People need to understand the real reason for our disappointment:

[fuuzball317]

You may have...let me rephrase...You didn't understand at all what I was saying. Making a clone of a character guarantees that THOSE TWO CHARACTERS will be balanced between themselves. That, in turn, makes it easier to balance the two (or three in fox, falco, and wolf's case) amongst the other characters. Did they get that right in Melee? No. But I'm not arguing that they did, so take it easy son.

And if you think clones play exactly the same, tell that to PC Chris...too bad you probably don't even get the reference.

Tiers mean alot btw. They are the closest thing to telling us how balanced the game is. Don't start hating on it just because it validated my point.

The only thing is that, wolf is not the same, he is a different, from the videos I've seen, he's alil like Fox but different enough to distinguish himself from Fox and Falco. There's no way that Sakurai would make three characters the same, thats absolutely ******** to think

 

[Pink Reaper]

I suppose mention Marth and Ike would result in a flame war. People are so uptight about those two.

So, you have 5 (6, sir!) clones in Brawl; yes, well, there still should have been NONE!! Toon Link should have had WW weapons! Falco and Wolf have their own sci-fi weapons and original Final Smashes! Ganondorf should have been much more his own character, not STILL a clone of Falcon, whom he never should have been. Lucas and Ness could have had different movesets; even Ness could have, after all he never used those PK spells in Earthbound.

And Ike and Marth- *stops self*

The other point besides these 5 (6, sir!) characters is that there still are a lot of the favorites that got left out. And before you rag on me for 'whining about characters not being in', lemme just say that all major fans had a reason for supporting characters like Geno, Ridley, Krystal, Tom Nook, etc..

There were polls, more than one, of characters people wanted to see most. And they didn't make it in. Why? Even if you have the clones, why can't you have more characters than 35? They delayed the game 2 months, they had almost 3 years and 100+ people on it, and they couldn't make more than what they have now? It's only 10 characters more than Melee, and Melee was almost 6 years ago!

So forgive us for wanting more from a game that was hyped up by creators and fans alike. Oh, and even if we did overhype ourselves, how many of us are unreasonable? How many of us are threatening to boycott the game, starting flame wars on the boards, and cursing out anyone who disagrees with them? The way I see it, the people 'defending' the roster are the ones are being rude, cussing, insulting, and condescending towards others. It's like they have a personal vendetta against anyone who DARES say bad things about Brawl.

***

You know what? Forget it. It seems that people who are dissapointed are going to be flamed and degraded for having an opinion no matter what they say. If your standards meet the game, fine. Who the heck are we hurting by saying we dissaprove of clones and a small roster in our most anticipated game.

Im not going to flame you for mentioning the whole "my character didn't get in thing" but I would just like to point out that Sakurai had now power over Geno being in the game or not. He is technically owned by Square(as is Mallow and every other original character from Super Mario RPG) so if they didn't want him in the game, he wasn't going to be in the game.

Also, the reason people are getting mad at you is because your complaining about a game your going to buy. Yes, you are suggesting ways it could have been better(granted, your doing it to other people who are complaining rather than the people that matter, like, the ones who make the game) but the fact of the matter is, if your really that upset with the roster, don't play the game. If you ARE going to buy the game, than you literally HAVE to accept what you've been given because you ARE accepting what you've been getting.

Im going to reword that last sentence because i think it sounds a little meaner than its supposed to. How can I put this? If you knew beforehand that you were going to buy food and that you weren't going to enjoy it, would you still buy it? More to the point, if you knew you were going to dislike it, would you complain about it THEN buy it? That just seems a little odd to me.

 

[Magmar's Wrath]

Okay....you braught this upon yourself...You are a comlete idiot if you think that Ike is a Marth clone....

I really....I....um.

I have no idea how to respond to....

Nope. I can't do it. I can't flame people who flame themselves through their own idiocy.

