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Pikachu Social Thread
- Thread starter Muhti
- Start date
batistabus
Smash Journeyman
I would very much like for the sound effect on Pikachu's nair to be changed.
That is all.
That is all.
cannedbread
Smash Lord
^^^^^
if it sounded like falco's whiffed dair that would be fine
i like the upair sound effect though
if it sounded like falco's whiffed dair that would be fine
i like the upair sound effect though
cannedbread
Smash Lord
give it some time it's only been like this for a couple of days
pikachu is pretty good though
pikachu is pretty good though
standardtoaster
Tubacabra
if you guys could look through some of the sound effects in sound test for a better one on nair, that'd help 
cannedbread
Smash Lord
i don't have a wii on me right now but like falco's whiffed dair sound (in p:m that is) fits nicely i suppose
that's sort of how it sounds in melee anyways
that's sort of how it sounds in melee anyways
standardtoaster
Tubacabra
well, if you can find sfx that are either in fighter common or pikachu, we can use those. don't forget we can play two sfx at the same time to sorta mix em together
cannedbread
Smash Lord
i would be able to find those things in brawlbox right? i might take some time to mess around with it since i can't play p:m
standardtoaster
Tubacabra
nah, you gotta look at it in pm
cannedbread
Smash Lord
oy i guess i'm out of luck then, thanks for the help toaster
cannedbread
Smash Lord
esam got those qac tricksies though
but axe axe though
i can't decide
but axe axe though
i can't decide
Sapphire Dragon
Smash Master
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Aww, I'm late ; ;
Oh well. Kind of wanted this to be the first post so it could be expanded on but I'm a scrub, so this will have to do.
Here's an archive of the most helpful and detailed posts from the Pika social thread on Smashmods. Enjoy!
Pikachu General Discussion
Formerly QAC - Utility, Discoveries, and General Discussion
Zappo: I know you can't JC grab out of a QAC, because it's a second jump. However, you can wavedash out of it with a little practice. QAC nair looks pretty **** too, especially for followups off a platform.
Magus: You can't JC grab, but you can autocancel f/b-air into grab or anything else you want (the aerial doesn't hit but it makes you cancel into empty landing instead of special landing). It's faster than waveland grabbing.
TheDevicer: I know I've previously said otherwise, but blatantly QACing into people has become somewhat of a viable option for a few reasons.
1. You generally use it to space and get around people and not as a mechanism to put you directly where your opponent stands. This makes QACing into your opponent unexpected.
2. Increased hit-stun leaves more leeway for cooldown.
3. Something I don't expect to be too useful but shattered my expectations is the ability to wave-land out of Quick Attack. QAC into someone>wave-land so you overlap or your opponent is directly behind you>U-tilt>U-air chain
This string relies on not using it too much because QAC remains easy to intercept. Characters with large disjointed hitboxes perform this especially easily. This is a great way to set up for tail spikes and other shenanigans.
Spot-dodge to D-smash remains an effective "panic button". I would avoid using if possible because of how easy the move is to SDI. Nonetheless, it's a great way to force opponents off your back.
Reversing thunder is a great way to perform the move offstage and make it back safely. The conservation of momentum from jumps makes this particularly useful. Try on enemies recovering high.
On weak hits, especially at low percents, DI away and high. This is especially useful against characters that lack the ability to extend far beyond the ledge. QA remains a stellar recovery but requires some serious mixups. Don’t fret about aiming to sweetspot the ledge even when someone is hanging on it. Most of the time, they’ll anticipate you to extend onto the stage.
His U-smash remains amazing. Run at someone and about a character length away from the target, slam on the C-stick for some guaranteed fun. Nonetheless, never forget about the F-smash. It’s a great finisher simply because of how little use it gets. I also find it useful to extend the sweetspot slightly away and above the ledge to shut down recoveries. Wavelanding into this is hella flashy and satisfying.
Something that I love about Pika is that the landing lag of quick attacking into the stage has been decreased. In Melee, that lasted about a good second. This makes failing to QAC less punishable.
One N64 trick that I've picked up from Isai's Rat is the one hit fAir. It pretty much *****. Put's you into hit-stun while you L-cancel and proceed to grab/U-smash/U-tilt or whatever else meets your fancy. Also, the single best aerial to do out of QAC if you're not sure what to do is uAir.
jalued: On another note, my mate threw TL's bomb at me from above, and it hit my fair hitbox and exploded without damaging me. Fair > bombs
drpepper111: Does up air have the same hitboxes as Melee?
smk: Uair is the same as Melee, yes. It just does more damage, 7% iirc.
ajajayjay: Another use for quick attack cancelling - it can act as a jab reset (just a reset?).
Start off low and quick attack at an angle towards the ground and you basically slide the full length of quick attack across the ground (as opposed to melee in which the quick attack stops upon contact with the ground). This resets anyone lying on the ground.
Go parallel to the stage and then at an angle to the ground and you can jab reset someone 2/3 of the way across FD.
I've had the best luck wavelanding out of it and punishing appropriately (reset -> grab on fast fallers, reset -> up-smashing at high percents
RoanYagyu: Since its possible to RAR during double jumps, is it sometimes quicker to RAR doublejump>waveland to edgehog at certain distances from the ledge after a QAC, or to just QA again offstage and then back to the ledge?
TheDevicer: I'm unsure if DJ RAR is possible, but if so, it would indeed be faster. There's just one problem. Pika's WD isn't very long in the first place, so the QA would have to land on the lip itself to make the edgehog possible. It just seems to me that this would be very situational and that better options would exist.
The DJ RAR shouldn't be possible. After all, the whole premise is to dash, turn, jump, and direct your momentum towards the direction you originally faced. The DJ carries the momentum but can't turn, right?
