pick yur poison | ovah

~ Gheb ~

Life is just a party
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Was pretty clear that town would lose after Janitor got a majority. Not just because the role is OP [turned out that scum didn't even need it to begin with] but because the fact that it got a majority in the first place went to show an incredible amount of ingorance and short sightedness of the townies in this game.

Ideal roles for scum to give town are Vig, Cop and Doc. The fact that we got WDoc instead of Cop was a pretty hefty boost that got obsoleted by terrible play. @ Dooms Dooms did you leave any breadcrumbs that you'd visit Zen? I know you probably expected to get RB'd but a crumb still could've helped us. @ Maven89 Maven89 why the **** did you shoot me? I ws so ****ing blatant this game lmao. I've literally broke down exactly the ideal course of action for the town on D0. Your play was actually fine [most of your reads were right for the right reason] but you made some terrible decisions shooting me and giving in to the Janitor peer pressure instead of trusting yourself. Learn from it, you're improving a lot already. @ Wots All This Then? Wots All This Then? I think you did actually fine and played the role of a Doc pretty much the way it should. Too bad you were never able to make use of your Doc ability. Doc + WDoc can provide some insame cockblocking against the mafia. Oh well.

Ideal roles for town to give scum obviously would've been Godfather and Roleblocker. No way in hell would they be stupid enough to give us the masonizer. My biggest regret is that I failed to pick up how scummy Zen's arguments against the Godfather were. Janitor is a horrible, horrible role that should never be given to scum, especially if it covers up LYNCHES. Everybody who argues in favor of giving mafia a Janitor [over nearly any other role] deserves death. Hell, I probably would've given them the rolecop before I would've given them the Janitor.

Liked Ryu's, Joey's and Maven's dayplay. All 3 were ridiulously blatant and it could've been very much possible for town to PoE the rest of the game. Too bad 2 of them died N1. WATT and Jexs' picked up way too late and Jay/Seal were left hanging in the air pretty much all game. Overall it's a well deserved loss for terrible play.

:059:
 
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Was pretty clear that town would lose after Janitor got a majority. Not just because the role is OP [turned out that scum didn't even need it to begin with] but because the fact that it got a majority in the first place went to show an incredible amount of ingorance and short sightedness of the townies in this game.

Ideal roles for scum to give town are Vig, Cop and Doc. The fact that we got WDoc instead of Cop was a pretty hefty boost that got obsoleted by terrible play. @ Dooms Dooms did you leave any breadcrumbs that you'd visit Zen? I know you probably expected to get RB'd but a crumb still could've helped us. @ Maven89 Maven89 why the **** did you shoot me? I ws so ****ing blatant this game lmao. I've literally broke down exactly the ideal course of action for the town on D0. Your play was actually fine [most of your reads were right for the right reason] but you made some terrible decisions shooting me and giving in to the Janitor peer pressure instead of trusting yourself. Learn from it, you're improving a lot already. @ Wots All This Then? Wots All This Then? I think you did actually fine and played the role of a Doc pretty much the way it should. Too bad you were never able to make use of your Doc ability. Doc + WDoc can provide some insame cockblocking against the mafia. Oh well.

Ideal roles for town to give scum obviously would've been Godfather and Roleblocker. No way in hell would they be stupid enough to give us the masonizer. My biggest regret is that I failed to pick up how scummy Zen's arguments against the Godfather were. Janitor is a horrible, horrible role that should never be given to scum, especially if it covers up LYNCHES. Everybody who argues in favor of giving mafia a Janitor [over nearly any other role] deserves death. Hell, I probably would've given them the rolecop before I would've given them the Janitor.

Liked Ryu's, Joey's and Maven's dayplay. All 3 were ridiulously blatant and it could've been very much possible for town to PoE the rest of the game. Too bad 2 of them died N1. WATT and Jexs' picked up way too late and Jay/Seal were left hanging in the air pretty much all game. Overall it's a well deserved loss for terrible play.

:059:
PoE?
 

Ranmaru

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These things happen sometimes sadly.


@ Ranmaru Ranmaru

I've still got to know though, what was with you this game? You played the most anti-town I've ever seen, ending D0 early and giving mafia their pick of roles, then hard pushing Town PR Joey on very little and acting super abrasive when we asked about it. It was mad weird and we basically had no choice but to get rid of you. I don't understand what happened.
I played really bad. My dislike for roles got me bored and I wanted to D1. Joey... I was serious about. But I compromised thinking "I don't wanna risk it". My reads were bad.
 

Dooms

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I apologize to JeXs for getting him so riled up when that wasn't my intention. :c

I did not breadcrumb that I was going to protect Zen. Good thing I didn't, because it was actually more of a last minute decision and that crumb would have been directed towards JeXs. I thought leaving in a pool of two would be enough. Sorry. I'm really bad with investigative roles (I also don't know how to crumb properly without it being obvious). >__<
 

Maven89

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Yeah I can't really justify the Gheb shot. Honestly I was confused this game because I couldn't see which of the two camps were scum, even with Ranmaru's death. I actually sent the shot in three times, switching between Jex and Gheb, but by the time the day came up it was still on Gheb.