P.S. Brawl has not been in development for 6 years. If you would do some research you would know that Iwata brought the idea up to Sakurai in 2005.

Well, excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me for treading on the Fire Emblem sacred ground. Apparently, it's not alright to say that Fire Emblem characters are so in common with each other. Seeing as how Ike has so many of Marth and Roy's elements...

And I never said Brawl was worked on for 6 years, I said that it hasn't had a sequel in almost 6 years. That means you have expectations to live up to. And you give slapdash characters and clones that upset fans then...

You know what? Forget it. You're a rude person. I refuse to debate something with someone who's only reply to my multiple paragraph post is an personal insult.

 

[Guglio]

@ fear4

LOL.

Maybe you didn't read well enough.

Tiers are irrelevant because the knowledge exists anyways. It's the same as publishing a cook book if all the recipes are already well known in al cultures. Pointless.

So I'm not sure what you're getting at, but the red does make it stand out.

 

[-Ka-]

It is because it will be fun that this is upsetting.

You go on for 5 paragraphs only to conclude with a statement that makes absolutely no sense.

Seriously, what exactly do you mean by that sentence? What? You're against fun? The concept of "fun" makes you irritable and angry? Or do you need to work on your "having people understand what the hell you're talking about" skills. Maybe a bit harsh, but really, your argument is all over the place. Kind of rambling really.

Also, you use terms like "our" and "we" and never let us know what group or demographic you're speaking for. You and your friends? Your Mom? Your Dog? *shutters* Everyone? I hope it's not the latter bud because that would be silly. Even if you have been one of the privileged to play this game early the majority of Smashers haven't. The overall, general consensus that will tell us if this game is liked by everyone or not won't be known for another month or so.

AND one more thing, what exactly do you mean (I'm baffled) by "pointless, inexplicable error"?

 

[BananaHammock]

Well, excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me for treading on the Fire Emblem sacred ground. Apparently, it's not alright to say that Fire Emblem characters are so in common with each other. Seeing as how Ike has so many of Marth and Roy's elements...

And I never said Brawl was worked on for 6 years, I said that it hasn't had a sequel in almost 6 years. That means you have expectations to live up to. And you give slapdash characters and clones that upset fans then...

You know what? Forget it. You're a rude person. I refuse to debate something with someone who's only reply to my multiple paragraph post is an personal insult.

.....yeah. I may be rude. But at least I have some logic in my posts. 6 years of no sequel does not equal more characters.

 

[Chowmein987]

I would really only go as far to say that Toon Link and Lucus/Ness are the clone character. Wolf is actually quite unique minus the FS and falco and ganon are a bit different than before. i think what most of us (including myself) expect a completely fresh new movelist, but in actuality that cant happen due to the mass of players who like the clones for what they actually were. cmon on die hard falco players would be pissed if they had to play fox to get the "falco experience". long story short, Toon Link, Lucus/Ness = Clones the rest LUIGIFIED TO A NEW LVL.

 

[Guglio]

.....yeah. I may be rude. But at least I have some logic in my posts. 6 years of no sequel does not equal more characters.

I have yet to see logic from you that doesn't sound copy pasted.

 

[BananaHammock]

@ fear4

LOL.

Maybe you didn't read well enough.

Tiers are irrelevant because the knowledge exists anyways. It's the same as publishing a cook book if all the recipes are already well known in al cultures. Pointless.

So I'm not sure what you're getting at, but the red does make it stand out.

Ok. You halfway making sense to me now. But why, if the tier list is common knowledge, are you so mad that a group of players would take the time to officially post one? I have never seen anybody hate a cookbook the way you seem to hate the tierlist. Just an observation.