RoanYagyu: I'll test this when I get home (currently in class) , but im pretty sure this is possible, another idea that came to mind with that whole thing is you could use it to quickly lead into bair strings for a gimp in certain situations
TheDevicer: bAir strings? bAir doesn't combo into itself. Are you sure you didn't mean uAir? On a side note, bAir out of QAC is great for sending people offstage and setup gimps.
Roan Yagyu: Yes I know it doesn't. This is if they are forced to recover low where they would have very little options to get around being Bair'd over and over.
TheDevicer: Sorry if I sounded condescending. I just thought you made a typo. I know pika had a QAC infinite with footstools in SSBB but I believe that involved the same principle as Falco's laser lock and thus won't carry over.
What's your thought's on U-tilt? I find it pops up opponents just right for juggles and is overall a fantastic combo started that can be wavelanded into from QAC. I think it has incredible utility when combined with uAirs. Also, I'm having a bit of trouble not tail spiking opponents. It's like I'm too used to it so I can't juggle using uAir.
RoanYagyu: You didn't sound condescending, don't worry about it. I know that the QAC lock is gone, but all the moves in brawl that locked seems to cause jab reset (or would it just be reset since its not from a jab?) in Project M. Meaning itll force a stand up. So I was wondering if there would be Footstool setups to QAC resets for a kill setup or strings from other moves into a footstool>QAC reset/Jab Reset to setup further combos.
Utilt is really nice, as always. Though at low percents its not to nice to go for cause of crouch canceling.
Turns out the RAR from a air jump can only be done if you have more than one air jump, and not on the final jump. Example: Charizard can jump, then turn around during his 2nd jump, but not his 3rd, since its his final normal air jump.
TheDevicer: Just had a practice session of about 30 minutes of QAC. Here's a quick compilation of what came out of it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pc51_DzvNgY
Contains uAir and platforms... I am starting to believe Pikachu really loves Battlefield.
RoanYagyu: http://www.youtube.com/watch? v=_rZaWv9ojHs
Just to show basic stuff, Ill make a better one once I get more used to QACing. Also this shows what I meant by you can QAC lower than you were, though its a bit tricky
B.W.: So when I watch that video, when you QAC can you just do an attack right at the ground like you were, without double jumping or anything?
RoanYagyu: Correct, theres just enough frames for the first few active frames of those aerials to come out and hit them, you can L cancel them right after and follow up rather quickly, this may guarentee a grab setup if someone blocks the qac>aerial, tho im not 100% on that. I wasn't able to get Uair or Fair to work just yet tho, but I'll test it more later today.
B.W.: I thought the only option out of the QAC was a double jump, which I was already fairly good at. I'll do some testing myself to see what I can figure out about it. I know that QAC>Wavedash>u-smash is fantastic though.
TheDevicer: I couldn't do uAir or fAir instantly either...
B.W.: I know f-air has a small bit of startup so it's possible that you can't do f-air out of it without double jumping first since you're so close to the ground when you QAC. u-air seems like it should work since the move is very quick to come out but maybe it's some odd thing that P:M is doing that is making you unable to do it or something.
TheDevicer: I personally believe this to be an effect of fixed landing detection. Now that the top N bone isn't static, it's possible those moves extend it towards the ground and thus cause you to land. All of this is pure speculation. On the subject of your vid, I don't know about that last one... The waveland simply seems to take too long for a grab to be a safe option especially when factoring in how close you need to be to grab with Chu.
B.W.: Alright so messing with the QAC a little you can't f-air or u-air without double jumping first. If I think the reason for u-air not working is because Pikachu flips a little and his face hits the ground and it stops him. The f-air doesn't come out immediately so the hitbox never makes it out before hitting the ground.
N-air does come out but it's only like one or two hitboxes. You don't get much from it and it's really hard to hit with. D-air works, but the grounded part of Pikachu's d-air sucks just as bad as it did in Melee. I know b-air comes out but I didn't land a hit with it.
All in all I'd say the QAC is much more useful if you double jump out of it or wavedash and do some action out of that (jab/tilt/smash/grab/nothing). Also if you have good control of it if you QAC into someone then double jump and u-air quickly you can pop someone up and then just chase with another QAC, though it's not completely necessary since SHFFLing u-airs is just as effective. It helps starting with the QAC though since it's confusing as hell.
TheDevicer: This is what I've noticed as well. bAir out of QAC is good because if your opponent is stupid enough or locked into an animation, the hitstun of the QA seems to be enough to guarantee a hit. I'm unsure as to what extent you can SDI his QAs, though.
QAC chasing with uAirs is faster than SHFFLing but requires extreme precision so it's out of my arsenal as of now. I've spent lot's of time on uAir out of QAC and I believe it to be the most useful move out of the action.
B.W.: It really depends on your position I think. I've been playing a lot of Pikachu using QAC against Snake, Link, Marth, and Ike and I've been able to make every aerial useful out of it. Really you'd just use it as if you were SHFFLing it, but QAC just makes you dart around and makes you unpredictable. Also QAC "jab" resetting is something amazing since you can force someone to stand and n-air or d-air them to keep your offense going.
Also it's handy for clearing the stage and it makes your recovery safe if you're close enough to the stage and can get the QAC from off the stage.
But also you really need to refrain from QACing too much. It's a strong technique if you use it correctly but it's very easily countered if they know it's coming.
TheDevicer: Well hello there Pika fans. I really wish I weren't the only one this fanatical about Pikachu, but hey... Here's a best of 7 I had today with a good friend: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5jPQZmdb10
Cubelarooso: Y'all should try wavebouncing, it could have great usage with Thunder against linear recoveries. Along with QAC, RAR (with new/old Bair), and even crawling, Pikachu may gain the most from Brawl's Advanced Techniques (such a weird phrase) out of all the veterans.