Jex I was shocked was town, especially with him offering for us to sacrifice him in Ranmaru's place and saying things like "but if ranmaru's town i'm town, right?". Honestly I still don't comprehend it

I told you all Alakaslam sucked and should have been lynched right at the start, but nooo, we looooove randomness, lol maven isn't he funny
 

JeXs

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Jex I was shocked was town, especially with him offering for us to sacrifice him in Ranmaru's place and saying things like "but if ranmaru's town i'm town, right?". Honestly I still don't comprehend it
Btw I actually said "If I'm town then Ranmaru is town, right?" and not the other way round lol. I said that because people were saying stuff like "If Ranmaru is scum then JeXs definitely is"
 

Xivii

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Janitor is simply amazing. It allows for so much flexibility. I didn't see that until some of the arguments came up. The more the day went on the more I was like oh yeah I want this. The full extent of its power didn't hit me until day 1 though. It could allow scum to hard push anyone without repercussion, give them a free phase (basically making the game 2 days even if it went to day 3), used or not used to WIFOM, or used to CC.

The double roleblock was the most important thing though. So long as we had that, the other PR could of been any of the others.

It's hard to say which of the roles I would have argued for as town. I would probably have had a similar view to Ranmaru. While I would have utilized the day to scum hunt, I probably wouldn't care too much which roles were actually chosen in the end. I think town would have convinced me against jan at least.
 

Xivii

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Also Zenny were you hinting that you were the mason Day 0? Because I was definitely getting that
Yes, the hard push against gf was from that mind set; as well as speaking in a point of view as if mason were in the game, explaining to Gheb there was no chance of mason claiming, and the pretty princess alliance thing. I would have sited that post had I decided to go that route. My original plan was to PRCC Wott day 2 and have the final lynch be between the two of us, but after having to put the scumbuddy-mason-recruit tactic out on the table in order to get jan and after seeing how hard ran and jexs were going into day 1, I decided against it, and to have the final be between me and jexs.

(Then wott provided us the gift of that gambit so we ended up doing the mason cc anyway heh)
 

Xivii

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And also yeah thats what I was getting at when I was saying to think back to 7Deadly. Was hoping that was enough to keep you off my tail for the night.
 
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Maven89

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embarrassing as it is I was trying to bait your mason recruit and was half expecting it when the day started.

I really need to work on breadcrumbing. This was the fist time I tried to hint at a PR but I was way too obvious. I basically just straight up claimed when I answered Janitor to the gheb question.

edit: why is the word embarrass being replaced with an embarrassed smiley face when you type it with the capital E? seriously try it out
 
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JayTheUnseen

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I'm going to play a bit more reserved next time.
If I'd stepped back a bit and tried to clear my mind of old reads I might could've seen the truth in a lot more situations.

Also, looking back, ugh, the whole game just about was town vs town.
 

Xivii

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Scum Convo:

Night 0
You are a part of the mafia. Each night the three of you can choose a player in the town to kill, though you are not forced to. Before the game begins, the three of you have 48 hours to talk and decide on which three poweroles the town will have, from the list of five given in the rules post. Because of the importance of the decision, I'd like confirmation from at least two of you as to the choices being made. Oh, and remember, you can communicate in private with your partners at any point during the game.

You win when the town no longer has the majority.
Most excellent. What's up scumbags.

Quick Questions:
-Rosalina, have you ever been mafia before?
-Was Laundry/Gheb mini your first game?
-Do the two of you have/use skype?
Let me know your thoughts on which PRs we should pick. I'll be back tomorrow evening.
yo who DAFUQ yu callin a scumbag boi?
I have been mafia before, not in forum mafia, but in a very similar form I played at maths camp. The Laundry game was my first forum one, but I have outside experience. However, my mafia game isn't that good, but I can try. And I do have skype.

As for PRs, I say a weak doc for sure, and also maybe normal doc and cop.
Vigilante and Masoniser are simply too strong. Vig means that if two mafia are found, they can be simulaneously killed, and vig also gets one more hammer.
Masoniser basically allows two checks for allegiance. In a game with 12 people, this can be very powerful in the endgame. Also, it allows 2 people to be guaranteed inno, and then we can't kill either of them as they would then get another chance to guarantee someone's allegiance.
Cop is also quite powerful, but their sanity can only be found out after 2 turns, which gives us a bit of breathing space. As for doc, it can really only help cop, which doesn't help that much. However, with two docs, the cop can become really safe and therefore powerful. I'm tossing up between masoniser and cop, as docs would become less useful without a doc, but masoniser is really powerful, just on its own.
Actually, on second thoughts, I think a masoniser is weaker than a cop. Cop can check any of us, even if we seem extremely innocent. And the 2 previous checks which I thought were breathing space aren't actually, as they would be revealed when the cop's sanity is. So I think we should probably have doc and weak doc and masoniser.
Hey marshy can you let Slam know the game started on OMGUS? I can't remember my password.
@Rosalina

I think you were right the first time. I think Masonizer is the most powerful of them all unless we were guaranteed to get Godfather. I'd like to avoid Masonizer at all cost.

