Pikachu Social Thread

[Stevo]

maybe someone here can help figure this out for me.

In melee, when I want to do an up-air out of shield with pika, how I do it is I press jump, then quickly up and A.

I realize I could just press up, wait a fraction of a second, and then A and have the same effect, but that is just how I have learned to do it over the 11 years of playing this game.

In project M, when I use the exact same timing, I end up jumping then double jumping immediately to up-air. I ALSO realize that you can turn tap jump off, but I use that for Up-smash out of shield, and I tend to stick with the default controller settings anyway.

I'm mostly just curious as to why that is? Does pika jump faster now? I have a feeling it is similar to how you can shdl with fox easier now. As far as I know that is just a 1 frame difference though.... but I guess 1 frame really CAN make a big difference.

 

[standardtoaster]

the 1 frame is with momentum based things. the sensitivity on doing a double jump with the joystick is close to melee but probably not exact, making you double jump instead of up air

 

[tripwire]

Is Pikachu's Up-B completly Melee like now?

 

[B.W.]

I dunno how many people know this but one very neat trick that's a bit difficult to pull off with the QAC is you can make it have 0 land lag without double jumping.

To do this you have to b-air out of it, but you have to time the b-air so that you start to perform it but it never really starts to come out causing it to auto-cancel.

To see if you did it right look for a shockwave that is also made by landing without an attack happening. If you get the shockwave you auto-cancelled your b-air (and therefore your QAC). If you get dust, you either did the b-air too early and it never came out or you did it too late.

I've been playing with Pikachu's tech stuff again because it's fun. Maybe I'll go back to trying to play him for real, dunno yet though.

EDIT: I didn't see the tech discussion. Apparently this was already said. Oh well, now if people missed it there they'll see it here.

 

[awesome13579]

Pikachu's Up B feels like Melee, but sometimes it does not grab the ledge like it should, like it did in Melee. Am I the only one with this issue?

Also, how would Pikachu be if his dash attack could be jump canceled? Special canceled?

 

[B.W.]

You are not. Pikachu requires you to be slightly above the ledge to "sweetspot" it.

Also he'd be dumb. No character should be able to just outright cancel their dash attack with a jump. It'd make it the most spammable move ever on top of making it safe.

 

[GMaster171]

Also he'd be dumb. No character should be able to just outright cancel their dash attack with a jump. It'd make it the most spammable move ever on top of making it safe.

*Insert Sonic here*

I don't know what to do with Pikachu... I want to play the character, but also don't really want to spend that much time on another character. Love Pikachu tho.

I'll decide something heh.

 

[standardtoaster]

Is Pikachu's Up-B completly Melee like now?

It is not completely melee. It is as close as we could get it right now.

 

[B.W.]

If 2.6 Pikachu has Melee QA length and Melee QA ledge sweetspot I'm totally jumping back on him. That's literally the only thing holding me back from playing him.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

[Spoon~]

If 2.6 Pikachu has Melee QA length and Melee QA ledge sweetspot I'm totally jumping back on him. That's literally the only thing holding me back from playing him.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4 Beta

This so hard. I mean, i still play him and rage when QA hits the ledge and doesn't grab, but id love him way more if it actually worked.

 

[Sapphire Dragon]

For anyone with 2.6 now: Are there any noticeable changes to Pikachu this time around? :o

 

[Deleted member]

The only thing I've noticed so far is that his head glows when using F-air. I'm not sure if it's just an aesthetic thing or if it actually increased the move's range slightly.

 

[Shell]

Fair's range has been increased slightly, thus the need for GFX. The graphic on Dair was just to tie things together aesthetically and fit since the hitbox on that was already larger than fairs, and does not represent a stat change.

 

[Sapphire Dragon]

That's awesome. Thanks for the info. :D

 

[B.W.]

Neat. Now how about that QA fix?

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

[Spoon~]

Neat. Now how about that QA fix?

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4 Beta

Nope, still get repelled from the ledge on should be ledge snaps

 

[Anther]

*throws a thunder jolt into the thread*

 

[Sapphire Dragon]

*Jumps over the thread and calls down a Thunder*

 

[Anther]

And thus the pikachu party has started again!
In other news, they improved the quick attack behavior in 2.6b. I think it always goes full distance regardless of how long you hold the stick and doesn't bounce as hard on the ledge.

 

[Strong Badam]

And thus the pikachu party has started again!
In other news, they improved the quick attack behavior in 2.6b. I think it always goes full distance regardless of how long you hold the stick and doesn't bounce as hard on the ledge.

The Up-B now functions 100% like Melee's does, and allows QAC.

 

[Shell]

Close -- in Melee if you weren't holding the stick far enough in any direction you defaulted to traveling Up at full distance. In PM you would also default to Up, but at the shortest distance. This was fixed.

There are a lot of little physics & timing things that Magus also worked hard at porting over for 2.6b that all added up, so big props to him.

 

[sheNanagans]

I'm really liking the feel of Pika's new QA

 

[B.W.]

