Patch v1.0.4 Changes to Shulk: Info Dump

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Came here after I seemingly did really well against one good japanese player in FG despite usually not playing Shulk (Even if I know how he mostly works.)

Those buffs and changes... I could use playing him more now.

 

[Berserker.]

So... We have yet to check Shield's defense, buster's defense, jump's defense, smash's KB increase, and jump's recovery height (Although one claimed that it's better but idk)

Vision seems the same. Back slash is the same. Air slash's 1st hit (same goes for Advancing air slash) was increased by 1% damage

Argh. Masterlinkx, Ryker save us

 

[pikazz]

False.
Just tested it and there is still a horizontal hitbox.

D-Air is a Meteor spike (but as a sweetspot), missing the sweetspot result a horizontal hit.
it was the same in the original game to this patch

 

[Berserker.]

Random BS to confirm or dump

- Was any of Shulk's hitboxes improved?
- Does any of Shulk's moves feel faster?
- Is Shulk's walk and dash speed faster?
- How are the arts modifiers? (Aerodrome is handling that)
- Is bair any different other than damage?
- Does fair have less landing lag?

 

[Kiyosuki]

Wow I tried Shulk just now for a bit and it's like he's almost a different character.

 

[Berserker.]

I think what's important for me is testing f-air and b-air and testing his dash speed

We need multiple sources or a video comparison for proof

 

[Goesasu]

All his two hit combo attacks links more reliable now. This includes:
Fsmash
Usmash
Dair--> This is an awesome killing move now thanks to this.This move is now better than Fair while Ofstage in my opinion.

At work now, cant test anymore. I pass the torch now.

 

[Muster]

Shulk's D-Air now spikes the opponent downwards instead of sending them sideways.

This was already a thing

and testing his fair before the update confirmed that it and nair now do 7% as opposed to 6%. Speed nair appears to do 5% while speed fair does 6%

 

[monadoboyy]

Not sure if this was in the older version but you can now combo f-air into jab combo in vanilla. Like it's counted as a 4 hit combo. FF Fair to jab

Also works at ~33% against Bowser with buster. Does that imply anything

Also, does anyone notice any changes with b-air other than damage?

I remember it did 13% damage near the hilt, but I'm only getting 12 all across the blade in training and 8 around the tip. Maybe I was just hallucinating before, because that hilt information isn't in the move list

 

[Claxus]

Can't seem to pull off F-air > jab in any art. Close, but not really a combo.

But whoa, that faster F-air recovery... I think it's nearly as safe as N-air if spaced.

This has been patchmas for Shulk.

 

[TWILTHERO]

Is it just slight damage increases so far? Was hoping for more of a general lag decrease, but I'll take what I can get!

Also, FAir > Jab seems nice; want to test this as soon as I get home tonight. x_x

 

[Varsuuvius]

I haven't been able to pull of Fair -> Jab but after about 10 or so matches, everything just feels better. I feel like I can KO better even without Smash up. Hell I got a KO in Speed, I don't think I've ever done that before.I haven't had confirmation on his walk/dash speed yet though.

 

[Player-3]

smash mode knockback was heavily increased

killed with smash dash attack at 107 post hit with good di, killed with smash nair at 100~ post hit near edge of stage and killed with smash utilt at 97 post hit on the lower bf platform


(as far as i can tell the knockback you receive has not changed enough for me to notice it, but the kb you deal definitely did)

this is vanilla MA i don't use custom ones so idk about them

 

[Kiyosuki]

It's truly Shulk time now.

 

[erico9001]

Shulk's knockback changes (150% Mario, all controlled for sweetspots (except maybe back slash)).
1.03->1.04

DSmash - 194->205 (up close)
FSmash - 215->223 (no tilt, up close, both hits)
USmash - 201-208 (both hits, Mario is already slightly above me)
<All Smashes are fully charged>

Ftilt - 136->134 (blade, up close)
Utilt - 115->122
Dtilt - 105->112 (about where the beam starts)

Bthrow - 104->104
Fthrow - 98->99
DThrow - 111->112
Uthrow - 83->83

Nair - 95->103 (used while practically inside Mario)
Fair - 102->110 (used very close to Mario)
Bair - 131->139 (where the blade ends and beam starts)
U-air - 131->139 (both hitboxes)
Dair - 117->124 (both hitboxes, no spike.)
Dair (Spike hitbox only) - 94->102

Back slash - no change in knockback from front
From the back 160->170? (I believe...? testing this from behind is difficult. Iffy.)

Air Slash (up-B) knockback - 137->138

Vision (counter) - Not going to attempt

Monado Arts - For later testing

Summary:
Most of Shulk's moves have an increase of 7 or 8. Notable differences:
-The throws are not at all or hardly at all changed in knockback.
-Ftilt has a slight knockback decrease
-Air-Slash is barely increased
​

I could use some help testing back slash's knockback from behind.

Now that we have this data on knockback, let's test the changes to knockback in MArts. Just pick one of the easier moves to test and do it on each system in a monado art. We can see how the knockbacks compare.

edit: dash attack is 126->132

 

[MASTERLINKX]

I can confirm Fair has less landing lag!

