Peach vs. Marth

[hoopspr226]

I realize there is another peach vs. marth matchup thread but that one is ancient and outdated. I want to know what the consensus is on this matchup. It seems like Marth definitely has an advantage, but how much of an advantage is it? 40-60? 30-70? 20-80?

Also, what are key tactics and strategies to keep in mind in this matchup? Is wavedashing useful? Also, what is the best way to punish Marth's fsmashes? It seems like even when I shield his fsmash, peach is too slow to punish Marth very well.

 

[SirNegroJuice]

Marth has a slight advantage. Probably something like 60-40 in his favor.

I've heard DI is really important. DI away from his f-throw so you don't get tipped. DI away from his f-air so you can escape from more f-airs, but I'm guessing DI up from his tipped f-air if you're near the edge so you don't get d-aired. Maybe DI down from his f-smash. Anyone know how to DI his other moves?

When Marth f-smashes your shield, you can float out of you shield and then attack him with a float-canceled aerial. If you're quick enough, you may be able to wavedash out of your shield and dash attack/grab him.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

you may be able to wavedash out of your shield and dash attack/grab him.

do you mean dash attack or grab him?
or that thing where you cancel a dash attack with a grab for more reach?
cuz i didn't think that was too great with peach...
if it's the first one, ignore me... i'm dumb...

 

[SirNegroJuice]

lol that would be a dash canceled grab. No I meant dash attack or grab, although you could try a dash canceled grab on him but I don't think it'll help much.

This stuff is best to do when he f-smashes your shield at close range. If the tip of his blade hits your shield and you don't think you can get to him in less than one second, then you might be better off rolling away and pulling out a turnip. Or, you could actually try rolling towards him and d-smashing. Peach's d-smash is good even if hits their shield since it still makes them slide out of shield grab range [hopefully - not always with Marth] and can poke through a weak shield.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

yeah...
i'm pretty confident against marths with peach...
i was just wondering if the dash canceled grab is anygood with peach...
cuz i only use it with marth sheik and spacies...

 

[Me14k]

Marth counters peach.

70-30

Get marth off the edge and then grab the edge, punish marth's upb lag.

Dont spam dsmash-you will get punished.

Dash attack--hit with the frames that push the other person forward, not up.
**Dash attack goes thru marth's fair.**

Don't turnip camp, but for sure throw some.

And finally, use the search feature. This matchup is constantly talked about. The last thread wasn't outdated. I remember posting on it a couple weeks ago.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

Marth counters peach.

70-30

60-40 in marths favor...
i am right...
i promise hahaha

 

[Me14k]

60-40 in marths favor...
i am right...
i promise hahaha

are you saying that based on phanna's inaccurate chart or based on years of tourney experience?

Phanna's chart says 60-40, yes..but that is very inaccurate.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

are you saying that based on phanna's inaccurate chart or based on years of tourney experience?

Phanna's chart says 60-40, yes..but that is very inaccurate.

i've never seen Phanna's chart haha
but i think that because marth is like my best match up so i refuse to accept that it's any more than 60-40 haha

 

[Me14k]

I was trying to find the Thread, but I can't find it.

--the marth player probably isn't too great.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

haha thanks...
i see you assume i suck haha
well i do...
but that's not the point haha

i didn't mean one player, i just meant marths in general...
a technical fox is way harder to deal with for me...

 

[SirNegroJuice]

Yeah, one Marth isn't much to base a decision on. I do okay against all the Marths I play against, but I know I don't DI properly. So if Peach does DI properly, then it would make plain sense to me that the match would be at worst 60-40 in Marth's favor.

Like any piece of work that provides a general consensus of something so huge, Phanna's chart has some flaws. I just happen to believe it's correct on 60(Marth)-40(Peach).

 

[Me14k]

haha thanks...
i see you assume i suck haha
well i do...
but that's not the point haha

i didn't mean one player, i just meant marths in general...
a technical fox is way harder to deal with for me...

Technical means jack.

The best way for a fox to play vs a peach is by camping and spamming grab to uair and waveshine to usmash.

Just don't get grabbed and dont get daired (leads to shine). How?
a grabby fox= stay in float and be cautious. Try to predict the fox and dsmash.
a waveshine fox=shield the dair, you can shield grab fox before the shine (even with l cancel), just time your grab. It is real tight squeeze...after you grab just chaingrab, dthrow to tech chase dsmash or throw off edge and edge guard.

also..dash attack leads to grab at low/mid percents. at mid/high percents it also leads to a nair/fair.

 

[SirNegroJuice]

Technical means jack.

The best way for a fox to play vs a peach is by camping and spamming grab to uair and waveshine to usmash.

Just don't get grabbed and dont get daired (leads to shine). How?
a grabby fox= stay in float and be cautious. Try to predict the fox and dsmash.
a waveshine fox=shield the dair, you can shield grab fox before the shine (even with l cancel), just time your grab. It is real tight squeeze...after you grab just chaingrab, dthrow to tech chase dsmash or throw off edge and edge guard.

also..dash attack leads to grab at low/mid percents. at mid/high percents it also leads to a nair/fair.

