Pichu isn't the worst!

[Kahnu]

Nah almost all agreed with the D-tilt being better and the Up smash.
Undeniably the Up throw is more powerful as well, they passively agreed.

You seem to have trouble reading

ok dont double post please

i just find no reason to pick roy over marth, like, whats the point of playing him?
matchups?
i just got here


also no marth's hair is ****ing gross

 

[Comet7]

Nah almost all agreed with the D-tilt being better and the Up smash.
Undeniably the Up throw is more powerful as well, they passively agreed.

You seem to have trouble reading

nah, i saw you being called out for that lol. as for up throw, if it kills earlier, it kills earlier. so...duh? it doesn't mean it's good.

i miss the good old days (so about 1 month ago) when people in the pichu boards didn't ***** about low tiers and had productive, intelligent discussion.

roy's hair >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> marth's hair.

 

[kingPiano]

ok dont double post please

i just find no reason to pick roy over marth, like, whats the point of playing him?
matchups?
i just got here


also no marth's hair is ****ing gross

Yes I prefer to play him against Fox,Falco, JigglyPuff, Falcon, and the Marios. It's just much easier matchups for me.
Personally I don't like Marth as much. I like Roy's counter, his combos, his grab game (it's a bit different), and his DED way more. I also don't really like playing top tier characters.

And to all I'll give one more point:

Mew2king as a joke plays Roy often in bracket, and it's often against other repsectable players who place well (as well as against noobs).
There have been multiple occasions where he's beaten a respectable Ganondorf and even respectable Fox/Falco Mains with his Roy and his Roy is not even that amazing. Now Ganondorf is in the A tier 8 spots above Roy, Fox and Falco are at the very Top. His Pichu doesn't do as well (and he seems to play him even more). If none of that makes sense to you, or you don't see the point here. Then I guess there is no point to continue this conversation.

 

[Kahnu]

Yes I prefer to play him against Fox,Falco, JigglyPuff, Falcon, and the Marios. It's just much easier matchups for me.
Personally I don't like Marth as much. I like Roy's counter, his combos, his grab game (it's a bit different), and his DED way more. I also don't really like playing top tier characters.

And to all I'll give one more point:

Mew2king as a joke plays Roy often in bracket, and it's often against other repsectable players who place well (as well as against noobs).
There have been multiple occasions where he's beaten a respectable Ganondorf (i.e. Eikelmann) or even respectable Fox/Falco Mains with his Roy and his Roy is not even that amazing. Now Ganondorf is in the A tier 8 spots above Roy, Fox and Falco are at the very Top. His Pichu doesn't do as well (and he seems to play him even more). If none of that makes sense to you, or you don't see the point here. Then I guess there is no point to continue this conversation.

he plays low tiers to challenge himself and **** with people

m2k is way above eikelmanns level
m2k wouldn't go roy VS Bizzaro or Kage lol

 

[the muted smasher]

Kind piano do Yourself a flavor leave or try

 

[kingPiano]

he plays low tiers to challenge himself and **** with people

m2k is way above eikelmanns level
m2k wouldn't go roy VS Bizzaro or Kage lol

Yes I know Eikel isn't on M2k's level, that's what makes up for the gap in the tier list.

All I'm saying is that he can actually hold his own even with the defecit. He has the tools to take on some higher tier characters with better player skill meaning equal skill players can take on characters from around same tier with relative evenness.

I would actually like to see M2K's Roy against BF or Kage's Ganondorf. The matchup is supposedly bad for Roy, but having longer DJ hit boxes and counter on Ganon's slow moves I think it would be close and fun to watch. Not to mention Ganondorf can't get to the ledge with a Roy waiting there, it's a nightmare: crap recovery against a sword.

 

[Kahnu]

Yes I know Eikel isn't on M2k's level, that's what makes up for the gap in the tier list.

All I'm saying is that he can actually hold his own even with the defecit. He has the tools to take on some higher tier characters with better player skill meaning equal skill players can take on characters from around same tier with relative evenness.

