KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
Don't listen to the lies!
Pikachu >>>> Snake.
Pikachu >>>> Snake.
-
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Pika Q&A/FAQ Thread: Ask a Quick Question, Get a Quick Answer!
- Thread starter Pikabunz
- Start date
gallax
Smash Hero
pikachu is for people who like to spam jolts and chaingrab. pikachu is not for people who feel that they should approach. the only pikas that approach are esam and anther. so if you feel that you will do better in brawl by shooting thunderjolts around and doing CG's on the cast then go for it.
snake is for people who always want to be doing something. setting up traps. predicting shields and spotdodges. and then from there punishing mistakes while being able to make at least a few mistakes and not paying to heavily for it(unless its DDD/mk/marth youre fighting)
bigman40
Smash Master
KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
Cool story bro.
This is the Pikachu forum, so please take your Snake campaigning elsewhere.
Thanks.
This is the Pikachu forum, so please take your Snake campaigning elsewhere.
Thanks.
Ok question, I know pika, isnt really the "approching" type, but while playing agaist olimar, doesnt pika need to approch? Since Oli, out camps pika? i know that n-air, and f-air are the best airels to approch, What should i do while facing oli's?
KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
Generally, you want to keep Olimar in one of two places: in the air and off the stage. Throwing and utilting him (possibly out of an fair) are your best bets for getting him in one of these positions, at which point you can start to juggle and punish his landings.
Approaching with nair can work, but I'd be wary of doing it too often since the landing lag will leave you extremely vulnerable if he blocks. That pretty much goes for any approach, though. x.x!
Try to keep a tjolt out in front of you to keep him doubly occupied with blocking the jolt and dealing with your approach. Pika can't outcamp Olimar, but having a jolt on the ground can give you an opening -- and it's much better than just trying to rush in. (EDIT: Never tjolt near Olimar's range, of course, since tjolt has lots of cooldown lag.)
I usually nair to get pikmin off. It stales your nair, unfortunately, so it won't be as useful for killing..... but it's the fastest, easiest, and safest way to get them off, imo. In some cases, I say "**** the pikmin" and keep approaching if I see an opening that would be wasted if I stopped to hit the pikmin off.
Olimar is a ***** of a MU. Definitely in his favor. Good luck!
(Maybe Stealth will come in with some advice..... he probably has the most Oli experience out of all of us.)
Approaching with nair can work, but I'd be wary of doing it too often since the landing lag will leave you extremely vulnerable if he blocks. That pretty much goes for any approach, though. x.x!
Try to keep a tjolt out in front of you to keep him doubly occupied with blocking the jolt and dealing with your approach. Pika can't outcamp Olimar, but having a jolt on the ground can give you an opening -- and it's much better than just trying to rush in. (EDIT: Never tjolt near Olimar's range, of course, since tjolt has lots of cooldown lag.)
I usually nair to get pikmin off. It stales your nair, unfortunately, so it won't be as useful for killing..... but it's the fastest, easiest, and safest way to get them off, imo. In some cases, I say "**** the pikmin" and keep approaching if I see an opening that would be wasted if I stopped to hit the pikmin off.
Olimar is a ***** of a MU. Definitely in his favor. Good luck!
(Maybe Stealth will come in with some advice..... he probably has the most Oli experience out of all of us.)
Legendary Pikachu
Smash Ace
Man... the No. 2 PR in NC is an olimar, and he's regarded as one of top 10 olimars in the region.
My thoughts.... unless you can read the olimar's movements, don't approach until the pikmin do more than 34 damage on you (that said... DONT take pikmin damage on purpose either). That way, even a white/yellow>d-throw won't combo anymore.
ALWAYS jump out of d-throw grab combo's (if you can't read the olimar) even if he tags you with up-smash, taking the u-smash and finding aerial QaC breathing room BEATS airdodging and getting techchased grabbed/shieldgrabbed/and pivotgrabbed that leaves you in the same d-throw scenario anyway (after you lose your 2nd jump, some olimars are good enough to techchase grab you so you won't get a 2nd jump back, if you mess up your spacing O_O).
Olimar's grabs at point blank has a blind spot (if olimar's shield takes even ONE hit, he slides far enough back to be able to grab you, I mean POINT BLANK--luigi fire kissing distance... still something good to know [d-smash/u-smash ^_^]).