I definitely agree with Weak Doc for sure and probably having another Doc. The only problem with that is that if the two of them claim, they can Doc each other to eternity.

Vigilante is Risky only because there's a high chance of Slam being shot. Otherwise I think it would actually be more in our benefit because I'm very confident in our ability to be very towny.

I think Cop is weaker than masonizer, because it may take a bit of time before they figure out their sanity. And we may be able to find them before they do. The thing with masonizer is that even if we are able to kill one of them N2, they will still have another shot. Too many guaranteed clears. And the ability to communicate privately with a clear is a very powerful force in this game.

For me I would say Weak Doc for sure. A Cop second. And then either Reg Doc or Vig. If the two of you think you can avoid getting Vigged, the second is the better option. Otherwise we will have to risk the eternal doccing.
yeah i hit im up on dere earlier 2day
Honestly I kind of like the idea of having no investigative roles at all, i.e: Weak Doc, Doc, Vig. If we play active enough, the vig will off townies for us, and we have the potential of attracting docs towards us (free death if weak doc protects one of us). Again, the thing with two Docs is the claiming. It seems to me that it would be in Weak Doc's best interest to claim. And if Regular Doc is smart enough, he would claim after that and do the protection combo. While on the other hand we'd have vig going about offing people outside of the doc claims.
@ marshy
1. Is town informed which 3 PRs scum chooses?
2. The Janitor can only cover up lynches, not night kills?
3. After scum's perks are chosen, can we choose to give both of them to the same person?
Now that I think about it, vig does appear to be the weakest. I just don't like the thought of allowing one person to hold such power, especially near the endgame, but cop and masoniser are too powerful. However, this does mean godfather is useless. Still, I think we should go 2 docs, and vig, and try to make sure they don't choose godfather. However, when doing so, make sure you still maintain a facade of innocence.
-long strategy weak doc claim gambit post-
1 no
2 correct. ONLY lynches are covered up
3 no they must be given 2 different *****z

all dis info waz found in da op btw. jus so yall dont gotta wait on me next time
I couldn't find the first one, I was just making sure.
I feel your plan is extremely risky. Almost every step requires precise actions on the part of us and the others. Consider the case someone sees through your bluff, and states that you may be mafia, and that they didn't choose weak doc specificallly so that you may claim. Our entire plan may go down the drain, cop might check you just to make sure, you might be lynched, or killed by vig, and they get a cop and a mason. It is far too risky in my opinion.
It is definitely extremely risky (hence why I named it The Quack's Gambit :p), though the pay off is also enormous, and I have the utmost confidence in our ability to pull it off and my ability to play in a genuine manner. After Claiming Weak Doc, the chance of Cop investigating me would be quite low. They would just feel it was a waste. Furthermore, I'm pretty known to go about games in such unorthodox ways. It is not something very strange for Zen to do. To fully carry it out though, it would, of course, require both of your confidence as well.

Let me just say this, this game is about blending in with town via the use of PRs. If scum cannot achieve this, they will lose. The only way we can control which PRs we obtain is through some Day 0 gambit. And I believe the Weak Doc gambit is the best way to go. Not only does it provide the benefits I gave in the post above, but it severely reduces the usefulness of the town PRs:

-The Doc is completely eliminated as a barrier as he will be protecting me for the entire game.
-It will be very unlikely that cop investigates me. It cop investigates Slam, then that's No prob cause we obtained GF. If cop investigates Rose, Mason will have to counter claim cop.
-Mason (and cop) is forced to play in a game with a GF.
Also this seems to me the pathway to the quickest victory, which is the strategy I tend to take as scum. I feel like more content we allow Town to produce, the more likely they will be able to detect scum. And it's kind of hard for me to continue pushing mislynches without being noticed, especially with a Town Ranmaru in the game.
But anyways, the decision rest with you. That is my take on it. If we don't go with this plan we should go with your first instinct of Doc-WDoc-Cop. I'm not sure if you've played with Slam, but he has a very unorthodox playstyle that is almost certain to get him Vigged if there is one in the game.
Faaaaak you guys talk too much

So I just got over a huge work drama wassup

Btw zen Imma go mess with your password and regnant you accents to tour account now while I am sleep deprive drunk so that the password will be funny
+1 we win this is it marsh
I still think there exist quite a large number of holes in your plan. Near the end of the game, people will claim, and when cop claims, the final PR will know something is up. In addition, I find it unlikely we'll be able to force them to choose Godfather, especially as Cop and Masoniser will try to prevent that happening.
If we use my plan, we can easily ensure they don't force a godfather on us, and our PRs are useful, and they have no investigative roles.
IMO godfather always useless
Ranmaru will know me instantly btw
not really, if a mason accidentally pairs with a GF, he's basically guaranteed to survive till LYLO. Plus, GF can cause the villagers to doubt the authenticity of cop and mason investigations.
And if Slam will be noticed quickly, the gambit is considerably more likely to fail.
I love all-or-nothing stuff but I think I am going to be hurting for time. I am in another game and I have work drama.

