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Pikachu Social Thread

Paradoxium

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I need help with the sonic match up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=cZ4OMrkhezQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUjfObW27Ik&feature=player_detailpage

Funny thing though I ended up going Marth and actually beating him, also beat him with Samus. But for some reason I can't really beat him with Pikachu. This match up is definitely an uphill battle, but I think I could do it. Someone help me point out the crucial mistakes in my game play, and what he was punishing.

(Also, this is over wifi. Things like missed ledge sweetspots, tech chases, and dropped combos can be attributed to this.)
 
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Choice Scarf

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Um, so I'll give it a shot but I have no idea what I'm saying as I'm just starting to see these things in matches.

It feels like a lot of little things that just add up over time. You get occasional hits here and there but you can't punish big off of most of them and the game goes back to neutral pretty quickly. You often try to bait out his approach using F-smash but he's able to fly across the stage sometimes and punish you for it. And of course there's a couple of tech errors during recovery that get capitalized on here and there.

In this MU Sonic out-speeds us (inb4 "You're too slow") and his burst movement and disjoint combination is just something that he does better than us. So it might be to the benefit to play against type and play defensively, control center stage, and let him come to you. Focus more on reacting to his approaches instead of throwing out F-smashes reading his approach, and just bait with dash-dances and d-tilts, wait for him to hit your shield, OoS grab or U-smash if he's close enough. If he spaces well after that, try f-tilt. Actually, just use f-tilt more, in situations where f-smash/d-smash may not be safe enough. If you're going to only do small hits, might as well make them quicker safer tilts that you can direct towards the edges. The damage doesn't have to be big right off the bat, just enough to keep him off of you. Play patiently and it will get into U-smash kill range faster than you think.

You need to make your recovery safer and aim for the ledge sweetspot more, since he's pretty good at taking advantage otherwise. That's more of a precision thing that all Pikachus just have to do though so...yeah. I think this also applies to neutral in general. I see you full-hopping quite a bit, and sometimes you get hit because of it, so try to keep to the ground a bit more? I think Pika needs to be faster in the air if he's going to threaten from that position, so it doesn't work for Sonic.

Edgeguarding is probably a must in this MU, I can't really help you there except maybe cover more space with U-air and f-tilt near the ledge instead of going out and risking a reversal since his recovery is threatening and his Up B is really fast. Then once you get comfortable with his recovery pattern , that's when you go out to interrupt it between a B burst and an Up B or whatever he's actually doing. I think B-reverse thunder might also help against his homing attack, so maybe time that well to force him to second guess just using that willy-nilly.

Finally, you have to land bigger punishes if you're going to get momentum. I highly believe this is where QAC comes in as a tool to reposition yourself back into near point blank range. If it's too tech heavy then perhaps just speed up your SHFFL game as fast as you can take it, especially acting out of a SHFFL as quickly as possible.

So I guess the big take away is go even faster focusing on using moves you can act out of quickly and just rely on that and defensive play to let the damage rack up until he can't trade favorably anymore. I feel like a lot of Sonic's pressure is something Pika can actually deal with - he can't rely wallop your shield. Buffering in shield should help too. Sorry I can't give better advice.
 
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Comet7

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yeah the sonic MU is basically all about positioning since we can't do much to him. just to add onto what choice scarf said, i'm fairly sure that nair can go through (most of?) sonic's approaches, so that's something to consider. fyi marth vs sonic is bad for sonic since he can just abuse his disjoint and marth stuff to keep sonic out and kill him faster, so i suppose it makes sense that you won with him.

can pika still instant wall jump (aka daruki jump) in 3.5? i remember seeing axe do it at green hill zone in 3.02, but i can't seem to get it to work. i can do it with pichu consistently in melee, so is it just harder with pika in PM?
 
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Choice Scarf

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Oh hey cool! Yeah totally digging all of the tricks you could have done and could still do. I've been trying a bunch of stuff from and I think the only thing I've really got down consistently is where on the stage you put yourself so that you can double horizontal QA -> ledge grab. What techniques/shenanigans do you recommend mastering first?
 

