Peach vs. Marth

[LumpyCPU...]

it starts out with fox being easy for peach and marth being hard
then as the level of competition gets higher, i noticed that start to reverse...

now marths are pie compared to a fox of the same skill level

BTW this is all IMO

 

[XLII]

It might just be that i'm at a low level, but i don't tend to have much trouble with my friend who plays a fox, he's easy to ledge-guard, tends to be pretty easy to combo, and the main problem i have is getting down from the u-throw u-air combo, but that's about mind games. It even seems that peach was used to counter both ken's and chillin's fox during the fc3 crew battle

 

[KirbyKaze]

at high levels it becomes brutal. low level foxes are easy because they mess up and you can get 30 damage d-smashes, grabs, etc. at high level they avoid those things, so it becomes harder, especially when they don't miss l-cancel and shoot you a lot.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

yeah.
a sloppy fox can be punished for everything.
a good fox won't get caught with anything.

drillshine to wave shine to usmash or to uthrow uair.
there's pretty much nothing you can do about that.
and if they space bairs, they're not gonna get dsmashed or grabbed.
i say the only advantage peach has on a good fox is CGing and edge guarding.

 

[cba]

how is peach vs falcon?

 

[exarch]

Even.

--------
Marth vs Peach is obviously different depending on the stage. IMO Marth's best stage in the match is FD where he brutalizes peach, whereas peach vs marth on dreamland I think is slightly in peach's favor.

Pkstm and BF are also very good for peach; lets be honest if you're getting tippered on platforms you're doing something very wrong. Also the platforms force Marth above peach when he gets dash attacked, so you can get followups which aren't available on FD on these levels if you do it right. Fod is better for peach than YS, but neither are where I want to be vs marth.

Also all out ******** aggression in the way to go. It's difficult to manage at first, but slowly you learn when and where you can get inside. As long as you keep up the continual pressure, you'll be able to get inside eventually. But then again I've been experimenting with being completely aggressive with all characters I play, so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Europhoria]

Yeah Marth ***** Peach on FD. Peach needs teh platformz

 

[cba]

yea but i like fd and actually do considerably good in it, where i really get ***** is in BF because of marths u-tilt

 

[LumpyCPU...]

Even.

--------
Marth vs Peach is obviously different depending on the stage. IMO Marth's best stage in the match is FD where he brutalizes peach, whereas peach vs marth on dreamland I think is slightly in peach's favor.

Pkstm and BF are also very good for peach; lets be honest if you're getting tippered on platforms you're doing something very wrong. Also the platforms force Marth above peach when he gets dash attacked, so you can get followups which aren't available on FD on these levels if you do it right. Fod is better for peach than YS, but neither are where I want to be vs marth.

Also all out ******** aggression in the way to go. It's difficult to manage at first, but slowly you learn when and where you can get inside. As long as you keep up the continual pressure, you'll be able to get inside eventually. But then again I've been experimenting with being completely aggressive with all characters I play, so take it with a grain of salt.

um...
i personally do really well on FD due to turnip control.
you camp the balls out of marth and let him fail at approaching and dash attack to punish it.
and edge guarding marth ain't too hard with peach IMO.

but other than FD, big stages are bad for peach in this match up, because as you said, the pressure game is your best bet. keeping the aggression consistent is easier on small stages.

and the whole "peach lives for ever on dreamland" thing doesn't really apply because it takes a sloppy marth to let peach back once she's off the edge (unless she's ridiculously high in the air, which means you probably have a turdload of percent anyhow)...

i think FD and FoD are the best options for peach.

this is all IMO and i'm sure i'm not as experienced as you, so feel free to educate me on the matter.


edit: i know this is a long post but i think i read "how is peach vs falcon"

peach has to be careful not to get combo'd cuz she's floaty and we all know what falcon does to floaties. i think her advantage vs falcon is edge guarding. his upB isn't too great and he doesn't have many recovery tricks. running and Dsmashing with the occasional CG to dash attack to CG to Fthrow or Fair is the smartest (and gayest) way to play against falcon.