However still reading
Zen bro

The way you are saying to get me masonry is by saying "we need to investigate via mason"

K cool

Then I go be in-credible

This gets me masovestigated

Then somehow I am to have retained enough credible to convince the fool that he is to not claim?

W

T

F

He will want to tell town that I am all good
Besides ppl will call bs on investigating with mason because that will look like scum plot to out the mason.
I just think that is an incredibly risky plan and is highly unlikely to work. I greatly prefer my plan of 2 docs and 1 vig
The thing about it is that even if the rest of the plan does not hold up, the weak doc claim isn't actually all that great of a risk. The worst case scenario is you lose me, but I doubt that will happen.

Also I can very much get them to pick the Godfather. And if Cop Masonizer argue against it, then we get the benefit of having clue as to who they are. In that case, we wont even need the Godfather. All we need is to know who the cop or Masonizer is so that we can Janitor them. Again though, we can pull it off.

I just don't want to be at Town's mercy. The Weak Doc Gambit puts us in control of the game. Most peeps as scum just try to get by, I like to guide town off the cliff.
@ slam True, this is a contradicting mindset here. I think the best plan of action then would be the "Mason Claims, Alak Claims" option. In other words, you support Mason's claim and we get the Cop lynched & Janitored.
Some thoughts and information on the players

I would say that, solely in terms of reads, Ranmaru is the best player in the game followed by JeXs. The latter is still developing though. The only player I am really worried about is Ranmaru.

Ranmaru
Not only is he the best at reads among the players, he also is good friends with me and Alak. So he will be expecting us to buddy and be uber pro-town with him. He is very active and very...insistent. If he notices something odd in your behavior, he will latch onto it. The best way to go about outplaying him is seriously to just be as authentically pro-town as you can possibly be. Play active and genuinely look for scum. It helps to imagine that there is an indy in the game that you are trying to find. Make sure that you do not post anything that you do cannot back up. And lastly, avoid making opportunistic pushes and randomly defending townies. Just be...analytic.

JeXs
He is very level-headed. He will not make immediate scum reads, and if he has you as scummy, you can always prove him otherwise. He is open to all the possibilities and will not latch on.

maven89
I don't know a lot about maven. I've only played a few games with him. He has spurts of lurking and active play.

wots all this then? (jdietz/orboknown)
My experience with this hydra has so far been riddled with inactivity. Both of the players are super busy and I believe Orbo has limited access so we don't really get full effort from this slot.

gheb
He is very to-the-book. To him Anti-Town play = Scum. Even if a town person is just playing badly, he will probably just have them in the scum list. The best way to get by him is to follow along with his reads.

red ryu
Town Red Ryu likes to tunnel me that's all I know, but that's usually when I'm town so. If he has you on your town list, you can often get him to defend you.

joey
Often goes inactive, but he's gotten a lot better at it. He's pretty straight-forward, I would say. And although he may sometimes come off as headstrong, he often questions himself. He also will defend you if he thinks your town.

jaytheunseen
I don't have any info on jay. Do you Rosalina?

seal
Seal has played mafia on other sites (about 15), but this will be his second game on Dgames. He was an easy scapegoat for mafia in the game I played with him, because he's still getting used to this style of mafia.



post-game note: i built up ran and jexs as the best players and they ended up playing abysmally heh. least my gheb spec was accurate
Again, Rosa, I will support whichever you decide. I am down with 2D1V if you feel that is the best way to go.
I've done things like this before btw and they do work.

Here's an example

That game was finished by the end of D2. When you have a plan of action like this, I find it is much easier to win than simply moving along with the flow of town and reacting to the immediate situations. It's much more rewarding too once it's seen through.

It often feels more iffy than it is because of our scum bias. As scum we have the tendency to perceive our actions as scummier than they actually are. What is glaringly obvious to a scum member, completely glazes over town.
Just read rest of other page. Iight seems we're going with 2D1V. Let's do it.


@#HBC | marshy

Pick: Weak Doc
Pick: Doc
Pick Vig
It's just that I strongly object to such a scenario when preventing them from gaining investigative roles virtually guarantees our success. As long as we play innocent, it is impossible for them to realise who is actually scum. Whereas if they were given cop, we would be given a strict time limit in which to win, and we could easily be found out. Even a mason could be devastating, as either one of us are found out or they get to know someone is guaranteed town.