Strong Bad: dthrow -> usmash is hilarious on spacies at hi % tho
TheDevicer: Some Axe PM vids. Newbies take note!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FDin9T47oA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7W6ILjZkHk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGpe3VD36qM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w0sV-Z8liE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRbYNGy66mw
B.W.: F-air being better is a godlike gift if you use it right. SHFFLing f-air so that he hits with it once and lands opens up many options like "f-air > u-smash" or "f-air > grab"
QAC makes a lot of difference too. It makes him even more mobile and it boosts his recovery by a little bit since if you're close enough to the stage when recovering you can quick attack onto the stage and QAC and then continue to be on the move. Not to mention being able to QAC from one side of a stage to the other. And lastly chaining u-airs with QAC rather than SHFFLing them is faster (or at least I think it is, not 100% sure, but it certainly seems faster).
I think Thunder starts from higher up and is more powerful. Anyone hit with u-smash > Thunder is practically dead. B-air is a nice gimping too. Currently I think Pikachu is fantastic. His d-throw could be better which has been previously stated.
standardtoaster: His uair does 7 from melee's 4 iirc.
Axcel: I noticed that if you QAC in the correct way you can do it while standing on the ground and then wavedash away. It's cool but idk if it's useful.
TheDevicer: Actually when I was first trying to learn QAC in friendlies, I overdid it to the max on purpose. All my friends adjusted, so actually staying in place was a good mixup. Surprised the hell out of people trying to predict. I personally believe the way to properly abuse Pikachu is to master movement with QAC. The technique perfectly complements the character's natural strengths.
uAir juggles like a boss! What are your favorite stages for Pika? I personally really love BF. Or FD against furries... Green Hill works well too because the platform allows you to extend really high up but is situational. The small size also creates a very claustrophobic feel to your opponents once they factor in that you can traverse the entire the stage in a few seconds, and this is not even factoring in QAC.
ImaClubYou: Pikachu needs more love. I think he can compete with high tiers. He has potential to destroy spacies, Ike, and the likes.
Uair gimps, Reverse midair Thunder for edge guards sometimes, jolt for gimps, Back air, everything.
It seems Pika's game centers around gimping and at higher percents an Up smash or something into Thunder will finish that off
Bamesy: I press more buttons with Pika than any other character and this is where everyone will have issues. As you've stated, his 'tech' isn't automatically rewarding. He has procedures to go through if he wants to get ANYTHING out of his speed. So the precision required is beyond (I would say ANY) other characters in the game. You're in for a long haul with this one, but it will come, just keep going and don't be afraid to die, a LOT.
Sapphire Dragon: And one of Pikachu's greatest strengths is his amazing potential for recovery. If you can DI well and use side B and up B effectively, you can usually survive to about 200% or so.
B.W.: I love recovering with Pikachu, because QAC makes recovering back on the stage a lot safer since you can wavedash or double jump and act as soon as you hit the stage. If Pikachu is close enough and you're tricky enough it's incredibly hard to keep off the stage.
Bamesy:
The best directly-to-help-the-Melee-Pika-metagame thing that happened in the transition to PM, is that his Dtilt can be cancelled with dashing backwards. The way it could forwards in Melee, rather than needing a JC to go backwards after like it did in Melee. So handy, such an obvious thing, but so much comfier and free-feeling to use Dtilt in every way in PM because of this.
Dettaδ:
Can I get some critique on my Pikachu?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAhDs6VrQn8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZWHMd9JqH4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXZ1bhHyxWs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBA_guPao-M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYJlwYl5DqI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANyGrZ_GC_Y
Sapphire Dragon: I'm wondering, does anyone have tips for playing as a defensive chu? I'm mostly aggressive but would like to switch between playstyles depending on my opponent's character and skill. I have the most issues with shieldgrabbing, though that's probably because Pika's shield is small and his grab range is even smaller. Any tips on spacing defensively via wavedashing/QAC?
ImaClubYou: @Sapphire: i would suggest Wavedash back Jolt. If there are multiple platform's or your on SV, throw some jolt's up there for some serious mindgames.
Also, Jolting while QAC INTO the jolt is great. Mix up the QACs like 1 part QA into the ground or 2 part QAs into the ground.
B.W.: Honestly QAC shouldn't be used as much as many people think it should. It's a tool that's very capable of throwing off your opponent, but using it too much makes it predictable, and leaves you open. Use it to switch your pace from time to time, you'll surprise your opponent with it a lot if you refrain from using it, but then switch gears.
Pikachu on defense has a few options, jump OoS n-air and u-air and u-smash OoS aren't too shabby depending on where the opponent is when they hit your shield. Pikachu is quick, if you want to run away and fire off thunder jolt at your opponent while Short Hopping in the other direction you can create decent space.
Dettaδ: @Sapphy: Use D-Tilt and F-Tilt a lot, try to shield while facing away from the opponent so if they attack your shield you can do U-Air OoS immediately.
I still have a habit of doing SH Tjolt from Brawl, since it lets you keep moving around while you shoot it.
Soft Serve: Could WD back OoS dtilt be useful?
TheDevicer: Yes but I find it's generally a better option to uAir OOS because of CC. Both tend to have the same effect but uAir is harder to counter.
I found the best defensive option for Pikachu to simply abuse speed to keep distance while feeling out my opponent. It's sometimes hard to make out openings with the rat, so spending some time on analyzing how to proceed really helps out. DD in and out of their range to taunt them and check how your opponents react. This works best on stages like FD but can be managed even on BF. If you feel like you're forced to play more defensively, the size of the stage you're playing on becomes a real issue. Ban stages like YS and BF if absolutely necessary. CP the PS stages or FD.
