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People are worried about Project M dying, what do you think?

Volt-Ikazuchi

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 30, 2014
Messages
356
Location
Brazil
All right, with GimR finally admitting he's too afraid of the Big N to be hanging around with PM videos, I'm planning on starting a Youtube account dedicated to be an archive of PM videos.

So uh, what usually happens when a channel is shut down by Copyright Infringement? People send the whole Phoenix Wright crew or just say "If you don't take this out, u gon git rekt"?

Also, don't forget to tell people where the streams at, we need footage for new tech!
 

Mazdamaxsti

Smash Lord
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not brawl
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Mazdamaxsti
There are, in my opinion, three things that keep fighting games alive (especially one as big as smash). These three I call BSRW. Balance, Skill, Recency, and Watchability. I will explain my case on why PM will not be dying, but might get slowly pushed away for a bit. Balance and skill are worth three points due to being the long lasting decision if a game like Smash, and watch ability being worth two.

Melee:
Melee is not very balanced, but this is because there is a huge gap between the good and the bad. Meaning viable characters are super viable, while the rest are mostly trash. I would say since it has no SUPER character, but instead a super group, I can give it a single point and a half for balance. +1.5

Melee takes a lot if skill to play and master, and from my experience, the most skill out of any smash game/mod to date. +3

Melee is a blast to watch. With fast and flashy gameplay, and rivalries and good commentators, +2.

Not recent. +0

Total: 6.5/9

Brawl:
Brawl is probably the most unbalanced smash game ever. Meta Knight being SS and flooding tournaments, and really only top tiers or high tiers being actually viable. +.5

Brawl doesn't take NEARLY as much skill, there isn't even combos for goodness sake, and defensive gameplay being rewarded more. I will give it a half for being like every smash game. You still have to learn your character and get good with them. +1

Pretty boring to watch, especially since being campy is the entire basis of the game. +.5

Not recent, but it was the reason why Melee almost died, the same thing is happening now. +0

Total: 2/9

PM:
Project M is really balanced, and with patches that come out to help it even more, I gotta give it a +3.

Project M takes a lot of skill, but I find it a bit easier. +2.5

Project M is also really fun to watch since it is a game basically based around competitive gameplay.It also is balanced and has more variety in tournaments. +2

Not recent. +0

Total: 7.5/9

Smash 4:
Smash 4 is the most balanced Nintendo-created smash game to date, with a lot of characters being viable. I can give this a +2.5, since the top 3 is way above the rest of the cast in viability.

Smash 4 is no longer about tech skill. But now focuses on reads so much more. while a campy playstyle is still more rewarded, I feel like this game isn't like Brawl skill wise and actually takes skill to play properly, especially since combos are back in. +2

Smash 4 has a lot of hype matches. But a LOT of bore fests too. Being still a bit campy, aggressive play isn't as easy to come by, meaning less hype, longer matches, and bashed on. +1

New, yes. New games get really hyped. +1

Total: 6.5/9

"But wait a minute! Melee is the same as Smash 4? How?"
Smash 4 is still new, giving a huge amount of hype and no true "tier list" has been composed. anything could happen. Hype will go down, balance and stuff will be truly discovered, putting it lower.

"But PM is so high? How could it be dying?"
It's a mod which is hard to get in the first place, on a practically dead console on a practically dead game that Nintendo can't support and big streams can't stream it. It has all the qualities of an excellent living game, but it falls short where it matters, legally. Also, just like Brawl to Melee, a new game trashes the old one, but the one that us truly better will survive in the end, which Project M can do.

"Melee worse than Project M?"
In game wise, yes. But Melee has been out for a decade, people stick with what they know and love, which is Melee, that's why Melee will be the last to die.

"Why make the list?"
Actually a whole different point than to "Project M will never die lol" point is that no matter how bad or good a game, the one before the most recent one gets trashed out, that being Project M/Brawl, but Project M is good enough to stay alive while Brawl had too little things gong for it to actually stay. And I'm bored.
 
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xpnet

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 16, 2007
Messages
30
PM isn't dieing..

As long as people love all the action of Melee with all the additions of Brawl PM will be here to stay.

