• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

PikaaaaaaaZHUUUUUUUUUUU (Chu) vs Tanoto (Doc, Marth, Falcon, Fox). Help my Pikachu!!

TheZhuKeeper

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
2,908
Location
Philadelphia, PA
Here are the matches! He mains Falcon, Falco, Marth but he recently picked up Doc because he does better against my other characters and I thought Doc suited him. He doesn't really play anyone but me, so his style overall is really different from what most of you guys are used to.

Anyways, here are the vids! I'll probably label which ones are one sided / which ones are better for critiques.

Any advice is appreciated, yeahh Pika boards! =D

AXE get in here!! I love you


vs Tanoto (Doc)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESUeK6Ylf-Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DC-1tIYMB6k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NQHpytxIJI (**** LOL)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqGzCjMijuw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P73-SH7fcog
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvWQqunbQHM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s24TwxZBqmo (gave up =/ )

vs Tanoto (Falcon)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OQdJf2OzVM (he kinda gave up)

vs Tanoto (Marth)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJOQrWbxnlI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mj5hO70esWY

vs Tanoto (Fox)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYZZrsdMNEU (gave up at the end, I think first combo was cool =D)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y7kNqJyGcI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEdu24cl80g
 

TheZhuKeeper

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
2,908
Location
Philadelphia, PA
Yeah.

I've got uair oos timing, grab combos, recovery tricks, gimps, and some approaches down. I think I need more matchup / player diversity but so far... Pika fits me very well. At the very least, I think I like playing Pika more than Fox LOL, making him my second favorite character.

PIKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAZHUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
 

TheZhuKeeper

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
2,908
Location
Philadelphia, PA
can you do the up b ledge cancel trixies like axe can?
mmm I almost got the top platform ledgecancels down. It's just a matter of where you start the up B. I can do the double up B edgehog thing, where you up B from somewhere near the stage and grab it, although I'm not comfortable doing it in tight situations the way Axe does. I also like edgestalling with up B the way Fox / Falco do, I think it looks really cool LOL.

I still need to get used to recovery. I randomly point in the wrong direction or miss the sweetspot, gotta work on that LOL.

I miss the L cancel of uair / dair sometimes, but I've figured out their autocancel, which is especially nice with dair because of it's deceptive hitframe.

There are just alot of tricks / setups that I don't know about because I simply haven't played Pikachu enough, but I haven't had too much trouble with execution like I do with other characters.
 

Pink Reaper

Real Name No Gimmicks
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Messages
8,333
Location
In the Air, Using Up b as an offensive move
The BF one is right on the edge of where the octogon thing is in the middle of the stage(if that makes any sense)

There's also the DL64 edge cancel which is done from the ledge(Drop down, Up B Up->Right/Left)

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK now I really want to go to TP 5 so we can Pikachu Ditto LOL
 

AXE 09

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 3, 2006
Messages
3,825
Location
Avondale, AZ
*jaw drops to the floor*

WWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!! WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ZHUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OMFG!!!!! Zhu.... WOWOWOWOWOW THIS JUST MADE MY MONTH!!!!

Zhu picking up PIKACHU?!?!?!?!!?? =D

Wow.... Just... Omg I can't believe this. I'm literally sheding tears of joy right now. 2 FALCO/PIKA PLAYERS?!?!?!?!? WTF!!!!

Zhu omg.... This is absolutely incredible. I don't even know what to say right now. Zhu, if I could give you 1000000000000000 hugs right now, I would
 

INSANE CARZY GUY

Banned via Warnings
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
6,915
Location
Indianapolis
hmm, a lot of pikachu love lately.

pikachu seems to get more falco players

pichu gets fox/ ice climber players

ic/falco/fox are all sheik counters(best ones anyways(puff isn't real))

falco's love them combos and don't get the same trills out of grabs like fox/ice climbers why they may be happy with pikachu's grabs and ics go for pichu.

hmm who else randomly picks up pikachu?
 

TheZhuKeeper

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
2,908
Location
Philadelphia, PA
Here come the vids, I hope these make you guys happy =)

Critiques all day! I'm gonna list which matches were one sided / screwing around / good representation of actual gameplay (these are better for critique obviously).