If we just put 2 docs, 1 vig, we can just pretend we're innocent, suggest plans etc., but we are more likely to win, especially with the PRs. After all, docs can pretty much only serve to delay, and vig is risky to use. I feel my way virtually guarantees our win, but is perhaps a bit boring, whereas your tactic will probably fail, but will definitely be more exciting. (Also, as Ramanru knows you, he may be expecting such a ploy.)

So, I don't actually know what I want: excitement, or victory. I'll leave it up to you guys, but will pick before the deadline if necessary.



As for Jay, I've only played once with him, and can't really judge his patterns like that. However, he would probably be expecting perfect plays from me, so I can't really suggest anything pro-mafia without undermining my integrity.
Actually, after re-reading, I like your plan, it's very ambitious, but entirely plausible. I'm perfectly willing to go with your plan, if you still are. However, you must still remember there are two investigative roles, and the chances of one of us being investigated are actually quite high, especially if we appear too innocent. They could just investigate to make sure. As such, I don't think I can last too long, but it should be quite fun.

Side note: one risk to this plan is Ramanru might see through you.
will start day wen i get 2 posts like this. *****z may change dey votez at any time but the decision iz locked once 2/3 of yall post da same choices in bold
Funny all the scum haz avatars of female cartoon

Marsh will lulz @
Honestly I am about to get pretty busy; though that never stops me from putting most my investment towards the game >_>. I'll adjust to whichever you decide. The hammer is yours. I firmly believe we can be victorious on either way. I have faith in your instincts for the better path.
I much prefer my plan. If it's revealed that you aren't Weak Doc, then our entire plan goes down the drain. Therefore,

Pick: Weak Doc, Doc, Vigilante

Day 0

It seems getting GF would have been easier than we imagined lol.

Dam Dietz goin in.
We will get our Roleblocks :demon:
Wots all this then is totally Regular Doc btw.
I'll take Janitor btw, just since I'm on 24/7.

I don't think it matters which of us has the Roleblocks.
:D

U good at rolehunt
Woops, none of us realised how good weak doc is
If Weak doc protects GF, do they still die?
I'm not quite sure, probably not

@#HBC | marshy


nvm
As long as we get RBer we will be fine. There's things we can do with either GF or Jan.
Why does marsh have so many alts?
As you see hydra accounts (two people on one account) are a normal thing in dgames. Most justify using them because one of the sides will be too busy to play the game on their own. I'd argue that most use them just cause they are fun to do though. Anyways marshy just has a lot of hydra accounts.

There's this perk of premium membership that allows you to link your accounts so that you can easily switch between them. Several months ago, one of the dgamers bought a large portion of dgamers premium membership so they could do this. Some (and by some I mean marshy) took that time to create as many hydras with other people as they could and link the accounts before the premium expired. So he made a lot of them then, though he still had accumulated many over the years to begin with.
yallve received da 2x roleblocker. who will take it?
Rosalina I think you should take it.
Rosalind gets it by popular vote
Am I supposed to vote janitor or disagree with you?
I have read it through, but I just want to confirm. If the weak doc is docced, then the weak doc cannot be killed, even by his own power, right?
Stop, not yet. Depending on what the other role is, it may be more suitable for me to have the other role.
After D0, do we go to N1 or D1?
After day 0 we go to day 1. Weak doc dies by his own role even if he's protected.
I have a plan with jan btw. There's a key element about it none of them have picked up on. We just need two more votes. Slam if you vote, ran will probably do so after. Im tryna get it hammered before gheb logs back on.

Post-Game Note: Slam disappeared. Ran put it at L-1, but Gheb did in fact have time to log back on in #485 pushing the debate through another day...
Yeah, your CC analysis was flawed, but that was probably intentional.
So close. Where art thou, Slam o:
What

I come and go
We done good.

Let's wait a day to assign the roles. We don't want them to be able to meta us from the times we were online.

Great work, both of you.

Role Assigment

@Marshy
If a mafia is weak docced and killed on the same night, does weak doc still die?
yes unless itz da godfather who chose 2 allow da weak doc 2 survive on a protection

also yall got some time 2 distribute 1x janitor + 2x roleblocker among yurselves. i understand wanting 2 wait a lil bit 4 da sake of cockblockin meta but dont go overboardz all i ask
I think I may as well take the RB. I'm not so sure about jan, since whoever gets it cannot be janned
They cannot glean much from me; I am the janitor

As for the female alliance, I will post the great feminine antics of Eilonwy at some point
dis iz how we gonna do dis so itz simplest

ONE of yall will post

a iz b. c iz d

da first i c doin dat i will IMMEDIATELY roll yall as such roles. dis way i dont hav 2 constantly make sure yall are in sync or whatever. work 2gether n communicate it simply 2 me
we should wait for zenny's approval. @ Xivii Xivii
Oh fine.

