pick yur poison | ovah

[JeXs]

Don't believe it yet. Need to see more players post first.

let him live first. if he is still alive on day 4 with not a single clear then we lynch him

 

[ranmaru]

nah

i'm not confident on gheb right now

and day 4 is too ****ing late wtf

also gotta consider scum not giving weak doc at all for (?) reasons. That way no one will have reason to CC and they can fake claim willy nilly.

 

[Dooms]

let him live first. if he is still alive on day 4 with not a single clear then we lynch him

>day4

Okay.

 

[JeXs]

nah

i'm not confident on gheb right now

and day 4 is too ****ing late wtf

also gotta consider scum not giving weak doc at all for (?) reasons. That way no one will have reason to CC and they can fake claim willy nilly.

>day4

Okay.

2 shot rb

 

[ranmaru]

Nah. Takes too long and he won't be able to verify his results to us. Also too long to wait for him to die to 'clear' someone.

 

[JeXs]

at the very least let him live today lol

 

[ranmaru]

Thinking about it, nah. Looking at dayplay. I think we have to focus on that in this game. Scum know what roles they gave us yet we can't even guess what role we were given, so it's like an open setup for them and a semi-open setup for us, since scum can see the discussion of what to vote during the day.

Do you think his push on me and you was town minded?

 

[JeXs]

ok **** claims i guess

 

[JeXs]

revote later after i see more

 

[ranmaru]

Deff interested in what others have to say.

I also think we may have to mass claim D3. Possibly. If we get two scum by then we might not need to though.

 

[Dooms]

Lmao at Ranmaru tryin to seal the deal without letting discussion flow.

Tag me if you need me I guess. Or lynch me. Either works.

 

[ranmaru]

@ Dooms

I'm not? I said I'm interested in what others have to say and I'm not rushing people to vote you.

Also, why did you vote for Vengeful if you are weakdoc?

Finally, who would you compromise lynch if we had to? If you had to choose from an inactive, who would you choose? Thanks.

 

[Alakaslam]

Alakaslam, what animal do you think I am? Why?
Red Ryu, opinion of Jay's sudden switch?

You are a seagull.

 

[Alakaslam]

i kinda want to say **** claims but im scum giving us a weak doc is quite likely
@ Alakaslam
what do u think?

Claiming is bad I agree.

Please don't play like ****. If you are blue, congrats you die soon, if you are faking, I don't care what noble purpose you think it serves you are confusing town.

 

[Alakaslam]

Oh Joey claim makes sense though.

If you are close to lynched claim so town can more likely hit scum.

 

[Alakaslam]

If scum it is obvious why to claim but I still think unseen

 

[ranmaru]

To clarify, whenever Alakaslam refers to a person as 'blue' he means a person who'd flip as a pr. On omgus pr's flip as blue when they are town.

 

[Alakaslam]

To clarify, whenever Alakaslam refers to a person as 'blue' he means a person who'd flip as a pr. On omgus pr's flip as blue when they are town.

TL also

 

[ranmaru]

Ah ok.

Alakaslam who is scum now? Who would you comprimise to if you had to?

I'm gonna sleep. nite

 

[Alakaslam]

Ah ok.

Alakaslam who is scum now? Who would you comprimise to if you had to?

I'm gonna sleep. nite

Unseen

Or I would follow you as you are better at town than I am. That isn't saying much but I at least know you are town.

Might consider maven's word or Jexs

 

[Alakaslam]

Like if maveb or Jexs had good case I might sheep

 

[Wots All This Then?]

How you reading RosalinaSGS?

null

Also throw in a read on Joey, Wott.

thought he was town before the claim. Didnt think he was quite at l2 but i guess i missed a vote somewhere

vote gheb

nah vote jay son

 

[Dooms]

@ Dooms

I'm not? I said I'm interested in what others have to say and I'm not rushing people to vote you.

Also, why did you vote for Vengeful if you are weakdoc?

Finally, who would you compromise lynch if we had to? If you had to choose from an inactive, who would you choose? Thanks.

"Thinking about it, nah. Looking at dayplay. I think we have to focus on that in this game. Scum know what roles they gave us yet we can't even guess what role we were given, so it's like an open setup for them and a semi-open setup for us, since scum can see the discussion of what to vote during the day.

Do you think his push on me and you was town minded?"

I mean okay.

Yeah I'm protecting Ranmaru tonight if I live.

Why would I not vote for Vengeful? That logic would apply to any PR. Janitor is really bad for town, so I didn't want it in scum's hand. That's as straight forward as it gets, and sorry you didn't see that.

Like, if I get lynched, I will probably be jan'd. This is the scenario town didn't want to have, but Zen somehow thought it was a good idea. Now we won't know if I was actually a weak doc or not when I get lynched, and scum could claim something that wasn't chosen and there are people that think I'm scum who will believe it and let them live to end-game.