I would actually like to see M2K's Roy against BF or Kage's Ganondorf. The matchup is supposedly bad for Roy, but having longer DJ hit boxes and counter on Ganon's slow moves I think it would be close and fun to watch. Not to mention Ganondorf can't get to the ledge with a Roy waiting there, it's a nightmare: crap recovery against a sword.

you confuse skill with tiers
if my 5 year old cousin plays fox anf so does his 5 year old friends and me kirby and i fourstock them with kirby multiple times
does that mean kirby > fox?

 

[kingPiano]

you confuse skill with tiers
if my 5 year old cousin plays fox anf so does his 5 year old friends and me kirby and i fourstock them with kirby multiple times
does that mean kirby > fox?

So you are saying that Eikelmann has the skill of a 5 year old?
This I do not agree with that and I'm sure neither does Eikelmann who is active on here.

I honestly think that M2K's Roy could best BF's or Kage's Ganondorf, and I have much respect for both they are amazing Ganons.

 

[Kahnu]

So you are saying that Eikelmann has the skill of a 5 year old?
This I do not agree with that and I'm sure neither does Eikelmann who is active on here.

I honestly think that M2K's Roy could best BF's or Kage's Ganondorf, and I have much respect for both they are amazing Ganons.

it was just me trying to make a point. I dont actually mean he has the skill of a five year old. Its called making comparisons.

 

[the muted smasher]

Gannon can easily chain throw roy to death. Like if You think counter is the answer go right on ahead

 

[Comet7]

guys don't you know about the ganon canon? roy doesn't stand a chance.

 

[Kahnu]

I think its safe to say, Roy, is not our boy.

 

[kingPiano]

Gannon can easily chain throw roy to death. Like if You think counter is the answer go right on ahead

Roy can chainthrow Ganon to death, and he has a longer grab range

 

[Kahnu]

Roy can chainthrow Ganon to death, and he has a longer grab range

Ganon v, Roy is a terrible matchup for Roy.

 

[Comet7]

unless i'm missing something, roy can't truly chaingrab ganon aside from maybe f throw which isn't scary at all compared to ganon's down throw chaingrab.

 

[kingPiano]

unless i'm missing something, roy can't truly chaingrab ganon aside from maybe f throw which isn't scary at all compared to ganon's down throw chaingrab.

Roy can chain grab any FFer just like Marth can, you grab > down throw > dash grab repeat (have no done this on a Ganon specifically)

 

[Comet7]

Roy can chain grab any FFer just like Marth can, you grab > down throw > dash grab repeat (have no done this on a Ganon specifically)

But I do know for sure Roy can chain up throws extremely easy on Ganon into mid-high percents into a F smash

ganon isn't a fast faller... and down throw? you aren't referring to tech chasing, right?

do you have a source for that?

 

[kingPiano]

ganon isn't a fast faller... and down throw? you aren't referring to tech chasing, right?

do you have a source for that?

Ok EDIT I just tested it I was wrong about the up throw I must have been thinking about the FFers and lumped Ganon in with them. That is my bad, it barely works with 4 throws with Ganon...I forgot he was a kind of floaty which is odd (same as Sheik and Link...they're like 1/3 his size). It has been a while since I fought a Ganon.

He has a chain on FFers from like 20-70%

Ganon does have a down throw chain on Roy but it can be DI'ed quite a bit and escaped from. If it was guaranteed than Eikelmann should have never lost a stock to M2K with such an easy gimp. Same goes for any other character that has chain throws on X character it's never guaranteed. Like Pichu with Falcon, timing can be difficult and so can unpredictable DI.

 

[Kahnu]

***** roy sucks just ****ing play marth

this whole argument literally doesnt make sense

 

[kingPiano]

***** roy sucks just ****ing play marth

this whole argument literally doesnt make sense

How does it not makes sense?

How does Roy being above Pichu not make sense. Are you agreeing with the others that Pichu belongs above Roy?

 

[Kahnu]

How does it not makes sense?