 

[SirNegroJuice]

How do platforms help Peach? I thought they were just more **** that Marth can stick the tip of his **** through.

 

[KirbyKaze]

fd is terrible for peach in general lol.

while it is true that you can turnip camp and potentially run away with a win, then marth spaces fair against your shield because he's not an idiot and slowly pushes you to the edge with nairs and fairs that you can't punish. and then you realize you really can't turnip camp there because there's nowhere to hide from him; you can't go under a platform to pluck one, or anything that could disrupt his fair/nair spacing and then that's a problem now isn't it?

and then the massive bigness of fd kicks in and peachs' blistering sped comes back to haunt her. and when you eliminate any semblance of tech chasing she has, and her places to run to, we have a winner. it's marth.

 

[exarch]

Kaze's got the right idea.

turnip camping becomes relatively ineffective, and though you can dash attack marth, you can't kill a well spaced marth on FD until after he kills you %age-wise. Dash attack and turnips will not kill marth, and those about the only moves you will be hitting a good marth with on this stage.

And excepting the turnip drop trick, i've come across very few consistent ways to edgeguard marth.
Good news is peach should be able to recover against marth, she's got more than enough options of recovery to bait out his idea and move past it.

Platforms are peach's friend because without them she never gets any follow ups to any move (except an approaching turnip -> aerial (which should get naired through anyways), and dash attack to dash attack at low %'s). On platforms you can dash attack marth jump up to the platform and dsmash his tech, or uair through it, as well as other options. Peach can also wrap around platforms with DJC to catch marth off guard. Plus she can use them as different ways of getting back to the ground, whereas on FD you have to hope you airdodge his uair AND land back on the ground before he can grab or utilt you. If you're getting tippered through platforms, stop landing on them above marth... Tippers from platforms shouldn't kill peach until she's at a high enough percent to where she doesn't have to tech or can pick the platform she's going to land on. Seriously, just jump when you land on a platform.

It IS counterintuitive. You would think FD would be good for peach, but it's not. Against Marth anyways. But go with what works for you, this is just what I observe at the highest levels of play. As well as my own experience (which isn't that far off from the highest levels of play if i'm flattering myself.)
Also I observe Marth dominating EVERYONE on FD. Except CF.
It's great for peach against other characters though.

-----------------------
Try to smash DI out of CF's nair combos.

 

[SirNegroJuice]

Plus she can use them as different ways of getting back to the ground, whereas on FD you have to hope you airdodge his uair AND land back on the ground before he can grab or utilt you. If you're getting tippered through platforms, stop landing on them above marth... Tippers from platforms shouldn't kill peach until she's at a high enough percent to where she doesn't have to tech or can pick the platform she's going to land on. Seriously, just jump when you land on a platform.

I've never had any more luck with recovering on a stage with platforms than with FD because platform or not, the Marth is still under me. Is the Isai-drop needed for all this platform ownage you speak of?

I'd still say FD is better that Yoshi's Story, unless you're really good at following up attacks.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

i guess FD is just me then lol
but as far as yoshi's story goes, it's the scariest for me but it allows me to play a pretty solid pressure game.
you can follow up almost anything with these plats so close together.
i still say that if a marth and peach of equal high level skills did a set, the marth would win.
but in my experience, (not much), i usually know that match up more than the marth does.
but again, i prolly only play on really low levels of play. where pressure is what beats marth.

 

[slikvik]

this match-up is impossible at high-level play unless the marth makes dumb mistakes

 

[DoH]

fd is ****ing amazing

 

[XIF]

fd is ****ing amazing

indeed

I dont get the rest of you guys o_O?

did you forget that peach has like nothing to beat marth's f smash or up tilt from above? Getting on platforms against marth is disastrous

Your best bet is to bait certain attacks and punish with quick FC aerials or dash attack.

turnips rule.

