Phoenix Wright Mafia [GAME OVER!]

[KevinM]

You've got some scum on your cheek there macman like.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Vote Count:

Cacti (2) – swords, gheb
Rockin (2) – Cacti, Marshy
KevinM (1) – Macman
Gheb (1) - Mentos

With 10 alive it takes a vote of 6 to lynch!

 

[#HBC | Mac]

vote: pierre

 

[Cacti]

But if masons can recruit, and there is a roleblocker, it wouldn't work, would it? Because masons should be at 2 now if they masoned on one of the previous nates, and that other mason's mason would go through.

Or is it not like that here? Does only the head mason recruit?

 

[#HBC | Mac]

i think its only a mason group. not a mason recruiter.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

i dont think its a recruiter

 

[Cacti]

Then what's wrong with the mason claiming?

 

[#HBC | marshy]

there could be a scum roleblocker blocking kevin letting the confirmed innocent die

 

[#HBC | Mac]

1. Marshy

Marshy isn't easy to get a read on. He seems to be helpful, but honestly he's too good a player to really now. Right now though I would say town. However, his tunneling on mentos makes me a little bit suspicious. I would really like for Marshy to post more about mentos.

13. KevinM

Kevin is in the same boat as Marshy. He's really hard to get a read off of whether he is town or scum. He is playing the same as he does every game, so there isn't much to say..

This is from a while back.

How come Marshy is green and Kevin isn't?

You state something about marshy that could make him seem suspicious but you still have him green. However with kevin you say he's been playing the same way but you still have him as yellol

 

[#HBC | Mac]

I still stand by my vote on Swords for right now. In terms of more recent events, I think, as Omni said, a lot of what Mac has done the past little while has a LOT to do with him tunneling on who he thinks is town and people who he feels are scum. Does that mean it doesn't have meaning? No. But I do think a lot of it has to do with that tunneling and don't think it was entirely a scummy maneuver, in part instead a "he must be town, I think he's the mason partner, let's get him to admit it so I can push who I think is scum."

Still, FoS Macman. Definitely not enough for me to push his lynch today, but enough to make me somewhat suspicious of him.

In the first paragraph you are basically saying that I tunnel to had on people I think are town/scum. You then rationalize my thought process saying it seems like I am just trying to get sinz out of the way to push who I think is scum. Seems like from your phrasing here that you believe that I am town. Why do you FOS me later in the post then?

 

[#HBC | Mac]

vote: pierre

My fault, this was a bad vote. unvote

Do people still agree with notion that if Kevin is scum than Riddle is probably town and vice versa? Are people ok with having him around till endgame? Do you think you'd be able to make a good decision on who is scum if he was part of your endgame group?

Also, how convinced is everyone that KevinM is town? Do you agree that he'd be scummy was it not for him being uncced doc?

Cacti, why exactly do you see Gheb as scummy now? Would like you to be very clear with your reasoning here.

Gheb, if you think Riddle is scum so bad why aren't you voting him? I would also like to know what you think of Rockin and Swords.

also to Gheb, Do you think it is scummy that I knew about the potential roleblocker problem with my mason claiming plan, but was still pushing it?

Gheb again, Do you think it is scummy that you were so quick to shut down my mason claiming plan even though you had faulty reasoning?

Pierre, if you were me[for the sake of argument, just say I am town], Who would you lynch between Pierre the Scarecrow or Mentosman if you were trying to settle this cop problem. Explain your answer.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

You reading the thread? You said the same **** that Kevin just said. Truth said his partner breadcrumbed his masonry with him. So the claim is EASILY verifiable. And even if someone did CC that would give us a ****load more info than we have now.

I didn't see that. IIRC Truth said he thinks his mason partner breadcrumbed. Fair enough though. Mason partner can still be scum regardless so at least the "always protect him" sounds bad. In the end it's up to him to claim or not anyway...

It bewilders me how you want to clear Kevin based on the fact that no other doc has cced.

What? Where have I cleared Kevin and where did I do it on that basis? That's news to me. Kevin lynch? OK, I'm not against it. But he's not first in my lynchpool and he's not 2nd either. But he's far, far, far away from "clear" to me. I don't say "everybody is suspicious as shit to me" for fun.