How does Roy being above Pichu not make sense. Are you agreeing with the others that Pichu belongs above Roy?

I was having a seperate arguement of why using Roy altogether when Marth is an option is stupid.

Although, Pichu < Roy.

Just, don't argue this ^.

 

[kingPiano]

I was having a seperate arguement of why using Roy altogether when Marth is an option is stupid.

Although, Pichu < Roy.

Just, don't argue this ^.

From the beginning I said Marth is better than Roy, don't know why you are getting flustered about that. I don't use top tiers, it's just something I'm a not a fan of. That's why I use Roy.

Not only that but you get to discover new tech and possible meta since not many play them. With top tiers you basically just wait for others or read others guides and just follow the instructions. It's easier to develop your own style without the influence of possibly copying other top players, being more creative.

I use DK mainly
used to use Samus before DK
My Roy is my secondary, has been for like 2 years for matchups I don't like with DK
and I use Mewtwo and Pichu to money match people (sometimes use them in bracket if I'm up)

 

[the muted smasher]

I meant gannon can lazily chain throw roy.

Roy is straight trash get out of here.

 

[kingPiano]

I meant gannon can lazily chain throw roy.

Roy is straight trash get out of here.

Muted you really have to learn to respect people's opinions. So Pichu is below Roy. So I guess he's trash? Would you like if I just came on these forums and said "Pichu is straight trash get out of here"

Nah, now you're being a hypocrite.

No Melee characters are trash or garbage even Kirby or Bowser. There will always be players that make the most of them like Triple R and DJ Nintendo.

 

[Comet7]

success with low tier characters is more the player than the character.

 

[kingPiano]

success with low tier characters is more the player than the character.

Of course this is the same with any tier, but you forgot to mention unfamiliarity with the MU. That is a huge factor, not many know or get practice with the Roy MU.

But character's success doesn't always mean it's only the skill of the players....
Jigglypuff who used to be thought of as low tier by Ness. And now Yoshi who's move up the tier list should have happened back in VectorMan's days.

Character's can change positions even this late in the game, Roy doesn't have a strong chance since he's a partial clone. People will always main the more popular one, but who knows.

And just because you don't like him or hear others talk crap about him doesn't give you grounds to call him garbage or useless especially when you've never even given him a shot. Kirby isn't garbage to Triple R and Bowser isn't garbage to many successful players like DJ Nintendo, Eikelmann, and M2K.

 

[Comet7]

Of course this is the same with any tier, but you forgot to mention unfamiliarity with the MU. That is a huge factor, not many know or get practice with the Roy MU.

But character's success doesn't always mean it's only the skill of the players....
Jigglypuff who used to be thought of as low tier by Ness. And now Yoshi who's move up the tier list should have happened back in VectorMan's days.

Character's can change positions even this late in the game, Roy doesn't have a strong chance since he's a partial clone. People will always main the more popular one, but who knows.

And just because you don't like him or hear others talk crap about him doesn't give you grounds to call him garbage or useless especially when you've never even given him a shot. Kirby isn't garbage to Triple R and Bowser isn't garbage to many successful players like DJ Nintendo, Eikelmann, and M2K.

yeah, but once people learn the mu it becomes much harder

*low tier character's. my main thing against this philosophy is that this game has been played for over 13 years now and it is pretty much unanimously agreed that marth is pretty much a better version of roy in about all circumstances.

no, i definitely have the grounds to voice my own opinion, and others do too, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it can't be questioned. those players are also really, really good, and m2k will definitely tell you that a character is trash, and the others probably would as well, which is probably the reason they use high tiers in serious matches. unfortunately, characters do have limitations. i saw the set with m2k against triple r a few weeks ago, and saw that triple r was making a ton of right plays, but sheik as a character, especially being played by m2k, is just too much.

from m2k's tier list that i don't take too seriously: 24. Ness
Lack of range and a bad recovery make him pretty awful.