Perfect your thunder guards> position yourself slightly below an approaching olimar so that T1 will hit (sending him up/away for another repeat or kill) and T2 WILL hit also if olimar whistles the first one. Anytime i've ever landed these against olimars which KILLS, its a guarenteed win (no more damage pressure, just bank or take your time, depending on how 'gay' the olimar is or how 'gay' you want to be ^_^). Stealth should have great wisdom in thundering olimars... ^_^
ALWAYS QaC when olimar is under you if you can't read the olimar (or if he has a buttload of yellows). Some aerials will pierce, but its always a gamble if you can't read the olimar.
ALWAY n-air the yellows... u-smash/u-tilt them if you have to. (Don't just get YELLOWS off, freakin KILL THEM! >:O) That's just my deep opinion cuz i hate those evil little boogers to death. Remember what moves you diminish when killing yellow, cuz that's the move that'll become your sole yellow killer. F-air will do NOTHING to yellows, and it will just lag you (even when landing O_O and QaC'ing). Yellows have larger hitbox, great hitstun, and go through ALL electic attacks (dsmash, f-smash, d-air, f-air, t-jolts, thunder, thunder2, QA)--they don't even come off of you and block/truck through t-jolts. Use f-air for ALL the others (every color except yellow). In the long run, if any of you playing campier pika's and aren't comfortable with reading oli's, YOU MUST REMEMBER TO DO THIS, OTHERWISE, YOU'RE DEAD--you'd be surprise how FAST your killing moves all get diminished if you don't keep track. My advice, just get good at reading olimars--that's far more productive (yet its easier said than done... ^_^).
B-airs are sweet against olimar on platforms and offstage if you aren't thunder savvy.
While normally i don't care about stages against most people (even against MK and Marth), If you are stuck on a platform stage against olimar, ALWAY take advantage of it! One olimar u-smash even 7-10 of those is child-play damage when compared to being swarmed by stupid pikmin. Plus, if you bait olimars to u-smash you, that's you not worrying about approaching/getting comboed as easily/getting grab *****.On a platform stage, a good sniping pikachu (me for example) CAN outcamp olimars easily with aid of good QaC stuff--it's as boring and stupid as he** for both players, but all the olimars that have faced me absolutely fear/hate my "aggravated sniper mode" on a platform stage ^_^
All else that kaylo says applies. Just thought i'd add my personal experience in this matchup.
Other sidenotes: t-jolt the area in FRONT of olimar IF he rushes his shield at you (NOT at olimar and NOT within the distance he can run>powershield into an AERIAL thunderjolt. Always use arc against olimars if can be helped and always full hop them if you decide to use t-jolts at all so poweshielding is harder.
*Olimar has the 2nd/3rd/ if not the FARTHEST roll of ALL the characters in the game. REMEMBER THAT when techchasing your grabs or u-smash, or you'll miss and get owned*
EDIT:
OH... i apologize if I don't have enough new 'winning footage' against the PR olimar online, but he sort of has a short temper and requests me not record matches where he just gets 'unlucky' *cough* cough* which is apparently ALL of the matches where I win. Also, we haven't had the priveledge of facing in singles bracket yet (but i owned him early in doubles sets ^_^). I hope to get more vids up.
KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
Tech chasing Olimar is too good, though, if you can get him to miss a tech....... his tech roll is dumb slow.
Legendary Pikachu
Smash Ace
double post sorta.... I am so sorry.... delete this if you want. FORGIVE ME T_T....
one thing that pisses me off the most is that you can barley tell the differece betwwen oli's movments when hes ether fsmashing, or grabbing, and when hes charging a smash you cant reallly tell which one it iss, i know that its RERALLLLY easy to gimp oli,
but how can you tell the difference between his fsmash and grab?
but how can you tell the difference between his fsmash and grab?
IxxI
Smash Fence
Well, when they FSmash the pikmin kinda "flop" down. When he grabs, they just walk in front of him.