That G guy wants to be a Nintendo hype man but keep the money he made from PM. I found that youtube / user / VideoGameBootCamp spelled out is the best way to block his videos. No more ad revenue from me until he creates a new "fresh" channel that isn't artificially inflated with PM subscribers.

I like everything he did up until his handling of PM and telling people not to stream Melee at Apex to hype numbers. That really rubbed me the wrong way and will be some time before he is unblocked.
 
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Volt-Ikazuchi

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 30, 2014
Messages
356
Location
Brazil
PM isn't dead. The only things slowing down PM right now are the lack of general footage and a large major that every PM player in the world can point and say "I'm definitely hyped for that tourney, this is the biggest PM tourney of the year."

What we need is to get some hype going. With GimR purging PM from VGBC, PM is on the news. We only need to ride off that exposition to get enough hype and say "Meh, F*** VGBC, we got X streaming PM all day anyway"

People will only let PM die if we let it. All we need is some good exposure, get them stream times. We can get that. Let's start streaming our local tourneys people!
 

Gidy

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I'm taking a break from Smash 4 right now. I'm kind of sick of getting hoo hah'd by Diddy's who picked him up only because he's top tier when I've been playing Mario/Doctor Mario through his high and low times as a decent character. Even though Project M is sort of in the dark right now, kind of like Melee when it got dropped my MLG, I go back to it and have a grand old time. Not saying Smash 4 is bad, it's my favorite in the series.

I just hope Project M will be at The Big House 5. That's the last big tournament I can think of where it's possible to be streamed.
 

IronChar

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 12, 2013
Messages
362
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West side
lol looks like the passion is alive, I used to be concerned- but only scrubs/mainstream abandoned ship.

the creation of PM, its gameplay, where it comes from and its story is unlike ANYTHING the console gaming world has seen before it. Of course a new game is gonna take away interest but ****, alot of newbs are even saying "make smash 4 liek pm pleaz"


I agree mostly with what madmaxsti said. However SDR is far in development and brings crap melee characters up to speed, minor buffs to the A tier characters and leaves alone the top tier all while keeping the melee goodness- I can't tell you guys enough to check this mod out (in signature)

Brawl sucked gameplay wise but had its own cool little tech and give us PM, Smash 4 is still too young of a meta to judge but so far looks much better then brawl.

give it time. PM will shine, even if its underground. Just host more local tournaments with PM in them
 

Kei_Takaro

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
1,007
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Underneath FD
I ask myself, where do I see Smash 4 in 10 years? It'll probably have lessened attention by then, or be phased by a newer Smash.

Meanwhile, I think PM will just grow more and more in all aspects, playerbase, technology - whether in the hacking scene or in the meta, more characters, more support, maybe more stages and modes.

Just throwing that out there. We can do this.
 

Daakun

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
135
They've already gone too far in the Brawl+ "we changed it because we can, now shut up" direction with too many characters.

Lucario and Wario I was willing to forgive; they were never in Melee to begin with, so getting creative with them didn't hurt too bad, and the new Wario is what I felt he should have been in Brawl anyway.
But the current thing in Zelda's slot is not Zelda, and things only seem to be getting worse on that front.
 

Stryker

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
206
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Eastern Canada
I feel like the Evo announcement will actually help the Project M scene.
Nintendo (whom we know has no interest in whether our games are competitively balanced or not) has decided that there are certain S4 stages that aren't allowed, even in a game that already struggles with getting enough stages.

Hopefully this, compounded with other things, shows that we are better as a grassroots community, and people will realize that Nintendo just does not have the same vision for any smash, even Smash 4, as it's players.
And, as most PM players have been aware, if they want competition and a large selection of competitively viable characters and stages, PM is the place to be!
 

IronChar

Smash Journeyman
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Dec 12, 2013
Messages
362
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West side
smash 4 in 10 years?

well... I think it'll have more characters/stages (though DLC) and so many patches that the meta will be thrown for a loop.

