Pillaring - What it is and how to do it...

[MrBitter]

There have been a lot of new Falcos flooding these boards over the past few weeks. I don't claim to be one of the better ones, but I do know what's what when it comes to technical Smash and how to play Falco.

The purpose of this post is two-fold.

First, I'd like to clear up the common misconception surrounding the term "Pillaring".

Secondly, I'd like to offer a few basic pointers on how I think one should work towards mastering this valuable technique.

I troll the Falco boards daily, and every day I can count on seeing the term "Pillaring" misused at least once. People seem to think that Pillaring is a combo involving chained shines and d-airs... This is not the case.

Pillaring is a technique for pressuring an opponent's shield. One of the keys to playing a strong Falco is maintaining a fast pace and steady momentum. When an opponent turtles up, (hides behind his/her shield) Pillaring is the tool a good Falco falls back on. While it DOES involve shines and d-airs, it does not involve juggling your opponent with those shines and d-airs. If the applied pressure results in a juggle, then great. You've pillared into a combo. But the combo its self is not Pillaring.

So what exactly is Pillaring? Pillaring is using a d-air against an opponents shield, l-cancelling, shining, jump cancelling the shine and initiating another short hopped d-air. Rinse and repeat.

If done correctly, your opponent will be so pressured that should he/she try to attack, one of your d-airs/shines will connect, initiating a combo. Should your opponent choose to continue shielding, his/her shield will be broken, resulting in a free attack of your choice.

Light shielding and rolling are the only truly viable means of escape, but since Pillaring is so difficult, waiting for the Falco player to screw up is usually also an acceptable strategy.

A few things to remember when Pillaring...

Your d-air has to hit below the mid-point of your opponents shield. If you input the d-air too early, there will be enough lag between the hit frame and Falco's next attack to sneak in a grab.

Your shine needs to be JC'd as early as possible. Again, being slow here can get you grabbed, or give your opponent enough time to jab you out of your next d-air.

And for you double-shine gurus, Pillaring is an excellent place to apply Falco's flashiest of tricks. If you're a fan of Shiz's videos, you've probably seen him double shine inbetween some of his Pillars.

Ok... I hope that clears this up a little bit. From now on, when I see the term "Pillaring" misused, I'm just going to refer people to this thread. Any additional input, or corrections to my logic will be much appreciated.

 

[Pye]

A good explination overall, except for one thing. I don't think you should be encouraging players to "wait for the Falco to screw up" a pillar. Pillaring is not actually that difficult, and any decent Falco can do it consistantly.

As a Falco player myself, I can tell you that I'l love my opponent to say "don't worry, you'll screw up your pillar eventually. Then I'll grab you".

 

[MrBitter]

You're both right, and wrong, in my opinion.

Yes, Pillaring is easy enough, but Pillaring flawlessly, leaving no window through which your opponent can counter, is difficult.

To argue otherwise would be foolish (Again, in my opinion). If you don't jump out of your shine within 4 frames (and Scotu will correct me on this I'm sure) you're giving your opponent enough time to grab you.

Again, I may be slightly mistaken, but that doesn't make continuous Pillaring any less difficult.

 

[Adi]

Thank god someone finally decided to post this, I'm so tired of seeing all the newer Falco's misuse the term.

 

[darkchrono_09]

Thank you, great post! always confused this with the updown combo

 

[charburner6]

I use falco, and your description of pillaring is correct mostly, but correct me if im wrong- isnt waveshining on an opponents shield also part of pillaring?

 

[pockyD]

waveshines and doubleshines can be a part of modern pillaring

basically as long as it involves shield pressuring and not actually comboing

 

[SCOTU]

You're both right, and wrong, in my opinion.

Yes, Pillaring is easy enough, but Pillaring flawlessly, leaving no window through which your opponent can counter, is difficult.

To argue otherwise would be foolish (Again, in my opinion). If you don't JC your shine within 4 frames (and Scotu will correct me on this I'm sure) you're giving your opponent enough time to grab you.

Again, I may be slightly mistaken, but that doesn't make continuous Pillaring any less difficult.

You promted me to look this up, because i actually didn't know how fast you have to do it. Once Falco's shine hits their shield, it puts 9 frames of lag on their shield, and 4 frames of hitstun on your shine. This leaves you at a 5 frame advantage. Unfortunately, falco's jump takes 6 frames to do. so, once falco has jumped, they have a 1 frame advantage on you. Falco's Dair hits starting on frame 5, so could come out as early them having a 6 frame advantage. So technically, to not be grabbed, you have to Dair, the frame you leave the ground (not hard to do, just hold down and pretend you're going to jc a grab, but hit z one frame later than usual, as if you were jc'ing a grab w/ ganon or zelda). Now, the problem with this is, once you've hit their shield, then you actually have to finish your sh, l cancel and shine to continue. BUT this leaves opening to grab between the dair and the shine (since you dair'ed so early).