 

[kingPiano]

yeah, but once people learn the mu it becomes much harder

*low tier character's. my main thing against this philosophy is that this game has been played for over 13 years now and it is pretty much unanimously agreed that marth is pretty much a better version of roy in about all circumstances.

no, i definitely have the grounds to voice my own opinion, and others do too, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it can't be questioned. those players are also really, really good, and m2k will definitely tell you that a character is trash, and the others probably would as well, which is probably the reason they use high tiers in serious matches. unfortunately, characters do have limitations. i saw the set with m2k against triple r a few weeks ago, and saw that triple r was making a ton of right plays, but sheik as a character, especially being played by m2k, is just too much.

from m2k's tier list that i don't take too seriously: 24. Ness
Lack of range and a bad recovery make him pretty awful.

Ok so you don't take it seriously but then you quote it. Ness is not great we all know this but he puts him above Zelda, then he puts Bowser above both lol. He also puts Pichu above them all and yet his Zelda is much better against top tiers where his Pichu gets destroyed against the same players. It's a puzzling list.

You can voice your opinion of course, I can't stop you. But isn't it better once you've actually played as a character and used them instead of just watching some videos and reading about it.

I'm pretty sure right now my Roy can probably 2-3 stock your Pichu. I'm not saying this as flame bait but seriously the hitbox advantage, grab range,WD, DD, countering, edgeguarding with my big sword. It just makes sense it's why he's higher.

It's the same pain in the butt matchup as Marth except I die sooner off the edge. The tier list really doesn't even factor in when it's Roy vs Pichu or Marth vs Pichu the MU difference in respect to Pichu are minimal (he still dies at like 50% to F-smash). To everyone else they are much more significant.

 

[Comet7]

Ok so you don't take it seriously but then you quote it. Ness is not great we all know this but he puts him above Zelda, then he puts Bowser above both lol. He also puts Pichu above them all and yet his Zelda is much better against top tiers where his Pichu gets destroyed against the same players. It's a puzzling list.

You can voice your opinion of course, I can't stop you. But isn't it better once you've actually played as a character and used them instead of just watching some videos and reading about it.

I'm pretty sure right now my Roy can probably 2-3 stock your Pichu. I'm not saying this as flame bait but seriously the hitbox advantage, grab range,WD, DD, countering, edgeguarding with my big sword. It just makes sense it's why he's higher.

It's the same pain in the butt matchup as Marth except I die sooner off the edge. The tier list really doesn't even factor in when it's Roy vs Pichu or Marth vs Pichu the MU difference in respect to Pichu are minimal. To everyone else they are much more significant.

i don't take the list seriously since m2k's opinion changes all the time but the quote shows that he's not afraid to say a character is trash.

experience is better, but knowledge is power. experience just gives firsthand knowledge as people learn matchups anyway, so all i'd have to do is apply the knowledge i gain from research. research also shouldn't be underestimated; i wouldn't know that roy's reverse blazer instant kill wasn't guaranteed without it, as an example.

how is that not flame bait? if you want to talk about the matchup, then don't take it further than that. i'd money match you irl, no worries, if that matters to you at all. neither pichu or roy can really approach, so we just have to wait for each other to screw up and punish the hell out of each other (i'm actually less worried about roy's punishes on me in that mu until i get to f smash kill % even if that happens quickly). pichu's light but roy is combo food.

roy is combo food, doesn't have aerials as good as marth's, has a slower dash speed, worse combos, worse tipper location (this is huge since random tipper f smashes from marth are SCARY) which gives me a lot more freedom and confidence with my movement. all i'm really worried about in this mu is roy's dijoint and his smashes.