Hoe4u: for a defensive pikachu if you don't have much space to dart away try and bait your opponent to hit your shield then uair OOS and if your good at reading someone approaching and your spacing is good space your bairs.
If none of those can work for you then pikachu doesn't hold defensive game well, i would suggest tilts (most preferably upward angled ftilt), but same way very likely to clash or trade and not in pikas favour the majority of the time even with good prediction.
However pikachu is excellent at making room, i'd suggest using tap jump on so you can grounded QA OOS. Otherwise on a stage with platforms (even YS and especially BF), do any of you even know how amazing the radius of QA is currently for directions to return to comfortable ground and give yourself room straight away for aggresive play again? If your not in a situation that could lead to 'the first paragraph i wrote' then it's insanely easy to react to your opponents movement towards you and maneuver around them QAC further away or waveland to the ground, gain composition (if you want) then start going for aggressive gameplay.
Without platforms you'd have like 2-3 options which still makes it a relatively good guessing game more so in pikachu's favour but with platforms your looking at 4-7 options to work with which is stupidly easy to react to. The only thing you have to worry about is being hit while pikachu is in the extended hurtbox frames of his QA.
Bamesy: Your best bet at 'Defensive' plays with Pikachu will come down to what Pikachu has to use defensively. Thing of how a Falcon or something plays 'safely', what is the strength of a Fox and how do they stay safe? Speed. This isn't to completely avoid everything, though they can I suppose, but it's to avoid what they need to with the intent of transitioning their 'Defensive Plays' in 'Offensive Plays'.
With Pikachu, this will come down to evading by simply moving away, and things like messing up your opponents offensive options by approaching with things like your Shield.
Practice Pivot Ftilts and Dtilts, as evasion tools that can 'Transition' to offense from being defensive. Fading Fairs and Full Hop Uair/Dair into WLing backwards etc can work for the 'Walling' or 'Zoning' type of defensive play too.
As far as very safe 'not typical rush-down' Pikachu options, try getting comfortable with approaching with distant Dtilts and backing away after, poking at them. Things like approaching with your Shield and aerials out of it to quickly retreating work well too. That can act as bait at the very least.
Be very fluent with DDing, and using your shield as well as WD OOS to compliment aerials OOS. That's your best bet if you have to play 'Defensively'.
Captain L: PS you can edgehog from center stage if you know how to QA right, I don't think anyone has mentioned that in this thread yet. It's also hella easy.
The quick attack thing I was talking about can be seen at parts of the stream linked right below
http://www.twitch.tv/dazee_/b/337132969
Starting at 7:50, the match on dracula's is a great example of ways to practically use it to win actual matches.
Oh well. Kind of wanted this to be the first post so it could be expanded on but I'm a scrub, so this will have to do.
Here's an archive of the most helpful and detailed posts from the Pika social thread on Smashmods. Enjoy!
Pikachu General Discussion
Formerly QAC - Utility, Discoveries, and General Discussion
Zappo: I know you can't JC grab out of a QAC, because it's a second jump. However, you can wavedash out of it with a little practice. QAC nair looks pretty **** too, especially for followups off a platform.
Magus: You can't JC grab, but you can autocancel f/b-air into grab or anything else you want (the aerial doesn't hit but it makes you cancel into empty landing instead of special landing). It's faster than waveland grabbing.
TheDevicer: I know I've previously said otherwise, but blatantly QACing into people has become somewhat of a viable option for a few reasons.
1. You generally use it to space and get around people and not as a mechanism to put you directly where your opponent stands. This makes QACing into your opponent unexpected.
2. Increased hit-stun leaves more leeway for cooldown.
3. Something I don't expect to be too useful but shattered my expectations is the ability to wave-land out of Quick Attack. QAC into someone>wave-land so you overlap or your opponent is directly behind you>U-tilt>U-air chain
This string relies on not using it too much because QAC remains easy to intercept. Characters with large disjointed hitboxes perform this especially easily. This is a great way to set up for tail spikes and other shenanigans.
Spot-dodge to D-smash remains an effective "panic button". I would avoid using if possible because of how easy the move is to SDI. Nonetheless, it's a great way to force opponents off your back.
Reversing thunder is a great way to perform the move offstage and make it back safely. The conservation of momentum from jumps makes this particularly useful. Try on enemies recovering high.
On weak hits, especially at low percents, DI away and high. This is especially useful against characters that lack the ability to extend far beyond the ledge. QA remains a stellar recovery but requires some serious mixups. Don’t fret about aiming to sweetspot the ledge even when someone is hanging on it. Most of the time, they’ll anticipate you to extend onto the stage.
His U-smash remains amazing. Run at someone and about a character length away from the target, slam on the C-stick for some guaranteed fun. Nonetheless, never forget about the F-smash. It’s a great finisher simply because of how little use it gets. I also find it useful to extend the sweetspot slightly away and above the ledge to shut down recoveries. Wavelanding into this is hella flashy and satisfying.
Something that I love about Pika is that the landing lag of quick attacking into the stage has been decreased. In Melee, that lasted about a good second. This makes failing to QAC less punishable.
One N64 trick that I've picked up from Isai's Rat is the one hit fAir. It pretty much *****. Put's you into hit-stun while you L-cancel and proceed to grab/U-smash/U-tilt or whatever else meets your fancy. Also, the single best aerial to do out of QAC if you're not sure what to do is uAir.
jalued: On another note, my mate threw TL's bomb at me from above, and it hit my fair hitbox and exploded without damaging me. Fair > bombs
drpepper111: Does up air have the same hitboxes as Melee?
smk: Uair is the same as Melee, yes. It just does more damage, 7% iirc.
ajajayjay: Another use for quick attack cancelling - it can act as a jab reset (just a reset?).
