Peach: Official Character Discussion

[Ulevo]

Discussion for Peach. Anyone can suggest anything for any of these topics, and it'll be noted. Popular suggestions/values will be marked as such. Final values will be determined by popularity, so voice your opinion!

Suggested Offensive Modifications:

Suggested Defensive Modifications:


Default Physics:
SH:
FH:
FF:
DGrav:
Grav:

Physics Changes:

Specific Move Fixes:


Anything else:

 

[goodoldganon]

She feels fine in Beta 4 / 3.4 (whatever we are calling it) The only change I'd suggest is allowing her to grab on backwards after the Up-B. My good friend who is a big Peach player thinks she plays fantastic.

 

[Ulevo]

So far, Niko K hasn't had any complaints about Brawl Peach, and often praises her in Brawl Plus. However, that's the only information I can provide on her personally.

 

[The Cape]

Reverse up and B grab I agree with.

More KB on F throw to facilitate kills comes to mind too.
Less KB or more damage to U throw as well?

 

[Almas]

I think Peach might benefit from a small increase to her fullhop/double jump height. As it is, she can just about ledgehop a nair such that the hitbox barely comes out. However, you're almost guaranteed a death if you mess it up, and the timing is very tight. Increasing the double jump power just a tiny bit would let her be able to pull this off more easily.

 

[goodoldganon]

I agree. We need to be careful since Peach is already almost impossible to edgeguard, but a buff to her double jump height would be lovely. Other than that I think she is fine with these changes:

-Grab backwards with Up-B
-SLIGHT double jump increase
-A little more knockback on the F-Throw

She combos well and builds damage fine so I don't think she needs to combo off the U-Throw.

 

[The Cape]

More KB on F throw and D smash? (to make it more safe, no whorenado)

 

[leafgreen386]

I could see slightly more base kb on the dsmash. Atm can't you get hit back if you connect with it at low percents?

 

[Foxy]

I agree with needing less KB on the uthrow, higher second jump, and backwards ledge grab.

 

[kupo15]

She can't grab backwards? Even when the parasol isn't out? Weird. Right now, you can't make the second jump higher without affecting the first jump. Dunno if its possible to affect only the double jump.

 

[Revven]

Actually, Peach can grab the ledge backwards, you just have to pull the umbrella down. ALSO, we seriously should fix her air dodge, it's the worse in the game.

http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?id=76944

Look at this ****, she is invulnerable for frames 4-19 and has 30 frames of lag versus MK who has 39 frames total...

Fix plz?

 

[CT Chia]

quote from me on the DDD thread since ti applies to peach with bombs:

what does everyone think about removing gordos (and also things like peach pulling bombs). if were aiming to make a more competitive game here, shouldnt remove random things like this that are completely unexpected that can completely change the flow of a game? ppl dont rely on gordos or bombs as is, but if it happens, it could be destructive for the opponent outta no where.

also lower the kb on stiches a lil bit

 

[Team Giza]

After playing and reading up on some of the responses from Peach players I can't say I see much excitement about Peach+. She might have gained a lot of combos but shes lost a lot of her edgeguarding game as well. I am not a good enough Peach player to know what kind of buffs she needs however I think we should try some brainstorming over this because she seems to be one of the characters that has been being ignored.

 

[Almas]

Peach is a great character at maintaining momentum once she gets it. Once an opponents starts getting put under pressure you can get some pretty nasty strings going on. I've found that instant float cancels are still really powerful and important. Glidetossing is kinda important for positional play.

Her biggest issue is easily a lack of killing power. She has Fair, Nair and USmash as her three main kill moves (excluding stitchface). Fair suffers from a laggy start and an annoying hitbox, and is relatively weak as kill moves go. Nair is even weaker but slightly easier to land. USmash can be unexpected, but requires either getting inside an opponent, and/or them being very tall - it's kinda hard to link to.

