People Copying Videos

[JFox]

lord knight i miss you

Not gonna lie, i kinda agree with m2k, although i dount i'd care enough to tell people not to record me. even if its a small advantage, its an advantage none the less. and you guys have to face it, catching people off guard is a big part of smash. sure adapting is another part, but this isn't chess people- its not just all about who is the smartest player. sometimes creativity means a lot in this game.

still, i doubt i'd really care enough to tell people not to record me

 

[The Phenom]

I support this idea+conservation of originality by supressing it from the public.
----------
CLASS OF 2009!!!-COMBO-...

MOST ORIGINAL G&W(MELEE)

 

[Rocann]

The whole point isn't about how they don't want other players to get better, or they're worried about other, lesser players copying their stuff.

It's because they don't want the other, already top players to see their lesser-known stuff and know what to do when they fight them.

 

[pixelbind]

IMO

When ppl copy their top players for their character, they become really predictable since they probably dont know how to use the style to its fullest extent

 

[Sucumbio]

I might start recording sandbag executions while in waiting room... I wouldn't care if my matches were recorded at a tournament cause I can be like "hey ma look I'm on tv" or some ****

As for copying what I see on u toob ... ha ha ha ha ha ha THEN WHY DID YOU PUT THERE!?!?!?!?! la la la la laaa la. saa wheat! It's all about ego. Look what I can do, ma. I made the little bat thingy fly UNDER the stage.

Though that vid of all the characters trying to go under FD is pretty funny. ^^;

 

[The Phenom]

All of the above thoughts are self-evident.


Heres an lesson from the OLDSCHOOL!!!

We of the first kind; the first smashers; the first contestants see to that of our hard work/dedication in our investments, to create better of ourselves(imagine what) in person and gamer could not be recognized through of only by duplicating what is already acquirable profound!, knowledge.

IT IS BEST TO SHED THIS TYPE OF LIGHT IN THE MACRO SCALE FOR THE BEST OF HUMANITY AND TO ASWELL, THE SMASH CULTURE; I was the only smasher who ever was next to an ALIEN BEING.
---------
CLASS OF 2009!!!

 

[Sucumbio]

All of the above thoughts are self-evident.


Heres an lesson from the OLDSCHOOL!!!

We of the first kind; the first smashers; the first contestants see to that of our hard work/dedication in our investments, to create better of ourselves(imagine what) in person and gamer could not be recognized through of only by duplicating what is already acquirable profound!, knowledge.

IT IS BEST TO SHED THIS TYPE OF LIGHT IN THE MACRO SCALE FOR THE BEST OF HUMANITY AND TO ASWELL, THE SMASH CULTURE; I was the only smasher who ever was next to an ALIEN BEING.
---------
CLASS OF 2009!!!

Either I'm missing something, or you're wacked out nah, I swear this site omits words after I hit "submit" just to make my grammar look ********. ^_^;

But yeah, self evident in that they're ... visible? Or.. obvious. And by original smasher you mean, you started on 64? That'd be my wife, and I'll attest she's never recorded herself, and her surprise attacks definitely continue to beat ppl, even me who's played her regularly in both melee and brawl though brawl more cause I -have- to use a wii mote.

 

[Nic64]

as someone who's constantly stealing stuff and still sucks at smash, I agree with this thread

 

[metaXzero]

Uuuh. So more people are following M2K's example? ugh. lame and dumb.

They are top players who can't really be replicated. If someone actually beats them just by watching a vid of them, they may not be that great.

*sigh* But M2K plays Brawl mostly for money and people learning is not helping him :/

 

[kr3wman]

For Elite Ears only?

WTF is this, this is not SRK in the early 2000s wtf.

 

[metaXzero]

In the end, it's the TO's decision, not the participants. If the TO wants a match recorded, they get a match recorded. If someone doesn't want to be recorded, well they don't have to be at the tourny do they?

