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Pit+ - A Guide to Brawl's Kid Icarus Angel *WIP* [Lastest Update: June 12]

yummynbeefy

Smash Champion
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Oct 28, 2008
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DEY TUK ER JERBS!!! (Tampa, FL)
lol awesome co18 is playing pit in brawl+ guess what im playing dedede in brawl+

anyways i really dont think hes as bad as i thought earlier playing around with him hes a good pressure character all of his aerials bring the rain of pressure only thing bad that he needs a buff on is his recovery let him grab the ledge before the apex of his up-b
 

Dark Sonic

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 10, 2006
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Orlando Florida
Pit's gimpable up B is simply a new weakness that he's going to have to deal with. Stop asking for recovery buffs and learn to use other methods to recover. He has 3 jumps and a glide (not to mention a pretty beast glide attack), and his up B startup makes his ledgegrab range INSANE. Pit is not the god of recovery, but his recovery is by no means bad.
 

dabridge

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 21, 2008
Messages
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El Paso, Texas
It's a pretty annoying weakness. I do agree that people need to stop complaining about it, since it doesn't make his recovery completely useless (see Diddy), it's just annoying when you're far off the stage and you don't have any of your jumps/glide. It makes using WoI useless since almost any character can gimp him: Pit can't air dodge or attack in this state, and moves at a snail's pace -- very gimpable.

Sagemoon came up with the idea of trying to airdodge in WoI makes him go into freefall, which would let Pit's WoI not completely overpowered, but fixed. I think it's genius, but I don't know if it's ever going to get done. It keeps getting ignored...
 

Blinds

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
53
Location
Illinois
This thread hasn't been posted in in nearly a month... Time to change that.

I propose either Match-up or Combo discussions. Any objections?
 

dabridge

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 21, 2008
Messages
234
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El Paso, Texas
I wouldn't be of any help with Match-up disccussions, since I rarely play competitively (hopefully this will change).

He's pretty even with the rest of the cast though, he can keep the enemy outside his reach with his godly new wingdashing. His new 40% ALR is also a godsend. If he keeps this new wingdashing, he's defenately going to be top tier. No dtilt spike required.

Edit: One character I can help with though, is Ness, since I'm constantly against one. imo it's 55:45 or 60:40 with Pit being in the advantage because of his multiple reflectors, and Pit can use his wingdashing to keep himself out of reach. Even Ness's Fair can't get him (and this outranges Marth's Fsmash).

Any thoughts?
 

Dark Sonic

Smash Hero
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So to get started on matchup discussions, lets talk about Marth.

I think that Pit's wing cancel buff really turns this matchup around. The push of his up B far outranges every one of Marth's moves. And with the new Marth being a more offensive based character (who will be approaching a lot) this really hurts his game because of the shear distance he is pushed. And of course, with the little lag wing canceling has, you can punished Marth's whiffed aerial with a move of your chosing (I like dash canceled jab->jab traps)

Speaking of Marth changes, one of the largest changes that Marth will be recieving is the removal of the invincibility on his up B. This means that he will be more susceptable to Pit's many, many frame traps and have a much harder time with close range combat. In a sense, you could say that the zoning game completely turned around, with wing canceling constantly screwing up Marth's spacing and creating the openings needed to get in, and Pit's close range game locking him down once you're in there.

This isn't to say that Marth doesn't have his strengths. Marth has an absurd combo game now, getting combos that can do 50%+ if he spaces his aerials right (fair sends up now :p). He's also got very fast kill moves (d-smash now kills, f-smash kills EVEN BETTER, and nair kills), though they'll be hard to space against Pit. His bair is now a real problem for Pit with the angle it sends you at (and since it outranges glide attack, and comes out fast, can be combo'd into, ect.). If your not careful it could just plain kill you, but with good DI you should be fine. Marth's ledge game is really, really good against Pit...until you ledgehop wing cancel :p (told you this move is too good). He outranges all of Pit's aerials, he can punish a getup or roll on reaction, and yet a simple push is enough to get onto the stage.

