pick yur poison | ovah

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'm liking Joey's views

Elaborate on this.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Just that you are posting logically in with logic I can follow

This...isn't very specific.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Except he is town.

See J there is really no harm in me outing you, people still think you are scum.

I can act with impunity, since I have no credibility. It is similar to ignorance, an ignoble bliss.

Someone help me read this guy....I want to like him but I can't nail down how much I could trust him not to be scum....

...oh lord this game.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Jexs v Joey is feeling TvS, dunno who I would say is more likely between the two.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Eh, I don't really see what the case against me is. Everything Ran said is OMGUS except the idea with the masonizer claiming, something I've explained in ample detail on D0 and never actively pushed for but just wanted to talk about. You're making a big deal out of nothing there @ Maven89 @ ranmaru ... find something better to push plz. You're wasting time waiting for me to answer stuff that's not conclusive for finding scum. Which intself can be seen as scummy or at least anti-town.
I don't even know what JeXs is arguing. A little bit of meta here, some arguments based on a flawed perception of my play there and that's pretty much all I'm getting from him. Not impressed.

Ranmaru is still guilty of getting mafia a Janitor and that's inexcusable when somebody like him can be expected to know better. We're still dealing with the threat of losing the game if we don't get to see the D1 flip. No amount if OMGUS will make that go away. I've promised myself to not let scummy play slide anymore just because it can be attributed as "bad play". What Ranmaru has done is anti-town to the highest degree and nothing he has argued can ever justify it. I will push for him to get lynched for the rest of the game and will not shed a single tear if he flips town. On the contrary - if he keeps things up the way he's doing in this game, I will continue to lynch him in the next games over and over until we don't have to ask ourselves "is he scummy or just playing bad???". At this point he has no excuse for playing bad. What he's doing is scummy to the max and I will treat his slot accoringly. No need for fake compromises, we'll win this game without him in case he flips town.

So much for my defense ... busting out scumreads later.

Not really feelin this.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'm out for now.

Not really a fan of lynching Ran or Gheb.

I want Jay dead.

After that I would reread Joey because I'm not feelin the obvious townie I would this game.

Then JexS when I'm not sure of his intent in his posts and him v Joey is really off to me.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I'm not singling out Ranmaru. I think Jexs is fairly suspicious too. But Ran trying to manipulate less experienced players like Rosa into voting Janitor is ridiculously mucky and should not be considered acceptable under any circumstance.

The reason I don't think Zen is scum ... I don't wanna talk about it. It just makes me look jaded and cynical at this point. I don't wanna speak out things that I've covered many times in the past. I doesn't feel right to me and it's unfair to him but I 100% believe it's true still so I'll just leave it at that. Zen himself will know what I mean.

I might need to rethink Zen vs Gheb after more flips but the more I see them butt heads I think the interaction was TvT.

There was a "Zen vs Gheb" situation? Except for that one time where Zen lost his **** after I made that appeal to experience, we've only had fair discussion with no backhanded remarks or accusations. I've even called him obvtown at one point and he never even hinted at me being likely scum. Ranmaru vs Joey/Gheb are the ones that were really butting heads and that's largely Ran's fault for not bringing up his points in D0 [when they would've been relevant and worth discussing] but rushing for an unnecessarily quick D1 instead.

 

[Maven89]

Bad vote.

Why?

Someone help me read this guy....I want to like him but I can't nail down how much I could trust him not to be scum....

...oh lord this game.

You can join with me in demanding he posts English and not silly spirit animal metaphors so that he'll actually contribute

 

[JayTheUnseen]

Ok.

I am trying to follow standard debate format though; can you give your say on why I am scummy?

You have given a rebuttal but I will not give counter rebuttal until I have seen an argument and given a rebuttal. Then you counter rebuttal, and I counter rebuttal and your counter, and so on until we reach a decision.

Unless you have already decided.

I already did here:

Alakaslam:
Non-sense posts make me just want him out of the ganme.
PLUS,you cannot argue with the fact his non-sense makes posting/reading useful content harder,
nor can you argue that is anything but good for scum.
I hate to admit that his posts that were serious looked town,but there is always acting.
His plan as scum could be to stick out so much/look so silly that no one would ever think he as scum would stick out so much.

 

[JayTheUnseen]

I'm not singling out Ranmaru. I think Jexs is fairly suspicious too. But Ran trying to manipulate less experienced players like Rosa into voting Janitor is ridiculously mucky and should not be considered acceptable under any circumstance.

