Pikachu: A discussion

[D. Disciple]

Okay I was about to say, if Pika can't tailspike then wtf are they doing taking away something he's been having for years now. So it seems he has some moves that seem to be as strong as he use to be in 64 version, his dsmash sounds like that. Does he still spin around and rack up damage or is it similar to the one in 64.

Also for his usmash, does it have any decent knockback when he's facing away from his opponent? Or is still in front.

How are his tilts?

 

[festizzio]

His utilt looks really cool, he sort of jumps up in the air so only his front legs are on the ground and hits with his tail. His ftilt and dtilt do pretty much the same exact thing. Usmash still only kills if they're in front of you, if they're behind you they get hit by the tail a little and don't go anywhere.

 

[Tagxy]

Hey, if you get a chance could you answer my questions? Just ignore them if theyre repetitive to what you've answered



Does the lag on Pikachu's b-attacks change any (especially quick attack)?

Are Pikachu's smash attacks still the same? Do they seem similar in their execution?

Are Pikachu's aerials still the same? Do they seem similar to melee in execution?

Does pikachus down b have a cloud? Is it higher than before?

Does pikachu's forward b have more range and/or power?

Does Pikachu have more range in general?

Were any characteristics of pichu integrated into pikachu?

Is he floatier than before? Is he less floaty in comparison to others?

And speed, is he faster than before? If not how does he compare to others (especially meta knight)?

Does his dash attack have less lag?

Does pikachus crawl serve any purpose? Can he crawl backwards? Can it move below certain attacks?

Is pikachu smaller?

 

[Tagxy]

Just so this is gathered in one place, I'm going to post this here

These quotes are from RocketDarkness, who is awesome.

Pikachu, in general, has less lags on most of his attacks. Thunder seems to come out faster and has tooooons less lag on the end. Quick attack was so quick I died a few times because I didn't input the second direction in time. He seems slightly smaller than the massive rat he was in brawl, also. But some of his attacks seem to have the same range, so they are larger in comparison to his size, in that respect. Most noticeably for me, was the fact that his tail seemed to double in size when doing USmashes.

It seems to have a bit of a vortex effect (I only used it once or twice, so I can't guarantee this is true), similar to his Dsmash in SSB, or Peach's in Melee. Additionally, many of these multi-hit attacks seem to rack up damage much better in general. His Usmash still seemed relatively strong compared to most other characters. Probably better than every other character's except Bowser and Ike, who are meant to be heavy hitters.

 

[RocketDarkness]

Replies in bold.

Hey, if you get a chance could you answer my questions? Just ignore them if theyre repetitive to what you've answered



Does the lag on Pikachu's b-attacks change any (especially quick attack)?
Skull bash still seems to have quite a bit of lag once landing, but not any more than before.

Are Pikachu's smash attacks still the same? Do they seem similar in their execution?
These are definitely the same. As I speculated, Pikachu seems ever so slightly smaller, so he seems to have a higher hitbox-to-rodent ratio. His up+A definitely causes his tail to scale, similar to how Mario's fist gets bigger when he does a Fair in melee.

Are Pikachu's aerials still the same? Do they seem similar to melee in execution?
Again, very similar to melee. The only one I don't 100% remember seeing is his Bair, but the other 3 are the same. Not sure about damage/knockback though.

Does pikachus down b have a cloud? Is it higher than before?
If there is a cloud, it's ridiculously high up and I never saw it. Seems to be like the original smash, where it come all the way down from the sky.

Does pikachu's forward b have more range and/or power?
Only used it once, and not fully charged, but it played the same. Definitely not the missile that Pichu was in Melee, sadly.

Does Pikachu have more range in general?
As said above, he covers roughly the same distance with his attacks as before, but he's smaller, so his range may have increased to compensate for his smaller size.

Were any characteristics of pichu integrated into pikachu?
Possibly Down-Smash. Otherwise, unsure.

Is he floatier than before? Is he less floaty in comparison to others?
Don't recall.