Once I have the time, I'll be messin around with the Chu again.

 

[sheNanagans]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liUDHuoI9yg

Pikachu's Quick Attack is SO OP!

(Also I made this in like 10 Minutes so ignore the editing)

 

[Paradoxium]

So, D-smash on shield or U-tilt on shield? Honestly when they shield I usually get grabbed if they can grab before I activate D-smash. I've been resorting to using D-tilt to attack from a distance and just running nair them when they drop their shield. I just need help against shield grabbers.

 

[sheNanagans]

I usually like down tilt on shield if I land in front of them from a nair. If I land behind them I like to SH up air. Down Smash on shield doesn't feel safe to me and neither does utilt. I started approaching with Auto canceled fair which is a great mixup with Nair. If they shield the fair you should have enough time to score a grab because they will be locked in shield stun.

 

[Paradoxium]

So will fair auto cancel grab out speed an u-smash/up-b out of shield? And are there any other options against a shielding opponent?

 

[sheNanagans]

Depending on the character yes. You have a few frames where you are able to act while they are stuck in shield stun (I am not entirely sure how many frames). If your grab is faster then their action + these few frames of lag then you will out speed them.

Some stuff I do around shields:

Mix up wether I land in front or behind the enemy when I SHFFL Nairs/Fairs. this way they might shield grab while I land behind them so I get a free Punish.

facing away up air. I really like this option because theres a lot you can do with it. as soon as you jump if you up air the hitbox will start near the ground. This will also flick opponents straight up where you can punish them with back air or another up air.

Quick Attack through their shield, jump and Uair/Bair.

Dashdance around and try to bait rolls. Pikachu's dashdance is scary. and If an opponent rolls you can almost always punish with an up smash if you read the roll.

When you land from an aerial run away. They may expect you to tilt from your landing so they simply wont do anything giving you time to escape.

Grab them. At low percent down throw combos into a lot of stuff (utilt/usmash/another grab/aerials) and at higher percent you can throw them for stage positioning. Sometimes empty jump to grab is really tricky.

Cover your landing with tilts (especially dtilt) If they grab/Upsmash/Drop their shield right after your Nair hits their shield then you can sometimes score a hit with Dtilt.

Well spaced Dtilts. If you Dtilt them from a range that they cant grab but you can still hit their shield you force them to use another option (which you may be able to punish)

Cover your landing with Rapid Jabs. Same as above

grounded tjolt into grounded full length quick attack cancel into anything you do out of a Quick attack. The tjolt will stay on the ground just ahead of you and will shield stun when it hits.

Full hop T jolt while moving forward, then run in. it will provide shield stun if it hits.

Dont approach... you dont always need to run in at an opponent shoot t jolts from a distance. they cant shield them forever.

Theres some stuff that I do that may or may not work for you.

If you watch the last match here you can see a lot of how I interact with shielding opponents (especialy G&W who has to shield a lot)
http://www.twitch.tv/shenanagans_/c/2672050

starts around 24:30

The 1st 2 stocks in the last game I got kills because I got him stuck in his shield ani forced a mistake.

 

[outlawpika]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liUDHuoI9yg

Pikachu's Quick Attack is SO OP!

(Also I made this in like 10 Minutes so ignore the editing)

How are you just finding out about this?
When he 'stretches' he become enormous in the direction he stretches in.

 

[Nausicaa]

I usually like down tilt on shield if I land in front of them from a nair. If I land behind them I like to SH up air. Down Smash on shield doesn't feel safe to me and neither does utilt. I started approaching with Auto canceled fair which is a great mixup with Nair. If they shield the fair you should have enough time to score a grab because they will be locked in shield stun.

Some stuff I do around shields:

Mix up wether I land in front or behind the enemy when I SHFFL Nairs/Fairs. this way they might shield grab while I land behind them so I get a free Punish.

Dashdance around and try to bait rolls. Pikachu's dashdance is scary. and If an opponent rolls you can almost always punish with an up smash if you read the roll.

When you land from an aerial run away. They may expect you to tilt from your landing so they simply wont do anything giving you time to escape.

Grab them. At low percent down throw combos into a lot of stuff (utilt/usmash/another grab/aerials) and at higher percent you can throw them for stage positioning. Sometimes empty jump to grab is really tricky.

Good posts, to add to these...

Watch for them holding their shield straight through the Nair/Fair > Uair/Dsmash. If your opponent is quick to pick it up, they can easily punish you with a simple Bair/whatever. It took Axe probably a good 9 months or so to stop the habit of Nair > Uair without any other variation after it was brought up and discussed in the Melee boards by multiple members, including himself, and this includes 3 months of getting hit for it after Forward/Tai/etc picked up on it (inevitably) and started Bairing him for it essentially every time.