 

[MarioFireRed]

I can confirm Fair has less landing lag!

I'm in Shulk haven.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I can confirm Fair has less landing lag!

Numbers pls

 

[Plain Yogurt]

Looks like Shulk and Ike won the patch lottery this time around. This pleases me.

 

[Augi Jr.]

So we all agree Fair got alot of love.

I feel like Bair is different. I feel like it comes out faster now. In addition, Did the Bair always have an "inside Shulk" hitbox before it deploys? Like, If im ontop of a character and do Bair they get hit even though the sword is still inline with Shulks body.

Its like it has 3 stages, Inside shulk, behind shulk, and then blue beam.

Also Shulk just feels so much faster in general.... He used to feel closer to Ike. Now he feels closer to Marth.

 

[erico9001]

F-Tilt Launcher Speed

|1.03 speed|1.04 speed|1.03 difference|1.04 difference|My Conclusion
Vanilla|136|134|0|0|--
Jump|136|134|0|0|No change in knockback with Jump
Speed|134|132|2|2|No change in knockback with Speed
Shield|134|132|2|2|No change in knockback with Shield
Buster|94|93|42|41|No change in knockback with Buster
Smash|156|153|20|19|No change in knockback with Smash

The differences between the two versions of Smash are insignificant enough to say that there is no change in knockback between Monado Arts.
-
Dash attack data: 126->132 (up close, not an outlier)
-

So we all agree Fair got alot of love.

I feel like Bair is different. I feel like it comes out faster now. In addition, Did the Bair always have an "inside Shulk" hitbox before it deploys? Like, If im ontop of a character and do Bair they get hit even though the sword is still inline with Shulks body.

Its like it has 3 stages, Inside shulk, behind shulk, and then blue beam.

It did have a hitbox that worked inside of him. I can see about testing the speed though
edit: Or should I leave that up to data miners?

 

[Augi Jr.]

F-Tilt Launcher Speed

|1.03 speed|1.04 speed|1.03 difference|1.04 difference|My Conclusion
Vanilla|136|134|0|0|--
Jump|136|134|0|0|No change in knockback with Jump
Speed|134|132|2|2|No change in knockback with Speed
Shield|134|132|2|2|No change in knockback with Shield
Buster|94|93|42|41|No change in knockback with Buster
Smash|156|153|20|19|No change in knockback with Smash

The differences between the two versions of Smash are insignificant enough to say that there is no change in knockback between Monado Arts.
-
Dash attack data: 126->132 (up close, not an outlier)
-

It did have a hitbox that worked inside of him. I can see about testing the speed though
edit: Or should I leave that up to data miners?

Go ahead and test, unless you have something more important on your plate. One thing for me though, His swords hitboxes seem much less deceptive, they extend to the tip now.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Speed shouldn't be doing less knockback..............

 

[erico9001]

So just to give a simple yes or no answer I went into practice, set it to 1/4 speed, performed jumps and then the moves at the same exact times, and held shield on both 3ds.

FAir has less landing lag, but BAir does not.
-BAir does not seem to come out faster to me either.

Go ahead and test, unless you have something more important on your plate. One thing for me though, His swords hitboxes seem much less deceptive, they extend to the tip now.

They did make the beam more bright/thick with version 1.03. You may be noticing that.

Speed shouldn't be doing less knockback..............

Actually it should be! I did some tests with Speed/Shield pre-update and found that they both decrease knockback a slight bit (and usually about the same amount). Not by much though. I did these tests with both HRC and what percent the opponent dies at

edit:

I would think it would not due to how the coding worked in Brawl. Although, I guess it could be different this time around.

Using the same technique I first used on Bowser, but this time on Mario, I found it does not matter that it's being charged. I used F-tilt - 192% Vanilla 194% Shield. (it hit with the tip of the beam)

I think now I will test the other arts out.

Alright so with the first Bowser test (hitting him left)
Plain Shulk: 108%
Jump: 108%
Speed: 115%
Shield: 111%
Buster: 178%
Smash: 94%

With the second test (hitting him right)
Plain Shulk: 71%
Jump: 71%
Speed: 77%
Shield: 78%
Buster: 123%
Smash: 63%

Seems Shield and Speed have about the same knockback, but for some reason Speed has better knockback at low percentages and worse knockback at high percentages. Smash is a little surprising to me because I thought it increased the knockback more than that.

Another thought to get a quantitative measure is to use home run contest. For each time, I hit the sandbag with two jabs and then an additional one jab and push it fully to the wall by walking. The sandbag is at 9% damage. Then I fully charge a down smash. The distance from where the platform stops appears to be about 25 feet, so I added that to each distance.

Plain: 45.9 ->70.9
Jump: 45.9 ->70.9
Speed: 37.7 -> 62.7
Shield: 36.7 ->61.7
Buster: 27.5 ->52.5
Smash: 50.1 ->75.1

Same trend. Again, Speed sends the opponent a little farther at low percentages. The difference between Plain and Speed (or Shield) seems more significant at lower percentages. It looks like the opponent being easier to send farther away (either because of being a lighter character or higher damage) levels out the differences between modes to an extent.