 

[Blackshadow]

M2K likes money. Putting up videos of him shows other players his little tricks. We know M2K can adapt to people who learn his little tricks, but it's possible it could put him in 2nd instead of 1st place (we're talking top level players here). So, temporarily, M2K earns less money until a counter is found. This may advance the metagame, but it also makes it harder to win, since you need to think about two new tricks that could be employed now. So, the smart thing to do is to ensure the full amount of money is flowing into his pockets and requests for video footage not to be taken of him. It's that simple.

tl;dr M2K is a money-grubbing whore.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

There's a post by AltF4Warrior about the creative process that's VERY good. I hope he doesn't mind me posting this here, because it's so unbelievably relebant. I totally agree with Jesiah.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=6667113&postcount=145

6) The Myth of Originality. One of the most common arguments you will see (in court) in regards to copyright law is an appeal to "originality". That holders of copyrights have something that they invented all of their own, that it is original, unique, and special. Therefore they deserve "protection" of this idea.

This is of course absurd. And not at all representative of the actual creative process. Creativity is derivative. Everything anyone does is not completely original, but rather builds upon the works of others. Sometimes these works are downplayed and called "influences" so as to not seem like they are merely "copying" them. But this is of course the case.

Just look at the Disney Corporation. Disney is one of the largest Copyright abusers around. They guard their copyrights with such an iron grip that they sue anyone for even hinting at using what they consider "theirs". They even went so far as to bribe congress into extending copyright law just so they wouldn't lose Mickey Mouse.

But where did they get all of these copyrights? Are they "original", and special? Of course not! Look at just about every Disney work there is. Pocahontas, Hercules, Snow White, etc... Almost all of Disney's works are derivatives of either historical events or The Brothers Grimm.

The Lord of the Rings is a rip off of Richard Wagner's "Ring Cycle". The list goes on and on.

But you see, my point is not to smear artists and claim they are just ripping each other off. My point is to clarify that this IS the creative process. Creativity is taking that which existed before you and improving it, making it your own. Walt Disney was so successful because he added something to those tales he borrowed. Something uniquely his.

But what about today? Today the table has turned. Now the older generation does not want to share. They do not want to allow others to create derivative works based on their ideas. Copyright law specifically prevents the use of copyrighted work for derivative works!

They are destroying the creative process.

Do not allow this. You must fight for the right to allow derivative works. This is not "copying" this is not "stealing". This is being an artist.

 

[JesiahTEG]

Wow. That's a great post.

 

[teh_spamerer]

Wow. That's a great post.

It's awful. Copyright law is not infinite in duration. It lasts until a certain amount of years after the original author died. Disney doesn't care if you write fanfictions about Mickey or make youtube videos with Mickey. They DO care if you try to sell these as you are making a profit off of what is 90+% their ideas. I'm not saying Snow White, Hercules, etc. are all original works but they didn't hurt the Brothers Grimm as they were long dead at this point.

about LotR being a ripoff:

J. R. R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings appears to borrow some elements from Der Ring des Nibelungen[aka Ring Cycle]; however, Tolkien himself denied that he had been inspired by Wagner's work, saying that "Both rings were round, and there the resemblance ceases."[9] Some similarities arise because Tolkien and Wagner both drew upon the same source material for inspiration, including the Völsunga saga and the Poetic Edda

From http://www.vangor.de/mittelerde/etep/1ring5.html

Tolkien did not like Wagner and his interpretations of the German myths. "He delighted his friends with recitations from Beowulf, the Pearl, and Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, and recounted horrific episodes from the Norse Volsungasaga, with a passing jibe at Wagner whose interpretation of the myths he held in contempt" [193] and "The comparison of his Ring with the Nibelungenlied and Wagner always annoyed Tolkien; he once said 'Both rings were round and there the resemblance ceased.' [194]

In terms of creative background, both Rings have a common ancestry and, as ingredients of a mythological setting, have certain symbolic similarities. But it is quite clear that Tolkien's work owes nothing to Der Ring des Nibelungen, and it is impossible to draw comparisons between the two works. The few similarities that there are operate as faint and disparate echoes of one another, coming from a distant and common source.

More on topic: There is very little actual intelligence required to play Brawl. The game is nothing more than memorizing the best options for certain situations(this includes not making stupid decisions like airdodging into charged smashes/Kirby's hammer, etc.), spacing, and being patient. It's highly repetitive and extremely simple. Releasing videos isn't going to advance the metagame of Brawl. Yes, people will benefit from being able to steal strategies but the best strategies are going to stay the same. That being said, I don't really care if all top player videos are released since Brawl is terrible.

 

[$haDy]

Could melee also be described in that fashion?