Inactive would probably be Seal or whomever. I'd compromise your lynch over anyone elses, but JeXs second.

Vote: Ranmaru

 

[Dooms]

Oh, wait, roleblocker.

At least I'll suck up some type of PR with my death. >_>

 

[JeXs]

null
thought he was town before the claim. Didnt think he was quite at l2 but i guess i missed a vote somewhere
nah vote jay son

im actually conflicted about jay

 

[ranmaru]

Tell me your thoughts on that Jex.

 

[JeXs]

from my memory of his play in gheb's mini where he was scum, his play is completely different compared to the way he is playing here, but there are parts of him where i dont understand, like him seeming to be following gheb a lot

 

[ranmaru]

I want you to analyze that, for me. The gheb following.

I'll release some thoughts. I think Jay may be newb town, but only slightly. This is only due to his reaction to pressure, or even simply questioning. Like he scumread me, you, and Alakaslam. I think in his mind, he thought we were out to get him, and especially me. This shows with his change to voting Wott, and pushing Wott to post. Earlier, he was flustered because he wanted to know why I was asking him questions, when I didn't ask you or Wott as much. I never had problems with either of you, so I didn't need to ask at the time. I also don't think newbscum would post so much.

Yet I see that Wott may be scum. He isn't really doing much scumhunting, and the only thing he has is jay and jex. He is always in catch up mode with filler, as Jay himself said.

FoS Wott omg thank you so much draft. Frickin post dissapeared.

 

[JeXs]

yes his reactions to your pressuring of him reminded me of myself in sleepover. i doubt im gonna do the analyzing but i feel like jay has been following gheb a lot since d0 with the role votes and then continuing on to day 1 voting you with gheb.

also yes, WATT has been posting here and there but a lot of his posts dont say much if anything at all

 

[ranmaru]

To give him points I pushed him into voting me. I kept asking him why he wasn't voting.

 

[ranmaru]

Hey @ RosalinaSGS , have anything to say? Definitely curious about your thoughts.

 

[Dooms]

Actually, **** it, I'm furious as hell and I'm tired of Ranmaru playing like someone that can't ****ing count to 5. Long post below, TL;DR at the bottom.

These are 90% of Joey's posts this whole game. First half, is his posts in D0. Second half is his posts in D1. His scumminess is more apparent D1, than D0. The only reason I was able to see scum in him was due to his reaction to me on D0, nothing else. To put it succinctly, Maven was the person to have a problem with me rushing the phase. Then Joey came in agreeing. I feel this was opportunistic, more than actually Joey feeling he found scum. I see it as him taking advantage of Maven's moments of being wrong. The very few posts I have left out are his very last interactions with Jex. I have posted up the quotes, but I will also give highlights of what I feel sticks out to me.

Highlights Next.

If I left out the words "I agree with Maven", you wouldn't be saying any of this ****. Everything I said in that post (especially the second paragraph) is not connected to what Maven said in the slightest aside from my distaste in your slot. I stated MULTIPLE times that I had a problem with you rushing the phase, I didn't back off of it, and I don't plan to. It's a horrible play to make. The fact that you're playing it off as something that I just sat there and copied off of Maven is ****ing disgusting. The fact that you're calling it opportunistic when I sit on it for literally the entire game (and even argue the point further than the person I'm supposed to be copying) is bull****.

Also, who in the flying **** found scum in D0? Do you really think I would sit there and be like "This guy is scum!" when literally that is the first thing I thought was read-worthy in that phase? It was suspicious, disgusting, and vote worthy, but implying that I had to sit there and be like "here's scum, guys!" is mind-numbingly idiotic. The fact that you failed to realize by this:

"By the way, in case it wasn't obvious, when you're stuck between Jan and GF, you try to convince one another and get discussion going instead of trying to rush one option for no particular reason so that we get more information from people in the long run. Remember that this is probably one of the most important decisions of the game. I don't understand how you could think that rushing through this phase is pro town considering the fact that we're deciding roles for the mafia team."

that I wanted you to stop ****ing rushing the phase is simply mind-blowing. I even said this multiple times.

Comes across as stubborn. Doesn't try to argue to progress phase, when he has a problem with phase being rushed. This is one of the examples (and more obvious) to see that he isn't trying to progress the phase. Some of his posts are similar to this.

Of course I'm ****ing stubborn. People were trying to push for a role that would **** us over so hard so easily. I refused to vote for Janitor after I realized they could jan their own teammate. People will not sit on a jan and be like "he's confirmed scum" after they claim a PR. That's a question mark for the entire ****ing game, not just one live lost like a vengeful would be. That is not something town wants to deal with, and I'm sorry that you ****ing failed to see that with multiple people saying this. Just because I didn't repeat what previous people said doesn't mean I'm scum.