 

[MASTERLINKX]

Numbers pls

http://i.4cdn.org/vg/1416347652093.webm

I don't have a 60fps camera so I can't really compare that well with a camera shoved in my mouth. Maybe 5-7 frames.

 

[erico9001]

Shulk's FS still does 40%
And using it 3 times repeatedly still gets you 120%. The move is unchanged.

I'm using this to calculate the new damage multipliers.
Jump - 120% <×1>
Speed - 95% <×.8> (redid this with 5 hits, 160% (divided by 200%))
Shield - 84% <×.7>
Buster - 168% <×1.4>
Smash - 60% <×.5>

The only difference is Speed- now is -20% rather than -28%.

 

[SonicZeroX]

Uh I can't remember if this was the case before, you but can't use other B moves while changing stances.

I could have sworn it was possible before since you could Monado cancel Back Slash?

 

[Plain Yogurt]

As far as I know you could never use B moves while choosing an art. Whenever there's a Kanji behind Shulk the B button will only cycle the stances. It's why CPU Shulk SDs so often.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

@ erico9001 they decrease knockback because they do less damage

 

[erico9001]

@ erico9001 they decrease knockback because they do less damage

I'm not sure what your point is sorry :x

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I'm not sure what your point is sorry :x

ok

 

[erico9001]

Shulk's FAir is the only one with changed landing lag

Just some other random stuff I tested for:

Shulk's Smashes are all the same speed
Shulk's Ftilt is the same speed
Down Smash still has just 2 hits behind, not 3
Shulk's annoying lack of hitbox at the back of his Dtilt is fixed!!! We can hit people close to us!
Jigglypuff still gets out of Shulk's AAA combo

edit: Shulk is not invincible during his counter.
He may have a higher priority with his counter's attack, however. I would like to test this with somebody else.

edit:
Shulk's issue with characters getting out of his F-Smash is much improved (Ike is good to test this on)

 

[Kiyosuki]

I'm not a Shulk main but even then I can tell... my god his Bair is SO RELIABLE now and it hits like a truck even without Smash Monado plus huge range. I'm a chronic pivot turn bair user so I tried to do that often when the game first game out and it always whiffed even when I felt like it shouldn't have, now it's extremely reliable.

He finally feels like like he has 5 valid aerials instead of 1.5. I can FEEL THE POWAH!

 

[Berserker.]

smash mode knockback was heavily increased

killed with smash dash attack at 107 post hit with good di, killed with smash nair at 100~ post hit near edge of stage and killed with smash utilt at 97 post hit on the lower bf platform


(as far as i can tell the knockback you receive has not changed enough for me to notice it, but the kb you deal definitely did)

this is vanilla MA i don't use custom ones so idk about them

I'm also backing this up. I don't recall KO'ing ZSS at 64% with normal smash art+d-smash

 

[FlareHabanero]

Has there been any changes to Vision? Is the multiplier different, does it excecute faster, does it travel farther?

 

[erico9001]

It's probably due to the attack itself having higher knockback (caused by the larger damage), so Smash also has higher knockback.

I can test though. When I tested when bowser dies by fully charged F-Smash before (going left) I found he died at 94% with Smash. Now he dies at 90% with Smash. In addition, Bowser was KO'd at 63% when going to the right (space of my toe touching his toe), and now he dies at 63%.

Has there been any changes to Vision? Is the multiplier different, does it excecute faster, does it travel farther?

The thing about this is it's easiest to test with another person. I'm looking to see if Bowser Jr
s F-smash still stops the attack, so do you want to test this online with me?

Oo, I also have some data on its damage pre-update. We could base if it has an increase in damage from that.

 

[erico9001]

By the way, the knockback tests I did earlier were only for the hitboxes I specified. It's very possible for other hitboxes in the moves to be buffed.

 

[Berserker.]

So...

Confirmed

• Shulk's knockback on all attacks sans jab and front hit back slash was increased
• Shulk received damage buffs all around sans back slash and vision
• Buster art Shulk receives 13% more damage down from 20%
• F-air's landing lag is reduced (Not confirmed: 5-7 frames? Needs a pinpoint difference)
• F-smash's first hit has zero KB which allows it to connect more reliably

Not confirmed

• B-air comes out faster
• F-air's range was increased
• D-tilt's range was increased (All 3 of these need video comparisons)
• Smash art's KB modifier has been increased (Needs numerical confirmation or multiple sources. 2 sources atm)

 

[Berserker.]

Shulk's smash art+d-smash KO's mario at the middle of FD at 95%. Someone with 1.0.3 do the same thing to compare?

Reports claim that Shield Shulk+rage KO's Falcon at 88% from "the other side of the map"

 

[erico9001]

Oh I know how we can 100% confirm or deconfirm whether Smash has more knockback or not.

Since Shulk's Final Smash deals the same damage, we can use that. I don't have the other 3ds that I was using to test with me right now, unfortunately.
-Just get the Max Launcher Speed for the move before the update and then after. I'm predicting no change based on what I said earlier though.

edit: We can do this method for all modes except for Speed