 

[JesiahTEG]

Dear Teh_Spamerer,

You're missing the point. The point behind it is the creative process. The medium which he used in that post could be anything, it didn't have to be Disney.

Sincerely, Jesiah The Evolutionary Gamer

 

[Espy Rose]

There is very little actual intelligence required to play _____. The game is nothing more than memorizing the best options for certain situations(this includes not making stupid decisions like _____, etc.), spacing, and being patient. It's highly repetitive and extremely simple. Releasing videos isn't going to advance the metagame of _____. Yes, people will benefit from being able to steal strategies but the best strategies are going to stay the same.

Fixed.
Now you can put any fighting game in there, and it'd still be valid. It's like mad libs.

 

[teh_spamerer]

Could melee also be described in that fashion?

If Chess can be described the exact same way as Checkers in terms of complexity, sure. Fortunately it can't be since Checkers has been solved(kind of like how it's impossible to lose in tic-tac-toe if you know what to do.) So no, Melee cannot also be described in that fashion. For that matter, no "good" competitive game can be described in that fashion unless someone has extremely low standards for what they consider to be "good".

Fixed.
Now you can put any fighting game in there, and it'd still be valid. It's like mad libs.

That is incorrect as you would know if you played any good fighting games. Good fighting games are not highly repetitive and extremely simple because infinitely more options exist in them. Spacing 1-3 moves with little to no followups except in a select few situations where you use an unstoppable, mindless strategy is the vast majority of gameplay in Brawl. Summary: only a few good options = simple boring game.

 

[Ryan-K]

Fixed.
Now you can put any fighting game in there, and it'd still be valid. It's like mad libs.

lmao

yeah good luck with that.

how's that professional third strike/sf4/cvs2/tekken/GG/BB/melee career working out for you with that formula.

Oh wait, I forgot you don't know anything.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

It's awful. ]

Dude. Go register for the debate hall, I'm sure your input would be very much appreciated there. AltF4 is always looking for challengers to his beliefs anyway, lol.

Check your visitor messages btw.

 

[The Sauce Boss]

Exactly, that's my point. It doesn't matter if you have vids or not, the originals will always be the better players. People need to stop worrying.

I sort of skimmed over the thread and thought you were saying that "pros" should take their videos off the internet or something, and I was ready to post a nice paragraph about why that is INTENSELY stupid.

Then I saw that quote and actually read the OP.

People afraid of being copied, I do not understand it. Brawl (I can't really speak for melee) is not really something you can copy. If you think you have a super original play style you need to stop kidding yourself. Not to say that people don't play differently, they do, but by a much smaller margin than the popular belief.

Oh you use diddy kong and you glide toss bananas? (Who doesn't)
Wow he uses utilt to KO with snake? (I am going to steal that!)
Look at how that pit uses a lot of arrows! ()


The real difference in players is mostly subtleties like spacing, predicting, and mindsets. This idea of super original play styles is mostly bs. This is why no player should be afraid of putting videos online. There is very little that people are not aware of on how to use their character. Let us say you play marth. Chances are you use a lot of fair. Every good marth knows marth's fair is good. How arrogant do you need to be to think that you are shedding some huge light on the noobish masses in showing them that using a lot of fair is how to play marth? Furthermore, how arrogant do you have to be to think they are all copying you, when it is probably more plausible to assume that it is just a good way to play the character, thus why so many people play like you, chances are they figured it out without watching you.

Sure if you discover some TRULY different technique go ahead and hide it. If it actually works in tournament others will see it anyway and it will be copied regardless of if you post it online or not. But most "styles" or not something truly original. It is merely a good way to play the character. People figure out good ways to play their character. Claiming ownership to a "style" and getting all pissy because other people also play their character correctly, well that is just STUUUUUUPID.

 

[Jun.]

m2k is living proof that if one can utilize others' techniques and incorporate them with his/her own style, it can be successful. M2k undoubtedly uses techniques discovered by the marth/fox players before him but he uses them effectively and has created a style that suits him for winning.

videos only help the general community to improve by informing everyone about basics and possible techniques.

videos don't give away the player's mind. Which I believe is the only thing that differentiates between the amateur and the pro.

 

[Requiem]

I think a lot of people that posted in this topic and dissagree, don't fully understand why they did it.

For instance, the examples given by The Sauce Boss.