Technical does mean jack. You know how you said you can shield-grab an l-canceled d-air? That's only if they hit the top of your shield. A technical Fox can hit the middle. A techy Fox also doesn't need to be grab-happy because he has the luxury of being able to consistently SHFFL l-canceled aerials over your d-smash and onto your shield (which you can't shield-grab if he hits the middle). Your dash attack and n-air can match his SHFFLed aerials in priority, but you have to know when they're coming.

In addition to that annoyingly fast and potentially deadly approach, a techy Fox can also short hop double laser when he does decide to camp, waveshine the **** out of you, connect u-airs out of an up-throw even if you manage to DI it, and simply force you to make decisions at a faster pace than you are comfortable with.

And don't d-throw Fox. There's like no situation where that's better than a u-throw, unless maybe he has a huge percent.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

Technical means jack.

The best way for a fox to play vs a peach is by camping and spamming grab to uair and waveshine to usmash.

Just don't get grabbed and dont get daired (leads to shine). How?
a grabby fox= stay in float and be cautious. Try to predict the fox and dsmash.
a waveshine fox=shield the dair, you can shield grab fox before the shine (even with l cancel), just time your grab. It is real tight squeeze...after you grab just chaingrab, dthrow to tech chase dsmash or throw off edge and edge guard.

also..dash attack leads to grab at low/mid percents. at mid/high percents it also leads to a nair/fair.

you sound ignorant and smart at the same time...
(that makes me sound ignorant haha)
but i just meant any decent fox is tough for me...
dair to waveshine to upsmash
or uthrow uairs...

i've completely given up on trying to shield grab fox...
tooooooo hard for me...
i'm better off trying to shield the dair and the shine then RUUUUUUUN
and i actually think that fast fc'd nairs and dairs help against fox more than dsmash...
maybe i'm just ********... idk...

 

[Me14k]

Technical does mean jack. You know how you said you can shield-grab an l-canceled d-air? That's only if they hit the top of your shield. A technical Fox can hit the middle. A techy Fox also doesn't need to be grab-happy because he has the luxury of being able to consistently SHFFL l-canceled aerials over your d-smash and onto your shield (which you can't shield-grab if he hits the middle). Your dash attack and n-air can match his SHFFLed aerials in priority, but you have to know when they're coming.

In addition to that annoyingly fast and potentially deadly approach, a techy Fox can also short hop double laser when he does decide to camp, waveshine the **** out of you, connect u-airs out of an up-throw even if you manage to DI it, and simply force you to make decisions at a faster pace than you are comfortable with.

And don't d-throw Fox. There's like no situation where that's better than a u-throw, unless maybe he has a huge percent.

you have a point. Light shielding helps against dair at front of shield...but you wont get shield grab. At same time, you should watch where the dair hits on your shield, to see if you can get the grab.

D throw a fox when you are in the middle of a level, and up throw would put the fox on the above platform (yoshi's story)...if fox techs, he is unpunishable because with peach's second jump, peach can't get up to that platform.

Dthrow isn't bad against fox, it is quite useful, but I agree--upthrow is often much better.

you sound ignorant and smart at the same time...
(that makes me sound ignorant haha)
but i just meant any decent fox is tough for me...
dair to waveshine to upsmash
or uthrow uairs...

i've completely given up on trying to shield grab fox...
tooooooo hard for me...
i'm better off trying to shield the dair and the shine then RUUUUUUUN
and i actually think that fast fc'd nairs and dairs help against fox more than dsmash...
maybe i'm just ********... idk...

you aren't ********, fox is a hard matchup..you just need practice. working the dsmash is a must here. If you hit with it it is 15-40+%. I like insta-float bair to dsmash at lower percents.

 

[SirNegroJuice]

Shielding both the aerial and shine and then rolling outta there works fine. Make him work for nothing. Float canceled aerials are much better for approach then the d-smash. Don't use d-smash for approach unless you think he's going for a shield-grab (which many smart Foxes will do since Peach uses her dash attack often).

U-throw is almost alway better than d-throw, middle of the stage or not. If you d-throw him he'll just DI away/tech and it's too hard to punish that.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

i know to work in the dsmash but i usually only get them in after up throws or after fc'd bairs...
over all the most effective moves for me to use are fc'd nairs dairs and bairs...

 

[DeadlyTurnip]

Who cares either way.

The matchup is in Marth's favor. I would say 70-60-ish IMO.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

maybe it's harder than i thought...
but who cares...
if you really care about match ups, you should just pick up sheik...
just gimp the spacies and don't play against ic's... that makes sheik the smart choice...
why am i even talking about this?
good question, lumpy...

 

[darkatma]

actually i hate playing sheik against spacies.
I go peach for that sometimes.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

actually i hate playing sheik against spacies.
I go peach for that sometimes.

yeah...
i think spacies and ic's are tough for sheik...
but not many others are...
maybe a good falcon...
idk...
i just stick with peach for every match up right now...
my secondairies are no where near as good as my peach...
and she's still getting better...