Remind you of Simpsons mafia much? You don't find it scummy that kevin won't protect a clear? Reallly? Really.

If you talk about the claimed mason partner then I don't see why he'd be more clear to Kevin than Kevin himself. If I were the only one I could trust in a game I'd consider it an option. It's true however that openly announcing to not protect anybody except himself is very questionable to say the least especially when you're in his position.

You are much smarter than this so I'm starting to find it scummy that you are letting him fly by solely on his claim despite the other scummy things he's done.

Do I really come off as if I'm "letting him fly"? I just try to introduce alternate discussion to the obvious - OK, Kevin has been scummy. OK, it's mass WIFOM right there. It's not like we didn't know that (or discussed it) yesterDay. I just think we should look at other players harder before we are letting them fly. If we can't find something better we can still lynch him. But I don't want to give other players the option to stay out of the discussion in the meantime. That'd be fatal this late into the game.

Since you mentioned Simpsons: A huge reason why town lost this game was because few people were actually talked about. We spent two whole days with discussion about Kevin / Karthik and gave Frozen / McFox the easiest win ever because we didn't concern ourselves with them. That's a mistake I don't want to repeat.

Gheb: your misconstruing of my actions applies because you talk about me pushing a claimed doctor lynch which I absolutely have not. Pushing it yesterday doesn't apply to your original point, because you talked about it being easy to push a lynch on a doc claim, not it being easy to push a lynch on Kev yesterday. And if you think it was scummy to push a lynch on Kev yesterday, well, the majority of the town agreed with that lynch, and the only reason it didn't happen was the governor. And don't say that's not what you said, in the original post I responded to you talked about how Kevin being alive was all WIFOM and very easy to tunnel on, and that me and Mac are both pushing his lynch hardcore. Welcome to the present tense, something that makes it quite clear you weren't talking about yesterday.

*shrugs*
This sounds more like you accuse me of poor woring or using bad syntax. It's true that my woring was awkward. I probably should have said "mentos and macman both pushed his lynch hardcore" or "mentos did it yesterDay, macman does it toDay". I still don't see how you get a scumtell out of it. More of a "european-guy-who-sucks-at-english-tell".

Gheb, if you think Riddle is scum so bad why aren't you voting him? I would also like to know what you think of Rockin and Swords.

I don't want to put too much pressure on his replacement for now. He should be given time to read through everything carefully so he can answer stuff about discussion that Riddle avoided or dismissed. It's a lot more productive if I don't pressure him into defense right away.

Swords - I don't like how he seems to be parroting me a lot and how much he trusts me. It shows a certain kind of naivety that I wish he hadn't but it's something many new players have. The same thing happened to me in Simpsons mafia where I was simply to naive to question most players. He's been stepping it up D3 though - I find his questions / accusation against Pierre to have merit and it gives me town vibes. He just looked scummy D1 and part of D2 because he's new and can't deal with pressure too well yet.

Rockin - Huge question mark for me and that already troubles me. He typically doesn't say a lot so I'm not quite sure about this yet. He's been fairly inactive in all games so it might just be a general problem. I think he contributed more to the discussion than in games like Monster Mafia where he flipped scum but that's not enough for me. He seems to support a Riddle lynch (at least he did until he was replaced) so that makes him easier to trust if he flips scum but other than that...idk. I don't feel like we loose a lot by lynching him but he's not at the top of my scumlist.

also to Gheb, Do you think it is scummy that I knew about the potential roleblocker problem with my mason claiming plan, but was still pushing it?

Good question. I think it's not enough to hold it against you because there are very simple and credible answers to potential accusations. You should be easily able to find the answer - if you're really town that is. (It's not something I'll look really hard at right now but rather something I'll keep in the back of my mind).

Gheb again, Do you think it is scummy that you were so quick to shut down my mason claiming plan even though you had faulty reasoning?

Sometimes people are just genuinely wrong about things or forget stuff like the possibility of a roleblocker. I don't think it's scummy although it's certainly a mistake that can be seen scummy if repeated a couple of times.

