People are worried about Project M dying, what do you think?

[Bleck]

We also know that Nintendo specifically told apex organizers and commentators they can't talk about pm on streams, or show it, or discuss any mods of sorts or allow people to play it there.

link please

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

We also know that Nintendo specifically told apex organizers and commentators they can't talk about pm on streams, or show it, or discuss any mods of sorts or allow people to play it there.

In the end, if you think it's not nintendo trying to cause issues then you're just in denial. No one at this stage can directly admit anything under NDA so don't expect someone to come out anytime soon unless they want to be in breach of whatever contracts they have, but the apex information did come out (i got it from some of the apex commentators directly)

If you still want to think that it's not Nintendo, then who is it? and why them?

Different situation. Nintendo can't talk about PM or be affiliated with it.

Hell if I know who it is, but I don't pretend to know who it is.

 

[Narpas_sword]

Hell if I know who it is, but I don't pretend to know who it is.

Exactly.

reminds me of this

 

[Redact]

link please

Don't have it in writing, but wife just got home from Australia where he stayed with me for a whole week.

It was something we discussed in person.

 

[Bleck]

Don't have it in writing

lol

 

[Grizzmeister]

So Nintendo is afraid of Project M and has been gagging people from talking about it at big events, huh. Now a lot of things are starting to make sense.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

So Nintendo is afraid of Project M and has been gagging people from talking about it at big events, huh. Now a lot of things are starting to make sense.

No.

It's the same reason you can't talk about it on Miiverse. They can't be affiliated with it at all.

 

[Redact]

lol

If you don't want to believe that's fine, but you'll be hard pressed to find people who have had actual dealings in Nintendo put stuff covered by NDA in writing. What sort of a source are you expecting before you believe it?

Nintendo aren't going to try to shut down PM anytime soon, but they sure as hell will remove it from any event they affiliate themselves with just like red ryu has been saying. They gain nothing by actually shutting it down, but removing it from events is simply risk prevention from them in terms of licensing/IP laws.

There's nothing to gain here from being apprehensive about believing that Nintendo will actively try to prevent the game at affiliated events. By understanding the threats out there to PM you can better understand how to avoid them and prolong the life of the game and promote it. Rather than kick up a stink about PM not being at XYZ event or putting in resources to having it at an event that is affiliated by Nintendo or could be, its much better to focus on promoting events that definitely won't have Nintendo involvement anytime soon and PM is guaranteed to get there.

 

[Ningildo]

Because blindly believing people on the internet is never a bad idea.

Like, you have a good point about not bringing too much attention to pm at nintendo sponsored events and instead focus on those that don't have nintendo sponsoring and do have pm, but I'd take proof over someone's word 99% of the time when someone posts reasons behind shady behavior like this, honestly.

 

[Bleck]

If you don't want to believe that's fine

do we have any proof that this is actually happening yet or is it still just a bunch of hysterical childish hearsay

do you even know what hearsay means

 

[Redact]

Becaus blindly believing people on the internet is never a bad idea.

Like, you have a good point about not bringing too much attention to pm at nintendo sponsored events and instead focus on those that don't have nintendo sponsoring and do have pm, but I'd take proof over someone's word 99% of the time when someone posts reasons behind shady behavior like this, honestly.

It makes sense that you guys think I'm shady and that's fine, but feel free to check out my own history in terms of relevance to the smash scene in Australia/Internationally as well as how much I can be trusted.

But again I bring up the question, what proof do you expect when everyone is under NDA these days with Nintendo? I've dealt with Nintendo directly in the lead up to BAM7 and an NDA was discussed but seeing as Nintendo never followed through on BAM7 no NDA has been signed with them. With the fact no NDA was signed by myself I can't tell you exactly what is on their NDA agreements or what gets covered, but the fact they had to bring up an NDA where as not a single other sponsor even talked about one (including Warner Bros who we got huge support from) makes you think about what they would need covered by an NDA compared to every other sponsor.

I understand what hearsay is, but my discussions about PM with relevant big names have not been recorded so all you have is my word at this stage.

 

[Grizzmeister]

We should all ban together and hold the biggest Project M tournament the world has ever seen. That would teach Nintendo a valuable lesson about ignoring the will of the people.