IMO its sakurai's last smash bros... how good can the series become in newer games without him as a director? definitely different. something I don't care about right now-

apparently so does majority. cause vmelee is "still the ****" over 10 years- it stands the test of time and pushes epsorts to the next level. I know why smash 4 is disliked- fun game to play but boring as hell to watch. melee/PM has both

smash 4 has megaman,shulk and pac-man among other newcomers. mewtwo coming back to prove more characters can be added AND ability to patch the gameplay/ change the meta, these points alone make it interesting and it'll likely keep up with PM/melee
 

Terotrous

Smash Champion
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Ontario
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He's good. There was a video uploaded of him a month ago; same exact Knuckles i played pre3.0, If i had to judge it upfront tbh I'm thoroughly impressed how well they did with him, and how well they immortalized the parts of Knuckles from S&K and SA1 that made him, well, him.
I just looked up the aforementioned video and I have to say, I am instantly hyped again.

New characters really are the key. Just make a trailer showing some new characters and we should be golden. Fixing a couple unnecessary nerfs from 3.5 would be gravy.
 
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Lorenzo The Comic

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some place pronounced like a Pokémon Website
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New characters really are the key. Just make a trailer showing some new characters and we should be golden. Fixing a couple unnecessary nerfs from 3.5 would be gravy.
I wouldn't expect a trailer for another character until they finally settle on who would be the next character, given the complex stuff regarding the Clone Engine.
 

Banjodorf

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I wouldn't expect a trailer for another character until they finally settle on who would be the next character, given the complex stuff regarding the Clone Engine.
I'm extremely confident they've settled on a few, if not all of them. But still given the release gap between 3.0 and 3.5, wouldn't expect a trailer for another few months.
 

Volt-Ikazuchi

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 30, 2014
Messages
356
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Brazil
Why hasn't this flamebait been locked yet?
Because we're the Smash Community. We don't use things the intended way.
We just ignored the flame bait and decided to have a thoughtful discussion and throw out some ideas to get PM through this lack of exposure.
 

metaXzero

Smash Champion
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Jan 9, 2008
Messages
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Under the ground.
They've already gone too far in the Brawl+ "we changed it because we can, now shut up" direction with too many characters.

Lucario and Wario I was willing to forgive; they were never in Melee to begin with, so getting creative with them didn't hurt too bad, and the new Wario is what I felt he should have been in Brawl anyway.
But the current thing in Zelda's slot is not Zelda, and things only seem to be getting worse on that front.
What exactly is your problem with Zelda? I'm sure you can play her the Melee way and ignore her new tricks if you really wanted to. Not that I really see why anyone would like Melee Zelda besides Sheik pros deciding to troll.
 

Alex Night

Smash Ace
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No way, we're not going anywhere. We've come too far with all that we've done trying to develop the metagame for four years to have it teared down now. People say that this situation is akin to what happened to Melee when Brawl came out and I agree that the same is happening when Smash 4 came out. (although Nintendo stepping in as sponsors is also a huge factor as well which may be a harder hurdle to overcome if they plan on staying around past this year) I agree that the only way for Project M to stay alive is doing the same thing that Melee fans have done and go for broke trying to have tourneys to rebuild the hype. What happens at EVO 2015 this year is another factor that may help Project M rebuild steam, but the main thing is to downright support it.

This segment here may be fitting to what I'm talking about. http://youtu.be/OZZmTITVNXU?t=3m23s We'll be back, we're not done yet!
 

Rizner

Smash Ace
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Messages
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FL -> AZ -> OH
No way, we're not going anywhere. We've come too far with all that we've done trying to develop the metagame for four years to have it teared down now. People say that this situation is akin to what happened to Melee when Brawl came out and I agree that the same is happening when Smash 4 came out. (although Nintendo stepping in as sponsors is also a huge factor as well which may be a harder hurdle to overcome if they plan on staying around past this year) I agree that the only way for Project M to stay alive is doing the same thing that Melee fans have done and go for broke trying to have tourneys to rebuild the hype. What happens at EVO 2015 this year is another factor that may help Project M rebuild steam, but the main thing is to downright support it.

This segment here may be fitting to what I'm talking about. http://youtu.be/OZZmTITVNXU?t=3m23s We'll be back, we're not done yet!
What do you mean about evo helping to rebuild stream for project m?
 