Defile

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Oh hey cool! Yeah totally digging all of the tricks you could have done and could still do. I've been trying a bunch of stuff from and I think the only thing I've really got down consistently is where on the stage you put yourself so that you can double horizontal QA -> ledge grab. What techniques/shenanigans do you recommend mastering first?
I guess a good place to start would be learning to consistently QAC into n-air, since that's relatively easy to do and can be used in plenty of situations. If you L-cancel the n-air, you could follow up with an up-smash. That's actually a guaranteed combo against many characters at low percents. QAC into b-air is even more powerful, but requires precise spacing because of the hitboxes.

Wavedashing out of QAC is also useful. It's great for mind games like QAC-ing in one direction, wavedashing in the opposite direction, and then throwing out a forward smash. Quick attacking onto a platform and then wavelanding off of it is useful, too.
 

hype machine

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While I was practicing my quick attacks I quick attacked off the stage and Messed up on grabing the ledge instead I fast falled to the blast zone at least twice the speed. I've seen axe do this in melee but with platforms instead. Tried to repeat the inputs to do it again but couldn't figure out what i did. Was wondering if anybody knows how to do this
 
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Scop_

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Hello Pika mains! Fairly new PM player here. I'm still not set on my main yet, and I have to say the "Quick attack auto cancel" thread has managed to intrigue me. I think this unique character might see some more love if this board had a specific ATs thread/sticky. Now I know it takes time and effort to compile such information into a readable format, so I'm not asking anybody to do it-- just sharing my opinion.
As for me, I will keep being interested in the character, at least for a while, and who knows, I just might main Pika if he is as fun as I predicted.
 

Choice Scarf

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So trying to inject a bit more life into this thread here:

@ Comet7 Comet7 lol delayed response about the daruki jump thing, but I want to say Pika can still do this. I feel like I've done this by accident a couple of times at least - it's when Pika would jump from the ledge facing the opposite direction right?

@ hype machine hype machine , I think this edge cancel stuff, where if you collide very close to the ledge you will cancel your move and let you fall from that edge. This works on stage ledges and platform edges, so what most likely happened is that you edge canceled QA and had your control stick down that made you fast fall immediately.

Hi @ Scop_ Scop_ ! Glad you're interested! Pika is a tricky character to master just because he needs pretty fast fingers and good spatial awareness by the player, but he's pretty fun offstage and just when running around and stuff. Unique ATs are only really QA and QAC shenanigans, as well as Uair hitboxes and B-reserve techs on jolt and thunder - it's not super extensive like say Squirtle's where it need it's own page. It would probably be better if we can get more 3.5 videos of Pika play on these boards, so if anyone is skilled enough to make it onto bracket streams or is rich enough to capture footage then that would help out a lot.
 

Paradoxium

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I need help with the sonic match up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=cZ4OMrkhezQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUjfObW27Ik&feature=player_detailpage

Funny thing though I ended up going Marth and actually beating him, also beat him with Samus. But for some reason I can't really beat him with Pikachu. This match up is definitely an uphill battle, but I think I could do it. Someone help me point out the crucial mistakes in my game play, and what he was punishing.

(Also, this is over wifi. Things like missed ledge sweetspots, tech chases, and dropped combos can be attributed to this.)
Quick update, I ended up playing this guy again and can now say that I have a pretty good grip on the match up

I really only made 2 adjustments, the first one was that I switch up my neutral game. In the neutral I just tried to slowly gain ground until he had no room to run. I used thunder jolts very sparingly, and I was constantly moving.

And the second adjustment I made was when he was in the corner I went super aggro and just started nair spamming him, apparently sonic cant deal with Pikachu's cross up pressure.

so yea 2 things to take away from this

1) Don't approach from far away (Unlike most characters Sonic can easily dash away and punish)
2) Be very aggressive (Take the stage control he offers, and apply a lot of pressure)
 

hype machine

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I don't know if you guys knew but I found out while you're jabbing with pikachu you can also press z to jab. So instead of trying to press A really fast you can press A and Z to get the fastest jab rate ( just try not to overlap your inputs). This is good if you do a fair/nair near the ledge and trap them with a series of jabs. To prevent any confusion you don't need to change the button layout, you can do this on default controls.
 