I can't say if she needs a buff: I haven't really played her too much and my friends tend to play characters who seem like they would counterpick her (a mixture characters who are camp well, are hard to gimp or survive freakishly long). However, if she did... I guess some from the following list:


- Increased Fair knockback
- Reduced Friction (better sliding approaches)
- Faster jumps (more Grav, more jump power, less DGrav)
- Slightly less knockback on early hits of DAir

Ionno though.

 

[kupo15]

I agree with increased fair kb and I would like to add more kb to the dsmash. Its pretty pathetic to be called a smash attack when it acts like a tilt at 100

 

[Foxy]

I've been playing a ton of Peach lately and I love her. The only changes I see her needing are:

- Increased fair knockback
- Faster jumps
- Huge knockback increase on the dsmash, would give her a great and unique kill option
- Remove the large knockback on the last dair hit to allow dair combos like dair > nair?

And, of course:

- Higher double jump (from lower grav)
- Backwards ledge grab from up-b

 

[RyokoYaksa]

I find Peach's sordid KB on Dsmash to be fine, mostly. More KB on it won't really help unless it's a TON more. I'd rather see it do modestly increased damage per hit. 6, 7, or a pattern of 6 and 7s so that scoring multiple hits with it is somewhat rewarding. I've always seen it as a damage/safety move, and I don't think it really needs to do more than that.

If there's one attack that I can see needing fixes, it's Toad. Peach falls very quickly when using this move from the air, making an offstage use suicidal. The spores can also be canceled by the very same attack that triggered it, so making them unclashable would be nice. It also doesn't put the target into hitlag when triggered, so they can wind up running through her before the spores hit. Dunno if there's a fix for that, but it's another annoyance.

Peach Bomber could maybe use more KBG. That would be a "great and unique" kill option which is obviously not an easy hit for the angle it sends.

Her Fsmash could use more KB in all forms. The tennis racket in particular has an oddity where it has a "strong" sweetspot that has knee-like intensity. Normally though it hits pretty weakly and could use some consistency in power, considering the Fsmash object itself is randomized.

I think Peach plays fine, even with her overall lack of kill power. The damage she can rack up from the start is so good it makes up for it.

 

[kupo15]

I think peach's dsmash could not be pathetic at 100%

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Peach's already has several non Smash attacks that hit hard enough. It's also safe on hit unless teched somehow early on. Peach's Dsmash in its current state is already useful enough, and superfluous changes to non-broken moves is something we should be straying away from.

The only thing I could possibly support is more KBG+damage on the first hit only.

 

[The Cape]

More damage gives more KBG as a whole and should be the easiest way to handle the move.

 

[The Cape]

Peach's dair

hb3
0C057828 00046033
05502800 00460000
FFFFFFFF

hb4
0C057828 0004611E
05502800 00460000
FFFFFFFF

Peach's fair
hb1
0C0F443C 0016911E
0F503C00 01690000
FFFFFFFF

Peach's downsmash
hb1
0C055026 0209102F
07503202 00910000
FFFFFFFF





(120 to 80 growth dair last two hitboxes)

(Fair 80 growth from 68)

(Downsmash 50 base from 38 and 7 damage from 5)

All changes are extremely solid. D smash is safe on hit (knocks down to a tech and didnt kill DDD fully charged at 150, barely knocked him off the stage). Fair KOs more readily and is extremely solid, dair is alost more combo friendly.

I wanted to try Peach bomber having a reverse angle so you could DI back and parasol, uair, or U tilt or whatever, but thats in the category of too much playing around

Ledge grab backwards on parasol is a must, and I would really like to see her closed umbrella landing have about half the lag it has now (if not less).

 

[leafgreen386]

Awesome changes. Except for one thing... that fair that you said "is extremely solid" is the original vbrawl fair.

Peach's fair
hb1
0C0F443C 0016911E
0F443C00 01690000
FFFFFFFF

You didn't change a thing.