I'm now going to make it my life's mission to promote Project M on every Internet forum I write on. I'll continue until Nintendo relents and stops trying to squash Project M.

 

[Bleck]

I understand what heresay is

buddy you didn't even spell it right

 

[robosteven]

bleck did you just quote yourself

 

[Bleck]

I... I don't know how that happened

 

[Redact]

buddy you didn't even spell it right

I'm up for an actual discussion at any point, feel free to debate my actual points rather than my spelling.

Not trying to be snide here, just productive

 

[MLGF]

Don't worry, it's just Bleck being Bleck.

 

[Bleck]

I'm up for an actual discussion at any point, feel free to debate my actual points rather than my spelling.

your "actual points" basically boil down to "what I'm saying is hearsay but it doesn't matter 'cause I'm special and important"

 

[robosteven]

Not trying to be snide here, just productive

Replying to this thread at all is by default unproductive.

Anyone answering the title question with anything other than "PM won't die as long as we keep playing it" is silly.

 

[MegaMissingno]

assuming there has to be a reason is not the same as assuming what that reason is

I know people are trying to make it seem like PM's current decline is because of tourney streams or some bull**** but no I'm pretty sure it's just that PM's userbase was always split between people who wanted Melee Again and people who wanted a new Smash game - the former group is just gonna go back to Melee if PM tourneys die off and the latter group is gonna move on to Smash 4

Do you not see the irony here? You just tried to claim you knew that the reason is because PM is too much like Melee.

Look, we may not have direct proof that this is coming straight from Nintendo, but we do know external pressure is coming from somewhere, and all signs suggest Nintendo is the most likely suspect. We know they talked to Apex. We also know they talked to the Invitational participants (can't find the source on this one, but I remember Peachyhime said she's not allowed to play PM until the event is over). Is it that big of a stretch to guess that they probably talked to Twitch too?

I may not be able to prove with 100% certainty that it's definitely Nintendo for a fact. But based on all the other signs implicating them, I'm like 95% sure it most likely is.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'm up for an actual discussion at any point, feel free to debate my actual points rather than my spelling.

Not trying to be snide here, just productive

The problem is a lot of it is hearsay.

Even the parts like, "couldn't mention PM" is more so they can't be affiliated with it.

It's not proof of them pulling the plug on twitch.

Do you not see the irony here? You just tried to claim you knew that the reason is because PM is too much like Melee.

Look, we may not have direct proof that this is coming straight from Nintendo, but we do know external pressure is coming from somewhere, and all signs suggest Nintendo is the most likely suspect. We know they talked to Apex. We also know they talked to the Invitational participants (can't find the source on this one, but I remember Peachyhime said she's not allowed to play PM until the event is over). Is it that big of a stretch to guess that they probably talked to Twitch too?

I may not be able to prove with 100% certainty that it's definitely Nintendo for a fact. But based on all the other signs implicating them, I'm like 95% sure it most likely is.

They were sponsoring APEX, of course they talked about it. PM can't be affiliated with them, which goes to Hime thing.

She was reping them at the invitational, that's why her pm comment on Twitter and her playing it weren't allowed.

You at jumping the gun on situations that has a clear answer, they can't rep it at all.

 

[Bleck]

Do you not see the irony here? You just tried to claim you knew that the reason is because PM is too much like Melee.

my statements there were about the overall decline in popularity of PM in recent times, not specifically about why it's supposedly banned or suppressed or whatever

I've said before that I think it's the players' responsibility to support their community, as opposed to the distressingly common view that "TOs" and "sponsors" are responsible for tournaments and etc., but I also feel like it's the PMDT's job to make sure that, assuming they want their mod to survive, it has something that people can't get anywhere else (i.e "Melee fans" have Melee already, and "Smash fans" have Smash 4)

 

[FireBall Stars]

We already know Nintendo doesn't want to be associated with PM because it is copyright infringement, their policy also does not endorse reverse engineering their products due to piracy, it's also a game that involves IPs from third-parties. So not allowing PM on events they are partnered with is a no-brainer.

We also already know that Nintendo is a company that values control, being a family-friendly company they want to control everything related to their business, so having people who are actively representing them and are associated under a NDA contract in an event, or stream is also a no-brainer. If you have dealings with Nintendo, you won't be talking about PM or acknowledging its existence. So far, nothing we know has gotten us over that, what we already know and already knew for more than a year.