Baby_Sneak

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Brawl doesn't take NEARLY as much skill, there isn't even combos for goodness sake, and defensive gameplay being rewarded more. I will give it a half for being like every smash game. You still have to learn your character and get good with them. +1

Pretty boring to watch, especially since being campy is the entire basis of the game. +.5

Not recent, but it was the reason why Melee almost died, the same thing is happening now. +0

Total: 2/9
small nitpick, but the bolded and underlined is very untrue. Brawl took a different type of skill than melee, doesn't make it any less. Brawl was more mental and patience-oriented, melee was more mental and physical-oriented. No combos didn't take away the reward for hitting someone, you could still read someone's air dodge.

with that out of the way
PM dying isn't really true. slowed down yes, but dying? def not.
 

Alex Night

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What do you mean about evo helping to rebuild stream for project m?
I'm talking about how Smash 4's success will work out. Apex 2015 had a bit of a mixed reception mostly because of how the crowd was chanting, "Melee!" during the reward ceremony. EVO 2015 is definitely going to determine the direction on how Smash 4 will be turning to. I have seen the community get divided about the EVO 2015 ruleset on Customs (which I am personally for customs by the way), but I don't know. I just think that what happens at EVO 2015 for Smash 4 may determine how soon Project M will rise again although I may be wrong considering I just heard about the tourney, "Shots Fired". Can't wait for that tourney tomorrow.
 

metaXzero

Smash Champion
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Under the ground.
You haven't said much of anything @ anikom15 anikom15 . You just threw some vague statement about PM trying to be Melee 2 even though PM is still pretty far from Melee (though close enough that the likes of Melee top players like Mango, Lucky, or Leffen can win tournaments with their spacies despite all the new match-ups and the slight nerfs spacies have recieved).
 
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anikom15

Smash Apprentice
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Jun 16, 2014
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Well I guess one example is the developers purposefully making spacies top tier instead of letting things happen naturally, and then changes like replacing F.L.U.D.D. with Mario Tornado.
 

metaXzero

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Well I guess one example is the developers purposefully making spacies top tier instead of letting things happen naturally, and then changes like replacing F.L.U.D.D. with Mario Tornado.
Purposely? The only thing purposeful behind spacies is making them like their Melee selves (though nerfed). The whole project was originally born from an attempt to remake Melee Falco after all. And if you're referring to the nerfs the top tiers of previous PM editions, they weren't exactly unwarranted. Former undisputed tops like Lucas or Mewtwo are still considered top 10 and they aren't afraid of no spacies.

As for FLUDD, I think the tornado is just more of a fan favorite and helps Mario more in a Melee style environment.
 

ShionKaito438

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I don't see Project M dying any time soon. As much as I've enjoyed (and am enjoying) Smash 4, Project M has a completely different playstyle with the Melee gameplay mechanics. Melee is still relevant without any content being added. PM has the advantage of updates adding more and more content that will bring in more players.
 

MegaMissingno

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They haven't "purposefully made spacies top tier", they've merely kept spacies faithful because there's no reason to mess with them and piss off spacie mains. They're just not going to drop spacies down to bottom tier, because there's no reason to do that.

The reason spacies are always good is because they're basically finished characters. They have a well-designed and versatile kit that's tried and true, and everyone knows how . Whereas a lot of other characters are still under active development trying to figure out how to best balance them, they're bouncing around because they're not done yet. And the players' metagame itself is still developing as we're learning how to use them, compared to Melee vets who had a decade+ head start. The new characters are all over the place because they're new, but the veterans are known to already be good. And they'll never not be good, because why would they deliberately make a character not good anymore?
 

MegaMissingno

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Well another big major without us just got announced, SmashCon. Just when I was starting to think things were gonna get better after Apex...
 

metaXzero

Smash Champion
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Jan 9, 2008
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Under the ground.
It seems lot more TOs have bought into either the idea of becoming REALLY good friends with Nintendo and/or have become increasingly afraid of Nintendo pulling an EVO 2k13 or MLG 2k11 over Project M (even though Nintendo pulled that crap without needing mods as an excuse). I just don't get it.

It doesn't sound like SmashCon will be intentionally keeping an unofficial PM presence out like Apex though.
 
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