Again, his concern with me rushing the phase is due to a disagreement. He tried to twist my actions, for example, he states that me stating that Maven isn't scummy is because he is wrong. I never held maven as a scumread, and is trying to say I am omgusing him. He tries to use that as a point to support his push against me, which is ridiculous.

You literally said that what I did didn't apply to Maven just because he's inexperienced. You're sitting on the three people that scum read you, and you shove the fourth one off because he's inexperienced. That is what I said. I never ****ing said that you were scum reading maven. I said that you weren't scum reading the only other person that was scum reading you and gave a reasoning specifically for them saying that they were inexperienced. Stop ****ing twisting my god damn words.

Now, after a long while, Joey backs down on his push on me, saying he feels better about me due to my last response to him. I was never convincecd that it was my post that made him want to back off. The consensus on me being town came together, and he felt it was not fruitful to continue the push, that is why he stopped. He could have replied at least with answers to my answers as to why, it is moot now since he dropped the push. This shows he never cared to understand my perspective with the push, he simply wanted to push it and when it wasn't beneficial to him, he left it.

I have ****ing Gheb, Maven, and Jay sitting there STILL SCUM READING YOU. The EXACT same people that were scum reading you before were STILL SCUM READING YOU. Why would I suddenly realize "Oh, all of the people that weren't scum reading him aren't scum reading him!" and stop pushing you? Literally not a single person that was initially scum reading you when I made those posts changed their mind when I stopped pushing you.

You want me to be honest? I stopped pushing you for three reasons. One is because I was starting to skim your posts, so I didn't want to have that thing that always happens where you're like "Oh you didn't respond to this, Joey! Please respond to this" and then put it a case against me.

Second, I LITERALLY SAID IN MY POST THAT I WASN'T WILLING TO CONTINUE THE DISCUSSION IF YOU WEREN'T. Seriously, it's somewhere in that post.

Third was that I needed to re-read slots like Jay and JeXs. Simple enough.

Second, his sudden switch to JeXs was opportunistic, and not him exhausting another lead. He didn't really have a real reason to push Jex, he was just pushing him because Jex was an easy push with his gut/slight reasoning for voting Gheb. Let me repeat, as soon as he backed off, he switched suddenly. As town, when you need to re-evaluate, it should take some time before you are able to switch gears. Yet he already had Jex in mind, without a real reason to even start the push.

I said multiple times (very clearly) that he was pushing a very unbelievable meta read that doesn't apply to Gheb in the slightest and had literally the worst push I've ever seen because of it. We make ****ing jokes about how mad Gheb gets in games. JeXs showed me that game where he cooperated, and I was completely shocked until I realized that it was a setup where it was pretty much required. I've had talks with people like Ryker and Raziek about how he is so rude in games that it was almost a problem (in my opinion). I love Gheb to death (no homo), but there are times where he's a ****ing pain to deal with in game because of how unwilling he is to cooperate with people that he knows for a fact he's better than (myself for example). Hell, someone came into this thread saying the exact same thing I did (just not scum reading him for pushing it).

"It should take some time before you are able to switch gears" is bull****. You see something, you make a read of it. Acting like there is some timeframe required for that to happen is a load of **** that I can't believe you're spouting. Also, my real reason is something I've said multiple times.

Last of all, you're assuming that my vote switch at that moment in time was because he was scum from my perspective. Here's a quick reality check for you: It wasn't. Like, at all. I wanted him to answer my question, and I was done with you, so I threw a vote down. Considering how defensive he was being about literally every negative word against him, I figured throwing a vote in would make him show a bit more. Sorry that pushing for more information isn't allowed anymore.

His push was indirect. Meaning, he quotes Jex's reasoning, and simply goes "Ew, this is disgusting" and then tries to twist it. This is done because as scum, you have to lie about your suspicions, and it is easy to dislike a trivial action by simply being disgusted by it. I know because I have done it before as scum. You can't directly state what it is that is suspicious and why the person has scum intent. Just that the thing they did is disgusting. Easier to say it that way.

You're a really ****ty mafia player if you're simply trying to lie about your reasoning behind voting someone Day 1. Like, Day 1 is when you catch mafia for making easy pushes (which may or may not apply to me) and jumping onto wagons that are already successfully formed, not for when you catch them making fake pushes. You do that when it's multiple days into the game where town has already shown how townie they really are.

Like, I'm sorry that you think that pushing Gheb with "I don't like how angry he was so early in the game with no reasoning behind it whatsoever" and "I think his anger is fake" is somehow pro-town or decent reasoning, but reality check for you: it's not. It's really ****ty reasoning. Like, REALLY ****ty, even without considering his meta. Like, you really think that ****ing anger in the beginning of the game is indicative of alignment? Please. Let me get Ryker, Laundry, or Xonar in here to sit down and have a chat with you (or ****ing Gheb). The players that actually find scum. I ****ing suck at this game more than almost everyone I've seen play, but at least I ****ing know that.