 

[t3h stock slayer]

yeah, i agree, im not saying fd is peach's best counterpick for marth, but its not like she has much of a better chance anywhere she goes, and i'de rather be on fd then ys/bf/dl/fod.
actually i like FoD for everyone for some stupid reason. but still,

Platforms help, but in terms of plucking turnips against marth its hard just about anywhere if theyre smart and have good spacing. The little bit of extra time to pluck a turnip wich often isnt enough either way, really isnt worth getting tippered imo.

I honestly think if you play the match well fd is a good pick, maybe not your best choice but i cant say it helps or makes the situation any worse. Its a brutal match up no matter where you go. its up to how you can play and handle marth. =[

 

[slikvik]

for me, battlefield gets me the best results against marth out of all the neutrals(dreamland is always banned)

edit: FD is death trap...play cactuar or m2k or any other **** marth there. if your in the air, you won't be able to land anywhere without being punished. platforms are actually helpful

 

[cba]

indeed

I dont get the rest of you guys o_O?

did you forget that peach has like nothing to beat marth's f smash or up tilt from above? Getting on platforms against marth is disastrous

Your best bet is to bait certain attacks and punish with quick FC aerials or dash attack.

turnips rule.

yea. FD is slightly better for her in my oppinion. and BF/YS are too bad 4 her, i mean DAM.N u/f-tilts, they are freaking annoying. bottom line 4 me is ive nev3r been afraid of marth.

 

[XIF]

for me, battlefield gets me the best results against marth out of all the neutrals(dreamland is always banned)

edit: FD is death trap...play cactuar or m2k or any other **** marth there. if your in the air, you won't be able to land anywhere without being punished. platforms are actually helpful

I have... and not saying that I had much success, but platforms give you an even bigger death trap. You land on a platform and you are reset to your neutral position at a location where none of your moves can go through marth's u tilt, u air, or f smash. You seriously have to fight just to be back on level ground. At least on final D you land and your neutral position is reset to a place where you stand a chance.

 

[t3h stock slayer]

for me, battlefield gets me the best results against marth out of all the neutrals(dreamland is always banned)

edit: FD is death trap...play cactuar or m2k or any other **** marth there. if your in the air, you won't be able to land anywhere without being punished. platforms are actually helpful

well if your gonna use cactus and m2k as examples its pretty safe to say regardless of platforms, unless you good and know how to play marth, you're gonna find it hard landing anywhere PERIOD.

I'm not saying the platforms arent useful, but its not gonna give you much of an edge.
it just comes down to how you play, and where you play best.

edit: **** marth

 

[hoopspr226]

I find spot dodging fairly useful with peach against Marth (and in general). It seems like it's often better than shielding especially when it comes to punishing opponents who try to approach with grabs and dash attacks, or don't space their smashes properly. Is spot dodging only good at lower levels of play, or is it used frequently by most pros? I know Armada tends to use it a bunch, but I think I've seen Cort refer to it as a bad habit?

 

[Ðesh•]

(this is t3h stock slayer)

Possible answers? :
theres actually a lot you can do oos.

peach has the best sheild release recovery time, along with jiggs and zelda with 14 frames
and peach is only invincible for 17/27 frames of her side step.

trfhvmrfhmlmr4f crap. i was going somewhere with that but it took me too long to find it in my word doc. -.-

anyways, theres a lot of options for things oos, its generally quicker because there are less frames of lag for oos moves then doing them after a spot dodge. (iirc, but im too lazy to check now -.- )
Also, you may be completely invincible for the 17/27 frames of your spot dodge, but at higher lvls of play spot dodge patterns can be picked up quickly and you can be read, and punished appropriately for it.
sheild grab'ing is also a plus to sheilding.

Up b oos is god send against stupid sheild pressuring turkeys. (or any character really)
same goes for oos nairs.

lol thats my take on it o_o
if i can remember where i was going with the frame data i'll post it.

and my posts are most likely less...correct? than other people.

to sum it up i think its because spot dodging patterns are a bad habit to pick up, and at a higher lvl of play, theyre quickly picked up and punished.

where as when you're in your sheild you can do a bit more defensively.
oos nair/up b
grab
light sheild to space
roll
wd oos

someone correct me if im wrong. and im not surprised if i am.