 

[kingPiano]

i don't take the list seriously since m2k's opinion changes all the time but the quote shows that he's not afraid to say a character is trash.

experience is better, but knowledge is power. experience just gives firsthand knowledge as people learn matchups anyway, so all i'd have to do is apply the knowledge i gain from research. research also shouldn't be underestimated; i wouldn't know that roy's reverse blazer instant kill wasn't guaranteed without it, as an example.

how is that not flame bait? if you want to talk about the matchup, then don't take it further than that. i'd money match you irl, no worries. neither pichu or roy can really approach, so we just have to wait for each other to screw up and punish the hell out of each other (i'm actually less worried about roy's punishes on me in that mu until i get to f smash kill % even if that happens quickly). pichu's light but roy is combo food.

roy is combo food, doesn't have aerials as good as marth's, has a slower dash speed, worse combos, worse tipper location (this is huge since random tipper f smashes from marth are SCARY) which gives me a lot more freedom and confidence with my movement.

Well reverse blaze is only guaranteed on Jigglypuff (Pichu and GW don't get OHKOed even though they are lighter) it can still be DIed out of if your jiggly.

Either way you would have learned that the first time you played Roy, and they might try on a small stage.

50% is like a grab and 4 sword attacks and then Pichu is primed for blast off.

Roy's sweet spot is from the hilt to a little bit below the tip, it's just as easy to get caught in. In fact most people that play Marth and Roy will tell you that Marth's sweet spots are hard to hit in a match since usually the opponent is coming in and trying to get close to you. Don't be fooled by watching greats like PPMD and M2K it's hard to space them consistently.

Roy for Pichu actually isn't really even combo food, he's medium-heavy so he falls fast and can tech fast to get out of any string of aerials. once Pichu is popped unp in the air you can literally up air/ up tilt/ up smash him into oblivion. he has no answer or hitbox that will reach except thunder and you won't land that. You''ll get F smashed for your trouble or countered. Try and agility out and you'll get dash grabbed and wombo comboed

 

[the muted smasher]

Always tech in place or get up attack xD it's a pain to tech chase pichu if he does that non sense. Those extra Inv. Frames are godly vs moves that don't hang out.

I'm not sure if roy wins or not. If I played well idk how many chances he'd have to grab compared to chances to try and slap me out of the air. But really the slaps are meh when You think about mix-ups to get empty up-smashes or jolts.

Also it's funny if You read his d tilt and just keep hopping over them in place xD.

Roy doesn't do anything other than random side-b combos(idk how useful it is vs pichu), f smashes and grabs. Everything else is whatever



Pichu has no answer to being juggled?????? Up-b 2nd jump thunder/jolts, air dodge the 2 frame laggy move. Like juggling pichu isn't very solid damage.

But roys attacks do very low damage 50% takes about 17 throws and I know he doesn't have an air attack that does more than 8% and smashes aren't a good source of safe damage either. Pichu, s nair knocks roy down over and over and we kind of carry him away after a point.



Watch weights the same as puff and up-b can kill all 3 at 0% stage based. But sdi can't save them all.

 

[Comet7]

Well reverse blaze is only guaranteed on Jigglypuff (Pichu and GW don't get OHKOed even though they are lighter) it can still be DIed out of if your jiggly.

Either way you would have learned that the first time you played Roy, and they might try on a small stage.

50% is like a grab and 4 sword attacks and then Pichu is primed for blast off.

Roy's sweet spot is from the hilt to a little bit below the tip, it's just as easy to get caught in. In fact most people that play Marth and Roy will tell you that Marth's sweet spots are hard to hit in a match since usually the opponent is coming in and trying to get close to you. Don't be fooled by watching greats like PPMD and M2K it's hard to space them consistently.

Roy for Pichu actually isn't really even combo food, he's medium-heavy so he falls fast and can tech fast to get out of any string of aerials. once Pichu is popped unp in the air you can literally up air/ up tilt/ up smash him into oblivion. he has no answer or hitbox that will reach except thunder and you won't land that. You''ll get F smashed for your trouble or countered. Try and agility out and you'll get dash grabbed and wombo comboed

so it's not guaranteed, and i was right.

if the roy even goes for it, since it's risky. you would need to know that it would hit unless you want to get bodied.

so? if people can't space marth's moves well enough to tip his moves semi-consistently, then they need to drop the character. marth's tipper is just way more threatening than roy's because he can threaten me from farther away which makes me less willing to dash dance and move around in general.