 

[SirNegroJuice]

i know to work in the dsmash but i usually only get them in after up throws or after fc'd bairs...
over all the most effective moves for me to use are fc'd nairs dairs and bairs...

D-smash is most commonly used when you're already close to them, such as after a dash attack. I was just pointing out that that is one of the very few situations in which you approach Fox with a d-smash. And in that particular situation, a grab or a float-canceled aerial would probably be better anyway.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

i'm garbage anyway so don't listen to me haha
really...
i'm pure rubbish compared to anyone good...

 

[Rain(ame)]

Um, well, let's see, you're right about it's all about how you play the Fox. It's still a hard matchup for Peach. As far as Marth is concerned, it's one of my worst matchups....but not as bad as Samus. Now THAT is a bad matchup for me. There are Peach players that LOVE the Peach-Marth matchup. Like VaNz and Wife. However, it is a bit in Marth's Favor. I'd say 65-35. (Yes, I'm compromising) The DI is important, but it's also your spacing. If a Peach can't space properly against a Marth, she's screwed. The other problem involves the Edgeguarding....if a Peach can't edgeguard...she's screwed. Work those turnips, grab those edges, and for god sakes switch up your aerial timing. FC-aerials, DJC, and SHFFL. They all work amazingly.



"Crank that Roy"

 

[spyran356]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQJX3TEZx0I

 

[Plairnkk]

Marth ***** Peach. It's actually somewhere between 70-30 and 80-20 if the Marth player knows what he or she is doing. Click the link below to see high level play between Marth and Peach.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b_KiKWfHhQ

Cort has mentioned several times in this thread about the Marth and other top tiers vs Peach. You should visit that forum for more information.

 

[Europhoria]

Marth ***** Peach. It's actually somewhere between 70-30 and 80-20 if the Marth player knows what he or she is doing. Click the link below to see high level play between Marth and Peach.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b_KiKWfHhQ

Cort has mentioned several times in this thread about the Marth and other top tiers vs Peach. You should visit that forum for more information.

Wow you fail. >_>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBiz5hM1on8&feature=related

Same set, PC's Peach beats M2K's Marth. Give out whatever odds you want for the match up >_> I think it's around a 60/40 in favour of Marth. I main Marth and secondary Peach so I play this match up a lot from both ends.

 

[SirNegroJuice]

A single match doesn't prove much...
...on any side.

 

[Europhoria]

Of course it doesn't, that was the point of me posting the video X.X

 

[Deleted member]

marth ***** peach?!?

since when? it's not the most even but it's certainly not ****..

 

[Rain(ame)]

LOL, it's hard to say, but it IS in Marth's favor. Your average Peach isn't going to beat your average Marth. That's pretty much truth in itself.


"Crank that Roy"

 

[slikvik]

Wow you fail. >_>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBiz5hM1on8&feature=related

Same set, PC's Peach beats M2K's Marth. Give out whatever odds you want for the match up >_> I think it's around a 60/40 in favour of Marth. I main Marth and secondary Peach so I play this match up a lot from both ends.

m2k was playing really bad(for m2k anyway) that match and PC. Hell, he even messed up not doing a dair at 4:11 that would've won him the match. marth ***** peach at high level play....period. ask any top player and get back to me

 

[Europhoria]

Didn't M2K say something a while back about having an extremely close match vs. PC's peach at FCD as well? I think it might be on his blog >_> I forget

 

[brawlpro]

watch xif raep marth's.

 

[Plairnkk]

Marth ***** Peach. It's actually somewhere between 70-30 and 80-20 if the Marth player knows what he or she is doing. Click the link below to see high level play between Marth and Peach.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b_KiKWfHhQ

Cort has mentioned several times in this thread about the Marth and other top tiers vs Peach. You should visit that forum for more information.

I didn't post that, someone else was logged on my account, no idea who

 

[Rain(ame)]

marth ***** peach at high level play....period. ask any top player and get back to me

QFT

We had a discussion about that in one of the older threads. Situational matches DO happen. There are people that truly know the matchup and love it. HOWEVER, I think I said it, in general you don't see Peaches going around ****** marths with their own swords. (Though we all know Marth would love it, LOL)


"Crank That Roy"

 

[Winston]

m2k was playing really bad(for m2k anyway) that match and PC. Hell, he even messed up not doing a dair at 4:11 that would've won him the match. marth ***** peach at high level play....period. ask any top player and get back to me

Listen to this man (and Plank, who is certainly a high level player); Peach can't do jack **** to marth in high level play.

 

[Europhoria]

Match up favours Marth, but it's not ****. PC's peach is 1 example, Wife is another obvious one.
Peach vs. Fox is a match up where Peach can't do anything at high levels.

 

[Winston]

Match up favours Marth, but it's not ****. PC's peach is 1 example, Wife is another obvious one.
Peach vs. Fox is a match up where Peach can't do anything at high levels.

Pretty sure Wife being a marth slayer is circa 2004 stuff.

Btw, check out Cort vs. Shiz from FAST for Peach doing stuff vs fox.