Back on topic (and aswering your question/ statement provoking confirmation/ correction), to not be grabbed after the shine, you have to jump out at exactly frame 4 (you can't earlier due to hitstun).

On a side note, Don't confuse ppl between jc'ing a shine and a jc shine. Those are completely different. (a jc shine is how you multishine).

 

[Repryx]

Scotu Is teh son of M2K lolz I Find I get grabbed less when I jump doing the Dair as oppose to waiting to hit their sheild @ a certain frame. But to Mix it up Sometimes I Multishine Into a JC grab( MUWAHAHAHAH KNee knee knee ELBOW Falco is a thai boxer) lolz NO JK Uthrow into Fsmash or uair

(Mutishines Rock!!!)

EDIT: BTW Its also A good trick to WD away then forward and begin the Pillar again OR FOr People Just WAITING for the Sheild grab Shine into the upsmash

 

[SCOTU]

Scotu Is teh son of M2K

That's a pretty funny comment.

http://www.smashboards.com/member.php?u=8177
http://www.smashboards.com/member.php?u=59278

Compare the Date of Births.

 

[Repryx]

Well I knew Of YOu Second lolz In School My "Mom" Is Younger than me and my "daughter" is older than me.

Look @ it this way...You have More Potential...(Am I saving Myself???)

 

[SCOTU]

actually, i have no freakin clue what you're saying.

 

[Repryx]

*Sigh* ALL Hope is Lost Gimme Fox's Gun I'm gonna go soft laser myself in the head 99 times.

Maybe If I rephrase it......
Nah Im in too deep
Scotu YOur Over 9000!!!

Back to the Thread Wavelanding into the Pillar is a GOOD suprise attack But its better when approaching form the underside of a platform. But If you Want to be saved from being grabbed @ all just Dair->shine->Grab Simple N Clean

 

[MrBitter]

You promted me to look this up, because i actually didn't know how fast you have to do it. Once Falco's shine hits their shield, it puts 9 frames of lag on their shield, and 4 frames of hitstun on your shine. This leaves you at a 5 frame advantage. Unfortunately, falco's jump takes 6 frames to do. so, once falco has jumped, they have a 1 frame advantage on you. Falco's Dair hits starting on frame 5, so could come out as early them having a 6 frame advantage. So technically, to not be grabbed, you have to Dair, the frame you leave the ground (not hard to do, just hold down and pretend you're going to jc a grab, but hit z one frame later than usual, as if you were jc'ing a grab w/ ganon or zelda). Now, the problem with this is, once you've hit their shield, then you actually have to finish your sh, l cancel and shine to continue. BUT this leaves opening to grab between the dair and the shine (since you dair'ed so early).

Back on topic (and aswering your question/ statement provoking confirmation/ correction), to not be grabbed after the shine, you have to jump out at exactly frame 4 (you can't earlier due to hitstun).

On a side note, Don't confuse ppl between jc'ing a shine and a jc shine. Those are completely different. (a jc shine is how you multishine).

LoLz, Scotu... We can always count on you to come through with the facts.

Thanks for confirming my thoughts, and the clarification on JC terminology. =)


Edit:

Also, yes waveshines are great for added pressure and fall in line with the definition of pillaring. My first post was more and FYI to all the new Falcos, and wasn't meant to cover every possible variant on Pillaring.

That's what the discussion that follows is for. =)

 

[SCOTU]

suggestion: you could edit your first post to include all follow up information, to make it a more informative thread.

 

[MrBitter]

Bumping this... I've been busy, but plan on going back and updating original post soon.

 

[A-Laon]

I'm glad you posted this, because if you hadn't, I would have, and it would have been far more vulgar and condescending. Thanks for giving this forum some hope.

 

[_kSo_]

Top Notch!

Thank you for posting this. I needed a more in depth explanation of this anyway and this has helped me a lot. thank you good sir

 

[teeman92]

...what did he say about a roman pillar?

 

[purekorea]

I think I remember reading somewhere you can pillar with the fair with the two hits and that its safer due to the multiple hits(first hit as you rise, second hit as you fall). Was the original poster mistaken or is it a viable technique?

