cg's, does anyone know the full list of who Pit can cg? I would love to test it out but I don't have anyone to help me properly DI away from throws.
There are Zeldas in SC? Whut?I have a few Zelda players in my state. They aren't amazing, so I don't know how much what I'm about to say, will help. Basically, what you do to win, is DD and space her till she whiffs and punish that. Her nB is intangible, if she does it on the ground. If you sheild it, hold that sheild till her atk is done, then grab. Her moves all have a decent amount of lag if she whiffs, so capitalize off of that. I don't think her bair and fair have a lot of lag tho an they come out on frame 8 er something. I would say, don't let her have those massive stages and you should do fine. Also, when edge guarding her, she can be kinda predictable. She likes to throw dins at the edge and up B into that. She also likes to up B ontop of you, since it has a hitbox. The best thing to do about that, is just up smash. Oh and also remove those dins. I don't remember if you can, but you might be able to nair them. Might, idr .- . If nair can, always do it, you'll get frame advantage.
Awesome, glad to know!@ TSM ZeRo Yeah using all the info you gave me i didnt drop a single game to the sheik player that was giving me trouble beforehand [he beat me everytime ive played him in P:M til now]. Knowledge truely is Power everyone. [he was the only local player giving my Pit trouble, now im 2stocking him consistently at the very least]. I'm about to read this entire thread over and over again so i know all the matchups, because knowing what to do really makes or breaks things.
We should talk about Zelda too if we havent talked about her yet, i feel she is among pits few bad matchups but im not positive.
Also Curious, Does anyone else agree that Sheik/Zelda/Peach/Mario/Marth are hard matchups or am i just imagining things