I directly stated that his meta push on Gheb was crap because that meta doesn't line up with a majority of his actual play. Like, even if I didn't word it like that, it's clear literally from my first post that that is why I'm pushing him. I even add more to it later. Like, it's really not that complex, Ranmaru.

Joey has been pushing hard on Jex, who has been more of a null. What joey does is try to force Jex's reasoning into something scummy. He basically disagrees with Joey on his gheb stance, and Jex makes a good point:

"Who has been more of a null" STOP BEING A ****ING HYPOCRITE. If you're going to sit here and label my push as suspicious with "he's pushing me for having a different opinion than him", then don't ****ing add that as reasoning in your god damned ****ty ass case.

Also, no, I just don't ****ing disagree with him. He's ****ing pushing a meta read on someone that doesn't apply to them. Do you really think that that is the same as JeXs saying "Ranmaru is scum because he likes penis" and me saying "No, I like penis, but I'm town! YOU HAVE TO BE SCUM!" in the slightest or in any somewhat realistic scenario? No. It doesn't. His biggest scum read is a meta scum read that is inaccurate literally 100% (and yes, I expect someone that has played more than 5 games on this site and 1 game with Gheb to know this considering how well known he is for it on this site).

to show that Joey never had a real reason to push him. The red shows his actual 'dislike' for him. This is not a basis to lynch someone off.

The **** you tryin to say that that's the real reasoning. I've stated multiple times now that the real reasoning for pushing JeXs was because his strongest read was a ****ty meta read (and ****ty without meta read) that doesn't even apply to him. Another reason (which I've also stated) was that he tried to redirect my pressure onto Maven and tried to compare the two reads when Maven isn't even pushing JeXs nor voting him.

Joey even brings up meta on a game that Jex wasn't even talking about. You can tell Joey has no reason to push Jexs when he has to ask "Have you played a game with gheb before" because he started pushing Jex while assuming Jex KNEW how gheb played. Meaning Joey didn't know if Jex had as much meta info as Joey expected him to. "You should know how gheb plays, but wait, have you played with gheb?" < That thought process makes no sense.

Why are you putting the "Joey even brings up meta on a game that JeXs wasn't even talking about" point under a post that is WAY earlier than it as if this game was somehow going through my mind while I made this post? Like, this makes literally no sense to have here considering almost all of the other points are in chronological order.

"Have you played a game with Gheb before" is so ****ing obviously sarcasm that it's not even funny. Like, why would I say that seriously and then IMMEDIATELY follow it with "How is this different than any other game Gheb has been in"? Like, seriously. Do you REALLY think I asked that without even the slightest hint of sarcasm?

In the final post I bring up, Joey shows his conclusions on his reads. On JexS, he states that his gheb push is disgusting and his meta reasoning is weak. This reasoning isn't convincing enough, and he doesn't stop to consider JexS's experience with Gheb in other games.

Why do I need to consider his Gheb experience? Like, if you have someone reacting the way that I did, acting like Gheb acting the way he is is common null knowledge, why in the living **** are you not reconsidering your read? Why are you sitting on a meta read when you have one person (now two) saying that your meta is ****ing wrong? Yet you're town reading him for doing this.

I ALSO state that his Maven push is non-exsistant (on his second strongest scum read aside from a meta read) aside from when he asks me "Why aren't you attacking Maven for his ****ty read", which is deflecting the pressure I'm putting on him onto Maven. Apparently that point didn't make it into this post.

1. He tries to twist some of my words to support his push on me. (Maven omgus point)

Wrong.

2. Sudden, Opportunic switch to Jex without any real suspicion of him, just a disagreement/question.

Wrong.

3. States he isn't confident at the start of his push, but forces his way to make it a confident one to the point of being fine with his lynch by the time he solidifies his reads.

Wrong. It's called developing a read.

4. Keeps me at null to keep his options open for later. (As you can see, he has me third on his lynch list regardless)

Keeping you at null because your play is ass and I'd love to have you lynched for it if we get too close to deadline to make anything else out of it, but you can't be an actual lynch candidate because you're universally known for having **** play.

5. Thought process doesn't make sense wrt his push on Jex's reasoning. "You should know how Gheb plays, but wait, have you played with Gheb before?" It shows that his push on Jex was pre-mature. If he were town, he'd ask if he had played with Gheb before pushing him. Yet, he was too thirsty for JexY, and jumped immediately.

Wrong.