 

[The Cape]

Fixed now >.>

I cant believe I forgot that. D smash and dair are awesome though.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Are we sure about increasing Fair KB? It already covers a large area and is 100% safe on block already, it's not really difficult to land and the slow start up was designed for use with floating. I'd rather see other, less used moves with more KB, like Fsmash or Uair.

 

[The Cape]

Its possible, I just know these are solid.

I would love to see giving forwardB a 180 degree change so that it hits towards peach. That would be awesome.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

A bit of revisiting.

The current numbers of Fair do nothing for the purpose of reducing shield stun. I tested this with debug pause and frame perfect advantage is +10 with both sets of figures. I also don't even think Peach's fair needs any KB adjustment at all because it's her strongest aerial already and is safe to use.

Side B's natural angle of 20 could be put to really good use as far as making a deadly kill move just by giving it more KBG. It begins to kill Mario at 239% from the center of FD with no DI. Sheik's vBrawl Fair was stronger than that and has a higher angle, too. The move is awkward enough to fit the job of a strong KO move finding itself in Peach's hands.

Up+B multi-hits could stand to link into the end better. Cutting the landing lag by a nice figure or increasing her aerial movement while descending could be passable too, considering she's already very easily intercepted while floating down with the move.

Fsmash is another move that could use adjustment to not be so ineffective due to its random factor. The only object that consistently performs is the golf club, with decent KB and good reach. Pan has pretty weak KO power for such short range, and tennis racket is very weak except for the small tipped sweetspot, which is like 90% of the knee's power on hit. That's never something you can count on happening though with this move, and it's an extremely large contrast within the tennis racket alone.

Toad is another move that I have some issues with. The spores really need to not be clash cancelable, and when triggered in the air, the move needs less gravity because she currently falls like a brick. I know we can't really do much about clashes right now, but this is something the move needs.

If I can get hitbox data for any of these moves, I'll be happy to do the tweaking myself.

 

[goodoldganon]

I don't think Peach needs all that though. She's a really solid character.

I am ok with Side-B having a little more KO power and when we get a throw mod she needs the *****slap back to.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Each of those moves I listed are so slow and awkward that they should at least do something decent when you hit with them, or at least work in the case of Up+B and Toad.

 

[slikvik]

A bit of revisiting.

The current numbers of Fair do nothing for the purpose of reducing shield stun. I tested this with debug pause and frame perfect advantage is +10 with both sets of figures. I also don't even think Peach's fair needs any KB adjustment at all because it's her strongest aerial already and is safe to use.

Side B's natural angle of 20 could be put to really good use as far as making a deadly kill move just by giving it more KBG. It begins to kill Mario at 239% from the center of FD with no DI. Sheik's vBrawl Fair was stronger than that and has a higher angle, too. The move is awkward enough to fit the job of a strong KO move finding itself in Peach's hands.

Up+B multi-hits could stand to link into the end better. Cutting the landing lag by a nice figure or increasing her aerial movement while descending could be passable too, considering she's already very easily intercepted while floating down with the move.

Fsmash is another move that could use adjustment to not be so ineffective due to its random factor. The only object that consistently performs is the golf club, with decent KB and good reach. Pan has pretty weak KO power for such short range, and tennis racket is very weak except for the small tipped sweetspot, which is like 90% of the knee's power on hit. That's never something you can count on happening though with this move, and it's an extremely large contrast within the tennis racket alone.

Toad is another move that I have some issues with. The spores really need to not be clash cancelable, and when triggered in the air, the move needs less gravity because she currently falls like a brick. I know we can't really do much about clashes right now, but this is something the move needs.

If I can get hitbox data for any of these moves, I'll be happy to do the tweaking myself.

I agree with this. I didn't mind the fair having more knockback but since its a safe killing option, there's no need for it. sideB is practically useless since there's always another safe and more rewarding option. Toad in vBrawl was safe to use while recovering, but not any longer due to the increased gravity

edit: toad is the most obvious issue to fix since altering the game physics created the the issue