Start off low and quick attack at an angle towards the ground and you basically slide the full length of quick attack across the ground (as opposed to melee in which the quick attack stops upon contact with the ground). This resets anyone lying on the ground.
Go parallel to the stage and then at an angle to the ground and you can jab reset someone 2/3 of the way across FD.
I've had the best luck wavelanding out of it and punishing appropriately (reset -> grab on fast fallers, reset -> up-smashing at high percents
RoanYagyu: Since its possible to RAR during double jumps, is it sometimes quicker to RAR doublejump>waveland to edgehog at certain distances from the ledge after a QAC, or to just QA again offstage and then back to the ledge?
TheDevicer: I'm unsure if DJ RAR is possible, but if so, it would indeed be faster. There's just one problem. Pika's WD isn't very long in the first place, so the QA would have to land on the lip itself to make the edgehog possible. It just seems to me that this would be very situational and that better options would exist.
The DJ RAR shouldn't be possible. After all, the whole premise is to dash, turn, jump, and direct your momentum towards the direction you originally faced. The DJ carries the momentum but can't turn, right?
RoanYagyu: I'll test this when I get home (currently in class) , but im pretty sure this is possible, another idea that came to mind with that whole thing is you could use it to quickly lead into bair strings for a gimp in certain situations
TheDevicer: bAir strings? bAir doesn't combo into itself. Are you sure you didn't mean uAir? On a side note, bAir out of QAC is great for sending people offstage and setup gimps.
Roan Yagyu: Yes I know it doesn't. This is if they are forced to recover low where they would have very little options to get around being Bair'd over and over.
TheDevicer: Sorry if I sounded condescending. I just thought you made a typo. I know pika had a QAC infinite with footstools in SSBB but I believe that involved the same principle as Falco's laser lock and thus won't carry over.
What's your thought's on U-tilt? I find it pops up opponents just right for juggles and is overall a fantastic combo started that can be wavelanded into from QAC. I think it has incredible utility when combined with uAirs. Also, I'm having a bit of trouble not tail spiking opponents. It's like I'm too used to it so I can't juggle using uAir.
RoanYagyu: You didn't sound condescending, don't worry about it. I know that the QAC lock is gone, but all the moves in brawl that locked seems to cause jab reset (or would it just be reset since its not from a jab?) in Project M. Meaning itll force a stand up. So I was wondering if there would be Footstool setups to QAC resets for a kill setup or strings from other moves into a footstool>QAC reset/Jab Reset to setup further combos.
Utilt is really nice, as always. Though at low percents its not to nice to go for cause of crouch canceling.
Turns out the RAR from a air jump can only be done if you have more than one air jump, and not on the final jump. Example: Charizard can jump, then turn around during his 2nd jump, but not his 3rd, since its his final normal air jump.
TheDevicer: Just had a practice session of about 30 minutes of QAC. Here's a quick compilation of what came out of it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pc51_DzvNgY
Contains uAir and platforms... I am starting to believe Pikachu really loves Battlefield.
RoanYagyu: http://www.youtube.com/watch? v=_rZaWv9ojHs
Just to show basic stuff, Ill make a better one once I get more used to QACing. Also this shows what I meant by you can QAC lower than you were, though its a bit tricky
B.W.: So when I watch that video, when you QAC can you just do an attack right at the ground like you were, without double jumping or anything?
RoanYagyu: Correct, theres just enough frames for the first few active frames of those aerials to come out and hit them, you can L cancel them right after and follow up rather quickly, this may guarentee a grab setup if someone blocks the qac>aerial, tho im not 100% on that. I wasn't able to get Uair or Fair to work just yet tho, but I'll test it more later today.
B.W.: I thought the only option out of the QAC was a double jump, which I was already fairly good at. I'll do some testing myself to see what I can figure out about it. I know that QAC>Wavedash>u-smash is fantastic though.
TheDevicer: I couldn't do uAir or fAir instantly either...
B.W.: I know f-air has a small bit of startup so it's possible that you can't do f-air out of it without double jumping first since you're so close to the ground when you QAC. u-air seems like it should work since the move is very quick to come out but maybe it's some odd thing that P:M is doing that is making you unable to do it or something.
TheDevicer: I personally believe this to be an effect of fixed landing detection. Now that the top N bone isn't static, it's possible those moves extend it towards the ground and thus cause you to land. All of this is pure speculation. On the subject of your vid, I don't know about that last one... The waveland simply seems to take too long for a grab to be a safe option especially when factoring in how close you need to be to grab with Chu.
B.W.: Alright so messing with the QAC a little you can't f-air or u-air without double jumping first. If I think the reason for u-air not working is because Pikachu flips a little and his face hits the ground and it stops him. The f-air doesn't come out immediately so the hitbox never makes it out before hitting the ground.
N-air does come out but it's only like one or two hitboxes. You don't get much from it and it's really hard to hit with. D-air works, but the grounded part of Pikachu's d-air sucks just as bad as it did in Melee. I know b-air comes out but I didn't land a hit with it.
All in all I'd say the QAC is much more useful if you double jump out of it or wavedash and do some action out of that (jab/tilt/smash/grab/nothing). Also if you have good control of it if you QAC into someone then double jump and u-air quickly you can pop someone up and then just chase with another QAC, though it's not completely necessary since SHFFLing u-airs is just as effective. It helps starting with the QAC though since it's confusing as hell.
TheDevicer: This is what I've noticed as well. bAir out of QAC is good because if your opponent is stupid enough or locked into an animation, the hitstun of the QA seems to be enough to guarantee a hit. I'm unsure as to what extent you can SDI his QAs, though.