TheVince
Smash Apprentice
When fighting Oli, approach with shield. And immediately spot dodge.
i never noticed thattt,
ill make shure ill look for that when fightingg, thankss.
now, how to i get close to oli?
my main problem is grabbing, and his d-smash
Legendary Pikachu
Smash Ace
About the d-smash, if you read it right, that's a free t-jolt (6-9 damage?) or a f-air>u-tilt>juggle chance. Make most use of it. Try anther's casual approach of full hopping>airdodge towards olimar's backside>buffer a pivot grab if you jump over his d-smash. If he has no yellow pikmin and you can space right, a fast-falled aerial will overcome most of his pikmin color u-smashes at times (yes, believe in yourself....). So against d-smash, start jumping some more... pikachu can deal with u-smash sometimes better than d-smash any day. If u-smash will kill you, d-smash will almost always kill you also if you miss the tech (but then olimar's start techchasing grab :/). Just jump if d-smash is giving you trouble. remember if you shield a d-smash, if you don't slide or lag too far/much, olimar does have a decent amount of lag/cooldown on his d-smash... rush him.
As for more general approaching, be somewhat far away (within his pikmin throw's reach), and READ when he SH and throws pikmin fowards. If you make a dash right as olimar pikmin throws, cover as MUCH distance as you can and pullout your shield as olimar is about to land (he can f-air right after pikmin throw). Do an u-smash out of shield or grab and followup with a combo or juggle. Try mixing up u-smash, grabs, run past his landing spot pivot grab to make sure olimar doesn't get your timing. For me, this is the most reliable way of closing in the distance cuz most olimar's spam and few toss>f-air; if they start doing that, dash shield the f-air and shieldgrab.
If the olimar is grounded when he does pikmin throw, then get way on top of platforms and close in on those keeping in mind u-smashes and up-b (when you have high damage). If you have no platforms, then that is the worse situation for you in terms of approaching (not impossible, but often the worse case). You'll have to rush on foot, add some short hop> airdodges, and when you get within olimar's grabbing distance start retreating and see what he does. If he tries to grab rush, then go aerial and try to f-air drop>u-tilt juggle. If he continues to throw (on ground) rush through and grab>throw>juggle or u-smash if you want. If he continues to throw in the air, then read the instant before he jumps and run in front of him before he is totally airborne. If he starts f-smashing, toss in an aerial t-jolt towards the ground point blank in front of olimar (f-smash rarely block it at that point, and the t-jolt arc version is harder to powershield. Or if you are good, Powershield the f-smash and rush. If he has a lot of yellow pikmin, bait pikmin throws and kill the yellow ones first before approaching.
It really comes down to reading the olimar... when he'll throw a pikmin, if he jumps, if he rolls, grabs or smashes. Olimar actually has a harder time approaching pikachu than most people think. If you can (somehow... you must be good... or a coward... whichever works), keep youself from getting hurt by pikmin and jolt/damage the olimar more than you. Against really good olimars, if you are not using a broken character, planking is really the only "surefire" way of beating olimars by most of my friends standards. Its up to you to make what is what in the situation. Best of luck ^_^.
*Get close to him, make him squeal, make him squirm. Make sure he never uses those rubber chickens against you ever again >:D*
KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
LDPK is the ****.
No, seriously, I love your detailed answers to everything, lol, you're not on that lazy stuff and I <3 you for that.
No, seriously, I love your detailed answers to everything, lol, you're not on that lazy stuff and I <3 you for that.
IxxI
Smash Fence
Do you still love me for being one of the lazy ones?
KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
HELL NAW!!!
Nah, just kiddin, you wore a dress for Kenny, you're like part of the family now. My son-in-law, if you will.
Legendary Pikachu
Smash Ace
Oh... its just... i have a personal vendetta against Olimar in particular >:O. Having other pika's beat the crap outta Olimar wannabe's will make me feel better. :D
It's a totally different story personally fighting against people like NC-echo, Fino, plasmapikmin, and similar others. If you land everything as planned against any one of these guys... you'll be good to go ^_^.
thanks guys, im going to try all thisss when i go up agaist draco again, lol thanks Legendary pikachu for your long detailed advice lol,
now if he gets a yellow pikmin on me, do i want to n-nair or up air? n-air is a great kill move, but agaist oli, you want to have a fresh juggleing move..so which do you preferr i use?
now if he gets a yellow pikmin on me, do i want to n-nair or up air? n-air is a great kill move, but agaist oli, you want to have a fresh juggleing move..so which do you preferr i use?