6. Even though he dropped his push on me, he never replied to my questions, such as "Why does it make me scum and not town", to see if he could see my perspective. This shows that he doesn't care about reading me, but only that pushing me right now is not beneficial to him, and therefore he chooses to go after Jex for a disagreement of reads.

I didn't respond to your questions because you said very openly "I'm not going to reply to anything else you say regarding this". Like, really?

--------RANTING TIME (You can skip this part if you're reading this post for some reason, and this is in no way part of my defense at all regardless of how it may sound):

This, right here, is Ranmaru in mafia games, lady and gents. You all may think I'm just sitting here, being salty as ****, but trust me, I am. I'm really ****ing salty. Let me tell you all something. I've been playing as long as Ranmaru has.

This is probably the 4th or 5th time this has happened (maybe even more). This is how it goes EVERY. ****ING. TIME.

Ranmaru will post something that people will town read him for because he's Ranmaru. I will say "What the **** is this? This is scummy" and then Ranmaru walls me for not seeing things from his perspective. Some people defend him, some people tell me to stop and just town read him

I scum read him because I somehow think "He can't really think that if I can see more of a scum point of view here than a town point of view that I'm scum" and the rest of his play has been... well... you know.

He makes a case on me.

I say that my read has somehow magically changed to town on him and I suddenly understand his perspective.

He drops it until I put him back on the table.

Rinse-repeat.

Consistently. If I cared in the slightest, I could find at least 3 examples from previous games where he votes me for not being able to see what he's posting in a town light over a scum light. 3 examples where he asks me "Can you see the town intent in this though?". 3 examples of "This is him twisting my words."

To his credit: This game is different in the sense that he didn't actually drop the read on me. Everything else is normal.

If anyone was ever somehow wondering why I decided not to read a Ranmaru wall until I was beyond done with mafia, well, here you go.

END RANT------------

TL;DR:​

Don't even read the above. It's a ****ty defense, and I 100% typed it out of pure frustration. I'm probably going to get lynched. I played horribly, and I apologize to the town, the mafia, and Marshy for ruining the game partially by removing one of town's PRs (or one of scum's members whichever way you view it read-wise).

If I don't get killed D1 or N1, I'm subbing out. I can try to find my own replacement if I need to (just say the word, Marshy), and I'll vote with town to secure a lynch if I need to, but I'm ****ing done after that.

I don't mean to offend you personally or anything Ranmaru if you actually read the above (which I doubt you will), but I'm ****ing furious that I have to deal with the same obnoxious **** I've had to deal with in mafia games for at least 3 years because someone STILL thinks that if I don't see their play as town over scum, that I'm scum and that everything I do is scum motivated. Also, for the love of god, PLEASE don't reply to the above unless you're somehow pushed because of it. If you do, don't expect a reply from me, because you will definitely not be getting one.

Rule 1 me so I get ****ing modkilled and blacklisted and if I ever try to join a ****ing mafia game ever again, link me to this post (or just tell me I'm blacklisted or an immature child that took a game too seriously or that vaginas are cool and appealing or something).

 

[Dooms]

Jay noob town (null-town)
Gheb nulltown
Wott town
Maven town
Ran null
Jexs nullscum
Zen nulltown
Ryu town
I don't remember other people in this game so they're probably null.

 

[ranmaru]

I am actually going to reply to (tomorrow night) it so others can see both sides. I will say this in the meantime:

You have problems with Gheb having an attitude, but that whole post has generated even worse. Secondly, each time I have argued with you, you were scum or an anti-town role. Mafia is strictly business. Every time you have responded to me, it's an over-reaction. I'll be honest to say that I never liked arguing with you especially when you are mafia, because it takes a toll on me emotionally. Same with Soup scum. But again, it's strictly business.

 

[ranmaru]

Finally, if you had me at null, I don't think finding scum in Jex is a convincing path to go down. I would think if you were town you'd have reads that are more developed. You don't even care to address Seal, nor RosalinaSGS.

I have a problem with Rosa actually. She is also very silent, and has to be poked to even post content. D0 she came across as intelligent and giving good opinions on roles, but she disappeared a bit as soon as D1 started. More on her later. I wish she would post more content.

 

[Dooms]

You have problems with Gheb having an attitude, but that whole post has generated even worse. Secondly, each time I have argued with you, you were scum or an anti-town role. Mafia is strictly business. Every time you have responded to me, it's an over-reaction. I'll be honest to say that I never liked arguing with you especially when you are mafia, because it takes a toll on me emotionally. Same with Soup scum. But again, it's strictly business.

Well you don't have to worry about how I play in games anymore because I won't be playing in another one. If I was always scum when you did this, then continue what you're doing. Doesn't matter at this point either way.

Finally, if you had me at null, I don't think finding scum in Jex is a convincing path to go down. I would think if you were town you'd have reads that are more developed. You don't even care to address Seal, nor RosalinaSGS.

