Phantasm discovery

[BlackBluRR]

Not sure if this is anything new but I'll post what i found anyway. We all know that if you press B during Falco's phantasm it will cancel it out. Normally the phantasm cuts off your forward progress when the animation is complete. What i noticed was that when you cancel it Falco's momentum continues moving forward. Since you can theoretically cancel the phantasm from completing anywhere during the forward moving animations, i was thinking that if you cancelled it late enough you'd wind up still phantasm'ing quite some distance AND continue moving forward afterward.

This could prove beneficial since it could theoretically increase his horizontal recovery, and give you some added control in where falco ends up landing afterward. I haven't had much time to test it myself as the timing is somewhat tricky. Try it out if you want and let me know what you think.

Terrible quality, but you get the idea. (Video was taken with a cell phone... it's all i had.)
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEtr5BDkdNg
Look carefully where Falco ends up landing on the stage.
At 1:18 i do the full cancel, :26 i do the 1/2, and :45 i do the 3/4. I do it other times too these are just some i picked out so you can skip the rest of the horrible film quality.

 

[captainlukey]

no offence (im not even sure if im rite) but isnt this old news....?
this was in melee and one of the first things i tested in brawl.
but it is a little trickier in this version almost as if tthe timeing varies each time not too sure bout that tho

 

[redgreenblue]

Unfortunately, my testing in training mode at 1/4 speed indicated that there are only three levels of phantasm, full cancel, half cancel, no cancel.

 

[Kirin]

Can someone explain this better? I'm a bit confused. He's saying if you cancel it in the last frames of the start-up animation, that you can both phantasm AND continue horizontal momentum for a short while longer?

 

[redgreenblue]

Can someone explain this better? I'm a bit confused. He's saying if you cancel it in the last frames of the start-up animation, that you can both phantasm AND continue horizontal momentum for a short while longer?

Theoretically that would work if you could cancel it at any length. However, you cannot cancel a phantasm at any length. So this is impossible. Nice idea, but will not work.

 

[Tommy_G]

Actually, yeah it does work. I've been using it for recoveries and thought it was old news. You can cancel the Side-B at the end of it. If you do so close to the ground, Falco will slide. Its fun when you see people with a 'wtf, you should have died' expression on their face.

 

[Kirin]

How do you do it? When do you have to time the B exactly?

 

[BlackBluRR]

Don't get me wrong people, I already know its possible to do. You'll know when you've successfully done it when the phantasm still executes but afterward you can still DI normally. I'm just wondering if at any point the cancelling option would give you more of a horizontal recovery than the normal option.

 

[Kitamerby]

It is incredibly useful for Wolf, as well, and extremely helps Wolf's recovery, but Falco's is much better to get the full thing, as if I remember correctly it doesn't give you the faster movement speed that Wolf's does when you cancel it and goes directly into Falco's normal falling speed...

All in all, it's good to mix up your recovery, but for basic recovery purposes, the full thing should go farther.

 

[BlackBluRR]

I just got done messing around with it some more, and i believe i found 3 distances you could cancel to. Of course theres the complete cancel where you make nearly no forward progress from the phantasm itself but only the DI afterward. One that seems about 1/2 cancelled that also continues forward DI afterward. And one that looks like about 3/4 cancelled and still continues the forward DI.

Both the 1/2 cancelled and 3/4 cancelled carry you farther from the peak of a full hop than a normal uncancelled phantasm.

I have managed to put together an incredibly poor quality video of me doing all three cancels.
Sorry the video is so fuzzy and choppy but its youtube aaaand i recorded this on a cell phone. (The best i could do people.)

 

[J4pu]

As you can probably tell from blackblurr's post -^

the cancel can help you recover horizontally but only if you have sufficient vertical distance you can fall before you need the horizontal distance

 

[Vlade]

Hehe I'm still trying to get the timing, but it looks beneficial to use for recovery.

 

[FuFu300]

I can't watch the video because the computer I'm on sucks.

But for someone who HAS watched the video, can you confirm if there are only three lengths to Phantasm (nowhere, halfway, and full) or four lengths (nowhere, halfway, three-quarters, and full)?

Wait...I could just test this out myself...

 

[Blad01]

As you can probably tell from blackblurr's post -^

the cancel can help you recover horizontally but only if you have sufficient vertical distance you can fall before you need the horizontal distance

What i was going to post.

 

[FuFu300]

I just went to training mode and tried it on FD. There are four different lengths and three of which are reached by canncelling. I tested it by rolling to the left edge of FD until there wasn't any noticeable change in distance. Then I performed a full hop, and at the peak of the hop, I Phantasm'd and I didn't not DI (or I tried not to).

With a complete cancel, you stop moving a little bit left from the center of FD.

With a "half" cancel, you stop at the right-point of the diamond shape that is at the center of FD.

With a "3/4" cancel, you end at the triangle closest to the center that is on the right side of FD (as in if you start from the center, the triangle to the right of the center)

With no cancel, you stop a bit to the right of the center of the diamond shape that is at the center of FD.

I know it's worded kinda weirdly, but I hope I explained it well enough!

 

[BlackBluRR]

Essentially, thats what i did during my video. The only difference was that I deliberately held forward on the control stick to continue the DI at a controlled level. Doing so would allow me to know when I successfully cancelled the phantasm. I figured I would also allow to get more consistent results in the long run.

 

[Tommy_G]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr6nvbZdLns

At 2:25-2:50 it shows the different distances for the Side-B. If someone wants, I can do videos of each specific thing then send you the brawl video files, that is if you can record it with something better than a camera phone. You'd be able to edit it too and we could have a really nice video.

 

[redgreenblue]

I just got done messing around with it some more, and i believe i found 3 distances you could cancel to. Of course theres the complete cancel where you make nearly no forward progress from the phantasm itself but only the DI afterward. One that seems about 1/2 cancelled that also continues forward DI afterward. And one that looks like about 3/4 cancelled and still continues the forward DI.

Both the 1/2 cancelled and 3/4 cancelled carry you farther from the peak of a full hop than a normal uncancelled phantasm.

I have managed to put together an incredibly poor quality video of me doing all three cancels.
Sorry the video is so fuzzy and choppy but its youtube aaaand i recorded this on a cell phone. (The best i could do people.)

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEtr5BDkdNg
Look carefully where Falco ends up landing on the stage.
At 1:18 i do the full cancel, :26 i do the 1/2, and :45 i do the 3/4. I do it other times too these are just some i picked out so you can skip the rest of the horrible film quality.

Well, that video sure silences me. O_O I wasn't aware you could cancel it to 3/4! That was a huge horizontal boost...

 

[BlackBluRR]

Well, that video sure silences me. O_O I wasn't aware you could cancel it to 3/4! That was a huge horizontal boost...

To be honest, your comments are what really got me to test it out further and work on that video. Otherwise I might have just let this thread fade.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr6nvbZdLns

At 2:25-2:50 it shows the different distances for the Side-B. If someone wants, I can do videos of each specific thing then send you the brawl video files, that is if you can record it with something better than a camera phone. You'd be able to edit it too and we could have a really nice video.

Ehhh, he does cancel the phantasm, but his movements are kind of erratic. In my vid I tried to make sure that i was taking off and starting the phantasm from relatively the same point. In that aspect (and only that aspect) my vid is a little better... And as for me making another video, that probably won't be happening anytime soon. I have neither the software or the hardware to produce a video of any decent quality. (as of now)

 

[redgreenblue]

To be honest, your comments are what really got me to test it out further and work on that video. Otherwise I might have just let this thread fade.

Well, uh... hooray for misinformed opposition!

 

[BlackBluRR]

Indeed.... indeed.