Zenny is the head of this outfit he says who is who.

:ws: unto zenny.
@Rosa

Using information outside from the game. In this case that would consist of our online activity. Since the mod enters the next phase as soon as we pick, some people could try and deduce who mafia was (or was not) based on if they were online at that time. For example, Gheb is always offline at this time (he lives in Austria). He usually comes online around 3AM my time. So if the phase started right now, he could be potentially cleared. I'll submit the choices in the morning. So by the time the next phase starts, every player would have had time to to log on.
@ slam imma take Jan for this reason if that's good with you:

Quote: I'll take Janitor btw, just since I'm on 24/7.

If there's an unexpected lynch and we need to use the jan quickly, I wanna make sure we're able to.
I coo wit dis

I like freedom to be irresponsible
Rosalina is Roleblocker. Zen is Janitor.

Day 1
Current PR Reads

Vig
Maven - JeXs

Doc
WOTT

WDoc
Jay - Ruy - ???


Still have strong vig feels from Mave (like 85%), but it's possible that JeXs is as well. Their spat around page 10 was full of each other trying to discern each others intention for talking about the vig.

Mave asking "What makes you so certain there's a Vig?" came off to me as him having the suspicion that JeXs had assigned the roles. But JeXs' response was also kind of viggish. Which would also explain why he was against vengeful.

Anyways, I'm going to subtly push these two against each other as much as possible so hopefully one will shoot the other.
I could be lying though
I find it funny how your blatant role fishing is just passed off as typical slap spam lol.
We are not a team

We are not a team

We are not a team.

You never

NEVER.

Defend me. I must defend myself.

If anything, use the fact that you know I am scum to get me lynched. Grab dat town cred with both hands and make a stash that will last you to retirement.
Well don't bus either. If any if my partners die, I completely lose motivation to play. If you push each other, it has to be on things that aren't actually really that scummy, otherwise you just end up bringing attention to one another that town wouldn't have noticed in the first place.
Bussing is awesome but yeah- we should be able to survive still if one of us dies
Bussing is bad here though, I see it but srs

We cannot defend each other to the dying breath or we lose 100%

I would rather not lose yes, but if i must be losing, I would rather just lose 33% or 66% but ultimately win
We will achieve flawless victory. Either by end of Day 2 or Day 3.

But I agree with this: We cannot defend each other to the dying breath or we lose 100%

But there are certain situations where it is right for one to do so. Rosalina's post wasn't one of them, but for example, based on your meta and establishment in the game, you could easily justify a read on me in the same way you have on Ran. And I could also defend you, and would defend you if it were necessary. That simply wont be likely to occur, however.

I don't think Rosa's post needs to be pressed very far if Ran doesn't notice it. He'd be the only to pick up on something like that. Although I would say, there are a bit of town members that have surprised me so far.
Ah.

I agree, reason I am not referring to you atm in thread is I wouldn't have even remembered you as you are lurking a bit.
By the way, if my fishing is correct maven is strong doc.
Was that actually fishing? How could you tell?
Psychological manipulation.

Doesn't always work but can work even if target knows what you are doing
oh, I think I get it
Tonight, I think we should kill WATT (If you're sure he's doc), and then Joey.
We'll have to see how things Pan out. I don't think we should waste a kill on Joey. I'm just going to direct him into protecting scum. It wont be too difficult to argue the uncertain reasons behind his death. If he doesn't die, then I also have a contingency. I'm aiming for 3 town deaths tonight. Joey, our night kill, and Maven's vig. Most likely I think we will probably end up killing Maven and Blocking Wott.
Slam what makes you say Maven is Doc over Vig?
Hopefully Ran is lynched. If that is the case, I will not have to use Jan. Hopefully town doesn't get caught in the WIFOM of that and proceeds to lynch Gheb the next day (or kill him during the night) and we can proceed with ending the game from there.
Rosa, do you think you can start edging towards Ranmaru? We will need your vote in order for him to be lynched, otherwise he'll probably remain at 6.

If you think it will be out of character, we can gamble on Ryu hammering, but idk.
Seems we will have no choice but to block Mave. I can't get him to agree to specified targets.
Rosalina I see you're online. If you can, please try and vote/push towards Ranmaru. Maven and WOTT will switch over to him then.
Feel free to post here if you want anything reviewed
Great post. This game is over.
I gotta make the Jay wagon appear unstable so that Mave & WATT will feel pressured to switch to Ran.
@Zenny:
He is 100% vig. He wouldn't give away his role. He's being way too careful.
We would prefer no lynch over jaytheunseen lynch, right?
Nah a lynch is always better. The Ran lynch will happen though.