I have a problem with Rosa actually. She is also very silent, and has to be poked to even post content. D0 she came across as intelligent and giving good opinions on roles, but she disappeared a bit as soon as D1 started. More on her later. I wish she would post more content.

I don't form opinions on people that aren't here. That leads to random lynching (which is not something I want to do unless it's a last resort), and lurking is barely a legitimate strategy unless the town is arguing themselves to death (when Glyph/myself/Rake could all hide in a scum game that I can't remember for some odd reason because people were debating about Nabe (who was very obviously indy) instead of looking for actual mafia members). If people are pressuring you to post more when you're scum and you're lurking, then I see no reason to continue lurking, especially as we get closer to deadline and inactive lynches are suddenly legitimate options (or when there is potentially a vig in the game).

The biggest argument against prodding any inactive poster is that people have lives. College, friends, social lives, etc. Not only that, but this is the week of the WORST Apex ever by far. People are way more interested in other things right now than Mafia, and you really can't blame them for that considering what board we're playing on. Day 1 happened at an unfortunate time for a Smashboards game. I'm a firm believer in this.

 

[JeXs]

joey why is wott town

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Actually, **** it, I'm furious as hell and I'm tired of Ranmaru playing like someone that can't ****ing count to 5. Long post below, TL;DR at the bottom.



If I left out the words "I agree with Maven", you wouldn't be saying any of this ****. Everything I said in that post (especially the second paragraph) is not connected to what Maven said in the slightest aside from my distaste in your slot. I stated MULTIPLE times that I had a problem with you rushing the phase, I didn't back off of it, and I don't plan to. It's a horrible play to make. The fact that you're playing it off as something that I just sat there and copied off of Maven is ****ing disgusting. The fact that you're calling it opportunistic when I sit on it for literally the entire game (and even argue the point further than the person I'm supposed to be copying) is bull****.

Also, who in the flying **** found scum in D0? Do you really think I would sit there and be like "This guy is scum!" when literally that is the first thing I thought was read-worthy in that phase? It was suspicious, disgusting, and vote worthy, but implying that I had to sit there and be like "here's scum, guys!" is mind-numbingly idiotic. The fact that you failed to realize by this:

"By the way, in case it wasn't obvious, when you're stuck between Jan and GF, you try to convince one another and get discussion going instead of trying to rush one option for no particular reason so that we get more information from people in the long run. Remember that this is probably one of the most important decisions of the game. I don't understand how you could think that rushing through this phase is pro town considering the fact that we're deciding roles for the mafia team."

that I wanted you to stop ****ing rushing the phase is simply mind-blowing. I even said this multiple times.



Of course I'm ****ing stubborn. People were trying to push for a role that would **** us over so hard so easily. I refused to vote for Janitor after I realized they could jan their own teammate. People will not sit on a jan and be like "he's confirmed scum" after they claim a PR. That's a question mark for the entire ****ing game, not just one live lost like a vengeful would be. That is not something town wants to deal with, and I'm sorry that you ****ing failed to see that with multiple people saying this. Just because I didn't repeat what previous people said doesn't mean I'm scum.



You literally said that what I did didn't apply to Maven just because he's inexperienced. You're sitting on the three people that scum read you, and you shove the fourth one off because he's inexperienced. That is what I said. I never ****ing said that you were scum reading maven. I said that you weren't scum reading the only other person that was scum reading you and gave a reasoning specifically for them saying that they were inexperienced. Stop ****ing twisting my god damn words.



I have ****ing Gheb, Maven, and Jay sitting there STILL SCUM READING YOU. The EXACT same people that were scum reading you before were STILL SCUM READING YOU. Why would I suddenly realize "Oh, all of the people that weren't scum reading him aren't scum reading him!" and stop pushing you? Literally not a single person that was initially scum reading you when I made those posts changed their mind when I stopped pushing you.

You want me to be honest? I stopped pushing you for three reasons. One is because I was starting to skim your posts, so I didn't want to have that thing that always happens where you're like "Oh you didn't respond to this, Joey! Please respond to this" and then put it a case against me.

Second, I LITERALLY SAID IN MY POST THAT I WASN'T WILLING TO CONTINUE THE DISCUSSION IF YOU WEREN'T. Seriously, it's somewhere in that post.

Third was that I needed to re-read slots like Jay and JeXs. Simple enough.



I said multiple times (very clearly) that he was pushing a very unbelievable meta read that doesn't apply to Gheb in the slightest and had literally the worst push I've ever seen because of it. We make ****ing jokes about how mad Gheb gets in games. JeXs showed me that game where he cooperated, and I was completely shocked until I realized that it was a setup where it was pretty much required. I've had talks with people like Ryker and Raziek about how he is so rude in games that it was almost a problem (in my opinion). I love Gheb to death (no homo), but there are times where he's a ****ing pain to deal with in game because of how unwilling he is to cooperate with people that he knows for a fact he's better than (myself for example). Hell, someone came into this thread saying the exact same thing I did (just not scum reading him for pushing it).