The reason I don't think Zen is scum ... I don't wanna talk about it. It just makes me look jaded and cynical at this point. I don't wanna speak out things that I've covered many times in the past. I doesn't feel right to me and it's unfair to him but I 100% believe it's true still so I'll just leave it at that. Zen himself will know what I mean.



There was a "Zen vs Gheb" situation? Except for that one time where Zen lost his **** after I made that appeal to experience, we've only had fair discussion with no backhanded remarks or accusations. I've even called him obvtown at one point and he never even hinted at me being likely scum. Ranmaru vs Joey/Gheb are the ones that were really butting heads and that's largely Ran's fault for not bringing up his points in D0 [when they would've been relevant and worth discussing] but rushing for an unnecessarily quick D1 instead.

Gheb,I repeat,do you feel Ran was pushing me?If so,do you think it heightens the chance he is scum?

 

[JayTheUnseen]

Elaborate on this.

He is posting with points I can see the logic behind.

@Ranmaru your thoughts on JeXs?
@ JeXs your thoughts on Ran?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I don't think a Gheb vote is worth it right now unless he play the, "go inactive because I can't get me way" card.

I'll leave Alakaslam to his methods since making him change it won't happen me thinks.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

He is posting with points I can see the logic behind.

@Ranmaru your thoughts on JeXs?
@ JeXs your thoughts on Ran?

When I say elaborate, i mean on what.

Which points? What logic?

Telling me this vaguely tells me nothing of your mindset.

 

[JayTheUnseen]

Okay I've thought about things a bit (and I played videogames)

@ JeXs Gheb push is simply disgusting. Not only is the reasoning behind it horrid in general (angry Gheb? Really?), but it also doesn't line up meta-wise. Trying to say that Gheb cooperates as town over scum is BS. Gheb always plays with a "be aggressive but cooperate with people that will get me closer to winning or can help me reach my goals" mentality, and it's obvious in any game I recall being in with him. The first one that comes to mind is swag mafia where he was scum and cooperated with slots like Ryker in order to get closer to his goal. If there was anyone he felt he could get something from in this game, he'd probably be working with them. The fact that he started out this game cooperating in order to get what he wanted with his Godfather role shows this. This read alone is probably one of the most BS reads I've seen.

Outside of his Gheb push, he has a scum read on Maven, which hasn't been pushed aside from when he attempted to reflect my pressure from himself onto Maven. I do not like that JeXs did this either. While Maven's crappy meta read on JeXs was questionable, the fact that Maven's vote is elsewhere shows that JeXs is more of a weaker read or gut read than anything else for him. Him trying to compare himself to Maven in order to get my thoughts off of him is disgusting. Outside of his really bad push and his not-really-a push, he hasn't done **** D1. I don't have an opinion of his D0 play because it was just spouting for Janitor and that's null. JeXs can die.

@ ~ Gheb ~ is null. Him being stubborn like this is definitely not pro town (or pro scum), but with how Ranmaru is playing regarding almost everyone that pushed Godfather, I can't disagree with him. He's being very stubborn and not discussing things with town, and I don't like that, but that's not indicating of alignment (ESPECIALLY for someone like Gheb). If Ranmaru is getting away with OMGUS'ing three slots and having to say "Maven isn't included because he's inexperienced" to the only other slot pressuring him (which is null for Ranmaru specifically but would be scummy for other players), I'm not going to turn around and vote Gheb for being stubborn.

@ ranmaru I agree with Maven. Ranmaru's play is just crappy in general. Not scummy (or townie). It's just crappy. He's playing the "if you agree with me, you're town, but if you don't, you're suspicious or inexperienced" thought process right now, and it's really obvious with how he's handling literally all of the active slots so far. That's not scummy of course, it's just bad lmao. He's just playing horribly. Ranmaru isn't a scum read for me. He's just null. Although I don't like how he's pushing Gheb so hard for something so null.

@ Maven89 I like Maven. Maven is a cool guy, and I've seen where his thoughts are coming from more than any other slot this game. I feel like I'm in a hydra with him they're so similar (at least prior to making this post lmao). He's the most townie slot to me in this game.

@Zenny I'm neutral to most of what Zen has said. His defense towards Ranmaru was really disgusting, and I can't see why anyone would think that after both Zen himself and Ranmaru were both saying "STAYING IN THIS PHASE IS GOOD FOR SCUM!" that scumRan wouldn't run into Day 1 just as easily if not easier than townRan. You're literally asking for scum to push into Day 1 in order to get two people off of their back temporarily. That mindset is gross. Like I said, though, I'm neutral to almost everything Zen has said outside of this.