so he's like falcon but with slightly less fall speed. nair (grab setup) > up throw > up air > nair > (lol roy air game) up tilt > up air > nair/fair if i want to mix it up > eventually roy is at a high enough percent to convert to an edgeguard since i'm good at combo'ing. that's my marth treatment fyi, so it just gets worse with roy's faster falling speed and lighter weight. i don't like combo'ing marth/roy on the ground as much since they can get out of it unless they're at nair chaining percentages. i can also just tech chase you if it comes down to it on the ground, which pichu is very capable of doing.

for getting down it's hard against marth but roy is basically marth except a bit slower and with less overall damage, so i can just wait for an opening. and nah i'll agility anyway and buffer roll once if i have to (Perfect Agility <3) figure out which area you're going to commit to covering, unless you want try for everything which won't work. to elaborate, on FD it's free because i can just double agility diagonally to the stage and be safe with 1 frame of landing lag. for stages with platforms save for YS (which i'd ban), i'm not scared of using agility to get to a platform that roy isn't covering and getting down with shai drops, shield drops, or whatever.

also not quite sure how roy can get an automatic 50% on pichu through straight out combos since he's light as a feather unless you juggle him, and i already explained my thoughts on that.

 

[kingPiano]

so it's not guaranteed, and i was right.

if the roy even goes for it, since it's risky. you would need to know that it would hit unless you want to get bodied.

so? if people can't space marth's moves well enough to tip his moves semi-consistently, then they need to drop the character. marth's tipper is just way more threatening than roy's because he can threaten me from farther away which makes me less willing to dash dance and move around in general.

so he's like falcon but with slightly less fall speed. nair (grab setup) > up throw > up air > nair > (lol roy air game) up tilt > up air > nair/fair if i want to mix it up > eventually roy is at a high enough percent to convert to an edgeguard since i'm good at combo'ing. that's my marth treatment fyi, so it just gets worse with roy's faster falling speed and lighter weight. i don't like combo'ing marth/roy on the ground as much since they can get out of it unless they're at nair chaining percentages. i can also just tech chase you if it comes down to it on the ground, which pichu is very capable of doing.

for getting down it's hard against marth but roy is basically marth except a bit slower and with less overall damage, so i can just wait for an opening. and nah i'll agility anyway and buffer roll once if i have to (Perfect Agility <3) figure out which area you're going to commit to covering, unless you want try for everything which won't work. to elaborate, on FD it's free because i can just double agility diagonally to the stage and be safe with 1 frame of landing lag. for stages with platforms save for YS (which i'd ban), i'm not scared of using agility to get to a platform that roy isn't covering and getting down with shai drops, shield drops, or whatever.

also not quite sure how roy can get an automatic 50% on pichu through straight out combos since he's light as a feather unless you juggle him, and i already explained my thoughts on that.

Hey I'm not going to rain on your parade. You seem to have your theories pretty well worked out in your head. You just keep double agility-ing youself up to 50% sounds good to me.

 

[Comet7]

Hey I'm not going to rain on your parade. You seem to have your theories pretty well worked out in your head. You just keep double agility-ing youself up to 50% sounds good to me.

25% combo from roy + 4% from agility means i don't have much to worry about until i get hit a few times. then to kill me early you have to hit me with f smash which isn't the fastest thing in the world (yeah it's not slow but w/e) and has decent cooldown.

 

[DerfMidWest]

I'm very bored with this discussion, but everyone needs to calm down.

Here's how I feel about the points directed towards me:

I understand what you're trying to say about offstage counter now, and I disagree for a few reasons. First, if spacies ride the wall, they can tech it. They can also just avoid the positions where roy can safely use the move and recover (keep in mind that if he misses he's usually dead).
Also remember that spacies are still spacies. Evey character can gimp them, but they have the tools to avoid being put in those positions by most characters.