 

[captainlukey]

imo pillaring only exists in high level compition anyway... and although this is not technically correct pillaring should be described as pillaring only when pressure is truly being aplied eg dair, shine, wavedash, shine, dair, shine... all in close proximity...
a single dair shine should not be described as pillaring and ive seen many noobs talk about their awesome pillaring techniques and you watch the vids and its like one single dair to shine that almost puts pressure on the opponent...
ok so its hard to say wat im trying to say and its not making much sense... but when a good player pillars they really pillar not just dair shine into combo... and even tho a single dair shine can be described as pillaring in certain situations i dont think it even should be... i mean watch shiz and forwards vids.... thats really pillaring
and i actually have a question... wat is the best form of keeping pressure when the opponent waveshields away from your dair just in time..? ive been wavedashing forward and into the dair again but ive actually seen a vid where the falco comes for a dair and marth sheild dashes back (and you know how long his wavedash can be) and then the falco l cancels the dair and wavedashes straight into a shine on the shield and then into the pillar... now my question is... in this situation will the falco always be able to wavedash straight into the shine and have it hit... or if marths wavedash is perfect will he be out of range when falco goes for the waveshine? so i spose this is more a question of wd distance... oh well please answer and any mistakes ive made feel free to correct me... im sure scotu will but that doesnt matter...

 

[captainlukey]

I think I remember reading somewhere you can pillar with the fair with the two hits and that its safer due to the multiple hits(first hit as you rise, second hit as you fall). Was the original poster mistaken or is it a viable technique?

sorry for double post...
was this one of my threads that you read that?
anyhoo yeah i find it works well but only at low percents other wise the second hit (and sometimes the first at higher %s) will knock the opponant away, i actually use this more than the traditional pillar especially in the begining game and its kinda a mindgame when you start doin the dair.... cause lets face it when fighting a falco your more likely to see the dair than the fair.... if you want to see it in action and not just read it go into multiplayer and select falco as your player and marth as the level 1 cpu... put him up to about 35% roughly now do a shffld fair, into a shffled nair chase him and do a shffled fair again followed by a down tilt... but if your not actually that good at comboing yet do a shffled fair into downtilt...
and i should note that if you screw up with fair eg hit non sweetspotted or miss the first or second hit its useless for combos... so i think thats why the dair is the commonly used one cause you can pretty much always combo with it even if it is just with a fsmash... but just mix it up with this and trust me you wont be disapointed...

 

[purekorea]

umm I doubt it I read it last year 2006 and you register 2007... but I feel as though you are thinking of "pillar" combos, not shield pressure which is what the thread describes.

I meant shine > fair on someones shield being safer than dair not as a combo tool.

Too be specific I remember someone saying that doing an fair on someones shield allows an instant hit out of shield and the second hit covers up the airtime until you can get another shine out preventing shield grabbing.

 

[Dojo]

i <3 scotu

haha nice explanation
i was one of the newcomers that needed to get slapped.
i was told the term wrongly back then.
my friend got me playing falco sometime around january 07
so yea thanks

 

[Lorcl678]

Can someone make/find a video showing the proper way to pillar? I'm not too familiar with the frames.

 

[burningherbs]

I was wondering why people don't use the nair to pillar. After all, the nair comes out 1 frame faster than the dair, and lags only 7 frames compared to the dair's 9 frames. The shine takes 1 frame to come out, so the shine will come out on the 8th frame after landing. This only lets Peach and IC to grab if done perfectly.

Please correct me if anything I said is wrong. Frame data comes from SuperDoodleMan's website.

 

[GamerGuitarist7]

Ok, I'm reviving this thread so we can figure this out becuase Phanna has posted a great bit of frama data for basically every move for falco (hitlag AND shield stun.)

So, we can mathmatically (sorta) figure out EXACTLY how to pillar, your windows for doing which moves to not get grabbed, etc.

http://smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=2690107&postcount=22


Do yeah, i would do it but i don't really know how to. Anyone help? Coolness.

(i know people have already talked about this a little, like Scotu, but now we have exact data.)

 

[Winston]

So technically, to not be grabbed, you have to Dair, the frame you leave the ground (...). Now, the problem with this is, once you've hit their shield, then you actually have to finish your sh, l cancel and shine to continue. BUT this leaves opening to grab between the dair and the shine (since you dair'ed so early).

What's confusing me about this explanation is, if falco is actually able to be grabbed during the bread and butter shine dair shield pressuring, then how come it doesn't happen more often in competitive play?

 

[SCOTU]

I'ma gonna review some data again when i get home, and i'll give even better frame explanations on different ways to pillar.

@Gustav Wind: While possible, can you do it? It's not easy. Like i said. I'm going to re-revieew the frame data after learning new things, and make sure everything works, and describe different ways to pillar to avoid grabbing/ escaping. (I've done this for fox in hella detail, which i'm not going to get into here, but I'll get the guts of it).