And speed, is he faster than before? If not how does he compare to others (especially meta knight)?
Don't recall

Does his dash attack have less lag?
Unsure. I was still getting used to the Wiimote, and dashing, requiring double-tapping on the D-pad, was a very jerky, unpleasant affair

Does pikachus crawl serve any purpose? Can he crawl backwards? Can it move below certain attacks?
Didn't try

Is pikachu smaller?
Pretty sure, yes

Sorry a lot of this is vague, but I only had 2 minutes of time with the rat, heheh. If I'm wrong, I hope someone corrects me quickly.

 

[Tagxy]

Thank you!

Follow up question for anyone: If pikachu is smaller, does he seem to get knocked around easier/ feel like he's more of a lightweight then in melee?

I heard somewhere that quick attack seemed quicker as it executes. Anyone else confirm this?

more info from nealdt

Oh, something else for Pikachu: his thunder has a higher ceiling. It's not the whole screen like 64, but there's no cloud on screen like Melee -- it always comes from up higher. Pikachu is great on Pokemon Stadium because his thunder kills very quickly on the Air transformation.

 

[RocketDarkness]

Thank you!

Follow up question for anyone: If pikachu is smaller, does he seem to get knocked around easier/ feel like he's more of a lightweight then in melee?
Didn't seem to play any lighter than before, as far as I noticed.

I heard somewhere that quick attack seemed quicker as it executes. Anyone else confirm this?
Definitely, noticeably faster. Almost instantaneous to execute, I believe. Landing speed, do not recall.

Again, responses in bold.

 

[pikachun00b7]

Question: Is Pikachu good?

 

[RocketDarkness]

Hmm...he certainly wasn't bad, though again, this is during a 2-minute brawl using Wiimotes and items falling out of every orifice. I probably would have won the match I was playing soundly if I hadn't had the misfortune of having one Smash Ball beaten out of me because it refused to activate quickly, and then the second Smash Ball resulting in 3 kills for Mario in the last few seconds.

 

[BrimconSako]

Hmm, I like what I see here.. buffs to Pikachu with his possible godly Thunder. a faster Quick Attack? Should be fun. If the Bair is any different than his flat.. spin esque move let us know..

 

[Tagxy]

A return to SSB back air would be awesome, but it sounds like it's still the melee version. But from Festizzio's description it still sounds better.

If someone gets information on the lag after an up-b let us know! There should be three if it's at all like smash, ending an up b on the ground, ending an up b just above the ground, and ending an up b higher in the air. Info on any one would be awesome.

 

[festizzio]

Hey, if you get a chance could you answer my questions? Just ignore them if theyre repetitive to what you've answered



Does the lag on Pikachu's b-attacks change any (especially quick attack)?

Are Pikachu's smash attacks still the same? Do they seem similar in their execution?

Are Pikachu's aerials still the same? Do they seem similar to melee in execution?

Does pikachus down b have a cloud? Is it higher than before?

Does pikachu's forward b have more range and/or power?

Does Pikachu have more range in general?

Were any characteristics of pichu integrated into pikachu?

Is he floatier than before? Is he less floaty in comparison to others?

And speed, is he faster than before? If not how does he compare to others (especially meta knight)?

Does his dash attack have less lag?

Does pikachus crawl serve any purpose? Can he crawl backwards? Can it move below certain attacks?

Is pikachu smaller?

Hey sorry I didn't see this before I left, I left around 10:30 this morning.
I'll try to answer as much as possible, as I probably played pikachu the most over the three days.

1. Quick attack is faster, and sounds really cool. I didn't find it any harder to control.

2. His smash attacks are pretty much the same, although his fsmash has quite a bit more range, it hits them even when you wouldn't think it would. His usmash's base % for damage is 14-15%, still pretty powerful. Dsmash is really good, probably his 2nd or even 1st strongest KO move, believe it or not.