 

[SwordsRbroken]

Cacti, you're not off my suspicion list yet, but for now, Unvote

Pierre, answer my questions. I'm sick of having you post to avoid prods. Please be more active in this game from now on. Makes me think you might be lurking so as to avoid being more suspicious.
Vote: Pierre for now.

About macman's questions, i don't think that necessarily makes Riddle town if kevin is scum. In wonderland mafia, the Mafia (Nick and marshy) bussed riddle. And as to the Kevin=doc thing, if he had been counter-claimed, i would be more confident that Kevin is scum. But now, i'm not sure, as no one has counter-claimed.

 

[Cacti]

Cacti, why exactly do you see Gheb as scummy now? Would like you to be very clear with your reasoning here.

He was painting Mentos in a bad light for supposedly tunneling KevinM so much. D3 he hasn't really done that, and D2 I think that Mentos had a good reason for tunneling on him; he had a guilty report on him. I saw him as just a cop trying to get his guilty dead without revealing himself.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

cacti, answer the rest of my qs please.

also, would you be ok with a Gheb lynch?

 

[Cacti]

I'm really not sure about KevinM right now. I can see some scummy things about him, and if he weren't uncced doc, those things might put him out of the grey zone.

I don't get why Riddle would be town if KevinM flipped mafia.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

also, would you be ok with a Gheb lynch?

KevinM shed suspicion on riddle during twilight before Sinz flipped town.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Cacti, you must have missed my last post. I never meant to "paint" mentos "in a bad light". I simply worded my post poorly.

 

[KevinM]

You know whats funniest about all of this, like no one has yet to construe a CLEAR case to why I am scum for the most part.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

I guess you constantly contradicting yourself, and lying about not being able to claim, and large amounts of flipfloppnng, and lack of scumhunting, and AtE crap and having a guilty report on you isn't at all apparent.

bit don't worry, yur not getting lynched today. You should be happy.

 

[Cacti]

What's AtE mean?

 

[#HBC | Mac]

also, would you be ok with a Gheb lynch?

wanna answer this?

ate = appeal to emotion.

self voting is a HUGE AtE. saying stuff like "you guys deserve to lose" is a huge AtE.

It is not scummy in and of itself and depends on the circumstances surrounding it. Generally however it is distracting and antitown. And I think kevinM is vet enough to know not to do such a thing.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

also gov should not be assumed town when he claims

 

[#HBC | marshy]

also still think we should go kat (riddle)/rockin/pierre

unvote vote kat

 

[#HBC | marshy]

Vote Count:

Cacti (2) – swords, gheb
Rockin (2) – Cacti, Marshy
KevinM (1) – Macman
Gheb (1) - Mentos

With 10 alive it takes a vote of 6 to lynch!

more vote kat/pierre/rockin votes

 

[Kataefi]

Omg at least give me a chance! This game is a PAIN to catch up on and it seems people are getting a little ****ed at riddle so I have to do some damage control on his and now MY behalf to not get wrongfully lynched!

Marshy I'll respond to your vote very soon!

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Waiting for answers from Kat

Unvote Vote Pierre

 

[Pierre the Scarecrow]

Alright, here we go.

A. You say that you basically voting with circus gives the town more power. Whilst it may, this may just be a ploy to make yourself look less scummy. Explain that.
B. You painted a target on everyone's back when you posted on D1.
C. You haven't answered who your suspicions were and why. I asked you this and you just said that you saw yourself on persons a, b, and c's lynches. You don't give a reason, you don't even give a crappy reason.

A: Proxying my vote to Circus doesn't make me look any more innocent or more scummy. It simply gives my vote to who I think is a cleared townie with a mason partner and therefore a better grasp on the game that I had. If I were scum, I would just be giving more power to a townie, and if a lynch was led on my scummate, I would have to go along with it, because if I didn't and my scummate flipped, I would be seen as evident scum. If I were scum, it would just be better to avoid the situation altogether by posting my own false opinions.

B: I am sick of this argument as well. If you would continue that line of thought, you would see that the only way I am "painting targets on other peoples backs" is if I were giving the scum ideas on who a townie finds trustworthy, and therefore if you are worried I painted targets, you are accepting the fact that I am town. You cannot hold that scenario against me and call me scummy for it because to do so you must first assume I am town - therefore voting me for it would be voting for me for doing something you think is pseudo-scummie while accepting the fact that I am town. And then, therefore, you're voting a townie for doing something you dont "like" even though you know hes a townie.