QAC chasing with uAirs is faster than SHFFLing but requires extreme precision so it's out of my arsenal as of now. I've spent lot's of time on uAir out of QAC and I believe it to be the most useful move out of the action.
B.W.: It really depends on your position I think. I've been playing a lot of Pikachu using QAC against Snake, Link, Marth, and Ike and I've been able to make every aerial useful out of it. Really you'd just use it as if you were SHFFLing it, but QAC just makes you dart around and makes you unpredictable. Also QAC "jab" resetting is something amazing since you can force someone to stand and n-air or d-air them to keep your offense going.
Also it's handy for clearing the stage and it makes your recovery safe if you're close enough to the stage and can get the QAC from off the stage.
But also you really need to refrain from QACing too much. It's a strong technique if you use it correctly but it's very easily countered if they know it's coming.
TheDevicer: Well hello there Pika fans. I really wish I weren't the only one this fanatical about Pikachu, but hey... Here's a best of 7 I had today with a good friend: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5jPQZmdb10
Cubelarooso: Y'all should try wavebouncing, it could have great usage with Thunder against linear recoveries. Along with QAC, RAR (with new/old Bair), and even crawling, Pikachu may gain the most from Brawl's Advanced Techniques (such a weird phrase) out of all the veterans.
Strong Bad: dthrow -> usmash is hilarious on spacies at hi % tho
TheDevicer: Some Axe PM vids. Newbies take note!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FDin9T47oA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7W6ILjZkHk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGpe3VD36qM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w0sV-Z8liE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRbYNGy66mw
B.W.: F-air being better is a godlike gift if you use it right. SHFFLing f-air so that he hits with it once and lands opens up many options like "f-air > u-smash" or "f-air > grab"
QAC makes a lot of difference too. It makes him even more mobile and it boosts his recovery by a little bit since if you're close enough to the stage when recovering you can quick attack onto the stage and QAC and then continue to be on the move. Not to mention being able to QAC from one side of a stage to the other. And lastly chaining u-airs with QAC rather than SHFFLing them is faster (or at least I think it is, not 100% sure, but it certainly seems faster).
I think Thunder starts from higher up and is more powerful. Anyone hit with u-smash > Thunder is practically dead. B-air is a nice gimping too. Currently I think Pikachu is fantastic. His d-throw could be better which has been previously stated.
standardtoaster: His uair does 7 from melee's 4 iirc.
Axcel: I noticed that if you QAC in the correct way you can do it while standing on the ground and then wavedash away. It's cool but idk if it's useful.
TheDevicer: Actually when I was first trying to learn QAC in friendlies, I overdid it to the max on purpose. All my friends adjusted, so actually staying in place was a good mixup. Surprised the hell out of people trying to predict. I personally believe the way to properly abuse Pikachu is to master movement with QAC. The technique perfectly complements the character's natural strengths.
uAir juggles like a boss! What are your favorite stages for Pika? I personally really love BF. Or FD against furries... Green Hill works well too because the platform allows you to extend really high up but is situational. The small size also creates a very claustrophobic feel to your opponents once they factor in that you can traverse the entire the stage in a few seconds, and this is not even factoring in QAC.
ImaClubYou: Pikachu needs more love. I think he can compete with high tiers. He has potential to destroy spacies, Ike, and the likes.
Uair gimps, Reverse midair Thunder for edge guards sometimes, jolt for gimps, Back air, everything.
It seems Pika's game centers around gimping and at higher percents an Up smash or something into Thunder will finish that off
Bamesy: I press more buttons with Pika than any other character and this is where everyone will have issues. As you've stated, his 'tech' isn't automatically rewarding. He has procedures to go through if he wants to get ANYTHING out of his speed. So the precision required is beyond (I would say ANY) other characters in the game. You're in for a long haul with this one, but it will come, just keep going and don't be afraid to die, a LOT.
Sapphire Dragon: And one of Pikachu's greatest strengths is his amazing potential for recovery. If you can DI well and use side B and up B effectively, you can usually survive to about 200% or so.
B.W.: I love recovering with Pikachu, because QAC makes recovering back on the stage a lot safer since you can wavedash or double jump and act as soon as you hit the stage. If Pikachu is close enough and you're tricky enough it's incredibly hard to keep off the stage.
Bamesy:
The best directly-to-help-the-Melee-Pika-metagame thing that happened in the transition to PM, is that his Dtilt can be cancelled with dashing backwards. The way it could forwards in Melee, rather than needing a JC to go backwards after like it did in Melee. So handy, such an obvious thing, but so much comfier and free-feeling to use Dtilt in every way in PM because of this.
Dettaδ:
Can I get some critique on my Pikachu?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAhDs6VrQn8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZWHMd9JqH4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXZ1bhHyxWs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBA_guPao-M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYJlwYl5DqI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANyGrZ_GC_Y
Sapphire Dragon: I'm wondering, does anyone have tips for playing as a defensive chu? I'm mostly aggressive but would like to switch between playstyles depending on my opponent's character and skill. I have the most issues with shieldgrabbing, though that's probably because Pika's shield is small and his grab range is even smaller. Any tips on spacing defensively via wavedashing/QAC?
ImaClubYou: @Sapphire: i would suggest Wavedash back Jolt. If there are multiple platform's or your on SV, throw some jolt's up there for some serious mindgames.
Also, Jolting while QAC INTO the jolt is great. Mix up the QACs like 1 part QA into the ground or 2 part QAs into the ground.
B.W.: Honestly QAC shouldn't be used as much as many people think it should. It's a tool that's very capable of throwing off your opponent, but using it too much makes it predictable, and leaves you open. Use it to switch your pace from time to time, you'll surprise your opponent with it a lot if you refrain from using it, but then switch gears.