But yeah, I'm working really hard at making this work so any help would be appreciated!
 

tdk_Samurai

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 20, 2009
Messages
774
Location
Springfield, IL
that pika was mad cute, so glad you decided to be a cool kid zhu

from watching your vids some things I could think of:

you ledgejump fair alot, I used to do this alot to and still kinda do. But its pretty punishable, IMHO I would switch the ledgehop fair into a uair one, more so a ledge drop ump uair, and try and catch them with the hit box that will send them behind you and off the stage, I feel its less punishable, and it gets you in a better situation rather than 4 damage.

Nice Up B usage man, already got ledge and edge cancleing solid it seems, Constency can always be worked on, but I honestly didn't expect you to be doing so well with the up b as fast as you are.

You really like your tailspikes. And tailspikes are amazing, but it seems every one that is new to pika thinks the pika flow chart goes everything > tailspike, which doesn't work because everyone you face is gonna be watching for it, I mean certain situations definitely call for it, but you need something to happen, I would not just try and chase someone whos off the stage and spike them outa nowhere, pika has much safer options, they may not lead to a kill everytime, but you seemed to get punished for going for it so much.

It seems your mindset for comboing in and out of nair is pretty solid, I didn't expect to see you using nair into upsmash/uair, but you got that already, good ****.

I saw a few uair into uairs, I should be seeing none, try and get that nair instead of a 2nd uair


thats about all I noticed from watching half, I'll watch more later. And I guess thats a little something to tide you over till axe gets in here, stay sexy
 

TheZhuKeeper

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
2,908
Location
Philadelphia, PA
that pika was mad cute, so glad you decided to be a cool kid zhu

from watching your vids some things I could think of:

you ledgejump fair alot, I used to do this alot to and still kinda do. But its pretty punishable, IMHO I would switch the ledgehop fair into a uair one, more so a ledge drop ump uair, and try and catch them with the hit box that will send them behind you and off the stage, I feel its less punishable, and it gets you in a better situation rather than 4 damage.

Nice Up B usage man, already got ledge and edge cancleing solid it seems, Constency can always be worked on, but I honestly didn't expect you to be doing so well with the up b as fast as you are.

You really like your tailspikes. And tailspikes are amazing, but it seems every one that is new to pika thinks the pika flow chart goes everything > tailspike, which doesn't work because everyone you face is gonna be watching for it, I mean certain situations definitely call for it, but you need something to happen, I would not just try and chase someone whos off the stage and spike them outa nowhere, pika has much safer options, they may not lead to a kill everytime, but you seemed to get punished for going for it so much.

It seems your mindset for comboing in and out of nair is pretty solid, I didn't expect to see you using nair into upsmash/uair, but you got that already, good ****.

I saw a few uair into uairs, I should be seeing none, try and get that nair instead of a 2nd uair

thats about all I noticed from watching half, I'll watch more later. And I guess thats a little something to tide you over till axe gets in here, stay sexy
wow thanks, that's alot of useful stuff!

for now, I'm just trying my best to be reckless / "creative" as I'm still getting used to Pika. I do remember Axe / other Pikas using ledgehop uair and hitting with the end, as it hits them off / has a deceptive hitbox so I'll try that out. I'm not so sure about uair -> nair instead of uair -> uair, I personally would rather keep someone in the air and give up damage instead of hitting them / letting them down (unless you were talking about high %).