Night 1
I'll be out for today and some of tomorrow. I'll be back tomorrow evening to discuss things. We will probably have to block Maven.
Actually, just thought it through. We shall block Wott and kill Ruy. I want this game to end by tomorrow.
Woops I mean block wott and kill mave
same rule in effect. soon as i see actions in bold dats wat goes in effect. also janitor + roleblocker are in charge of own actions meaning NIGHT GOES FASTER IF ROSE TELLS ME IF SHE CHOOSES TO FORGO A BLOCK emphasizing dis cuz zenny did it so want rose 2 b on da same page
Alright guys let me let you in on the plan. The sooner we do the actions the better. I think there is a good chance that Maven will kill Gheb and that Joey will protect me. If both of these are achieved we will be able to end the game with a quick lynch and a night kill tomorrow. However, there are some risks. I've been thinking about this for a while now, and I think that it is worth taking.

It's best we do this as soon as possible, because I would like there to be little time for Maven to change his decision and think about his actions. I think our best bet to achieve the desired outcome is if the two of them are going off of impulse.

The fact that town tried to anticipate Jan not being online really gave us an advantage, because they are less likely to suspect that the no-jan was intentional and thus less likely to think about why it was intentional.

That being: to bring Maven's power to the Pro-Ran; Anti-Gheb camp.

I will go over each of the possible scenarios and how the game should be carried out if the desired outcomes are not achieved.

A.
Maven shoots Gheb, Jay, Seal, Ruy, or WOTT
Joey targets Me
We shoot Maven

In order to win this game we need 6 deaths. With this scenario, we will have 4 out of the 6 needed. The plan for this is to quick lynch JeXs. Joey indicated that he will protect one of Ran, JeXs, and me. Since Ran is dead it will be b/w JeXs and me. So his death will indicate that one out of us is scum. We will utilize this to lynch as soon as possible. Jay, Seal, and WOTT all have a scum read on JeXs and it will not be difficult to convince Ruy or Gheb if needed. We will only need 5 votes to achieve this. After that, we merely need to kill WOTT to achieve the 6th death.

B.
Maven shoots Gheb, Jay, Seal, Ruy, or WOTT
Joey targets JeXs
We shoot Maven

This will bring about 3 out of 6 needed a long with a clear on JeXs. I'm not sure if the two of you have picked up on it, but I've been crumbing Mason the entire game. If necessary I will claim this. Before so we will have one of the two of you crumb having been masoned by me in case we go that route of me having succeeded. From here we can either play out D2 and D3 as normal or I can do the Mason gambit, WOTT will CC (or I will CC him) and there will be 3 PR claims in the field along with a dead Vig. From here we will push a WOTT lynch over a Joey one. We will Jan WOTT and have Joey randomly protect between me and my partner. That of course will kill him, and a long with out Night kill we will achieve endgame.

C.
Maven shoots Slam or Rosalina
Joey targets Me or JeXs
We shoot Maven

If Maven shoots Rosalina, that would quite suck. I don't think it's likely though. I am a bit worried for Slam, but I think I think it's a good chance that Maven will go by Ran's word and take Slam as town. Therefore, I think either of these outcomes is low.

If it happens, we will have to work from there and probably just proceed the game as normal, going for any town lynch that comes to opportunity.

----

In the even that I die, the same as above applies. Also make sure to get rid of Joey if he is going to clear a townie and make sure to RB WOTT in the same night. If he is going to target one of you, roleblock him and kill WOTT, and kill Joey the next night.
So since this is a time matter, I'm gonna go head and say

Kill: Maven

Rosa as soon as you're on, block WOTT, 'less you have any objections.
Wait, why would we role lock wott? He's probably going to save joey, so if we're not killing him, then we shouldn't use an RB. @ Xivii Xivii
At the maximum we will only need one more role block so there's not much benefit in saving it. I think it is better to be safe and use it as there's a good chance he will protect either maven or gheb since those are his strongest town reads.

Day 2
Time to put in the work. Let's get this done people. Try to be online as much as you can so we triple-hammer once JeXs or Jay reaches 2 votes.
JeXs asking for Doc just sealed the deal yee haaw
kk Slam claim VT when you're on.
Rosalina hold off on yours for a bit.
Ok Rosalina. Claim Mason and that you targeted Gheb but were roleblocked.
Erg I wish you guys had IM. Although I just blocked a skype request the other day without realizing it could of been one of you...
Are you sure about claiming? WoTT knows there won't be a cc and if there is, then WoTT is dead.
Keep up the lurks for now. I'd like to see where Seal's head is at and gauge WOTT's intentions after Slam claims VT.

If Seal votes, we can just end this. If he doesn't then I think that the cc will lead to the highest potential for success.
Actually yes, this yields the highest success rate.

JeXs perception will be that the scum team is Me, WOTT, and one of Slam/Seal.

Jay's perception will be that WOTT is scum.

Seal Unknown.