 

[Vigilant Gambit]

Brawl's new characters: 14
Brawl's returning characters: 21
Total Brawl roster: 35

Melee roster: 25

Super Street Fighter II Turbo's roster: 17


Street Fighter III: Third Strike's roster: 19

Non-competitive fighting game roster used as a control (Mortal Kombat Armageddon): 63

I don't get it. Mortal Kombat Armageddon has almost twice as many characters as Brawl, yet I hardly ever saw it mentioned anywhere, even when it was released. Brawl, however, has been hyped for years now. I'm sure every Mortal Kombat fan was more than pleased with MKA's roster (especially given the Kreate a Fighter option), yet people did not flood the internet with songs of their satisfaction after finally playing as Khameleon in 3D.

SF3 Third Strike is supposed to be the pinnacle of 2D fighting games, and yet it doesn't even have 20 playable characters. Why do people bother to play a game with such few characters? And Ryu has TWO clones, so it's actually 17!

 

[Pink Reaper]

I would really only go as far to say that Toon Link and Lucus/Ness are the clone character. Wolf is actually quite unique minus the FS and falco and ganon are a bit different than before. i think what most of us (including myself) expect a completely fresh new movelist, but in actuality that cant happen due to the massive player who like the clones for what they actually were. cmon on die hard falco players would be pissed if they had to play fox to get the "falco experience". long story short, Toon Link, Lucus/Ness = Clones the rest LUIGIFIED TO A NEW LVL.

I can agree with this, but I also want to expand:

Lucas/Toon Link: Complete clones, for every attack.
Gannon/Falco/Luigi: Luigi's, they have quite a few clone attacks, but have plenty of their own abilities as well
Wolf/Ike/Meta Knight(yeah, Meta Knight): Borrowers. They have VERY few attacks from other characters, but not enough to really matter. And if you don't believe Meta Knight has borrowed moves, compare his Dthrow, Uthrow, Nair and Fair to Kirby's.

 

[Magmar's Wrath]

Im not going to flame you for mentioning the whole "my character didn't get in thing" but I would just like to point out that Sakurai had now power over Geno being in the game or not. He is technically owned by Square(as is Mallow and every other original character from Super Mario RPG) so if they didn't want him in the game, he wasn't going to be in the game.

Also, the reason people are getting mad at you is because your complaining about a game your going to buy. Yes, you are suggesting ways it could have been better(granted, your doing it to other people who are complaining rather than the people that matter, like, the ones who make the game) but the fact of the matter is, if your really that upset with the roster, don't play the game. If you ARE going to buy the game, than you literally HAVE to accept what you've been given because you ARE accepting what you've been getting.

Im going to reword that last sentence because i think it sounds a little meaner than its supposed to. How can I put this? If you knew beforehand that you were going to buy food and that you weren't going to enjoy it, would you still buy it? More to the point, if you knew you were going to dislike it, would you complain about it THEN buy it? That just seems a little odd to me.

Well, the whole point of a mesage board is to say your opinion to other fans on a certain subject. So yes, it does seem strange to talk about the bad sides of a video game that isn't out yet.

But the point is, we're debating with what we find wrong with the game with others who agree. We'd like to debate that with others who disagree, who think the roster and characters are just fine. The problem I have, is that like with my last post, the person who replied to my topic took the long and time-consuming post I typed out, and he insulted me. Not my logic or my ideas, me.

We want to discuss what we felt is wrong with Brawl. It stems back from the days of Melee. Few people were thrilled to see Ganondorf as a clone of Captain Falcon, Dr. Mario and Pichu as characters instead of originals. A lot of us grew to like them, of course, it's adaption. But many wanted, if a sequel were to be made, for there to be new characters and the old ones to have upgraded movesets.

Almost 6 years later, after all that hoping and dreaming and even submitting to the creators, it seems that the final touches of this game were a cold splash of water to the face. Ganondorf would still be a clone of Falcon, even though he had incredible potentional from new games (mostly Twilight Princess). WW Link was a direct clone instead of the fun items from WW he could have had. Fox had two followers with the exact same Final Smash. And characters we had been hoping for, rooting for, ones that had high rankings in the creator's own list, were not there.