Now, dtilt. Roy's dtilt would be awesome if it weren't for a few major flaws. The first is that the sweetspot is not at the tip, this makes dtilt out of dash and wd back muuuch less relevant. It's not even safe on CC/Shields when spaced corretly like marth'a is.
Thw second major flaw is that even though it combos, roys other moves don't. So you can connect small chains, ideally leadin to positional advantage so you can hope to start another small chain.

I have many more opinions, but ill post them later.

 

[kingPiano]

I'm very bored with this discussion, but everyone needs to calm down.

Here's how I feel about the points directed towards me:

I understand what you're trying to say about offstage counter now, and I disagree for a few reasons. First, if spacies ride the wall, they can tech it. They can also just avoid the positions where roy can safely use the move and recover (keep in mind that if he misses he's usually dead).
Also remember that spacies are still spacies. Evey character can gimp them, but they have the tools to avoid being put in those positions by most characters.

Now, dtilt. Roy's dtilt would be awesome if it weren't for a few major flaws. The first is that the sweetspot is not at the tip, this makes dtilt out of dash and wd back muuuch less relevant. It's not even safe on CC/Shields when spaced corretly like marth'a is.
Thw second major flaw is that even though it combos, roys other moves don't. So you can connect small chains, ideally leadin to positional advantage so you can hope to start another small chain.

I have many more opinions, but ill post them later.

DeRF if your "very bored with this discussion" then don't look at it or even bother replying anymore. You contradict yourself a lot it seems.

I have a strong feeling your opinions on Roy are about to come from the same place as Comet's and Muted's. Not really any tournament experience or serious time put in playing him at all, just conjecture and theories. If that's the case let me know so I can figure out if I should even waste my time reading it.

The off stage counter does work, it's the same as when a smart goalie approaches the an opponent looking to score. The closer you are to him the angles that will allow him to make a shot become exponentially smaller. With Roy if you get within sword distance then they literally will always hit the counter bubble. And if by some miracle they don't hit it will cause an SD out of sheer panic or a really bad angle that leaves them falling for a while allowing you to side B or Up-B safely back to the stage most likely hitting them in the process. If they are coming from below you don't even need to jump out it will hit them 99% of the time on edge. They can try and tech (it's weird because of the 1.5x damage and knockback) but they will still be able to be ledge-guarded again afterward.

If they choose to Side-B back you of course just D-tilt/ Side-B/ F-tilt/ Jab with your big a** sword of disjointed hitboxes and follow up. But when they Up B, well that move has lots of start lag and can be easily reacted to with a counter or jumping counter depending on their position. Or you can just sit there and F-smash too but you could read it wrong and the angle can avoid you.

The main point about Roy is that no matter how much you might delusion-ally think he's garbage and that Pichu is above him on the tiers. He has a flippin' sword, and he's tied with Marth for longest fastest non-tether grab range. That automatically makes him more viable and higher on the tier list.

 

[DerfMidWest]

DeRF if your "very bored with this discussion" then don't look at it or even bother replying anymore. You contradict yourself a lot it seems.

I have a strong feeling your opinions on Roy are about to come from the same place as Comet's and Muted's. Not really any tournament experience or serious time put in playing him at all, just conjecture and theories. If that's the case let me know so I can figure out if I should even waste my time reading it.

You'd be pretty wrong there. I have a lot of experience in the matchup, and for what its worth I had a pocket roy for a long time.

The off stage counter does work, it's the same as when a smart goalie approaches the an opponent looking to score. The closer you are to him the angles that will allow him to make a shot become exponentially smaller. With Roy if you get within sword distance then they literally will always hit the counter bubble. And if by some miracle they don't hit it will cause an SD out of sheer panic or a really bad angle that leaves them falling for a while allowing you to side B or Up-B safely back to the stage most likely hitting them in the process. If they are coming from below you don't even need to jump out it will hit them 99% of the time on edge. They can try and tech (it's weird because of the 1.5x damage and knockback) but they will still be able to be ledge-guarded again afterward.

I'm not saying you're wrong here, this will work if you manage to get spacies in a position where they get hit by it and can't tech it, the problem is getting them into that position and forcing them to use their upB, which isn't always easy.
They have a lot of freedom, especially with their double jump.