3. All of them are pretty similar, except for the bair which hits multiple times, it's hard to compare it to anything in melee other than samus's fair; it's still not very accurate as the range isn't as good, but think of samus's fair in terms of how many times it hits. His uair DOES SPIKE still, I found this out today, I'm just not sure how to do it exactly yet, but I'm sure after the game comes out many people will figure it out right away. It definitely still spikes though. I'm also not sure of the applications of it because it's so much easier for people to sweet spot the edge and a lot of the characters seem to run slower so jumping out after the enemy is almost impossible.

4. I didn't see any cloud at all, but his thunder is so much quicker it's semi-spammable, even in 1v1s

5. It has less power definitely, instead of shocking the opponent like in melee, it just hits them without electricity and doesn't send them nearly as far. Also, you can sweet spot the edge with it, because when you hit the edge you grab it right away, canceling out all the lag of the side-b.

6. He has more range definitely overall, his dsmash still has good range, everything seems to be more balanced out.

7. The only resemblance of Pichu is that Pikachu now has the blue goggles costume.

8. He's pretty floaty, he also dies a lot easier, in one of the FFAs I played, I had the most kills by far but way more deaths than everyone else. He seems to die the easiest of the demo characters.

9. He's pretty fast, although I was chasing after somebody, I think Peach, and the Peach was running the same speed. He's still pretty fast though, just not like Melee.

10. Nope, still has a lot of lag, not enough knockback, basically seems exactly like it was in Melee.

11. Every character can crawl, backwards and forwards, only use I could see for it would be mindgames.

12. I don't think he's smaller, I just think it's that everyone else is so much bigger in size, especially Samus.


Also I want to say that I think his uthrow in brawl has a set knockback, I'm not really 100% on this because I didn't get to try it out as much as I wanted, but I remember throwing someone up at 0% and at 50% and it had the same amount of knockback.

And about his Final Smash, I thought it really sucked because of how hard it is to control and it doesn't have enough knockback when you hit them with it, but you can press either 2 for the wiimote or B on the classic controller and it zaps everyone within a giant circle REALLY FAR! So it's definitely better than people thought at first.

 

[festizzio]

(sorry again for the double post, I don't know why edit post isn't working)


Pikachu asks "Is Pikachu good?"

HELL YEAH, he's soooooo much better in this game, his dsmash is ridiculous, thunder has ridiculous knockback when you hit them when they're above you, and even more when they're standing right next to you. I was below someone on the new yoshi's island and they were on the platform above me (they were at around 100-120%, I'm not sure which), I used thunder, and BAM, they're dead.

 

[Tagxy]

Just one more question on the up-b. Maybe you answered this already, but how fast does his lag end from his up b after hitting the ground compared to melee (ending on the ground, in the air, and next to the ground or whichever you know)?

Actually a question on the standard b, how is it? Essentially the same? Stronger, more knockback, less lag?

And the new final smash technique, does the zapper you found out about have good knockback or damage?

And how does his priority look/feel?

Btw I timed the final smash for pikachu and it lasts between 11-12 seconds.

Well a few complaints about pikachu:

1) I'm worried that he's slower, especially if he's only as fast as peach!
2) I'm also worried that he's a lighter character, he was already light and easy to kill in melee why would they make him even lighter? (And shouldnt that contradict him being slower too? You'd think lighter would equal faster)
3) Well it sucks that his forward b sucks even more than it did before when it already sucked, but I guess that's better than destroying a good move

Otherwise everything else sounds awesome, looking forward to the game!

 

[festizzio]

Just one more question on the up-b. Maybe you answered this already, but how fast does his lag end from his up b after hitting the ground compared to melee (ending on the ground, in the air, and next to the ground or whichever you know)?

Actually a question on the standard b, how is it? Essentially the same? Stronger, more knockback, less lag?

And the new final smash technique, does the zapper you found out about have good knockback or damage?

And how does his priority look/feel?

Btw I timed the final smash for pikachu and it lasts between 11-12 seconds.

Well a few complaints about pikachu:

1) I'm worried that he's slower, especially if he's only as fast as peach!
2) I'm also worried that he's a lighter character, he was already light and easy to kill in melee why would they make him even lighter? (And shouldnt that contradict him being slower too? You'd think lighter would equal faster)
3) Well it sucks that his forward b sucks even more than it did before when it already sucked, but I guess that's better than destroying a good move

Otherwise everything else sounds awesome, looking forward to the game!