Do we know that Nintendo is hunting PM or just protecting themselves like they've been doing before? We don't have evidence strong enough to support such a change of stance. Nintendo has approached the tournaments clearly as a way to promote the newest Smash Bros. and the Wii U, so far I have no reasons to believe that they did so for another reason. That because marketing people at NoA are actually good at what they do despite decisions from japan and that's how marketing works, it's opportunistic by nature.

Reaching a conclusion that Nintendo is actively trying to make PM less popular for whatever reason when they have only publicly shown to not want association with it for obvious reasons is jumping to conclusions. And honestly, I'd not be surprised if twitch or any other common tournament sponsors jumped to those conclusions as well due to the sudden approach the did recently as we have no way to know if they were threatheaned in any way, it wouldn't be the first time noise has affected so many people due to the internet, and wouldn't be the last.

I can probably turn all this communication noise into a Masters thesis for myself, it's a very interesting case.

 

[wiiztec]

We also know that Nintendo specifically told apex organizers and commentators they can't talk about pm on streams, or show it, or discuss any mods of sorts or allow people to play it there.

In the end, if you think it's not nintendo trying to cause issues then you're just in denial. No one at this stage can directly admit anything under NDA so don't expect someone to come out anytime soon unless they want to be in breach of whatever contracts they have, but the apex information did come out (i got it from some of the apex commentators directly)

If you still want to think that it's not Nintendo, then who is it? and why them?

Nobody shut them down

my statements there were about the overall decline in popularity of PM in recent times, not specifically about why it's supposedly banned or suppressed or whatever

I've said before that I think it's the players' responsibility to support their community, as opposed to the distressingly common view that "TOs" and "sponsors" are responsible for tournaments and etc., but I also feel like it's the PMDT's job to make sure that, assuming they want their mod to survive, it has something that people can't get anywhere else (i.e "Melee fans" have Melee already, and "Smash fans" have Smash 4)

Players are not the people who make tournaments happen unless they are also TO's/sponsors

 

[Grizzmeister]

How much money would a Kickstarter campaign need to generate to hold a respectable Project M tournament? Would $10,000 be enough?

I live in the Raleigh, NC area and I think this is the ideal location to hold a major Project M event as we could probably get notable participants from the entire eastern seaboard. Thoughts?

 

[Foo]

How much money would a Kickstarter campaign need to generate to hold a respectable Project M tournament? Would $10,000 be enough?

I live in the Raleigh, NC area and I think this is the ideal location to hold a major Project M event as we could probably get notable participants from the entire eastern seaboard. Thoughts?

There is a big one in raleigh in like two weeks...

 

[Grizzmeister]

There is a big one in raleigh in like two weeks...

A big Project M tourney in Raleigh, where at?

 

[Foo]

http://smashboards.com/threads/jun-...e-13th-14th-smash-4-and-pm-raleigh-nc.404262/

 

[Shellfire]

snip

First of all, attempting to "teach Nintendo a lesson" is a bad idea for countless reasons.

Second, if PM has an event on the scale you're suggesting, I'm pretty sure that would put Nintendo in a position where they have to choose between losing their copyrights and sending a Cease and Desist to the PMDT, shutting it down for good. Most copyright laws do not allow you to pick and choose when you enforce your own copyrights, you either indiscriminately protect them or you lose them. Nintendo is really pushing it by playing dumb about Project M in the first place. Theoretically some asshole could come along and totally rip of SSB, sell it, then point to the fact that Nintendo didn't do anything about PM in the inevitable lawsuit.

 

[LIVERPOOP]

it sucks how nintendo have shunned PM to the side, but as long as the people don't let it die, it wont. it doesn't have to go all mainstream and corporate and sponsored, guys.

 

[MegaMissingno]

I certainly don't want corporate. I just want majors.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Seems like kickstarter and patreon are the answers.

 

[Grizzmeister]

The Project M dev team needs to produce their own Smash Bros. clone so we no longer have to deal with Nintendo's nonsense. Since I'm kinda an artist I can help with character design. Here's one of my sketches.