C: I am suspect of Rockin, Riddle (Kataefi), you (SwordsRbroken), and to an extent Marshy. For a while, I had my main suspects as Riddle/Swords/Cacti/Rockin because I felt that they brought nothing to the table and also risked nothing while doing so. Rockin remains this way though he continues to post, Riddle remains this way as he has replaced out and I must wait to hear what Kataefi thinks about other people, you basically continue this way because I find your reasoning to be generally poor (see A and B), not dumb, because it is almost logical, but poor because there are very evident gaps in reasoning and that might possibly mean scum. Marshy because he has said very little about anything at all and often switched his vote around with little reasoning.

Pierre, how suspicious of KevinM were you yesterday?

It's hard to remember. I decided yesterday that I would rather give my vote to Circus, and after even Circus questioned me about it, I had to think if I was really okay with who Circus was voting for. And I decided that I was. I voted Rockin because I would have rather seen Rockin go byebye than Kevin.

It bothers me that Kevin did not protect Circus. Other than that, I have two very good reasons to believe him: 1) he is un-counterclaimed, 2) Mentosman got the same investigation result on Kevin as he did on me, and if Mentos is not lying scum and is actually insane cop then that makes Kevin a real town doctor.

@Kevin: Can you explain to me again why you didn't protect Circus? Did you not believe his claim?

Pierre, if you were me[for the sake of argument, just say I am town], Who would you lynch between Pierre the Scarecrow or Mentosman if you were trying to settle this cop problem. Explain your answer.

Recognize that this is not a cop out although I am not answering one of your two answers - your question was a bit of a false dilemma and I will show you whats best. If I were you, and for the sake of argument you are town (which is sort of strange for you to say, but it doesnt matter, and for the record, I think that you are town) I would lynch neither Pierre or Mentosman. The cop problem, as you call it, will settle itself in mylo/lylo. If Mentosman is an insane cop, he will either be roleblocked and have to claim roleblocked or he will have another investigation. If he is mafia, and he wants to claim roleblocked, they cannot roleblock anyone else for fear of causing another contradiction. In mylo/lylo, the mason partner to Circus will surely claim (who is most likely a governor), we will have that claim plus our cop and doc claimed already, which will hopefully result in a mass claim, which will give us more information about both names and roles, which will shed more light on Mentosman's investigations and whether or not he is lying scum or his targets are town or not.

Pierre, answer my questions. I'm sick of having you post to avoid prods. Please be more active in this game from now on. Makes me think you might be lurking so as to avoid being more suspicious.
Vote: Pierre for now.

Oh shut up already.

@Marshy: why are your lynch targets Riddle(Kata)/Rockin/Pierre and why do they not include either Cacti or SwordsR?

 

[#HBC | Mac]

I fear that we are looking for scum in the wrong places.

I feel like i'll have to settle for Rockin because I think he is lurking wayyy too much. And this is just anti town and not helping. I really hope he's not town. Ugh.

Gheb, would you agree that you have been buddying with Kevin or atleast following his lead all game? If you were do you think that is scummy?

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Kevin, I am actually interested in who you would want to lynch today. First and second choice and then maybe reasons why you want them dead. Also note we're looking for people being scummy here not anti-town

 

[SwordsRbroken]

A: Proxying my vote to Circus doesn't make me look any more innocent or more scummy. It simply gives my vote to who I think is a cleared townie with a mason partner and therefore a better grasp on the game that I had. If I were scum, I would just be giving more power to a townie, and if a lynch was led on my scummate, I would have to go along with it, because if I didn't and my scummate flipped, I would be seen as evident scum. If I were scum, it would just be better to avoid the situation altogether by posting my own false opinions.

Um, this is very WIFOMey. You could have chosen not to hop on the lynch to confuse everyone. Then again, maybe you were town convinced that someone else was scum.