Now for Pit's strengths.

First of all...there's camping. Marth will have to approach you, which is always a nice bonus (especially since you can mess up said approach). You won't be landing many arrows against good players, but it can help you reveal some of their bad habits (defensive players will shield them a lot, aggresive players may double jump over them a lot, ect, ect) for you to punish later so take note.

Second, frame traps. Once Pit manages to get in close he's got a variety of moves just to mess with Marth. You can crossup his shield with a nair and then jab, d-tilt or f-smash behind you to stop an OoS attempt (or grab if you think they'll hold their shield), if they spotdodge the jab or d-tilt then you can hit them again when it's over, if they roll behind you you turn around and do it, and if they roll away you push them closer to the edge with a wing cancel and do it again. Frame traps are fun :p Now against Marth they might not look so good right now (since he's got up B), but once that up B invincibility is gone then he's trying to outspeed Pit...which is something Marth simply can't do. So you'll be getting a lot of pretty much free mixups (jab->grab anyone?) since many opponents will be too afraid to hit you out of them (and rightfully so, Pit is a walking frame trap). It's too bad that Pit lost a lot of his throw options though <_<.

Point 3, edgeguarding. Arrows forcing Marth to go down, mirror shield wrecking anyone who doesn't sweetspot pefectly, up B pushing them out of sweetspot range....Pit's a *****. And even if they do get back on the ledge, Marth is not particularly good at getting back on the stage (you can push him back off with wing canceling funnily enough). With Marth's new fall speed he'll be forced to up B quite a bit. Though it is gonna be buffed in knockback and perhaps get a larger hitbox, so I'll hold my judgement for now (arrows still **** though. That one arrow that finishes a combo really hurts Marth's momentum based recovery)

More later <_<
 

dabridge

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 21, 2008
Messages
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El Paso, Texas
I'm afraid of what would happen if his wingdashing buff was gone, since while it helps a lot, it just seems overpowered (outranges Marth? lol)

I still would say Pit may have a bit of trouble with close combat, since he can always use dancing blade or foward/up tilt to a combo. Wingcancel or even wingdash, while it pushes him away, being up close it won't push him away in time for the move to come out, since they do have a pretty long range. I could be wrong though, since this is just from memory.
 

Dark Sonic

Smash Hero
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You wouldn't really be using wingdashing upclose, you'd just be playing speed games with Marth. And although Marth's OoS game is solid (he's losing that invincible up B), it's not enough to say that he's good at close range. Yeah he could side B, but it's risky (easily punishable on block and little reward by the time we're done with it). Pretty much all of Marth's moves are outsped by Pit's jab though, so no dice there.

And I think wingdashing is here to stay. It does no damage (litterally) and to most is little more than an annoyance (characters that run in with aerials like Sonic or Pikachu couldn't care less). It's the PERFECT antizoning tool imo, but doesn't do much else.

Just know that if it does spark controversy, I'll be fighting to keep it in :p
 

dabridge

Smash Journeyman
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It's good the new wingdashing is staying, it's exactly what Pit needed haha. Guess I better write a part about it in the first post since it has so many uses, well, more than before.
 

Andarel

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 16, 2009
Messages
159
Location
New York City
So, 40% ALR. This is fun.

I tweaked the dtilt spike a little bit to bring it to an acceptable level that at least TheCape liked, which resulted in a slight nerf...but it's still much more useful than its original form. The knockback is weakened (both types) and the hitboxes have been tweaked so the outer third or half of the blade is the downwards hit. Basically, you want to tipper it for those results.

It works well with jab-canceling, and it's safer to counter a recovery with than the earlier version, but I don't feel it's overpowered and TheCape seems to really like it. Changes:
Sweetspot reversed, inner hitboxes changed to sourspot (50 angle 32 BKB 50 KBG, x1.2 size), 3rd hitbox x0.9 size, 4th hitbox (tipper) sweetspot (118 angle 28 BKB 40 KBG, x0.9 size)

Mediafire for that - http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?mw5w5dmnegk

I'm really liking the new nair. Much more useful.