@ JayTheUnseen is probably the last slot to actually comment on. To put it simply, he's a new player, and that much is really obvious. I'm not going to lynch him just because he's asking "Why are you focusing on me specifically when other people are doing the same thing". I'd like for him to... you know... actually answer people, but him wondering about why he's not getting equal treatment when compared to slots that Ranmaru isn't attacking is kinda null. I'm not against voting him if it came down to it, but that's it.

My lynch preference is JeXs >>>> JayTheUnseen > Ranmaru (I'd barely lynch Ranmaru over an inactive).

My vote is staying on JeXs.

I can't say much about his detest of the Gheb read because he's talking about meta which I'm not familiar with.
I can't see where JeXs deflected pressure from himself onto Maven,so actually I can't agree with his reasoning for suspecting JeXs,BUT,I can agree he looks scum,
he will not even defend himself.

In fact,looking at most of this,I don't agree per se,simply enjoy his logic and that he was so thorough.

 

[JayTheUnseen]

Also,if people decide to hammer the vote against me,please warn me as there's something I would like to say first in that case.

 

[JeXs]

He is posting with points I can see the logic behind.

@Ranmaru your thoughts on JeXs?
@ JeXs your thoughts on Ran?

town

I can't say much about his detest of the Gheb read because he's talking about meta which I'm not familiar with.
I can't see where JeXs deflected pressure from himself onto Maven,so actually I can't agree with his reasoning for suspecting JeXs,BUT,I can agree he looks scum,
he will not even defend himself.

In fact,looking at most of this,I don't agree per se,simply enjoy his logic and that he was so thorough.

you have no reason but you think i "look" scum??? whats there to defend myself from

 

[JayTheUnseen]

town

you have no reason but you think i "look" scum??? whats there to defend myself from

Your posts are short and generally aggressive without much reason.

 

[JeXs]

Your posts are short and generally aggressive without much reason.

and why is that scummy again

 

[JayTheUnseen]

and why is that scummy again

It's best for scum to not say much,look at people saying I'm scum for not contributing enough.

 

[JeXs]

and where is the aggression you are seeing from me...?

 

[JeXs]

It's best for scum to not say much,look at people saying I'm scum for not contributing enough.

i dont think thats the case though they are saying you are scum because of the way you react

 

[JayTheUnseen]

Vote: Jaytheunseen

I want more solid stances, though I am on page 16 on the reread.

If you think I'm scum due to lack of content,then what do you think about Wots?

 

[JayTheUnseen]

i dont think thats the case though they are saying you are scum because of the way you react

He said I need more solid stances,and that is related to content.

@ #HBC | Red Ryu also Ran himself said I was being too stubborn in my read of him,ergo too 'solid' on it

 

[JeXs]

oh i was more referring to ran/alakaslam

 

[JayTheUnseen]

oh i was more referring to ran/alakaslam

When you said what?

 

[JeXs]

i dont think thats the case though they are saying you are scum because of the way you react

 

[ranmaru]

Spoiler: Day 0 Joey

Wait, why are we not just doing Vengeful and Jan?

Those two seem to not work well together at all, and it makes the Jan a 100% guess.

This mafia is not getting godfather, and I don't see why we need to give them a roleblock lmao.

I agree with Mason/Vig/Weak Doc btw.

I'm actually starting to side towards Roleblock/Janitor.

oh wtf 50% insane cop. I missed that. I also didn't think about Jan using it on themselves.

I'll vote Godfather and Roleblock

by themselves, I mean the Jan using it on a different mafia member.

Thank god a lot of the people in this game are more independent and won't just follow you. :x

I thought weak doc still died if he protected godfather.

Also, not sure why people are trying to give mafia a janitor. Giving mafia a janitor is giving them information we will never have. Really straight forward. >_>

Also I agree with Maven. Ranmaru trying to rush this phase is stupid and very vote worthy. Especially when saying things like "When people continue to argue in circles and are even undecided between GF and Jan, it's time to pull your pants up and lock in and stop moaning."

By the way, in case it wasn't obvious, when you're stuck between Jan and GF, you try to convince one another and get discussion going instead of trying to rush one option for no particular reason so that we get more information from people in the long run. Remember that this is probably one of the most important decisions of the game. I don't understand how you could think that rushing through this phase is pro town considering the fact that we're deciding roles for the mafia team.

