Petition to make Dreamland the only legal stage

[Mr Bushido]

Hi

Dreamland is the best stage. Peach's Castle is very gimmicky and Congo is too dark. Let's follow the Japanese who are ahead of us in nearly every aspect of 64 and make Dreamland the only legal stage.

Thank you

 

[The Star King]

Well didn't I see this coming

 

[Cobrevolution]

how long have i been your signature zenwhore

edit: you can't use the japanese and not mention peru and hyrule. same principle of a bunch of people who only play one stage and are really good.

 

[Shears]

I vote for banning Dreamland. I hate that stage more than anything. Whispy is a ***** that comes in and says **** you and ruins everything. Where's Paul Bunyan when you need him? Congo I'm not crazy about but I think its a decent counterpick. Neutral should be Peachs, CPs should be Congo, Hyrule, Saffron.

 

[Combo Blaze]

brazil the best for playing all stages

also japan playing single elimination

congo is good

 

[Mr Bushido]

Resilient ruleset =/= Brazilian

 

[Chaostatic]

In my opinion, peaches and congo are just another way for the top tiers to **** on the low tiers.

DK, Link, Samus, Mario, Luigi, Fox, Yoshi, and Ness are all better on DL than peaches and congo.

Mario and Luigi are decently good on peaches, but overall, pika and kirby dominate on peaches and congo.

I voted DL only. Character diversity is a good thing.

 

[Shears]

Fox is not low tier, don't let @Han Solo brainwash you into thinking so. Fox is God tier.

And whats wrong with purging the low tiers? Survival of the fittest. You don't hear about melee players complaining that the game needs to allow for Pichu to be a legitimate contender.

 

[The Star King]

In my opinion, peaches and congo are just another way for the top tiers to **** on the low tiers.

DK, Link, Samus, Mario, Luigi, Fox, Yoshi, and Ness are all better on DL than peaches and congo.

Mario and Luigi are decently good on peaches, but overall, pika and kirby dominate on peaches and congo.

I voted DL only. Character diversity is a good thing.

I'm inclined to disagree with low tiers being worse on Peach's

...maybe.

 

[Sedda]

pika and kirby dominate everywhere... jeez guys

 

[Chaostatic]

I look at it like this.

DK - relies on his DL platform mobility. Much worse on congo, decently worse on peaches.
Link - relies on his DL Platform mobility and his ability to Up B to the ledge. Much worse on congo, much worse on peaches.
Samus - DL platforms are definitely a plus, but it's not that big of a factor. Relies on her ability to sweet spot the ledge. Not so much worse on Congo, a lot worse on peaches.
Mario - DL platforms are definitely a plus, but it's not that big of a factor. Relies on his ability to sweet spot the ledge. Pretty good on congo, worse on peaches.
Luigi - same as mario
Fox - relies on flat stage for lasers and ledges for recovering. Decent on Congo, terrible on peaches.
Yoshi - relies on flat surface for horizontal movement and combos. Ledges definitely help. Not that much worse on peaches or congo, but still worse none the less.
Ness- the only thing ness has going for him is his platform mobility on DL. Terrible on peaches and congo.

@ Sedda Falcon > Pika on DL

DK, Luigi, and Samus aren't bad vs Kirby on DL
Yoshi isn't bad vs pika on DL

not good lol, but not bad

 

[The Star King]

With like half of what you said, I either disagree or feel it's an oversimplification/ignores some key things, but I'm not gonna bother arguing about it when it's not super relevant to their legality anyway.

 

[Chaostatic]

I'm not gonna bother arguing about it when it's not super relevant to their legality anyway.

If character diversity isn't relevant to stage legality then how do you guys decide your legal stages?

I get that Hyrule was banned due to camping, but why would anyone consider banning peaches or congo if it wasn't to promote character balance?

 

[Shears]

Good point. That's why we should reinstate Saffron as a counterpick, tough for ness. @Sensei isn't around anymore to disagree either, rest his smash soul.

 

[Karajan]

The peaches congo character balance thing is moot since first match must be on dreamland and dreamland can be picked at any time.

I would be totally for this IF AND ONLY IF we also made the Japanese smash version the version we must use in tournament.

 

[Sedda]

Yoshi isn't bad vs pika on DL

not good lol, but not bad

You mean in the same way that "Mario and Luigi are decently good on peaches, but overall, pika and kirby dominate on peaches and congo?"

Sorry to cherrypick this, but overall I think that most of your argument really comes from Congo being "awkward" with no flat surface, aka simply bad for not being DREAMLAND. Most of those characters are bad against Pika and Kirby on DL anyway (as pointed out above).

 

[Chaostatic]

Well yeah, it doesn't really matter how congo is awkward. The fact of the matter is that it is. Congo doesn't have a flat surface or platforms that are easily maneuverable, pika and kirby aren't really fazed by this but the other characters totally are.

Pika and kirby are the best characters everyone, I'm not saying that if we have an all DL ruleset low tiers will start winning. I'm simply saying that it's a lot harder for low tiers to win on Congo or Peaches than it is on DL.