I'm going to a tourny tomorrow and I'll be playing more people there, so I'll try to record me getting ***** so there's more to critique on.

but yeah, thanks again! I'll keep working on it =)
 

AXE 09

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 3, 2006
Messages
3,825
Location
Avondale, AZ
PikaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaZHUUUUUUUUU! XD

Omg Tai's so upset that there's another pika player lol! I LOVE it XD

Ok ok ok.... so I'm not sure how much I'll be able to help out, but... here goes lol


Against Doc:
This is one of Pika's hardest matchups. I honestly don't have much experience with it, but as for a few things that I've noticed... One really good thing to do is upward angled Ftilts. Pikachu's Ftilt has very good priority. I saw that you were having a bit of trouble with his pills, and I think that your answer is Ftilting them instead of blocking. Many times, trying to block a pill with pika will result in a shield stab (which we all should be used to by now *sadface*), so I feel that ftilting them is a better option. You have AMAZING tailspikes! You REALLY have that down. You seem to know exactly where it is lol. As for edgeguarding, Please remember that a downward angled Ftilt is probably his best edgeguarding technique. Sometimes against Doc though, this can trade. But if it doesn't trade, right after you hit the Ftilt, he's in perfect position for a dropzone Dair. If he eventually sees this coming every time, you can simply charge an Fsmash if he tries to immediately up-b again. Main point: Try more upwards angled Ftilts on stage for his pills, and just to shut down his approaches. Edgeguarding with downward angled Ftilts are great, as long as they don't trade with his up-b.

For Marth:
I personally love this matchup =)
The approach that I probably use the most in this matchup... is Dtilt. Approaching with a running Dtilt is SO good in this matchup, believe me. You can do Dtilt -> Grab/Nair/Retreating full jump thunder jolt as a safe approach. Pikachu's Dtilts are very fast, and most marth players that I play against don't react fast enough to shield grab the Dtilt if you just do another Dtilt right after. Another good thing to do: SH Uair. The deceptive range will hit your opponent a lot of the time. If you hit him with the tip of your tail, you can run backwards and Usmash as a combo, Run backwards and grab, or if he DI's very far behind you, you can techchase him.
As far as grabs go... here's what I love doing the most: If you Uthrow Marth at low-mid% and he DI's fully either left or right (which most Marth players will), you can do running SH Tailspike -> Usmash/Regrab. Or, if you guys are by an edge and he DIs off the edge (this is my most favorite 0 to death) You can do running SH tailspike -> double jump Tailspike, then sweetspot the edge. After that, here's the last thing: If you up-b either Horizontally or Diagonally downwards, then back in the opposite direction to grab the edge again, and you hit Marth with it, it'll literally stop all of his momentum so his Forward B won't send him anywhere anymore, and there's your 0 to death. I've gotten this countless times against Marth :)
One last thing about edgeguarding him: Ledge attack works AMAZINGLY well against him (if you're below 100%). If you're grabbing the edge, and you're not sure if he's gonna Up-b onto the stage, or wait to up-b so he can grab the edge once you get off, just ledge attack! If he tries to sweetspot, it won't allow him to grab the edge. You have the edge for so deceptively long, it's ridiculous (it's kinda like Bowser's and Peach's ledge attack. You think you can grab the edge, but then you'll still miss). The second thing: If they up-b early to try to get on the stage, your ledge attack will hit them backwards even when it seems like it shouldn't. After you hit them, simply WD backwards to grab the edge again, and ledge attack again. Rinse and repeat until they're dead :)

Against Fox:
One thing that's important to understand is when you can get out of shield pressure (which I know that you already know, considering your amazing falco lol). Pikachu works AWESOME against those Fox players who like to shield pressure by doing Shine -> Full Jump Nair/Dair/Uair -> Shine -> Repeat. Whether they're attacking the front or the back of your shield, all you need to do is Full Jump Uair OOS right after the shine hits your shield. BAM! You will usually hit them upwards, which means you can easily start a combo with this. It's amazing! However, against those fox players who like to SH instead of full jump for their shield pressure, you're more limited, because it'll only work if they're pressuring their shield behind you. If they're in front of you, sad to say, there's not much you can do.
As an approach, running Dtilts and SH Uairs are actually good alternatives for SH Nair. I personally use running Dtilts the most. Also, in this particular matchup, running Dsmashes are good against those fox players who love to DD a lot. They will normally attack when they see that your movement has stopped, but then they'll get caught in the Dsmash. Dsmash is awesome because it'll beat Fox's SH Nair approach. Be careful with this though. If they read you, it's obviously not good, but it's amazing otherwise.
I noticed that for the most part, from the ledge, you'll either ledge hop -> Fair or waveland. Wavelanding is obviously amazing from the edge. Pikachu can keep his invincibility and be able to do something (Usmash, block, etc.) before the invincibility ends (Just like Fox and Falco can). This is what I usually do the most, but you have to do it extremely fast. Fair, on the other hand, isn't exactly that reliable... Sadly, it's pretty punishable. As stated by Samurai, Ledgehop Uair is awesome! Especially if they're somewhat close to the edge. You'll most likely hit them with the tip of your tail, meaning they'll be sent behind you off the ledge and you'll be in the offensive position. Plus, you can easily double jump Uair and grab the edge again. You can also do this with Nair. I would say your best options from the edge are either Wavelanding or doing a Ledgehopped Uair (either landing on the stage or re-grabbing the edge).