Oh ty bae

"I have been ready to play the game since I voted" is a horrid excuse to rush this phase of the game, especially considering that you're playing the game right now. Like, weren't you the person that was saying people should start FOSing/voting people? Why do you suddenly think that rushing this will transition you into 'playing the game'?

Rushing this phase is not fine. What the ****?

Also not everyone is forced to participate in FOS'ing people lmao. It's not a requirement to vote, Ranmaru. Just because people haven't developed enough reads to be suspicious of people yet doesn't mean that when day one starts people will suddenly decide that it's time to start finding people suspicious. The reason why people haven't been voting/FOS'ing people is because there hasn't been noteworthy discussion until like late page 7/page 8 that was vote-worthy.

Everything that you can do in D1 you can do now except for the actual vote. Stop trying to rush this important part of the game.

I still refuse to vote Janitor because we don't need to have a D1 with no information.

I don't want Vengeful because the second that a PR is claimed, vengeful removes it from the game completely regardless of the doc existing or not.

lol rolecop.

Yeah my vote is staying on godfather. :|

I'll also think about it.

Vote: Vengeful

Yeah I'm not voting Janitor.

people should switch to vengeful. only need two

Spoiler: Day 1 Joey

Oh look, Ran suspecting me for disliking his slot. This is new.

Vote: Ranmaru

Yeah I still don't like you trying to rush the role voting phase. You mention page 16, yet you started to rush it on Page 8. Why are you bringing page 16 up when it has nothing to do with my suspicion towards you? Also, go through hoops? We literally discussed the roles that we thought would give town the best potential outcome in this game (something we are supposed to be doing regardless) and we got reads out of that. How is that going through hoops?

Also, I'm voting you because how you wanted to play that out was suspicious. You were trying to rush the voting phase before people like myself and Red Ryu could get in to comment (you even mentioned that we weren't posting much yourself), which is suspicious. You calling it a difference of opinions is simply incorrect.

Now you're sitting on two scum reads via OMGUS (and you even had to say that the third person suspecting you wasn't scum-read worthy because he's inexperienced) aside from one comment towards Gheb about him trying to get the masonizer to claim.

Your scum-reads are bad and your handling of the role voting phase was horrid.

Just because the words "scum hunt" weren't mentioned doesn't mean we had to put in a ton of effort in order to get reads. Reads came along naturally because disagreements happened.



It's not the fact that I could or couldn't have posted more. It's the fact that if you were to be successful with your intentions, then you would have shut down the opportunity for people such as myself (that weren't as active in the first 8 pages) to throw in our opinion, meaning you wouldn't have gotten all of the town's thoughts on the roles.

You weren't close because the phase wasn't rushed. If you were to be successful in rushing the phase, then yes you would have stopped myself and Ryu (more-so Ryu since I mostly agreed with Gheb) amongst others from posting our thoughts which would have stopped conversation, plus the discussion between me and you would have never happened. "You know I like to play the early game" doesn't apply when you were attempting to shut down part of the early game.

The game didn't stagnate until almost 8 pages later than when you were initially trying to rush the phase, so saying that it's pro-scum to let the game stagnate doesn't apply since there were multiple people that haven't shared their thoughts (which is why it took so long to get through the phase).



I stated my opinion on each role. I didn't go big into discussion because Gheb summed everything up really nicely. The people that didn't want Janitor were people that recently got screwed over by a janitor, while my lack of experience with roles like masonizer + godfather and vengeful mafia made me more uninformed on the topic than most. Regardless, the anti-janitor side was really clear in saying that we as a town needed as much information as we could get, and the janitor role ruined that for us. Like, it's really straight forward.

I feel better about Ranmaru after his last response to me. Not going to bother replying since he said he wasn't going to discuss it further.

JeXs what makes Gheb's aggression in this game different than literally any other Gheb game ever?

Unvote

Vote: JeXs

Yeah that doesn't change my question in the slightest.

You said his aggression was fake. I don't see how it's different from any other game that Gheb has played in that would make you see it as fake.

Have you ever played a game with Gheb?

How is this different than any other game that Gheb has been in. What makes this anger fake? Are you saying this based on this game specifically and not his meta or are you including his meta? I don't understand how you come to this conclusion nor do I understand how you can use this as reasoning to push his slot.



My confidence in JeXs scum depends on how he responds to me.