B: I am sick of this argument as well. If you would continue that line of thought, you would see that the only way I am "painting targets on other peoples backs" is if I were giving the scum ideas on who a townie finds trustworthy, and therefore if you are worried I painted targets, you are accepting the fact that I am town. You cannot hold that scenario against me and call me scummy for it because to do so you must first assume I am town - therefore voting me for it would be voting for me for doing something you think is pseudo-scummie while accepting the fact that I am town. And then, therefore, you're voting a townie for doing something you dont "like" even though you know hes a townie.

Or, maybe you are scum trying to pick out the towniest in order to kill them. You said that circus was definitely town. Then he dies N2. This makes me more convinced that you are scum.

C: I am suspect of Rockin, Riddle (Kataefi), you (SwordsRbroken), and to an extent Marshy. For a while, I had my main suspects as Riddle/Swords/Cacti/Rockin because I felt that they brought nothing to the table and also risked nothing while doing so. Rockin remains this way though he continues to post, Riddle remains this way as he has replaced out and I must wait to hear what Kataefi thinks about other people, you basically continue this way because I find your reasoning to be generally poor (see A and B), not dumb, because it is almost logical, but poor because there are very evident gaps in reasoning and that might possibly mean scum. Marshy because he has said very little about anything at all and often switched his vote around with little reasoning.

So, you're just suspicious of them and me simply because they've not been contributing as much recently? Your thoughts on lynching me seems more like an OMGUS to me. Riddle is explainable, because some people have brought a case against him. Rockin can go, as chaco was very scummy and after this he hasn't really been contributing. Explain your lynch thoughts on Cacti.

So far, you've only said that my reasoning is dumb, you provided a wifomey answer for A, B Circus died N2, and you said that he was confirmed town. This makes me think that you are the mafia traitor. C your lynch thoughts are just crap. You think just because a person is inactive is why they should be lynched? Also, your suspicion of me seems like an OMGUS. Explain.

I definitely think Pierre should be the lynch for the day.

 

[Cacti]

=_=

Swords had better not be scum when this game is over.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Gheb, would you agree that you have been buddying with Kevin or atleast following his lead all game? If you were do you think that is scummy?

No, I don't agree with this at all. Buddying him? Where and how have I been buddying him? I merely tried to make the rest of us aware that there are other things going on than Kevin. It may have given people the impression that I've been buddying him but it's a huge stretch. At least I'm not like Pierre the Scumcrow, who tries to take credit for not voting him yesterDay (something I did).
I also have not followed his lead at all. I was pretty much the first to make cases against Riddle and Pierre - two of our main suspicions toDay and to me it seems more like Kevin was following me here.

I don't know if I'd consider it scummy. It depends a lot on the how and why. If I blatantly defended him for poor reasons I'd probably find it suspicious but I don't think I have ever played like that in this game.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

I believe I can bring up clear cut posts where you parrot him, sometimes even with faulty reasoning.

Why would defending him be suspect?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I believe I can bring up clear cut posts where you parrot him, sometimes even with faulty reasoning.

I can't think of more than one such instance. The only thing that comes to my mind is the Mason-Claim / Doc-protect thing.

Why would defending him be suspect?

As I said it depends on the how and why. If you defend him with legitimate reasons then it's something different than defending him with bad arguments. Regardless I think Kevin should be experienced enough to defend himself in such a case so somebody else defending him would seem redundant. That's when I'd say it's a scummy attempt to look credible by defending somebody else or to protect a scumbuddy.

 

[mentosman8]

Well, I think I'm going to Unvote: Gheb Vote: Swords. Startin to think it may not be bad for Mac to die either, but I'm still not comfortable with Swords V Cacti being TvT and it's time to take a shot at one of them.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

pierre rockin for his lurking now. kat/riddle for bad posts throughout the entirety of the game. you because i still think cacti/swords is TvT and kevin/mentos get to live today

 

[Rockin]

Like I said, I don't know where else to look for atm. I'm waiting for Kat to see what he thinks so far in terms of things. Not to mention people is not much into the swords lynche cause they think he's town even though I still think he's maf. >>

I know at times (or everytime), I don't be useful to town, but at least I try =/

 

[#HBC | Mac]

yea kat, its been a while. We really need to hear something from you

 

[KevinM]

Like riddlekat needs to be lynched still