I mean, I hate to bring up specifics, but let's take Geno. VERY high in very poll he was in, the creator mentioned him by name. People supported him, they cheered for him, and then what happens? They see the final roster, and although the characters there really aren't to blame, it's human nature to get upset with what looks like the problem. All they see, after almost 6 years of waiting and intense hope, is characters with the exact same cloned movesets as the hidden characters.

That's the problem. The problem is, for reasons we don't know yet, several characters were brought in slapdash ways, and characters that had high potential are not there. And that, my friend, is why we're dissapointed.

Now, isn't that easy to see? Not insulting anyone over it, just trying to make my point. I cannot help it if the debates turn more personal than the 2008 election.

 

[BananaHammock]

I have yet to see logic from you that doesn't sound copy pasted.

What does that even mean? Logic is logic. I can't make up logic. That would defeat the purpose of the word.

 

[Pink Reaper]

I miss Dr. Mario I played him in Melee and when I saw that clones were still in Brawl but NOT Dr. Mario, I'll admit it, I was sad. Luckily he isn't my main, so I got over it quickly enough.

 

[BananaHammock]

I can agree with this, but I also want to expand:

Lucas/Toon Link: Complete clones, for every attack.
Gannon/Falco/Luigi: Luigi's, they have quite a few clone attacks, but have plenty of their own abilities as well
Wolf/Ike/Meta Knight(yeah, Meta Knight): Borrowers. They have VERY few attacks from other characters, but not enough to really matter. And if you don't believe Meta Knight has borrowed moves, compare his Dthrow, Uthrow, Nair and Fair to Kirby's.

I really don't mean to flame when I say this. Ok? Seriously, I don't.

compare Samus' and Captain's Utilts in melee. They are not clones. What constitutes a clone is B button moves. I think we can agree that Kirby and Metaknight are way too different in that regard to even be calling them borrowers.

 

[-Ka-]

What does that even mean? Logic is logic. I can't make up logic. That would defeat the purpose of the word.

I think Guglio was trying to express to you that he feels you're unoriginal in your statements.

 

[Magmar's Wrath]

.....yeah. I may be rude. But at least I have some logic in my posts. 6 years of no sequel does not equal more characters.

No, but it does bring up the expectations. With so many new series and generations popping up, people tend to expect more. Old school was seriously hyped when Pit showed up, 3rd party went bonanza when Snake came up, and the classic characters like Wario brought hope to more classics.

It was also, for some people, a struggle. Ridley fans had to put up with people saying over and over, "He's too big!". Krystal fans struggled with those that called them furries. Geno fans had to defend a one major-game character, as if the Ice Climbers, Pit, and Ness were of no reason.

Maybe it became personal to some, but it's just doesn't feel right when this happens after months and months of debating end up as a loss for you.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Seriously Magmar, while I know you're just stating points of view, you do have to stop bringing up Geno. Maybe Sakurai did want to put him in, maybe he asked Square, maybe they said no. There's too many variables for Geno to be on the same list as Ridley or Krystal. And Ridley IS in the game >_>

 

[BananaHammock]

I think Guglio was trying to express to you that he feels you're unoriginal in your statements.

Luckily for me, I don't strive for originality. I strive of evidence. Decisive evidence. Cold hard facts and irrefutable logic.

 

[Guglio]

Ok. You halfway making sense to me now. But why, if the tier list is common knowledge, are you so mad that a group of players would take the time to officially post one? I have never seen anybody hate a cookbook the way you seem to hate the tierlist. Just an observation.

I apologize if I haven't made myself clear enough.

The tier list is irrelevant because it only really matters to people who play competitively to create it. But those people already know this information, so it's useless to them. It's also useless to a new player, because you have people saying "X is better than Y" without any way that new player will understand. Thus it's irrelevant to them. Then there's the casual guy, who's played before and is familiar with the game. They probably don't care because they play casually and pick whomever for no tier-related reason.