Jaytheunseen is someone I need to re-read. I don't remember his early game posts outside of making excuses not to vote one way or the other for whatever reason (I don't understand why not voting for a specific role would be scummy though), but I agree that I don't like his current play. I may or may not want him dead more than JeXs depending on how JeXs responds to me.

Other scum reads will come later (mostly because I don't have my thoughts sorted out yet).

@Alakaslam why was I a "maybe", and you need to give reasoning for your read on JeXs.

@Zenny "He does get bored as mafia, but I don't think he'd be anymore excited to play D1 than he would D0." needs to be defined more. I don't understand why you would think like this and check him out as a town read when both you and him were pushing a "scum benefit from discussion in this phase a lot" meaning that him wanting to stay in that phase would be suspicious.

What? Can someone confirm this for me? I don't remember this from Gheb at all (unless you're someone like Laundry or Ramses, but no one in this game is a Laundry or Ramses).



I want to see Maven respond to Ranmaru before I add too much there.

Oh, I guess Ranmaru didn't question what I wanted to question. Oops.

@ Maven89 I agree that JeXs thinking that the vig should shoot every night is weird, but why would mafia bank on that being a thing? Why is that not null? Also, "He gets angry as mafia" is not a legitimate reason to be suspicious of anyone ever. :|

Okay I've thought about things a bit (and I played videogames)

@ JeXs Gheb push is simply disgusting. Not only is the reasoning behind it horrid in general (angry Gheb? Really?), but it also doesn't line up meta-wise. Trying to say that Gheb cooperates as town over scum is BS. Gheb always plays with a "be aggressive but cooperate with people that will get me closer to winning or can help me reach my goals" mentality, and it's obvious in any game I recall being in with him. The first one that comes to mind is swag mafia where he was scum and cooperated with slots like Ryker in order to get closer to his goal. If there was anyone he felt he could get something from in this game, he'd probably be working with them. The fact that he started out this game cooperating in order to get what he wanted with his Godfather role shows this. This read alone is probably one of the most BS reads I've seen.

Outside of his Gheb push, he has a scum read on Maven, which hasn't been pushed aside from when he attempted to reflect my pressure from himself onto Maven. I do not like that JeXs did this either. While Maven's crappy meta read on JeXs was questionable, the fact that Maven's vote is elsewhere shows that JeXs is more of a weaker read or gut read than anything else for him. Him trying to compare himself to Maven in order to get my thoughts off of him is disgusting. Outside of his really bad push and his not-really-a push, he hasn't done **** D1. I don't have an opinion of his D0 play because it was just spouting for Janitor and that's null. JeXs can die.

@ ~ Gheb ~ is null. Him being stubborn like this is definitely not pro town (or pro scum), but with how Ranmaru is playing regarding almost everyone that pushed Godfather, I can't disagree with him. He's being very stubborn and not discussing things with town, and I don't like that, but that's not indicating of alignment (ESPECIALLY for someone like Gheb). If Ranmaru is getting away with OMGUS'ing three slots and having to say "Maven isn't included because he's inexperienced" to the only other slot pressuring him (which is null for Ranmaru specifically but would be scummy for other players), I'm not going to turn around and vote Gheb for being stubborn.

@ ranmaru I agree with Maven. Ranmaru's play is just crappy in general. Not scummy (or townie). It's just crappy. He's playing the "if you agree with me, you're town, but if you don't, you're suspicious or inexperienced" thought process right now, and it's really obvious with how he's handling literally all of the active slots so far. That's not scummy of course, it's just bad lmao. He's just playing horribly. Ranmaru isn't a scum read for me. He's just null. Although I don't like how he's pushing Gheb so hard for something so null.

@ Maven89 I like Maven. Maven is a cool guy, and I've seen where his thoughts are coming from more than any other slot this game. I feel like I'm in a hydra with him they're so similar (at least prior to making this post lmao). He's the most townie slot to me in this game.

@Zenny I'm neutral to most of what Zen has said. His defense towards Ranmaru was really disgusting, and I can't see why anyone would think that after both Zen himself and Ranmaru were both saying "STAYING IN THIS PHASE IS GOOD FOR SCUM!" that scumRan wouldn't run into Day 1 just as easily if not easier than townRan. You're literally asking for scum to push into Day 1 in order to get two people off of their back temporarily. That mindset is gross. Like I said, though, I'm neutral to almost everything Zen has said outside of this.