Pikachu on defense has a few options, jump OoS n-air and u-air and u-smash OoS aren't too shabby depending on where the opponent is when they hit your shield. Pikachu is quick, if you want to run away and fire off thunder jolt at your opponent while Short Hopping in the other direction you can create decent space.
Dettaδ: @Sapphy: Use D-Tilt and F-Tilt a lot, try to shield while facing away from the opponent so if they attack your shield you can do U-Air OoS immediately.
I still have a habit of doing SH Tjolt from Brawl, since it lets you keep moving around while you shoot it.
Soft Serve: Could WD back OoS dtilt be useful?
TheDevicer: Yes but I find it's generally a better option to uAir OOS because of CC. Both tend to have the same effect but uAir is harder to counter.
I found the best defensive option for Pikachu to simply abuse speed to keep distance while feeling out my opponent. It's sometimes hard to make out openings with the rat, so spending some time on analyzing how to proceed really helps out. DD in and out of their range to taunt them and check how your opponents react. This works best on stages like FD but can be managed even on BF. If you feel like you're forced to play more defensively, the size of the stage you're playing on becomes a real issue. Ban stages like YS and BF if absolutely necessary. CP the PS stages or FD.
Hoe4u: for a defensive pikachu if you don't have much space to dart away try and bait your opponent to hit your shield then uair OOS and if your good at reading someone approaching and your spacing is good space your bairs.
If none of those can work for you then pikachu doesn't hold defensive game well, i would suggest tilts (most preferably upward angled ftilt), but same way very likely to clash or trade and not in pikas favour the majority of the time even with good prediction.
However pikachu is excellent at making room, i'd suggest using tap jump on so you can grounded QA OOS. Otherwise on a stage with platforms (even YS and especially BF), do any of you even know how amazing the radius of QA is currently for directions to return to comfortable ground and give yourself room straight away for aggresive play again? If your not in a situation that could lead to 'the first paragraph i wrote' then it's insanely easy to react to your opponents movement towards you and maneuver around them QAC further away or waveland to the ground, gain composition (if you want) then start going for aggressive gameplay.
Without platforms you'd have like 2-3 options which still makes it a relatively good guessing game more so in pikachu's favour but with platforms your looking at 4-7 options to work with which is stupidly easy to react to. The only thing you have to worry about is being hit while pikachu is in the extended hurtbox frames of his QA.
Bamesy: Your best bet at 'Defensive' plays with Pikachu will come down to what Pikachu has to use defensively. Thing of how a Falcon or something plays 'safely', what is the strength of a Fox and how do they stay safe? Speed. This isn't to completely avoid everything, though they can I suppose, but it's to avoid what they need to with the intent of transitioning their 'Defensive Plays' in 'Offensive Plays'.
With Pikachu, this will come down to evading by simply moving away, and things like messing up your opponents offensive options by approaching with things like your Shield.
Practice Pivot Ftilts and Dtilts, as evasion tools that can 'Transition' to offense from being defensive. Fading Fairs and Full Hop Uair/Dair into WLing backwards etc can work for the 'Walling' or 'Zoning' type of defensive play too.
As far as very safe 'not typical rush-down' Pikachu options, try getting comfortable with approaching with distant Dtilts and backing away after, poking at them. Things like approaching with your Shield and aerials out of it to quickly retreating work well too. That can act as bait at the very least.
Be very fluent with DDing, and using your shield as well as WD OOS to compliment aerials OOS. That's your best bet if you have to play 'Defensively'.
Captain L: PS you can edgehog from center stage if you know how to QA right, I don't think anyone has mentioned that in this thread yet. It's also hella easy.
The quick attack thing I was talking about can be seen at parts of the stream linked right below
http://www.twitch.tv/dazee_/b/337132969
Starting at 7:50, the match on dracula's is a great example of ways to practically use it to win actual matches.
Sapphire Dragon
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Yeah, but that's all general info that would be talked about here anyway. XD After all, it was posted in the original general thread, too. It's just really some tech talk and some Q/A about Pikachu's options in various circumstances but I'm not sure how I'd organize that. I could possibly make a FAQ with some of it but I dunno, maybe?
I guess I could try a FAQ then, haha.
I guess I could try a FAQ then, haha.
standardtoaster
Tubacabra
Sapphire, why did you put [P:M] in all of your thread titles? We already know it's about Project M.
Sapphire Dragon
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Ah, I had thought this was just the general Smash Workshop forum for any Brawl mod characters but I see now. I'll change that. XD
batistabus
Smash Journeyman
Do Assist Trophy sounds work?if you guys could look through some of the sound effects in sound test for a better one on nair, that'd help
And that Falco SFX would've been perfect >.<
standardtoaster
Tubacabra
unfortunately, I don't think those work either unless the assist trophy is in the match lol
batistabus
Smash Journeyman
Damn. Well I see where the problem comes from then. Personally, I'd rather have a jab sound effect than what we have now.
After looking through, I think Pikachu - 52 might work. It's a sort of squishy sound, and I could imagine that sound with Pikachu curling himself into a ball. I think even 44 (the uair and bair sound) might work.
After looking through, I think Pikachu - 52 might work. It's a sort of squishy sound, and I could imagine that sound with Pikachu curling himself into a ball. I think even 44 (the uair and bair sound) might work.
standardtoaster
Tubacabra
Thanks, we'll see how those work out. 
dkuo
Smash Lord
supppppp
i havent played pm in so long lol. someday ill get a wii and start putting in work for pm ~_~ as for now im just copying my melee pika stuff and doing it in pm
i havent played pm in so long lol. someday ill get a wii and start putting in work for pm ~_~ as for now im just copying my melee pika stuff and doing it in pm
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I love Pikachu in PM! He's so fun.