Thus it becomes irrelevant other than to show the non-competitive players that the competitive players are good, or skilled, at the game. Tiers end up becoming a way to organize people by skill, rather than an effective way of showcasing the game's balance (which melee severley lacked).

I don't hate the tier list, I hate what it symbolizes and why it shouldn't exist.

 

[BananaHammock]

I apologize if I haven't made myself clear enough.

The tier list is irrelevant because it only really matters to people who play competitively to create it. But those people already know this information, so it's useless to them. It's also useless to a new player, because you have people saying "X is better than Y" without any way that new player will understand. Thus it's irrelevant to them. Then there's the casual guy, who's played before and is familiar with the game. They probably don't care because they play casually and pick whomever for no tier-related reason.

Thus it becomes irrelevant other than to show the non-competitive players that the competitive players are good, or skilled, at the game. Tiers end up becoming a way to organize people by skill, rather than an effective way of showcasing the game's balance (which melee severley lacked).

I don't hate the tier list, I hate what it symbolizes and why it shouldn't exist.

I may agree with almost everything you just said, but at the same time. There is no way to avoid having a tier list, so I choose to not complain about it.

 

[Guglio]

I may agree with almost everything you just said, but at the same time. There is no way to avoid having a tier list, so I choose to not complain about it.

But I'm not the one who introduced it, am I?

My original statemnt is why I think some people are disatisfied with the Brawl roster. I never claimed to actually know why, just ideas I had.

 

[Chowmein987]

I really don't mean to flame when I say this. Ok? Seriously, I don't.

compare Samus' and Captain's Utilts in melee. They are not clones. What constitutes a clone is B button moves. I think we can agree that Kirby and Metaknight are way too different in that regard to even be calling them borrowers.

i cant really agree with you. all the clones in melee had the same a attacks as well (with the exception of 2 in ganon) pretty much they were the same characters with different looks, slightly altered effects to the attacks and to their physics but essentially they "looked" the same when they fought. i wont go as far as to say "yah falco and fox play the same" cus they dont. i have a friend that cant play fox but is a beast with falco. if you look at how thats changed now theres so many different qualities in the "fox clones" that ll make them all play very different (minus the FS at least at this point its not know what difference it makes) falco throws his reflector no one knows wth wolfs down+b does just to name a few. but if you look at ness and lucus, even smashbros dojo tells you that they do the exact same thing (minus the up+a and down+a smashes) with different effects. personally i really didnt want to see ness back with the same old moves.

 

[-Ka-]

Luckily for me, I don't strive for originality. I strive of evidence. Decisive evidence. Cold hard facts and irrefutable logic.

What are you? A private investigator from the 1930s?

I kid.

 

[Magmar's Wrath]

Seriously Magmar, while I know you're just stating points of view, you do have to stop bringing up Geno. Maybe Sakurai did want to put him in, maybe he asked Square, maybe they said no. There's too many variables for Geno to be on the same list as Ridley or Krystal. And Ridley IS in the game >_>

Tis true about Geno, but I think Ridley being a boss is the exact opposite of what Ridley fans wanted. Him being a boss only deepens the wound that he won't get the chance to be playable, and strengthens that darn "he's too big" arguement.

I don't like mentioning characters unless we're specifically talking about them, so I won't. The real point is not the character's name or potential, it is their being, them representating the series they are from. We play video games for the features, for the characters, for the cool things they can do. And we want those great feelings and features in these characters, because that is their purpose in Brawl, to bring their series to life in an original manner.

To bite and breathe fire as Bowser is what makes him likeable. To pluck and throw Pikmin makes Olimar a joy. To shock the heck outta people is what Pikachu's all about. And that's why people are so dissapointed with the characters they consider clones. They don't bring their series to life if they do the same thing or close to it.