"It should take some time before you are able to switch gears" is bull****. You see something, you make a read of it. Acting like there is some timeframe required for that to happen is a load of **** that I can't believe you're spouting. Also, my real reason is something I've said multiple times.

Last of all, you're assuming that my vote switch at that moment in time was because he was scum from my perspective. Here's a quick reality check for you: It wasn't. Like, at all. I wanted him to answer my question, and I was done with you, so I threw a vote down. Considering how defensive he was being about literally every negative word against him, I figured throwing a vote in would make him show a bit more. Sorry that pushing for more information isn't allowed anymore.



You're a really ****ty mafia player if you're simply trying to lie about your reasoning behind voting someone Day 1. Like, Day 1 is when you catch mafia for making easy pushes (which may or may not apply to me) and jumping onto wagons that are already successfully formed, not for when you catch them making fake pushes. You do that when it's multiple days into the game where town has already shown how townie they really are.

Like, I'm sorry that you think that pushing Gheb with "I don't like how angry he was so early in the game with no reasoning behind it whatsoever" and "I think his anger is fake" is somehow pro-town or decent reasoning, but reality check for you: it's not. It's really ****ty reasoning. Like, REALLY ****ty, even without considering his meta. Like, you really think that ****ing anger in the beginning of the game is indicative of alignment? Please. Let me get Ryker, Laundry, or Xonar in here to sit down and have a chat with you (or ****ing Gheb). The players that actually find scum. I ****ing suck at this game more than almost everyone I've seen play, but at least I ****ing know that.

I directly stated that his meta push on Gheb was crap because that meta doesn't line up with a majority of his actual play. Like, even if I didn't word it like that, it's clear literally from my first post that that is why I'm pushing him. I even add more to it later. Like, it's really not that complex, Ranmaru.



"Who has been more of a null" STOP BEING A ****ING HYPOCRITE. If you're going to sit here and label my push as suspicious with "he's pushing me for having a different opinion than him", then don't ****ing add that as reasoning in your god damned ****ty *** case.

Also, no, I just don't ****ing disagree with him. He's ****ing pushing a meta read on someone that doesn't apply to them. Do you really think that that is the same as JeXs saying "Ranmaru is scum because he likes penis" and me saying "No, I like penis, but I'm town! YOU HAVE TO BE SCUM!" in the slightest or in any somewhat realistic scenario? No. It doesn't. His biggest scum read is a meta scum read that is inaccurate literally 100% (and yes, I expect someone that has played more than 5 games on this site and 1 game with Gheb to know this considering how well known he is for it on this site).



The **** you tryin to say that that's the real reasoning. I've stated multiple times now that the real reasoning for pushing JeXs was because his strongest read was a ****ty meta read (and ****ty without meta read) that doesn't even apply to him. Another reason (which I've also stated) was that he tried to redirect my pressure onto Maven and tried to compare the two reads when Maven isn't even pushing JeXs nor voting him.



Why are you putting the "Joey even brings up meta on a game that JeXs wasn't even talking about" point under a post that is WAY earlier than it as if this game was somehow going through my mind while I made this post? Like, this makes literally no sense to have here considering almost all of the other points are in chronological order.

"Have you played a game with Gheb before" is so ****ing obviously sarcasm that it's not even funny. Like, why would I say that seriously and then IMMEDIATELY follow it with "How is this different than any other game Gheb has been in"? Like, seriously. Do you REALLY think I asked that without even the slightest hint of sarcasm?



Why do I need to consider his Gheb experience? Like, if you have someone reacting the way that I did, acting like Gheb acting the way he is is common null knowledge, why in the living **** are you not reconsidering your read? Why are you sitting on a meta read when you have one person (now two) saying that your meta is ****ing wrong? Yet you're town reading him for doing this.

I ALSO state that his Maven push is non-exsistant (on his second strongest scum read aside from a meta read) aside from when he asks me "Why aren't you attacking Maven for his ****ty read", which is deflecting the pressure I'm putting on him onto Maven. Apparently that point didn't make it into this post.



Wrong.



Wrong.



Wrong. It's called developing a read.



Keeping you at null because your play is *** and I'd love to have you lynched for it if we get too close to deadline to make anything else out of it, but you can't be an actual lynch candidate because you're universally known for having **** play.



Wrong.



I didn't respond to your questions because you said very openly "I'm not going to reply to anything else you say regarding this". Like, really?