Ruy will be either way, but I'm feeling him leaning a bit towards JeXs side.

WOTTs perception will be that scum is JeXs, Jay, and yourself.

----

Yes, claim as soon as we are all on together. JeXs and Jay will vote WOTT, leaving the three of us to hammer.
WOTT is going to retract as soon as a) he gets a cc or b) once everyone else claims VT. The latter puts things back on me vs JeXs. The former distributes the lynch possibilities with a high potential for WOTT to be lynched, especially since it will seem as if he is changing his claim to Doc just to fit with the hypo-poison.
I see slam is online! Are all three of us here? Check in if so.
I am trying but ****ing **** ads man
Are you on the mobile site version?
I don't even know but I will return tomorrow. No other site gives me so much trouble or links to so many third party sites
Rosalina, go head and initiate claim whenever you're on.
I want to make sure you guys are all on. Then, I'll claim mason.
Go head and do so. I wanted to do it when it was just the the of us and JeXs, but that time frame has passed.
Great work. I'd quote your three quotes on gheb from page 40
Ah nevermind he revoted. Only if u need i guess.
Welp since slam disappeared for another 12-16 hours I guess I'll stay up all night lurking to see if Ryu votes. :p
I think you might of slipped with the "I knew you'd have to claim doc" comment. Unless I'm reading it wrong. Anyways it's salvageable. Ignore it for now unless someone points it out. Then just argue that you're arguing that he had to switch because he was caught in the lie from his day 0 post and had to switch to something he picked. Since wdoc and vig are dead, he could only pick doc.
What the. I vote him now?
insert text message b/w slam n zen
What the. I vote him now?
We did well team. The true League of Princesses. I'm proud of you both.
Eilonwy already knows what's coming and is like "whoa, whoa, don't get mad..."
Eilonwy? Anyway, we still gotta kill someone to finish the game or marshy'a gonna be all over us.
So might as well be ryu. He probably played the best out of alive town.
Kill: Red Ryu
 
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Xivii

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Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
10,319
Jay I can't really say there's much to critique about your play at this point in time. I just think that your play style and reads will develop as you continue to play.

Maven amazing d0 play and wonderful play overall. I feel like your probably going to continue improving at an exponential rate. You've seemed to learn from each game you've played and implement that into your play in each subsequent game. Also I've said this in my head so many times I don't remember if I actually posted this already.

WOTT as I said great d0 play. Your play was consistent throughout, though a little more front line d1 would have benefited town. I think a JeXs lynch probably would have been the best thing for town by the end of the day. As mentioned, gambit was unnecessary, and usually are (something that took me a long time to learn *thinks about your zen-in-ryker-mafia-comment*).

Ruy again, solid play. Obv town to town and stayed level-headed and analytic. One thing that I would say is take a more active lead in ensuring your fellow town mates play in that same manner. For example, making sure everyone kept their votes off D2.

Gheb your last resort ethos argument day 0 only gave scum more potential fuel to debate. My post before that was the last logos-tool I had to push jan through. I think it would have been better to have stuck to that. You did have a reasoned response to my counter though (which probably ended up influencing maven to switch. Fortunately rosa came in at the end with the final counter). Overall just please don't use ethos arguments anymore. You do tend to use them often. And they just don't work. Anyways your play was good. I probably actually wouldn't have disagreed with pushing for Mason claims since I don't really care much for PRs either way. I don't think the Ran lynch was bad, but I think JeXs was town's optimal D1 lynch. That could just be a scum-bias thing though cause JeXs constantly seemed to be intentionally helping us.

Joey good calls on the d0 and lynch choices, though the wall trading was unnecessary (and always unnecessary). I dunno why you're apologizing for antagonizing JeXs, dat *** was outta line.

Ran never put so much certainty into ur d1 reads. Your reads usually don't develop until later on. Look for more variables before you get all blood thirsty. If you're getting too into, take a day off or so. Such as when we were ami and you had that v/la and came back all zen.

JeXs if this wasn't open set-up woulda swore u were a traitor. But yeah you already know.

Seal id recommend you at least try to make an attempt to read players. This style of playing mafia isn't just a swf thing, it's pretty normal.

Slam <3

Rosa I had a feeling you'd do well. Whenever I made a request, you made it look natural as possible and I couldn't have hoped for more. Also the "i know some of these words" post I think provided the last thing we needed to tip the scale in favor of jan. Even though Maven probably didn't agree with it, just the fact that the argument was there gave him that final "ah **** it" momentum. One thing I'd say to work on as scum is just really putting yourself in that town mindset and empathizing with the town perspective. For example I could tell you felt awkward when I proposed the princess alliance haha. I feel like town rosalina would have probably been confused with the intentions behind that post and question it. Also as Slam said in the convo, never treat your partners as partners. It was a potential red flag when you defended slam. I actually had almost done the same thing a couple of times this game.
 
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