I don't think m2k's worry is about people playing exactly like he plays his character, but more about how he plays matchups, he worry's that people will know what to do as a diddy after watching him play the best diddy in town, and people copying this.

With that out of the way, I still think it's ********.

 

[East]

That's part of being competitive. Does the Indianapolis Colts stop allowing ESPN to show highlights of their games so the defense won't know his plays? Does the Dallas Cowboys blackout all their games so no one can watch them on TV?

This is a golden example.

For instance, the examples given by The Sauce Boss.

I don't think m2k's worry is about people playing exactly like he plays his character, but more about how he plays matchups, he worry's that people will know what to do as a diddy after watching him play the best diddy in town, and people copying this.

He uses the best character in the game, who has no bad match-ups. Who gives a flying flip if people know what to do against him after watching his videos. When it comes right down to the very highest levels of play [which he is categorized in] it shouldn't even matter. The entire community stresses the ideology "play to win" like a rubberband about to snap and this includes studying and learning about your opponent if necessary. If M2K or anyone else for that matter doesn't want their videos to be shown, then they can quit.

Screw that, I have like 15 vids of me vs M2K that I'm putting up ASAP LMAO.

The TO's actually have the power. Actually, now that I think about it, if the TO wants to, he can make rules that no splitting is allowed, AND videos belong to the TO.

What would M2K or any other pro do if every tourney they went to the TO said that the videos belonged to the TO with intention to post them up, quit? No, they'd suck it up and play in the tournament. If they cry and whine about it, they can quit. They're not hurting anyone else but themselves

 

[Rain(ame)]

All in all...it's gonna happen. People copy other people...whether they like it or not. If you get two people that play the same character....and they know each other, you're going to get pieces of styles that they copied. Whether it was intentional or not.

Ken didn't care about Videos because it doesn't show exactly what a player can do. HOWEVER, Ken did care about training other people because he said he was afraid of them learning his style. (He mentioned so himself in some interview he had.) M2K doesn't mind playing other people repeatedly...giving them advice, etc. However...maybe he minds on the video thing? Is there any difference? Not really...both have a silly fear that the other didn't mind.

I digress- People look for something good out of another player's style and then incorporate it into their own. It's going to happen. The statement about the original always being better isn't true. That'd be like saying a son could never surpass his father in something they both do. That...just isn't true. It should be that the original is USUALLY better. It was also, said however...that being able to PROPERLY utilize it is a different story.

Another example (I don't care if it's an anime...it still applies): In Prince of Tennis Ryoma comes back one day to hear that a kid is copying his style and beating people with it. I mean...he copied right down to the tee...motion and everything. Takes him by shock a little. Then he realizes...it's just not the same...he doesn't know the proper application of it. Also...he doesn't have the proper experience, understanding or training to be good. The kid gets soundly beat by him.

I've seen it already, myself. I've got friends of mine that see a character I use...think I only win because they're cheap and then tries to use that character. They'll get some practice in without me knowing, and then pull the character out to show off a bit. I'll give a perfect example...DoA4 and Christie. Now I don't play the game...I had probably played it 3 times prior. I was just racking up victories. They spend a couple weeks training, and my one friend is SO confident. Bragging that I can't beat him because he has Christie. He loses and I'm still waiting for it. When he picks Christie...I PURPOSEFULLY pick my secondary, Elliot. I soundly beat him. Then I pick another character I'm not too familiar with, Li feng...and win again. I told him once, and tell him again...."Just because you know the character, and copy what I do....doesn't mean you'll win." Then he challenges me to a Christie ditto...RAAAAAAPE. Then I leave the Christie out just to let it rub in a bit.

If you know your character well enough...and know your own playing style...you can't lose to it. There's really nothing to worry about.

 

[AvaricePanda]

...or people just don't want their videos up.

I mean, I really don't care either way, but I don't see why a lot of people are saying, "These people are stupid and worrying about nothing, they should put their vids up because they'll always be the best/they're stubborn and no one's copying them/they should help the community." Some people, for no reason, just don't like too many videos of themselves playing up. And some do.

What people do with their videos shouldn't really matter. Now, if their opponent/TO wants the match to be up, then the match should most likely go up. But if the opponent doesn't either/is leaning to the no side and the guy doesn't want his match up, no one's forcing him to. Besides that, high-profile matches from tournies usually always end up online unless they're just friendlies on a random date at someone's house.