For some reason, wingdashing is weird in the latest build for me. Maybe I just don't have a feel for it yet...hm.

So, tips for Pit? Followups? (SHFF Fair to jab cancel dtilt has served me well, even if it is situational and only works at low percents...)
 

dabridge

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I'll try it out Andarel, sounds like a reasonable change (as in, not a ridiculous spike). Oh, and sorry for not writting the wingdashing guide, I just don't know how to write it. "It outspaces a lot of moves LOL" seems too simple...

For some reason, wingdashing is weird in the latest build for me. Maybe I just don't have a feel for it yet...hm.
The hitbox is just 2x bigger. xD Use it like you normally would, just remember that the wind effect is going to cover a lot more space.
 

Dark Sonic

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The hitbox is just 2x bigger. xD Use it like you normally would, just remember that the wind effect is going to cover a lot more space.
Basically, just remember that the wind effect now completely outranges Marth. Use it to screw up people's spacing and make them miss, making an easy opportunity to get inside their range.

It really helps against characters who would otherwise just zone Pit all day.
 

Andarel

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 16, 2009
Messages
159
Location
New York City
The slight downwards push screws over vertical recoveries. <3 (Pokemon Stadium 2's stupid edges make it an amazing edgeguarding tool btw)

I think not playing Pit for two weeks or so made me lose the timing for the dair. Just gotta practice a bit more, should have it down again soon. My arrow looping also got thrown off =[
 

b2j135

Da Bess Pit
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Feb 3, 2008
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WoI are perfect on 100 buffer...harder on others, been practicing 50 though
 

Valuno

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
89
So, I can finally wingdash consistantly on 50 buffer (wifi lol because i have no other place to play +). ^_^
And I must say it is helping me out quite a bit, it messes with just about everything an opponent will do a bit lol.

Against Marth, I think the matchup is fairly even right now. Marth still outranges pit and has dancing blade, as well as a great combo game. However, Pit disrupts spacing quite easily now with WoI, and Pit's close range game imo is a bit better than Marth's, with the exception of Marth's up b. Pit also has become a fairly good comboer thanks to B+ physics/hitstun, and gimping Marth is not difficult for Pit. Pit can hit Marth with 1 or 2 arrows here and there to disrupt Marth too.

EDIT:
Here are some vids of my Pit. I only recently got into Plus, so I'm getting a lot better, but these vids are still pretty good (for wifi at least).

Singles:

Vs 5ive (Pikachu)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XqyvuOeiyA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH0N6Avb-IQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XX95fVtLbKU

Vs Naucitos (Yoshi)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-34BA2qpVk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5Qqzk5IsPc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoO7ynWHHko
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dQp5e5SKME
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uX2SAGZZkw0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs3ldnGllx4

Doubles:

Valuno (Pit) + Naucitos (Yoshi) Vs FerociBlanka (Ganon) + EvilE (Falcon, Falco)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNHW6Q3TsZg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4kI7SdbI68
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4CcUsJHBGI
 

DaiAndOh

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 15, 2007
Messages
526
Location
Brooklyn, NY
2nd page? Pit needs to get that love.

Is the insane WoI still in the 5.0 RC1? Not sure exactly.

Topic: Edgeguarding. Pit has lots of ways to. Of course raining blue arrowy death, traditional, and stronger with faster falling. Mirror shield, on and off the level, depending (should be getting Marth quite a bit I imagine). Dtilt, space it for the outer part, can be useful, and a finisher after a mirror shield on stage. Glide attack maybe useful once in a while. And wing refreshing, which I think has a lot of potential with the freedom of movement...

For those who don't know, wing refreshing, do a WoI, touch the ground (don't end the move), fly around, and attack out of WoI. You get your jumps and another WoI.
 

dabridge

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 21, 2008
Messages
234
Location
El Paso, Texas
I've been wanting to rewrite this guide with a lot of detail (it's quite outdated actually) but school has been killing most of my time. Anything you guys want to put on it, please say so, don't hold back. I don't want to be the only one writting the new guide.