 

[BananaHammock]

i cant really agree with you. all the clones in melee had the same a attacks as well (with the exception of 2 in ganon) pretty much they were the same characters with different looks, slightly altered effects to the attacks and to their physics but essentially they "looked" the same when they fought. i wont go as far as to say "yah falco and fox play the same" cus they dont. i have a friend that cant play fox but is a beast with falco. if you look at how thats changed now theres so many different qualities in the "fox clones" that ll make them all play very different (minus the FS at least at this point its not know what difference it makes) falco throws his reflector no one knows wth wolfs down+b does just to name a few. but if you look at ness and lucus, even smashbros dojo tells you that they do the exact same thing (minus the up+a and down+a smashes) with different effects. personally i really didnt want to see ness back with the same old moves.

But can we at least agree that to be called a clone, they should have the same (or very very similar) Specials?

 

[BananaHammock]

What are you? A private investigator from the 1930s?

I kid.

Why, I'm Phoenix Wright, Ace Attorney son. lol

 

[Vigilant Gambit]

compare Samus' and Captain's Utilts in melee. They are not clones. What constitutes a clone is B button moves.

What you're doing right there is stating an opinion as fact, and that's no good.

By the way, here's the definition of clone:

2: one that appears to be a copy of an original form

And the definition of copy, to drive the point home:

1: an imitation, transcript, or reproduction of an original work

Now, I know you meant clone in the fighting game context, but the word is still being used incorrectly. The right way to say it is that Lucas' moveset is similar to Ness' moveset.

 

[Chowmein987]

but hey who can say. sakurai believes TANKS ARE SAVAGE haha

 

[Chowmein987]

Why, I'm Phoenix Wright, Ace Attorney son. lol

PHEONIX WRIGHT FTW DOWN WITH APOLLO!

 

[BananaHammock]

PHEONIX WRIGHT FTW DOWN WITH APOLLO!

Not to stray off topic but...Have you seen the Prosecutor from Apollo? That game is worth playing for him alone.

 

[Pink Reaper]

I really don't mean to flame when I say this. Ok? Seriously, I don't.

compare Samus' and Captain's Utilts in melee. They are not clones. What constitutes a clone is B button moves. I think we can agree that Kirby and Metaknight are way too different in that regard to even be calling them borrowers.

Im responding k? Not mad at what you said or anything, just defending my post.

If you look at alot of my other posts you'll notice I say pretty much the same thing. I know that because two characters have similar attacks they are not clones. But Kirby and Meta Knight have the same build and are from the same game. I don't think they are clones, not even a little. But, the arguement being used against Wolf is that, despite the fact that his special attacks don't look the same as Fox's the fact that they are a similar makes them clones. Im just stating that there are OTHER characters who "borrow" moves, but they aren't really clones.

I would sort of like to ask, why is it that the B moves make a clone? In that sense, Lucario and Samus are clones becuase they have charged energy attacks for their neutral B's. Kirby and DDD(and maybe even Wario I guess) are clones becuase THEIR Neutral B's are all swallow type moves. And you could even argue that Kirby and Ike are clones because their Up B's are so similar. Idk, just throwing it out there.

Edit: Forgot Bowser and Charizard

 

[BananaHammock]

Im responding k? Not mad at what you said or anything, just defending my post.

If you look at alot of my other posts you'll notice I say pretty much the same thing. I know that because two characters have similar attacks they are not clones. But Kirby and Meta Knight have the same build and are from the same game. I don't think they are clones, not even a little. But, the arguement being used against Wolf is that, despite the fact that his special attacks don't look the same as Fox's the fact that they are a similar makes them clones. Im just stating that there are OTHER characters who "borrow" moves, but they aren't really clones.

I would sort of like to ask, why is it that the B moves make a clone? In that sense, Lucario and Samus are clones becuase they have charged energy attacks for their neutral B's. Kirby and DDD(and maybe even Wario I guess) are clones becuase THEIR Neutral B's are all swallow type moves. And you could even argue that Kirby and Ike are clones because their Up B's are so similar. Idk, just throwing it out there.