Legendary Pikachu
Smash Ace
well... just cuz i hate yellow pikmin and n-air will do a better job at killing them, i just n-air.... heck, if olimar is far enough away, i'd probably u-smash if its yellow pikmin (to guarentee i kill them in one shot >:O).
U-air can't really get all the yellow pikmin off of you (sometimes they stick to your bellyside or on your lower front), if you have time to notice how they stick to you, u-air is better since you don't need it to kill anyways.
N-air will always get them off for sure. HOnestly its up to you, how much do you hate yellow pikmin? I hate them far too much. I rely on my aerials for juggling and offstage gimping and thunders for killing olimars mostly, so i can manage with a diminished n-air at times. Remember, there are other ways you can refresh n-air REAL quick. Each jab of pikachu refreshes the n-air. So all you have to do is like land 9'ish jabs against olimar up close (probably near ledge to knock olimar off which takes like... 1.2 seconds ^_^) to make n-air full power again. Remember, that landing ANY one move (including t-jolts) on latched or non-latched pikmin counts as hitting a living target which refreshes your other moves (including n-air) also. Not enough pikachu's take advantage of this when they can.
Other attacks you can try are jabs, u-tilt, f-tilt, b-air if you want. It depends on your playstyle and situation at that point.
Against other color pikmin, I just attack them with some other move (f-air/u-air) to refresh my n-air and kill pikmin at the same time. Also if its other color pikmin, your grab>pummel will unstick most pikmin as you shock the living daylights out of olimar. A rush>u-smash will also unstick pikmin as you hit olimar also. That's why it's important to read olimar's pikmin throw, cuz if you read right you kill two birds with one stone. After a while of getting used to killing pikmin, it really becomes an art.
In short, I try deathly hard to not get stuck with ANY pikmin as i fight against olimar (with exception of yellows). I bait yellow to kill them (since i am not worried about thier latch damage, i'm worried about their smash priority against pikachu). Other than that, I dread the rest like deadly poison--literally, they kinda are O_O.
U-air can't really get all the yellow pikmin off of you (sometimes they stick to your bellyside or on your lower front), if you have time to notice how they stick to you, u-air is better since you don't need it to kill anyways.
N-air will always get them off for sure. HOnestly its up to you, how much do you hate yellow pikmin? I hate them far too much. I rely on my aerials for juggling and offstage gimping and thunders for killing olimars mostly, so i can manage with a diminished n-air at times. Remember, there are other ways you can refresh n-air REAL quick. Each jab of pikachu refreshes the n-air. So all you have to do is like land 9'ish jabs against olimar up close (probably near ledge to knock olimar off which takes like... 1.2 seconds ^_^) to make n-air full power again. Remember, that landing ANY one move (including t-jolts) on latched or non-latched pikmin counts as hitting a living target which refreshes your other moves (including n-air) also. Not enough pikachu's take advantage of this when they can.
Other attacks you can try are jabs, u-tilt, f-tilt, b-air if you want. It depends on your playstyle and situation at that point.
Against other color pikmin, I just attack them with some other move (f-air/u-air) to refresh my n-air and kill pikmin at the same time. Also if its other color pikmin, your grab>pummel will unstick most pikmin as you shock the living daylights out of olimar. A rush>u-smash will also unstick pikmin as you hit olimar also. That's why it's important to read olimar's pikmin throw, cuz if you read right you kill two birds with one stone. After a while of getting used to killing pikmin, it really becomes an art.
In short, I try deathly hard to not get stuck with ANY pikmin as i fight against olimar (with exception of yellows). I bait yellow to kill them (since i am not worried about thier latch damage, i'm worried about their smash priority against pikachu). Other than that, I dread the rest like deadly poison--literally, they kinda are O_O.
Legendary Pikachu
Smash Ace
Um... yea... but d-air won't kill yellow pikmin at all (not even get them off of you). If you mean using it to kill other color pikmin, that does work, but from my experience i do have to caution you. Depending on how many pikmin are latched onto you, your d-air will be lagged a little bit for each pikmin you hit. You'll still be able to autocancel since you are not lagged vertically, but you are sort of "suspended in mid-air" for a little longer than normal, which screws me over against the olimars i face--they can space with a few more milliseconds while you are lagging which means EVERYTHING when fighting a good olimar. Your buffering could also be messed up because of the splitsecond lag you weren't expecting.