I'm actually afraid of Pit's new dtilt on 5.0. He never actually needed that spike, and it might direct Pit's metagame to the wrong direction (camping ledges to spike). Pit is already pretty solid without that spike, and I don't know of any bad matchups for him, 'cept maybe Falco.
 

DaiAndOh

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 15, 2007
Messages
526
Location
Brooklyn, NY
I think I'll be getting quite a bit of Falco practice soon.

Pit should shine most once Falco gets off the level, arrow him until he gets below the edge, followed by downb or edgegrab.
 

The Immortal Sir NZ

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 3, 2008
Messages
153
Location
San Diego, CA
I actually really don't like the pikachu matchup, he seems to give my pit problems, even though the players are significantly worse than me in general. i'm not really that experienced with Pit, I switched my main from Ganon to our awesome angel only a month ago, does anybody have a lot of experience with this matchup?
 

dabridge

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 21, 2008
Messages
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El Paso, Texas
Both 5ive and Val say it's a 50:50 matchup, and I'd have to say I have to agree. If your friends don't play very well they're probably just spamming dsmash and tunder, which are somewhat hard to avoid, but not impossible.
 

Valuno

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
89
I actually really don't like the pikachu matchup, he seems to give my pit problems, even though the players are significantly worse than me in general. i'm not really that experienced with Pit, I switched my main from Ganon to our awesome angel only a month ago, does anybody have a lot of experience with this matchup?
Try to outspace Pikachu, Pit can do it, especially if your opponent is worse than you. Against dsmash, if you're not good at SDI'ing(up) out of it, then just DI left or right, because if you mess up SDI'ing out of it, then you're getting thundered. Bair is the way to go when edgeguarding Pikachu, it eats quick attack.

Approaching Pikachu.... it's probably harder than it's worth really, because Pikachu is really small, so it'll be hard to hit Pikachu with fair or dair, Pit's main moves to approach with. Pit waaaay outcamps Pikachu, so just shoot some arrows, the Pikachu will probably approach because Pikachu is fairly good at it. So then, do something like a retreating nair, or nair in place (not forwards, because you'll trade hits most likely, and pit's nair is not good in trades at all). You could try fair, but you'd have to do it fairly early, and it wouldn't follow up into anything guaranteed. Although that's really only one situation... it does come up quite frequently.

I think your main problem is just not being used to using Pit if your opponents really are worse than you, it can take some time to get good control with him.
 

Dark Sonic

Smash Hero
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And now for the alternative for the style of fighting described above :p.

Approaching Pikachu is actually really simple, you just have to go about it a bit differently. Approach with dash canceled jabs and d-tilts, which lets you get close enough to safely use your aerials (like crossup nairs or retreating dairs). Side B is also a surprisingly useful option now since it's safe on block, goes through spotdodges/airdodges, and comes out at a decent speed (reflecting projectiles isn't really important here).
 

The Immortal Sir NZ

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 3, 2008
Messages
153
Location
San Diego, CA
So...

Has Pit gotten any major changes due to 5.0 RC1? (kind of late I know)
I've found that D-tilt is officially awesome now, due to the reduced KB on the tip, and its got so much stun that it sets up for a free fair at later percents.
 

DaiAndOh

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 15, 2007
Messages
526
Location
Brooklyn, NY
So...

Has Pit gotten any major changes due to 5.0 RC1? (kind of late I know)
I've found that D-tilt is officially awesome now, due to the reduced KB on the tip, and its got so much stun that it sets up for a free fair at later percents.
His nair and uair seem to link better together as well.

Dtilt is deadly. edgeguards, and sequences sometimes out of a fair, fthrow, and bthrow! Not true combos always, but sometimes unexpected.
 

Markus Aralius

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 3, 2007
Messages
64
Location
KZoo
hey so has any one played pit at all in the new update? id love to know what changes were made, he is fun as hell in 5, dtilt is the bees knees
 
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