Something that I can rarely pull off, but I KNOW that you can do it because I've seen you do similar things:
Shai drop -> retreating Uair. Omg this is awesome, but I can't shai drop very well lol. I know you can though, so maybe this can be another addition to how unique your Pikachu is :) Hitting someone with the tip of your tail is sooooo good. You can either techchase or combo out of it. I usually go for the Usmash combo.

Anyways, your Pikachu is looking very cute so far :) Keep it up Zhu!!! =D I hope that I was able to help lol. Not sure if I did, but I tried :p
 

VGmasta

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 6, 2008
Messages
1,252
Location
West Palm Beach, FL + the Doc Boards!!
Wow, another PikaFalco user besides Axe?! Zhu's pika's lookin' nice.

I only watched the Doc matches. You already got the Doc matchup down pretty well. Gettin' Doc above Pika is the idea of the matchup. Doc gets juggled pretty badly by up-airs from Pika. That Doc player needed more f-tilts, up-airs, and n-airs on his approaches though. He kept trying to beat Pika's aerial approaches and spacing with predictable f-airs. It got him comboed a lot of the time. He also wasted his air-jump on his recovery wayy too often, which got really predictable. Pika's up-air pretty much ***** predictable recovery.

As for the pills, just jump over the standing pills and run under/back away from full hopped/FH pills. Usually if Tanoto threw one pills, he followed it with more pills. If you ever predict him to FH a pill, just run under it and punish. Jumping over a standing pill towards Doc closes space and maybe even puts him in shield if you're fast enough.

Zhu (Chu) vs Tanoto (Doc) 10:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NQHpytxIJI
Around 1:20, I saw Pika n-air(?) through two pills and hit Doc. That was entirely new to me. Never seen that before from Pikachu's n-air (or whatever aerial that was). I hope that doesn't work for Doc's sake. But if it does work, that'd definitely something useful for you Pika players.
 

INSANE CARZY GUY

Banned via Warnings
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
6,915
Location
Indianapolis
I saw one of the marth matches were you down-threw can he air-dodged out, as pichu I use that as a way to see how much they know about the match-up and how much I can abuse. As pikachu it's easier to get out of marth and other non-FFers. if they jump out then only up-throw/b-throw never f-throw.
 

Tee ay eye

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
5,635
Location
AZ
For Marth:
I personally love this matchup =)
i hate you :laugh:


I've gotten this countless times against Marth Tai :)
One last thing about edgeguarding him: Ledge attack works AMAZINGLY well against him (if you're below 100%). If you're grabbing the edge, and you're not sure if he's gonna Up-b onto the stage, or wait to up-b so he can grab the edge once you get off, just ledge attack! If he tries to sweetspot, it won't allow him to grab the edge. You have the edge for so deceptively long, it's ridiculous (it's kinda like Bowser's and Peach's ledge attack. You think you can grab the edge, but then you'll still miss). The second thing: If they up-b early to try to get on the stage, your ledge attack will hit them backwards even when it seems like it shouldn't. After you hit them, simply WD backwards to grab the edge again, and ledge attack again. Rinse and repeat until they're Tai is dead :)

Pikachu's Dtilts are very fast, and most marth players that I play against don't Tai doesn't react fast enough to shield grab the Dtilt if you just do another Dtilt right after.
God **** it.
 
Top Bottom