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ilikcereal101

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Hey completey new to pikachu sadly found out jiggs is garbage in this game and decided to pick up this fragile speedster I couldn't find any guides, could u guys point me in the right direction? Thanks :)
(Note since newbie not to fast with the hands yet but I think with pratoce I can)
 
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hype machine

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Hey completey new to pikachu sadly found out jiggs is garbage in this game and decided to pick up this fragile speedster I couldn't find any guides, could u guys point me in the right direction? Thanks :)
(Note since newbie not to fast with the hands yet but I think with pratoce I can)
There aren't any guides for project m pikachu but there is a guide in the melee section and 3.5 pikachu is almost identical to melee pikachu. There are also no videos of top level pikachus on YouTube for 3.5 pikachu but it's pretty much the same problem for any other characters. I suggest watching axe off melee and studying his gameplay, also doing Shffls with pikachu feels more like a rhythm to me as soon as you fast fall you immediately l cancel. Pikachu is good in this game he may be frustrating at first but once you learn how to control him he's a lot of fun. Oh and doing dair/nair into tail spike off the ledge is super satisfying.
 
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Choice Scarf

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If you are just starting it's better to first focus on just Quick Attack itself and making sure it sends you in the direction you want to go. Basically practice sweetspotting the ledge from anywhere offstage (and onstage too if you can!).

Then QAC is Quick Attacking into the ground, then timing a button press at the point of contact. it's best to begin with jumping first, and then moving on to attacks, specials, and wavelands. The timing is the same though so all you need to do is change which button to press.
 

PandaPanda Senketsu

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I think I'm gonna be the first to say that I think QaC is WWWWAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYY overrated. Yes it is amazing, but it isn't the only tech skill Pikachu has.


I think more people should open their eyes to the world of sh early uair and rar shffls. THE POSSIBILITIES ARE ENDLESS.

Rar sh double uair perfectly spaced out of shield grab range can give A LOT of characters a run for their money. But also things like full hop rar uair can sweep up opponents who are staying airborne and combo directly into bair! Cross up full hop uair is good safe shield pressure, but you can condition your opponents into trying to punish the full hop and mix it up with a cross up into sh double uair or sh uair > nair. Rar fair into grab bthrow or rar fair into uair, so many possibilities!

Pikachu's shield pressure is SUPER underdeveloped, and I think it will be the future of his meta game, along with RAR mix ups, and edge cancel game.
 

ilikcereal101

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wow awesome guys thanks for they tech :) don't know how much I can practice doe, got lax season starting put i will try
 
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hype machine

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Anyone know any secondaries that punish the **** out of floaties because I hate playing aginst floaties with pikachu
I'm talking about these characters mewtwo, luigi, peach, jiggly puff, kirby, ice climbers, and samus
 
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PandaPanda Senketsu

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Anyone know any secondaries that punish the **** out of floaties because I hate playing aginst floaties with pikachu
I'm talking about these characters mewtwo, luigi, peach, jiggly puff, kirby, ice climbers, and samus
what about these characters is giving your trouble, because they all play so differently I don't think they can be lumped into the same category.
 

hype machine

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what about these characters is giving your trouble, because they all play so differently I don't think they can be lumped into the same category.
I don't have trouble with them I just think they are so boring to play against because I have trouble combining into them. Or only a few combos work against them
 

hype machine

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Try using fair to keep them close and the tail spike on uair to bring them back down.
I'm well aware of that, it's just the pikachu MU against floaties takes too long and I'm a hyper offensive player that want to keep my momentum going but it's often stopped when I go against floaties. I'm not dropping pikachu I think it's fun to play against fast fallers and semi floaties but playing against floaties is just so boring with pikachu and most of them have really good recoveries as well. Also a lot of the time if i try to tail spike it send them straight up and you can't combo out of it
 
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PandaPanda Senketsu

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Lol sorry sometimes I forget I can just up smash thunder to get really early kills, I don't know why I jumped the gun like that
Also on the floaties you can uair into thunder for kills as well. Nair upsmash works really well on mewtwo and sopo. The only floaty that I think gives pikachu a lot of trouble is Jiggs, and maybe Samus. I think the peach match up is really fun, but that's probably because my brother plays peach lol.