Scratch that, i'm doing it tomorrow.

 

[knightpraetor]

so basically pillaring on teh first frame leaving the ground will leave no room for a shieldgrab after the shine, but then will probably leave enough frames for a shieldgrab after the aerial...but the problem is the # of frames is just barely enough for a grab so no one can really time it..especially since they ahve to guess when the dair is going to come out....i'm going to practice trying it but it's certainly hard to do:\ maybe against falco's that are bad at pillaring though

 

[Kye L]

Thanks for clearing that up, TC. >_> I had been taught that Pillaring was basically that cool-looking combo, and I figured that was true because...well, it works, and it looks cool. X)

 

[Oskurito]

but since Pillaring is so difficult, waiting for the Falco player to screw up is usually also an acceptable strategy.

LOL pillaring is ****ing easy!

 

[Giggidax]

i actually find my self dairing right when i shorthop on the way up
but when i continue the pillaring i sometimes unconciously change the timing of the dair

so my pillaring is very unpredictable, but with this strategy the opponent can easily buffer a roll, which is basically the only way out of it since he cant shield grab with the changing frame times being so unpredictable.

 

[Adi]

LOL pillaring is ****ing easy!

Yeah doing it may be easy, but doing it frame perfectly is a different story. Unless you're absolutely perfect with the timing of your aerials a well timed grab can disrupt a pillar.

 

[B0mbe1c]

Yes, all about timing. But, it is very easy.

 

[mathos]

Yep pillaring is easy thats why Drephen's shieldgrabs all falcos all over the world.

 

[SCOTU]

As promised, frame data on Pillaring:

Green = Their Shield is in stun
Red = Their Shield is not in stun

Early Pillar (dair asap out of shine):

1 Shine, Hitlag
2 Hitlag
3 Hitlag
4 Hitlag
5 Hitlag
6
7
8 Start Jump
9
10
11
12
13 Airborne (start Dair)
14
15
16
17 Dair Hits, Hitlag
18 Hitlag
19 Hitlag
20 Hitlag
21 Hitlag
22 Hitlag
23 Hitlag
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32 Fast Fall
33
34
35
36 Land, LC lag
37 LC lag
38 LC lag
39 LC lag
40 LC lag
41 LC lag
42 LC lag
43 LC lag
44 LC lag
45 Shine again

Ideal Pillar (Typical Pillar):

1 Shine, Hitlag
2 Hitlag
3 Hitlag
4 Hitlag
5 Hitlag
6
7
8 Start Jump
9
10
11
12
13 Airborne
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 Start Dair
22
23
24
25
26 Dair Hits, HitLag, Fast Fall
27 Hitlag
28 Hitlag
29 Hitlag
30 Hitlag
31 Hitlag
32 Hitlag
33
34
35
36 Land- LC lag
37 LC lag
38 LC lag
39 LC lag
40 LC lag
41 LC lag
42 LC lag
43 LC lag
44 LC lag
45 Shine again

Late Dair (Dair hits right before landing)

1 Shine, Hitlag
2 Hitlag
3 Hitlag
4 Hitlag
5 Hitlag
6
7
8 Start Jump
9
10
11
12
13 Airborne
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25 Start Dair
26 Fast Fall
27
28
29 Dair Hits, Hitlag
30 Hitlag
31 Hitlag
32 Hitlag
33 Hitlag
34 Hitlag
35 Hitlag
36 Land, LC lag
37 LC lag
38 LC lag
39 LC lag
40 LC lag
41 LC lag
42 LC lag
43 LC lag
44 LC lag
45 Shine Again


I hope this clarifies everything for everyone, but i have a feeling it's going to generate more questions than answers. This just goes to show, The pillar is not as safe as you think.

Edit: this is the kind of **** you should quote in the first post.

 

[mathos]

Pillar sucks. It only confuses people. But yet a technique you should learn.

But seriously someone should sticky this.

 

[SCOTU]

the technique blows. It's only good if the other person isn't thinking at all.

 

[SCOTU]

For ****s and Giggles

Multishining


1 Shine, Hitlag
2 Hitlag
3 Hitlag
4 Hitlag
5 Hitlag
6
7
8 Start Jump
9
10
11
12
13 Airborne, shine, Hitlag
14 Hitlag
15 Hitlag
16 Hitlag
17 Hitlag
18
19
20 Land, Start Jump for repeat
21
22
23
24
25 Airborne, Shine, Hitlag

Far more effective than pillaring, but still not escapable.