 

[slikvik]

I have... and not saying that I had much success, but platforms give you an even bigger death trap. You land on a platform and you are reset to your neutral position at a location where none of your moves can go through marth's u tilt, u air, or f smash. You seriously have to fight just to be back on level ground. At least on final D you land and your neutral position is reset to a place where you stand a chance.

well if your gonna use cactus and m2k as examples its pretty safe to say regardless of platforms, unless you good and know how to play marth, you're gonna find it hard landing anywhere PERIOD.

I'm not saying the platforms arent useful, but its not gonna give you much of an edge.
it just comes down to how you play, and where you play best.

edit: **** marth

true. I'm just claiming that once you get hit out out your float, and you're above marth in the air, your stock is pretty much done against a competent marth unless he makes massive mistakes. a platform may be a death trap, but sometimes its the difference between life or death. either way, **** marth, even though its my most experienced match-up and i've beaten some extremely good marths

Xif: lol I see we're both fans of aarosmashguy

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

I find spot dodging fairly useful with peach against Marth (and in general). It seems like it's often better than shielding especially when it comes to punishing opponents who try to approach with grabs and dash attacks, or don't space their smashes properly. Is spot dodging only good at lower levels of play, or is it used frequently by most pros? I know Armada tends to use it a bunch, but I think I've seen Cort refer to it as a bad habit?

If you're predictable about your spotdodging, like with anything, it's a bad habit. Or if you use it in situations where it doesnt apply. (I'm guessing that's what cort meant, correct me if im wrong)
Also, remember that there are situations where spot-dodging can be good but some players won't spot dodge anyway, b/c maybe shielding and WDing out of the shield would be just as good in that situation and that player prefered to do that.

There are high level players who spot dodge alot (like drephen, and many samus players), so you can't take it for granted that it's bad. Just do what works and what you're comfortable with, imo. Just don't get predictable with it.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

i find myself dashing back before every approach.
i find myself using turnips, fc'd nairs, and dash attacks more than Dsmash.
and i definately find myself loving FD for this match up.
without plats, you are always on marth's level.
(being above marth is like being under battlefield IMO)

 

[Ðesh•]

I lol'd at the battle field comment. its going in my sig >_>
and i agree with you 100% lol.
and theres nothing wrong really with using fc nairs and dash attack more than dsmash O_o, as long as you're using each of them at the right time.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

(being above marth is like being under battlefield IMO)

LOL that's pretty hilarious

 

[Ðesh•]

i concur lol.

 

[Pink Shinobi]

marth has a big sword. Don't let the sword hit you. Thats his weakness! ^_^

 

[t3h stock slayer]

best solution evar!

 

[KirbyKaze]

why not just pluck a beamsword and then challenge his swordsman skillz with your better skillz

 

[KosukeKGA]

Is it actually better to use the Beam Sword or should you just throw it away ASAP?

 

[LumpyCPU...]

marth has a big sword. Don't let the sword hit you. Thats his weakness! ^_^

haha nice. your advice always makes it sound like your playing dumb and just being silly.
if i saw this post and didn't know you, i would think you were hella noob hahaha

Is it actually better to use the Beam Sword or should you just throw it away ASAP?

i always throw away beams, mr. saturns, stitch's and bobombs...
but that's because i suck.

 

[DoH]

**** it just go sheik

 

[LumpyCPU...]

haha yeah... that seems to be the unanimous solution

maybe i only have faith in peach because i don't play on a high enough level.

 

[kirbstir]

I must be weird for liking FoD, YS, and Battlefield vs Marth

 

[jiggz kirbz]

I actually find peach hard to beat.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

i'm scared of peach. honestly.
i can't beat peach with anybody but peach.
which sucks because i agree with the masses on the whole "peach dittos are gay" thing.

my secondaries aren't good enough to beat peach lol
(maybe fox now)