@ JayTheUnseen is probably the last slot to actually comment on. To put it simply, he's a new player, and that much is really obvious. I'm not going to lynch him just because he's asking "Why are you focusing on me specifically when other people are doing the same thing". I'd like for him to... you know... actually answer people, but him wondering about why he's not getting equal treatment when compared to slots that Ranmaru isn't attacking is kinda null. I'm not against voting him if it came down to it, but that's it.

My lynch preference is JeXs >>>> JayTheUnseen > Ranmaru (I'd barely lynch Ranmaru over an inactive).

My vote is staying on JeXs.

Oh I forgot about Alakaslam. He's done literally nothing useful and I'd put him with the inactives honestly.



What? How in the hell are you town reading Alakaslam when literally all he has done is follow you and made it obvious that he was joking + one post with questions that could potentially have no point from him? Your latest town read thoughts on him was that he wasn't following town meta, and that's a load of bull**** read-wise. He's literally done nothing useful in this game.

It's not that we don't understand him, it's that he's not doing anything worthwhile. He's sitting on reads without any reasoning behind them aside from following you.

How is anyone not null-reading this slot?

Also, he's not better than Gheb. At least Gheb has put some type of reason behind his read on you that isn't "I'm following kawaiileader69chan because he's supersugoitown nyaa ~swoon~ <3 <3".

These are 90% of Joey's posts this whole game. First half, is his posts in D0. Second half is his posts in D1. His scumminess is more apparent D1, than D0. The only reason I was able to see scum in him was due to his reaction to me on D0, nothing else. To put it succinctly, Maven was the person to have a problem with me rushing the phase. Then Joey came in agreeing. I feel this was opportunistic, more than actually Joey feeling he found scum. I see it as him taking advantage of Maven's moments of being wrong. The very few posts I have left out are his very last interactions with Jex. I have posted up the quotes, but I will also give highlights of what I feel sticks out to me.

Highlights Next.

 

[ranmaru]

Vote: Vengeful

Yeah I'm not voting Janitor.

Comes across as stubborn. Doesn't try to argue to progress phase, when he has a problem with phase being rushed. This is one of the examples (and more obvious) to see that he isn't trying to progress the phase. Some of his posts are similar to this.

Now you're sitting on two scum reads via OMGUS (and you even had to say that the third person suspecting you wasn't scum-read worthy because he's inexperienced) aside from one comment towards Gheb about him trying to get the masonizer to claim.

Again, his concern with me rushing the phase is due to a disagreement. He tried to twist my actions, for example, he states that me stating that Maven isn't scummy is because he is wrong. I never held maven as a scumread, and is trying to say I am omgusing him. He tries to use that as a point to support his push against me, which is ridiculous.

I feel better about Ranmaru after his last response to me. Not going to bother replying since he said he wasn't going to discuss it further.

JeXs what makes Gheb's aggression in this game different than literally any other Gheb game ever?

Now, after a long while, Joey backs down on his push on me, saying he feels better about me due to my last response to him. I was never convincecd that it was my post that made him want to back off. The consensus on me being town came together, and he felt it was not fruitful to continue the push, that is why he stopped. He could have replied at least with answers to my answers as to why, it is moot now since he dropped the push. This shows he never cared to understand my perspective with the push, he simply wanted to push it and when it wasn't beneficial to him, he left it.

Unvote

Vote: JeXs

Second, his sudden switch to JeXs was opportunistic, and not him exhausting another lead. He didn't really have a real reason to push Jex, he was just pushing him because Jex was an easy push with his gut/slight reasoning for voting Gheb. Let me repeat, as soon as he backed off, he switched suddenly. As town, when you need to re-evaluate, it should take some time before you are able to switch gears. Yet he already had Jex in mind, without a real reason to even start the push.

His push was indirect. Meaning, he quotes Jex's reasoning, and simply goes "Ew, this is disgusting" and then tries to twist it. This is done because as scum, you have to lie about your suspicions, and it is easy to dislike a trivial action by simply being disgusted by it. I know because I have done it before as scum. You can't directly state what it is that is suspicious and why the person has scum intent. Just that the thing they did is disgusting. Easier to say it that way.

Yeah that doesn't change my question in the slightest.

You said his aggression was fake. I don't see how it's different from any other game that Gheb has played in that would make you see it as fake.

Joey has been pushing hard on Jex, who has been more of a null. What joey does is try to force Jex's reasoning into something scummy. He basically disagrees with Joey on his gheb stance, and Jex makes a good point:

also why do you think im scum?

to show that Joey never had a real reason to push him. The red shows his actual 'dislike' for him. This is not a basis to lynch someone off.