--------RANTING TIME (You can skip this part if you're reading this post for some reason, and this is in no way part of my defense at all regardless of how it may sound):

This, right here, is Ranmaru in mafia games, lady and gents. You all may think I'm just sitting here, being salty as ****, but trust me, I am. I'm really ****ing salty. Let me tell you all something. I've been playing as long as Ranmaru has.

This is probably the 4th or 5th time this has happened (maybe even more). This is how it goes EVERY. ****ING. TIME.

Ranmaru will post something that people will town read him for because he's Ranmaru. I will say "What the **** is this? This is scummy" and then Ranmaru walls me for not seeing things from his perspective. Some people defend him, some people tell me to stop and just town read him

I scum read him because I somehow think "He can't really think that if I can see more of a scum point of view here than a town point of view that I'm scum" and the rest of his play has been... well... you know.

He makes a case on me.

I say that my read has somehow magically changed to town on him and I suddenly understand his perspective.

He drops it until I put him back on the table.

Rinse-repeat.

Consistently. If I cared in the slightest, I could find at least 3 examples from previous games where he votes me for not being able to see what he's posting in a town light over a scum light. 3 examples where he asks me "Can you see the town intent in this though?". 3 examples of "This is him twisting my words."

To his credit: This game is different in the sense that he didn't actually drop the read on me. Everything else is normal.

If anyone was ever somehow wondering why I decided not to read a Ranmaru wall until I was beyond done with mafia, well, here you go.

END RANT------------

TL;DR:​

Don't even read the above. It's a ****ty defense, and I 100% typed it out of pure frustration. I'm probably going to get lynched. I played horribly, and I apologize to the town, the mafia, and Marshy for ruining the game partially by removing one of town's PRs (or one of scum's members whichever way you view it read-wise).

If I don't get killed D1 or N1, I'm subbing out. I can try to find my own replacement if I need to (just say the word, Marshy), and I'll vote with town to secure a lynch if I need to, but I'm ****ing done after that.

I don't mean to offend you personally or anything Ranmaru if you actually read the above (which I doubt you will), but I'm ****ing furious that I have to deal with the same obnoxious **** I've had to deal with in mafia games for at least 3 years because someone STILL thinks that if I don't see their play as town over scum, that I'm scum and that everything I do is scum motivated. Also, for the love of god, PLEASE don't reply to the above unless you're somehow pushed because of it. If you do, don't expect a reply from me, because you will definitely not be getting one.

Rule 1 me so I get ****ing modkilled and blacklisted and if I ever try to join a ****ing mafia game ever again, link me to this post (or just tell me I'm blacklisted or an immature child that took a game too seriously or that vaginas are cool and appealing or something).

Joeys town and if anyone says otherwise they're crazy.

 

[RosalinaSGS]

Sorry I haven't been posting very much recently. School started and I'd completely forgotten how much homework they give us.
First off,
@Maven89
@Gheb_01
@Red Ryu
@JayTheUnseen
@ Alakaslam
@Seal
@Zenny
Weak doc CCs?

Previously, I'd agreed with Ranmaru's read of Joey, especially his changing votes. It certainly did appear odd. However, ever since his claim, my opinions have changed. Unlike Ranmaru, I believe PRs play a very big role in this game, and disregarding claims can be extremely detrimental. If Joey is indeed weak doc, lynching him is the last thing we need. Additionally, if we take into account his reaction after the claim, it doesn't appear to be from mafia mindset. It can only achieve two purposes: finding the weak doc, or, if they hadn't actually given us weak doc, protecting himself. If they wanted to find a PR, why would they choose weak doc? It's more advantageous to find another role, one which isn't likely to kill itself. If Joey had wanted to protect himself, it simply doesn't make sense to give up all defences immediately afterwards. After all, that's just wasting a tactic. If we also take into account his reaction from a psychological perspective, I don't think a mafioso would give up and start ranting. (Also, if anyone has actually read it, could they condense everything Joey said that was of value?) Overall, I doubt he is a mafia. His claim, and his reactions after that seem contradictory if he is indeed mafia. Unfortunately, if he is weak doc, he's now no better than a named townie, due to Role-block and WIFOM.

As for who to lynch today, I don't think it's necessarily advantageous to do so. Whilst WATT explained we don't really want to sacrifice an innocent, it does increase the chances of our lynches being correct (parity arguement). If we must lynch, then I would go for Jay. I've been feeling better about him due to his more recent replies, but his previous posts still colour my opinion of him. As such, he appears the most suspicious out of everyone, but he's not actually that suspicious. Or, we can policy lynch an inactive, but I'm strongly against this option as they are unlikely to be able to reply and they may be PR.

 

[RosalinaSGS]

Since the day is ending, I think we should discuss PR actions. All that needs to be said right now is that vigilante, if we have one, shouldn't kill. The other roles should be free to do whatever they want, to avoid WIFOM.