 

[asianaussie]

link and ness are better on peaches

not like they were gonna recover anyway

if it's DL-only i could totally see a movement to put falcon > kirby on tier list happening sometime next year

 

[KeroKeroppi]

dream land isn't even the only stage yet and my crew has been saying falcon > kirby for months lol

 

[Battlecow]

I'm in favor, but not because of character balance. Bad reason to decide stage legality.

DL just seems so... non-jank. I don't have a convincing game theory reason for why bumpers that save you and barrels and moving plats are bad (whereas I had like 3005980409309 for banning hyrule, god that stage sucked) but the simplicity of DL makes me feel like I'm playing against a person and not a stage. It's a purer game.

Also I think that regardless of which stage one stage is the best way to go. Instead of having to be the best at two out of three different games you have to be really good at one.

 

[SheerMadness]

Peach's and congo are fine.

Stop being wussies... wussies.

 

[NovaSmash]

Peach's and congo are fine.

Stop being wussies... wussies.

yea and people used to think saffron was fine, peach's is terrible

 

[P D]

hyrule4lyfe

 

[yOLORIN]

I thought of an amazing idea!
We make yoshi's island legal but have 2 additional players there whose job is to make the clouds go away. ITS GENIUS.

 

[ballin4life]

Also I think that regardless of which stage one stage is the best way to go. Instead of having to be the best at two out of three different games you have to be really good at one.

Really? Talk about boring.

 

[Battlecow]

the game is for all practical intents and purposes infinitely deep. Stage variety is for scrub a dubs, it takes attention away from the actually interesting parts of the game.

 

[Cobrevolution]

what are the interesting parts of the game, and how does stage variety detract from them?

 

[Battlecow]

interesting parts are figuring out how to beat people and playstyles

boring parts are gimmicky half-developed little stage specific tricks

 

[kys]

Where's the option for Congo only?

 

[asianaussie]

Where's the option for Hyrule only?

 

[Cobrevolution]

interesting parts are figuring out how to beat people and playstyles

boring parts are gimmicky half-developed little stage specific tricks

i would counter with, there are multiple playstyles on different stages; therefore, there are many more interesting parts available the more stages we have at our disposal

also, the only reason some things are "half developed" is because of the generally unplayed nature of the alternate stages.

dreamland has stage specific tricks too - only one that allows for a special kind of DI, for instance.

however, these tricks are fully developed (or at least moreso than the other stages) - like dk's platform game, for instance; that wouldn't work on peach's, obviously, but falcon's lower-level moving platform to middle lower platform game is just as cool. so are drop cancels. so are rotating platform things on congo. and the lack of a solid ground opens up new opportunities for recovery with some characters.

dreamland: ledge DI. unique ledge di. solid ground. grabbable ledge. options are limited to ledgehop aerial or getup.
peach's: impractical ledge di because of lack of grabbable ledge. solid ground. options are recover high and get edgeguarded or recover low and get edgeguarded. utilize bumper and wedges to best of ability.
congo: no ledge di. grabbable ledge. no solid ground. options include dreamland's, but also include ledgehopping from below back to the main platform.

dreamland got gimmicks too, but because of the commonality of the stage, they've been accepted as normal things, aspects of the game that are to be expected. if the alternate stages saw as much time as dreamland, i think the same would happen for them.

 

[Annex]

Where's the option for Zebes?
...

 

[The Star King]

Where's the option for Dreamland + Peach's Castle?

 

[B-Town]

Ban all stages. Play imaginary smash

 

[Battlecow]

You're not wrong, Cobr. Intellectually I'd be just as OK with congo only as with DL only--I want ONE set of gimmicks so that the winner of a match wins because he's better and not because of stage shenanigans which are outside the game. Practically of course I'm more used to DL so I like it more and I think it's a better stage for random aesthetic and subjective reasons.

 

[Shears]

One stage is like having one race. What are you all, a bunch of communists?

"No variety"
"Only plain stages so we can abolish stage favoritism"
"Timers are bad"

 

[Karajan]

Hyrule-only for Peru makes sense:

Dreamland only for Japan makes sense:

It's a culture thing.

If you want to play a Dreamland-only tournament, go to Japan. If you want to play a Hyrule only tournament, go to Peru.

Currently Brazil has the most free ruleset. As a citizen of 'MERICUA, this is outrageous.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

the fact that everytime i pick anything but dreamland and someone complains is a sole reason why ill never support something like this because yes i understand competitive nature of the game FAIRNESS etc. etc. but goddamn we've trickled it down to the point where it's nauseating to look at

yes, hyrule is campy but did you know that nine times of out of ten the reason it is campy is because the player chooses to do so? why blame the stage for something a player is deliberately doing?

yes peach's castle has that bumper but it's just a bumper man up to the situation you're in instead of calling out on the TO's waving your communist flag shouting for equality

edit: shears beat me to the communist joke, you've just declared war my friend

 

[mixa]

this post was deemed inappropriate

 

[\\Killer//]

I still prefer Hyrule much more over Dreamland though....