Dashing away is probably the best course of action as a go-to in this kind of situation. You're already creating a presence that establishes you'll be offensive and fast, let them play accordingly and limit themselves to trying to react to what YOU do, and don't do anything. This continues the pressure a lot more than actual actions/hits on them following 'approaches' ever will, in terms of universal application.
Let them panic while you DD in front of them, either doing some counter-action or maneuver, or staying put, then punish accordingly. You have an advantage, don't push it, but use it to let them dig a hole for themselves.
Dashing as a follow up is exceptionally safe for you, leaves you with every option available, doesn't send you out of position to not be able to punish them, but doesn't commit to anything; which will fortify yourself as an offensive threat, without allowing them to catch on to any patterns you may have.
'Patterns you may have' < implies this should not be the only thing you do after hitting their shield, and not to do the same thing after the Dash Away (through as well) either.

The 2 things Nanagans said in one. "Don't approach, you don't have to and they can't shield forever < they'll have to commit to something" + "Dash dance to bait out actions, it's scary with Pika DDing < they'll want to commit to something"

 

[Juushichi]

Pika finally won a tournament.

Good job Anther!

 

[Nausicaa]

Cool. Good to hear.

Edit: I mean, **** that, Pika is garbage and it was just a dream.

 

[Anther]

Pika finally won a tournament.

Good job Anther!

<3

Granted.. the guy that won the previous tourney wasn't there, but I did at least stop suiciding as much this time around!

 

[Nausicaa]

I did at least stop suiciding as much this time around!

Such a difficult step for Pika's everywhere.
You have gained a level and learned 'don't self-destruct', grats again. lol

 

[Juushichi]

<3

Granted.. the guy that won the previous tourney wasn't there, but I did at least stop suiciding as much this time around!

Slayer won the last one, right? He's pretty hard. I lost 1-2 to him last time we played.

 

[Anther]

Oh good job, he's pretty beastly.
Here's my set vs him from two weeks ago. It was my first time playing the offline version of PM so my movements were extra clunky and I was afraid to quick attack. I'll get'em next time ;D.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDoXodIjJUg

 

[Nausicaa]

Nice end there. Classic self-destructing?
The nipple spike to start that match was pretty funny too. First set I've watched all the way through in a long time. Smash is a good spectator sport.

I love how it's so easy to get away with and make good use of over committing against Marth, as it's worth the trades throughout mid-% ranges, yet it always turns into one of those 'scare the opponent' fests by the end of every stock. Cool transition to see in others playing the match-up too, good stuff.
It's the complete opposite against Falcon too. Whoever attacks first, gets hit first, and it turns into a chore of just not doing anything he can catch you for, while baiting his approaches out. You could have used that whisper in the ear about 'you don't have to go to them if you don't want to' and it could have saved a bit of a variation of self-destructing in each of the matches. Also classic, good adapting afterwards too.

Against Marth, every time you approached with Shield, good things happened. Just figured that was worth mentioning.
He also attempted to Fsmash you after essentially EVERY Double QA into the stage you did, which just resulted in hitting a Jolt with it while you were out of range. If you took that 'no commitment' thing to that situation too, a simple WD out in anticipation of the inevitable Fsmash is free garbs.
That would have lead to him not doing it though, probably, and the match would have been like the last 20 seconds of the last stock for the whole match... and that's straining if anything is.

Good stuff to see overall. I like Slayers flailing empty FJ/FJ Uair style with Falcon, reminiscent of Dash up > Uair OOS against Jiggs type of play. This is a good indicator that you were SCARING him, but weren't waiting it out long enough for that

Good posts, to add to these...

The 2 things Nanagans said in one. "Don't approach, you don't have to and they can't shield forever < they'll have to commit to something" + "Dash dance to bait out actions, it's scary with Pika DDing < they'll want to commit to something"

Thing.

For whatever it's worth, hope that outside insight might help slay Slayer in the future, when he DOES show up. :D

 

[Anther]

Thanks Nausicaa :D.
That's actually some very useful insight, especially the tidbits about not going in. There's that random invisible pressure that makes me always want to force an opening.
During that first match vs slayer I consciously noticed a lot of the tendencies and relatively easy openings he created.. ( I actually underestimated him as a player T.T ), but I was also accounting for the fact that I was on tilt and not operating mechanically as strongly as I wanted to be so I forced a lot of bad approaches. ;-;.

Hopefully I can pull some better matches off in the near future.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DZUxB9Dyy4 - Another random match from that tourney with too many SD's ;p. I'm experimenting with taking a break from wifi to cleanse my system a bit.

 

[Nausicaa]

It's tough to get a feel for the fact that the opponent will feel the pressure too, especially since you can establish an offense so easily with Pika naturally.
Breaks are good.

 

[Sarix]

Out of curiosity how do you Pikachu mains maintain pressure when you can get in? I feel like whenever I can capitalize on anything that after a very few attacks Pikachu's pressure resets and it feels like I'm trying to grasp greasy butter in my hand when trying to keep the advantage.

I like how he plays I'm just stuck in the awkward phase of understanding the roles of Pikachu's normals for pressure, spacing, combo filler, etc.