Also, for a long time I had a pocket Toon Link to deal with floaty characters, he spanks every single one (cept zelda)
 

hype machine

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Can the pmdt please change pikachus jab attack SFX back into melee's SFX. The way jab attack sounds in melee is so satisfying to hear.
 

PandaPanda Senketsu

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Anyone have any advice on the sheik match up?

I'm not talking about your typical sheik mains that are all over the place (I deal with them just fine), I'm talking about the really good sheik mains. The ones who know how to constantly wall, cover themselves, edge guard, tech chase, all of that sheik stuff. I need help escaping the pressure. If i don't have center stage I just get walled out so hard, this guy i was playing was just really good at covering all options.
 

hype machine

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Anyone have any advice on the sheik match up?

I'm not talking about your typical sheik mains that are all over the place (I deal with them just fine), I'm talking about the really good sheik mains. The ones who know how to constantly wall, cover themselves, edge guard, tech chase, all of that sheik stuff. I need help escaping the pressure. If i don't have center stage I just get walled out so hard, this guy i was playing was just really good at covering all options.
I heard in 3.5 project m was meleefied so I'm guessing they made pm shiek as good as melee shiek and pm pikachu as bad as melee pikachu. If this is true you're playing against a 80-20 match up and should use a secondary.
 

Choice Scarf

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Switching to other characters isn't really MU advice for Pika though. :/ And Pika is better than his melee version, while Sheik doesn't have chaingrabs anymore, so it's not that lopsided.

I'm not good enough to have played high level Sheiks, so sorry I can't help out here @ PandaPanda Senketsu PandaPanda Senketsu . I can only suggest Uair or Nair to try to break out of combos, but that's admittedly weak advice
 

hype machine

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Whenever someone try's to wall me I ussally use thunder jolt to approach, even if it doesn't hit, it ussally creates openings. Yea I've never played agianst a good shiek player but that's what I would do.
Idk if this will help but here you go.
http://youtu.be/GoNGtLYHpJw
 

Psyant

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My best friends in the Sheik matchup have generally been Dtilt and Grab.

CC Dtilt is great against her because, like Pikachu, a lot of her moves are easily CC'able at low %s. You can use as a decently safe approach if she's not really attacking. You'll want to try and close in on her and take center stage, then keep advancing until she's at the ledge and has nowhere to go. If she's more aggressive, you'll want to try and bait stuff out of her; typically dash attack or boost grab. Keep note of the rough range of them and weave in and out of it. If she needles a lot you can try some FH jolts; they don't really win in the long term but it can be enough to get them to stop using needles so much.

Combo game is where I think this MU is decided, though. Both characters kind of destroy each other here and stocks are taken quickly. Unlike Melee, Sheik can't get guaranteed dthrow chaingrabs on Pikachu, but her combos from it still hurt. However on the reverse side she's relatively fastfalling which is great for Pikachu. Of special note is that YOUR down throw can now chaingrab HER (hah, sweet revenge) if she DIs incorrectly. Besides a potential regrab, Dthrow is great against her throughout the whole game and you can easily kill her off a dthrow > bair at kill %s. She's also easy to combo with the usual Pika stuff (Nair, Usmash, Uair).

She's pretty easy to edgeguard too so you have another advantage there. Just grab the ledge and react to what she does. If she lands on stage you can just ledge stand up/wavedash and hit her with anything including a free Usmash at kill %s. She can't edgeguard you nearly as reliably (though she is more of a threat to your recovery than most) so make your edgeguards count.

To sum up, against Sheik I think you want to focus on your punish game and edgeguarding. It's possible to basically 0-death her and she really can't do the same to us if you DI her stuff correctly. She does have an advantage in the neutral, but not to an overwhelming degree imo. It mostly comes down to who maneuvers and baits stuff out better. Having great movement and spacing is really important to do well against her in the neutral. It's definitely a far more even and doable matchup than in Melee.
 
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PandaPanda Senketsu

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ALSO PIKACHU CAN DO THE MARTH KILLER NOW

but since Marth's sweetspot is easier in pm he might still be able to sweetspot while avoiding it. But if it works like it does in melee then there is no hope for Marth to recover.
 
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