Regardless, this is still just a gimmick you see getting used more on people who don't know the matchup, spacies can get gimped by every character in some jank way if they aren't looking out for it, even roy on occassion. The problem you run into is that roy gets seriously outplayed in neutral and just totally shut down.
He has cool stuff he can do, but he's a garbage character with garbage options. Just like the majority of the cast, but worse.

If they choose to Side-B back you of course just D-tilt/ Side-B/ F-tilt/ Jab with your big a** sword of disjointed hitboxes and follow up. But when they Up B, well that move has lots of start lag and can be easily reacted to with a counter or jumping counter depending on their position. Or you can just sit there and F-smash too but you could read it wrong and the angle can avoid you.

Same thing I said above.

The main point about Roy is that no matter how much you might delusion-ally think he's garbage and that Pichu is above him on the tiers. He has a flippin' sword, and he's tied with Marth for longest fastest non-tether grab range. That automatically makes him more viable and higher on the tier list.

I used to agree with you on this one.
But roy doesn't actually have a sword, he has a wet noodle.
You made a point earlier about roys sweetspot being easier to hit because people are always running at you, and thats flat out wrong. To hit the sweet spot, you need to let them be closer to you, effectively compromising your range.
You also run into a problem where people realize that roy is so limited by his pool noodle that there is no reason to approach him, since his only viable option is DD->grab in neutral. So you just camp and make him come to you and he's free.
He handles platform camping waaaay worse than marth since he needs to be even closer to sweet spot and his unsweetspotted aerials on shield/CC are the least safe things in the game, and shield dropping alone basically makes the 2 things roy had going for him back in 2005 innert.

Don't get me wrong, Pichu is still trash tier, but I strongly believe that roy is the worst character in the game.
Regardless, it's 2015. There are only about 13 characters that matter at this point in the game's development.

 

[the muted smasher]

Lol no one plays in tournaments we just get online to agree about things for pichu. It's also funny how I drop a lot of detailed facts about pichu and You never have any input about them

 

[Modesty]

Hmm I think you both are terribly underestimating Ness, or maybe you haven't played or seen a good Ness. They are scary to play against.

- One of the most powerful back throws
- His Fair and Bair are AMAZING
- can DJC which leads into so many combos and massive spamming damage much like in SSB64
- He's got a meteor smash Dair with good range and his Up air is one of the best, can juggle, low lag, and has KO potential early
- Long range dash attack and his u-tilt is fast and reaches

He's also got very useful edge guarding options with the PK fire and his Neutral B is no joke.

Can be an easy character once off stage, but deadly on the stage. I don't like fighting good Nesses at all, I prefer Zelda over them.

This. A good Ness can be a terror. That Bair gives me nightmares.

 

[xChaos]

Mew2king as a joke plays Roy often in bracket, and it's often against other repsectable players who place well (as well as against noobs).
There have been multiple occasions where he's beaten a respectable Ganondorf (i.e. Eikelmann) or even respectable Fox/Falco Mains with his Roy and his Roy is not even that amazing. Now Ganondorf is in the A tier 8 spots above Roy, Fox and Falco are at the very Top. His Pichu doesn't do as well (and he seems to play him even more).

Usage amount and tier placings don't entirely determine one's ability with a character. Mew2King could just be better with Roy than Pichu. My most used character is Marth, but my Pichu is better than my Marth because I have spent my time very carefully trying to get better with Pichu, where i just **** around with Marth. The same could apply to Mew2King. You can't really know for sure.

He has a flippin' sword, and he's tied with Marth for longest fastest non-tether grab range. That automatically makes him more viable and higher on the tier list.

Well Roy>Fox by these standards.

Lol no one plays in tournaments we just get online to agree about things for pichu. It's also funny how I drop a lot of detailed facts about pichu and You never have any input about them

Hmph. I play Pichu in tournament. Except against Jigglypuff. I just can't deal with not being able to gimp very well.