Spoon~
Smash Ace
Pika the best
jalued
Smash Lord
has pikachu's upB distance been matched to melee for 2.5? I knoww it was a bit different for 2.1 which put a few people off playing him
Sapphire Dragon
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*celebrates*
I'd been waiting for that fix, I felt like it was changed when I played him but I wasn't completely sure. Kudos to you all. <3
I'd been waiting for that fix, I felt like it was changed when I played him but I wasn't completely sure. Kudos to you all. <3
batistabus
Smash Journeyman
Thank you <3Thanks, we'll see how those work out.
Spoon~
Smash Ace
So I've been working on straight up maining this rat. QAC everything is beyond awesome. Whats been changed between PM pika and melee besides less QA end lag, bair and the ability to cancel QA?
Sapphire Dragon
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Nair sfx, Uair still has the spike albeit slightly different to angle, and Dair has a little less lag when hitting the ground from what I've seen.
tangyzizzler
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So I think I've stumbled upon some new Pikachu tech. I've actually been contemplating making a video out of this stuff because I recently got a capture card and would like to display my findings in a more easily-digestible format, but I've never done any video editing before and don't know what program I should use. Suggestions?
Anyway, here are my discoveries:
If you QAC into the ground and perform a D-air (I prefer using the C-stick for this technique), you'll do a grounded D-air. Yeah, you read that right: a grounded D-air. Check it out. The hitbox is actually pretty spectacular because it hits on either side of Pikachu and it comes out instantly.
Some other stuff you guys might not be aware of:
If you Quick Attack into a platform from above, and continue to hold "down" on the control stick, you will pass through the platform pretty quickly. From here, you can move left/right a little bit (with the control stick) and use any aerial you want. The amount of options this opens up for Pikachu's platform game is absolutely staggering.
You can also do the same technique as above (Quick Attack into a platform from above and then hold down on the Control Stick) and then tap "down" on the control stick AGAIN once the dropping-through-the-platform animation has started. This will make Pikachu fast fall through the platform (which may be useful if you're trying to escape from someone). I'm pretty sure you can Uair with this method, but that might be the only aerial that works since Pikachu drops through the platform so quickly. Fast-falled platform-dropped Uairs are PLENTY good, though.
Another technique that seems really basic but wasn't obvious to me at first is using Pikachu's Down+B in the air while NOT MOVING HORIZONTALLY LEFT OR RIGHT; Pikachu will hold his vertical position for a bit (will stop falling entirely) allowing you an easy Up+B recovery back to the ledge. I can see this being really good for pressuring people that you've sent out far horizontally.
I can honestly see Pikachu being God Tier if someone were to master all his advanced techniques. The number of options you have available to you at any given moment is astounding, and we probably haven't even discovered all of them.
Anyway, here are my discoveries:
If you QAC into the ground and perform a D-air (I prefer using the C-stick for this technique), you'll do a grounded D-air. Yeah, you read that right: a grounded D-air. Check it out. The hitbox is actually pretty spectacular because it hits on either side of Pikachu and it comes out instantly.
Some other stuff you guys might not be aware of:
If you Quick Attack into a platform from above, and continue to hold "down" on the control stick, you will pass through the platform pretty quickly. From here, you can move left/right a little bit (with the control stick) and use any aerial you want. The amount of options this opens up for Pikachu's platform game is absolutely staggering.
You can also do the same technique as above (Quick Attack into a platform from above and then hold down on the Control Stick) and then tap "down" on the control stick AGAIN once the dropping-through-the-platform animation has started. This will make Pikachu fast fall through the platform (which may be useful if you're trying to escape from someone). I'm pretty sure you can Uair with this method, but that might be the only aerial that works since Pikachu drops through the platform so quickly. Fast-falled platform-dropped Uairs are PLENTY good, though.
Another technique that seems really basic but wasn't obvious to me at first is using Pikachu's Down+B in the air while NOT MOVING HORIZONTALLY LEFT OR RIGHT; Pikachu will hold his vertical position for a bit (will stop falling entirely) allowing you an easy Up+B recovery back to the ledge. I can see this being really good for pressuring people that you've sent out far horizontally.
I can honestly see Pikachu being God Tier if someone were to master all his advanced techniques. The number of options you have available to you at any given moment is astounding, and we probably haven't even discovered all of them.
Spiffykins
Smash Ace
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I think tons of people see their mains being God Tier if someone masters them. That's the great and exciting thing about a fresh meta. It really depends on who goes into the lab and what they bring back. To be honest, I'm hoping for/expecting a tier list that's like, 1/2 S and 1/2 A.
That said, this Lucario main respects the Pika. Make your Poke-brethren proud.
tripwire
Smash Journeyman
None of that is new news but useful to have on here. It was mentioned on smashmods.
theONEjanitor
Smash Champion
pikachu seems quite to me, its a wonder he isn't getting that much love
Vashimus
Smash Master
I really don't see Pikachu becoming god-tier....well, ever. Bad range and a poor air game REALLY holds him back.
Spiffykins
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That...is perfect.I really don't see Pikachu becoming god-tier....well, ever. Bad range and a poor air game REALLY holds him back.
But since when is Pika's air game poor? Bad range, sure, but those aerial combos are snazzy and lead into gimps and edge guards.
theONEjanitor
Smash Champion
yeah pika's air game is fine lol. all five of his aerials are beast. his entire moveset is kind of beast tbh. i think pikachu is going to be good. in the upper half of characters for sure. i dunno about God tier, but he's got some great combos as well as QAC mindgames, and easy kill set ups.