Have you ever played a game with Gheb?

My confidence in JeXs scum depends on how he responds to me.

Joey even brings up meta on a game that Jex wasn't even talking about. You can tell Joey has no reason to push Jexs when he has to ask "Have you played a game with gheb before" because he started pushing Jex while assuming Jex KNEW how gheb played. Meaning Joey didn't know if Jex had as much meta info as Joey expected him to. "You should know how gheb plays, but wait, have you played with gheb?" < That thought process makes no sense.

Okay I've thought about things a bit (and I played videogames)

@ JeXs Gheb push is simply disgusting. Not only is the reasoning behind it horrid in general (angry Gheb? Really?), but it also doesn't line up meta-wise.

Outside of his Gheb push, he has a scum read on Maven, which hasn't been pushed aside from when he attempted to reflect my pressure from himself onto Maven. I do not like that JeXs did this either.

@ ranmaru I agree with Maven. Ranmaru's play is just crappy in general. Not scummy (or townie). It's just crappy.

@ Maven89 I like Maven. Maven is a cool guy, and I've seen where his thoughts are coming from more than any other slot this game.

In the final post I bring up, Joey shows his conclusions on his reads. On JexS, he states that his gheb push is disgusting and his meta reasoning is weak. This reasoning isn't convincing enough, and he doesn't stop to consider JexS's experience with Gheb in other games.

Even though Joey stated he felt better about my response to him, he lists me as being null for 'crappy' play. This is the only way he can salvage his push and back off, and is the only player (besides gheb?) to say this.

Summary Next.

 

[ranmaru]

1. He tries to twist some of my words to support his push on me. (Maven omgus point)

2. Sudden, Opportunic switch to Jex without any real suspicion of him, just a disagreement/question.

3. States he isn't confident at the start of his push, but forces his way to make it a confident one to the point of being fine with his lynch by the time he solidifies his reads.

4. Keeps me at null to keep his options open for later. (As you can see, he has me third on his lynch list regardless)

5. Thought process doesn't make sense wrt his push on Jex's reasoning. "You should know how Gheb plays, but wait, have you played with Gheb before?" It shows that his push on Jex was pre-mature. If he were town, he'd ask if he had played with Gheb before pushing him. Yet, he was too thirsty for JexY, and jumped immediately.

6. Even though he dropped his push on me, he never replied to my questions, such as "Why does it make me scum and not town", to see if he could see my perspective. This shows that he doesn't care about reading me, but only that pushing me right now is not beneficial to him, and therefore he chooses to go after Jex for a disagreement of reads.

Unvote Vote: Joey

 

[ranmaru]

Can someone other than me give a read on Alakaslam for me.

He will be borderline unreadable to me.

He's town. I can read him, and Death Note mafia is proof. As this game went on, he got better to me. I am obviously not talking about his animal spirit posts lol.

 

[JayTheUnseen]

Comes across as stubborn. Doesn't try to argue to progress phase, when he has a problem with phase being rushed. This is one of the examples (and more obvious) to see that he isn't trying to progress the phase. Some of his posts are similar to this.



Again, his concern with me rushing the phase is due to a disagreement. He tried to twist my actions, for example, he states that me stating that Maven isn't scummy is because he is wrong. I never held maven as a scumread, and is trying to say I am omgusing him. He tries to use that as a point to support his push against me, which is ridiculous.



Now, after a long while, Joey backs down on his push on me, saying he feels better about me due to my last response to him. I was never convincecd that it was my post that made him want to back off. The consensus on me being town came together, and he felt it was not fruitful to continue the push, that is why he stopped. He could have replied at least with answers to my answers as to why, it is moot now since he dropped the push. This shows he never cared to understand my perspective with the push, he simply wanted to push it and when it wasn't beneficial to him, he left it.



Second, his sudden switch to JeXs was opportunistic, and not him exhausting another lead. He didn't really have a real reason to push Jex, he was just pushing him because Jex was an easy push with his gut/slight reasoning for voting Gheb. Let me repeat, as soon as he backed off, he switched suddenly. As town, when you need to re-evaluate, it should take some time before you are able to switch gears. Yet he already had Jex in mind, without a real reason to even start the push.

His push was indirect. Meaning, he quotes Jex's reasoning, and simply goes "Ew, this is disgusting" and then tries to twist it. This is done because as scum, you have to lie about your suspicions, and it is easy to dislike a trivial action by simply being disgusted by it. I know because I have done it before as scum. You can't directly state what it is that is suspicious and why the person has scum intent. Just that the thing they did is disgusting. Easier to say it that way.