I meant more along the lines of characters who share all four specials. Like Ganondorf and CF in melee. I think that if they had the same specials, but mostly different regulars/aerials, etc... they would still be clones. It probably wouldn't work vice versa.

 

[Chowmein987]

Not to stray off topic but...Have you seen the Prosecutor from Apollo? That game is worth playing for him alone.

Negative, but i shall investigate. back to the weather with, ollie.

 

[Guglio]

I love the Ace Attourney series.

Good stuff.

 

[Guglio]

Well I guess this thread ended.

I'm off to bed, great to debate with a fine gentleman, fear4, it was fun.

Who knows, maybe I'll actually like brawl at one point,

 

[Finn Macool]

Fox, falco and wolf may have the same final smash but FS will (most likely) not be used in competitive smash so its really most dissapointing for the casual players who would prefer something unique for their char, which surpises me as sakurai seems to be going out of the way to make the game casual friendly and a smash attack wouldnt need much time to create as unlike most attacks they wouldnt have to worry too much about balance as they know itll be ridicuolusly strong and not used in competitive play

 

[kainsword]

They're more easily understood when kept under control. We don't need floods of threads all pertaining to hating the game in which we are looking forward to.

Usually, voicing your opinion means getting it heard and trying to fix a problem. You're complaints are falling on deaf ears here. I'm not saying you're not allowed to have an opinion, but it's just useless and annoying to see the whole board cluttered up with hate, when none of it will matter soon.

Realize there is a reason that the "floods of threads" continue. Many, if not a majority of the big Brawl fans here are legitemately disappointed with the roster.

I think the first person to blame truly is Miyamoto Iwata here. He announced Brawl as a launch title and he didn't even have a director or team ready to start production. This is the reason it's been delayed almost 2 years. 2 years is a small amount of time to produce a game from the ground up. It's not as if you're making Halo 3, sure you update the graphics, but after rebalancing the 20 or so weapons in Halo 2, you can go ahead and make new weapons and vehicles. The problem here in Brawl and that probably led to this shaky roster is that Sakurai had lots of things under his belt. From totally redesigning some characters like Fox, nerfing and rebalancing on 30 or more attacks per character, and then adding a complete story mode with cinematics and individually made stages, etc. It's a lot of effort put forth for so many Smash Bros. firsts. Halo had a story mode and online compatibility since the first game, Smash Bros needs to please the fans with more of what they had and introduce these new concepts on a grand scale in a matter of 2 years or so.

Miyamoto Iwata needs to get his *** up and ask Sakurai very early on for the next Smash Bros game if we are truly to get something big. Again, a big factor in the game was TIME CONSTRAINT. The game was delayed almost as much as Twilight Princess was, but the thing is that Twilight Princess delievered. Brawl's roster did not deliver to much of the hardcore crowd here.

EDIT: My bad, Iwata announced SSBB, not Miyamoto. Miyamoto is Mario's creator, and I got him confused with Iwata. I apologize.

 

[TrueBlue23]

About the whole "ugh Wolf is in thing", he was actually just as wanted as Krystal was, his fans just wern't as vocal. "Wolf is just a 3rd clone".
No hes not hes even more different than fox and Falco are to eachother. And 90% of the people who whine that Wolf is a lousy clone need to realize two things.

1. This roster was not just made for you
2. Your opinion isn't always the popular vote, just because YOU think a character is better or YOU think they have a higher chance doesn't mean that Sakurai, or anyone else for that matter does.

This is not directed at the TC, but at morons whining about people like Wolf being included in Brawl over Krystal.

But TC I agree that you do have valid reasons for being upset over what they could have done with the roster. It does seem that alot more effort went into single player this time around.

 

[Finn Macool]

wasnt it iwata that announced brawl not miyamoto?