Hmm I think I answered some of these questions already... >_>

I'll answer again though, don't worry. I love pikachu in brawl, so good. :D

1. His standard B move is exactly the same as melee, same lag, same knockback, same damage, same everything.

2. The zapper has HUGE knockback, kills at around 60-70% I believe.

3. Priority is excellent, on all of his aerials, most notably on his fair, dair, and uair.

And about him being slower, everyone is a LOT slower, so it doesn't really matter that he's slower. It certainly doesn't feel that way in comparison to other characters. And Peach is mainly the fastest character because she can play exactly how she does in melee, her aerials have 0 lag because of float canceling.

About his lightness, yeah it sucks.

 

[Nigachu]

So overall he sounds alot better than before which is great. So as long as he can still tail spike im happy.

 

[Tagxy]

Sorry for asking repetitive questions, sometimes I don't remember who said what and want to make sure I wasn't just seeing things.

Final question I promise, about the up b thing...i know you said the attack itself is quick, but in melee the lag after hitting the ground was terrible. Is that portion specifically faster or pretty much the same

Alright, now 3 praises for pikachu:

1. Definitely increased range will be an enormous advantage. Or rather his small range was such a terrible disadvantage im melee, I'm looking forward to being able to play with him now.
2. Sounds like a lot of his attacks are quicker, which is awesome (as they should be for an electric thingy).
3. Having more priority will also be a big advantage, especially for a character that uses his body a lot.

 

[festizzio]

It's about the same, maybe 1 or 2 frames slower but that's it. Every character's up b is really laggy after hitting the ground, so everybody's in the same boat.

 

[Zig-Zag!]

I am the happiest member on smashboards right now

 

[Tagxy]

Alright, you're probably going to hate me because I have another questin, but I know you didnt answer this one! (Feel free to tell me to shut up if I ask too many).

The Final Smash 2 zap move, how much damage does it do approximately? And if you use it does your final smash end? Or can you do it several times during your final smash?

 

[festizzio]

I'm not sure how much damage it does, maybe 20-30%? Also you can use it as many times as you want in your final smash. Think in terms of his ftilt on how long you have to wait before using it again. Yup, it's that fast. :D

 

[Tagxy]

festizzio and everyone else who contribute, just have to say you guys are awesome. While a lot of other people don't know much in the way of how well their characters will play, the pika players were able to get a good understanding of what we can expect in SSBB.

 

[FSLink]

How are Pikachu's throws besides down throw?
I'm not expecting it to be as godly as his SSB throws, but does his forward and back throws still suck as they did in Melee?

 

[Tagxy]

Theres apparently a glitch with pikachu's down b that causes 999% to himself and possibly those around him
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=121329&page=62

And pikachu's back throw was good, his forward throw ok sometimes. But throw's in general for everyone were weaker for melee over the original, can't expect that to change for brawl.

 

[Anther]

Pikachu has the best attack in the game XD.

 

[festizzio]

Pikachu's throws are weird, his dthrow is the same but since everyone's floatier you can sort of chaingrab with it. His uthrow seems to have a set knockback like ness's fthrow in melee. His bthrow is the same as it was in melee, almost exactly the same. His fthrow I never really got a chance to use, but I saw someone use it and it looked like he just threw them forward, there was no electricity like in Melee. I don't know if that's better or what, but it looked like it had more knockback. I still don't think it has KO potential though.

By the way, here's a video someone got of gameplay, the very beginning you can see how much **** pikachu's dsmash really is. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caR_UwlZXjs

 

[Tagxy]

Does his uthrow have combo potential? And why does his dthrow sort of chaingrab? What causes chaingrabs to fail?

Looks like his down smash really knocks you high as opposed to the side. Cool, that does kind of remind me of pichu but stronger.