On anothe hand, you could use the lag to your advantage since the hitbox remains out longer, but I do repeat STAY CAUTIOUS when deciding to d-air autocancel approach.
Legendary Pikachu
Smash Ace
I'll be happy to critique. ^_^
Go on right ahead. Be sure to post it in critique thread.
thanks so much=].
after im done with my chores, most likely I'll be going back over to his house and record the matches, and if all goes according to plan the video will be up by tonight=]
now which is better? videos of me losing or wining?
after im done with my chores, most likely I'll be going back over to his house and record the matches, and if all goes according to plan the video will be up by tonight=]
now which is better? videos of me losing or wining?
KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
Generally, vids of you losing are better, but if you have a bunch, might as well post 'em all.
Jupz
Smash Master
Whats the best way to play the snake matchup?
KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
Camp smart, CG, edgeguard.
And try not to get blown up.
Um. Yeaaaaah, too lazy to type more details atm. x.x
@jupz
first off you need to learn how to buffer the d-throw chain grab, being able to do so makes the match-up 50-50. If you dont know how to do this, it becomes something like 65-35, or something like that,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xp79na4878&feature=channel_page
this video (by esam) shows you how to do the bufferchain grab.
PRATICE!
Another thing to know is that Snake can use his genades to get out of the d-throw chain grab.
so what to do?
f-throw him to the edge and then start using the d-throw CG
this way, he pulls one out, it just falls off the stage xD
also watch out for his u-tilt and f-tilt,
u-tilt kills pikachu at about 100,
and f-tilt does like 20 some ****ge with both hits,
and yea what he said
DONT GET BLOWN UP.
also, when snake is recovering, if he is above you while he is doing his up b.
THUNDER THUNDER THUNDER
if hes useing it at about stage leave,
and hes still holding on to the thingy he uses for his up b(sorrry dont know what its called)
get him with a smash,
its basicly a free hit.
thats about all you need to know about the pikachu-snake match-up.
first off you need to learn how to buffer the d-throw chain grab, being able to do so makes the match-up 50-50. If you dont know how to do this, it becomes something like 65-35, or something like that,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xp79na4878&feature=channel_page
this video (by esam) shows you how to do the bufferchain grab.
PRATICE!
Another thing to know is that Snake can use his genades to get out of the d-throw chain grab.
so what to do?
f-throw him to the edge and then start using the d-throw CG
this way, he pulls one out, it just falls off the stage xD
also watch out for his u-tilt and f-tilt,
u-tilt kills pikachu at about 100,
and f-tilt does like 20 some ****ge with both hits,
and yea what he said
DONT GET BLOWN UP.
also, when snake is recovering, if he is above you while he is doing his up b.
THUNDER THUNDER THUNDER
if hes useing it at about stage leave,
and hes still holding on to the thingy he uses for his up b(sorrry dont know what its called)
get him with a smash,
its basicly a free hit.
thats about all you need to know about the pikachu-snake match-up.
KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
-_-
I is girl!
Without the CG, the MU isn't that bad, imo. A bit more in Snake's favor, but he's still heavy enough to get decently combo'd, although then you have to worry about grenades blowing you up every god**** second.
I like using Pika's camp game against Snake in particular to create openings. Without tjolt, Snake pretty much shuts down all of our approaches, but with smart camping, you can get inside his defenses without too much trouble. It's not enough to force an approach, but it's enough to get in there.
KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
Nope, banned for life. *click*
Jk, it's all good.
lol seriously tho sorrry xDNope, banned for life. *click*
Jk, it's all good.
Jupz
Smash Master
Thanks kaylo and punk. I never knew kaylo was a girl lol.
if you have anymore snake questions, ill be here=]
amd im shure Kaylo will be here too:D
altairian
Smash Lord
we can dthrow CG fox to over 100% and there's a couple kill followups to it if they DI wrong. Even without the CG it's a little in our favor so yeah >_>
IxxI
Smash Fence
Thunder is supposed to **** Snake if you're smart. Some Snakes, me, will bait you into thundering while I'm falling down before using the cypher. If they do that, predict and Nair. If they plan on recovering fromt he top, predict where they are going to airdodge and thunder there. There should be enough time in the attack for it to hit.