Joey has been pushing hard on Jex, who has been more of a null. What joey does is try to force Jex's reasoning into something scummy. He basically disagrees with Joey on his gheb stance, and Jex makes a good point:



to show that Joey never had a real reason to push him. The red shows his actual 'dislike' for him. This is not a basis to lynch someone off.



Joey even brings up meta on a game that Jex wasn't even talking about. You can tell Joey has no reason to push Jexs when he has to ask "Have you played a game with gheb before" because he started pushing Jex while assuming Jex KNEW how gheb played. Meaning Joey didn't know if Jex had as much meta info as Joey expected him to. "You should know how gheb plays, but wait, have you played with gheb?" < That thought process makes no sense.



In the final post I bring up, Joey shows his conclusions on his reads. On JexS, he states that his gheb push is disgusting and his meta reasoning is weak. This reasoning isn't convincing enough, and he doesn't stop to consider JexS's experience with Gheb in other games.

Even though Joey stated he felt better about my response to him, he lists me as being null for 'crappy' play. This is the only way he can salvage his push and back off, and is the only player (besides gheb?) to say this.

Summary Next.

He's town. I can read him, and Death Note mafia is proof. As this game went on, he got better to me. I am obviously not talking about his animal spirit posts lol.

These posts are looking very town oriented.
I can see I may have been being paranoid regarding his questionings earlier.

Unvote Ran
Vote Wots

 

[ranmaru]

You have shown no signs of looking at my posts against you as coming from a town view,please do so.
@ ~ Gheb ~ do you feel he was pushing me?If so,do you think it is more scum-proof?\

I have done so. You never responded to it entirely. I kept asking you as well. I'll link it to you now. Here it is: #804

Also, important question. What did you find 'town orienting' about my post? Why vote Wots? (I'm not pushing, I'm just questioning here, just my nature)

@Ranmaru your thoughts on JeXs?
@ JeXs your thoughts on Ran?

JexS: Null. No problems with em.

 

[ranmaru]

Also, opinion on RosilanaSGS?

 

[ranmaru]

Also Ran, please review over JeXs again. He's playing...peculiar, but I think it could possibly be that thing we discussed as Amidamaru. Let me know what you think.

Will do. Just give me some time. I'll update you after a while.

 

[JayTheUnseen]

I have done so. You never responded to it entirely. I kept asking you as well. I'll link it to you now. Here it is: #804

Also, important question. What did you find 'town orienting' about my post? Why vote Wots? (I'm not pushing, I'm just questioning here, just my nature)



JexS: Null. No problems with em.

If this doesn't answer I'll have to ask you to re-word it.

So your question is,why did I scum-read even after backing down?
Well.My scum read was first based off your actions on d0.However when I re-read them,I no longer found them as incriminating as I did before.
So,I backed off from that lead.But,I gained new suspicions on you due to your questionings at the that time, which I felt were unwarranted.

Now,how did your last few posts seem town?
Well,

1.Picking apart Joey's game carefully.Scum wouldn't need to do this, could instead just vote him while giving loose reasons.
2.Calling out Joey for using tactics beneficial for scum( changing votes suddenly, ignoring questions, forced 'reads' ).Scum wouldn't want to do this.

I won't say where I stand between you and Joey at the moment,I need to look at it carefully first.

Now, regarding the Wots vote,it's a push.He didn't acknowledge my request to post more, and he's stayed out of things. So I'd like to force him to say more.

 

[ranmaru]

Fair enough. Your avatar is cute btw.

 

[Dooms]

Yeah I'll get to this after the weekend lmao. Apex + Smash4 + not caring about mafia too strong.

 

[JayTheUnseen]

Vote: Jaytheunseen

I want more solid stances, though I am on page 16 on the reread.

You need to die.

Then I gotta think about Joey and Jex.

Please elaborate more,this dosen't tell me much.

Also, opinion on RosilanaSGS?

Forgot to answer earlier.His play is identical to his play in Gheb's mini, where he was town. I don't think that's enough proof he's town,
but I see no scum intent in him right now.

 

[ranmaru]

I want to mention it took Jay 1 minute after my post to decide to get off me. I will update my thoughts on him later.

 

[ranmaru]

Alakaslam, what animal do you think I am? Why?
Red Ryu, opinion of Jay's sudden switch?