 

[festizzio]

His dthrow sort of chaingrabs because you can only chaingrab them if they don't DI away. I think it'll be impossible to chaingrab people that DI away until we come up with a way to JC grabs again. I was thinking since his thunder is so powerful and comes out so quick, you could probably do uthrow to thunder and it would be just as good as Fox's uthrow to uair in melee. It really is almost that powerful.

 

[Nigachu]

I always wondered what his up throw could lead to and now I know.

So overall, is he a better character than he is in melee? That is all I want to know since everyone else generally asked all the other technical questions.

 

[T0MMY]

God tier:
Pikachu

***** by god tier tier:
Everyone but Pichu and peach!

Anally ***** by god tier and ***** by ***** by god tier tier:
Pichu
Peach

Silly Pikachu players...
Money Match? My Pichu vs your Pikachu?

 

[Zig-Zag!]

Silly Pikachu players...
Money Match? My Pichu vs your Pikachu?

If I was anywhere near oregon, I would mm the crap out of your pichu, tommy

 

[festizzio]

Silly Pikachu players...
Money Match? My Pichu vs your Pikachu?

Next time you're in Cali let's MM.

 

[Tagxy]

I have a melee pikachu question. Does pikachu's quick attack only have 16 directions? Or will it move based on even the slightest tilts in a certain direction?

 

[Vaseline]

First post!
Anyone here wants to move Pika to god tier?
No matter what other smashers think!
*Hugs Pikachu*

God tier:
Pikachu

***** by god tier tier:
Everyone but Pichu and peach!

Anally ***** by god tier and ***** by ***** by god tier tier:
Pichu
Peach

Don't forget to add Shiek to that list of "Anally ***** by god tier and ***** by ***** by god tier tier".

 

[Anther]

Pichu's Nair beats the crap out of Pikachu's nair :{

 

[N64]

I wanna play t0mmy!

 

[pikachun00b7]

Well n64, just believe and spread those wings and you will fly. Or Up B to t0mmy.

Also, I just read Gimpyfish's Pika update and LOL! Pikachu= new peach.

t0mmy, I accept.
Directions: Just use Skullbash, you will already arrive in my house.

 

[Tagxy]

Two more pika questions (sort of), what button do you usally press to short hop? x or y? I've never tried learning to short hop with anyone else and I know pika is really hard, but so far grazing my thumb over x quickly is the only way I seem to be able to do it with consistency (and easier to reach for a or the c-stick). But is there an advantage to using y such as an easier follow-up move or just in general?

Also, what is a super wave dash? And how do you do it? Is that where you QA horizontal and then diagnol down into the ground?

 

[Zig-Zag!]

Two more pika questions (sort of), what button do you usally press to short hop? x or y? I've never tried learning to short hop with anyone else and I know pika is really hard, but so far grazing my thumb over x quickly is the only way I seem to be able to do it with consistency (and easier to reach for a or the c-stick). But is there an advantage to using y such as an easier follow-up move or just in general?

Also, what is a super wave dash? And how do you do it? Is that where you QA horizontal and then diagnol down into the ground?

I almost always short hop with X, as far as I can tell.

A super wavedash is a useless maneuver that allows you to either waste metagame or effort in performing it, often times ending in unnecessary damage taken, accidental self destruct, and/or an increase in ***** size.

 

[Anther]

I actually used it while running from a Mario's fireball the other day, I shorthopped into a down to right QA, and while mashing down on the c-stick... It managed to stop right where he was and ... yah, Dsmashed him outta it. And it shouldn't lead to SD's because you're always facing the ledge, so you stop instead of sliding off =@.

And I don't agree.. any technique that makes your opponent go "what the hell was that?!" probably isn't a wasted move. At the very least vs Link because it's so easy against them. Plus adding anything to your list of things you can do nevr hurts.

Course.. it takes a bit of conscious thought, and opportunities to use it offensively are rare in most matchups. Doesn't make it the devil XD.

It works most consistently by quick attacking from the air into the ground, and then towards a projectile so that QA will clank with it. Then off you go.