Patch v1.0.4 Changes to Shulk: Info Dump

[Berserker.]

For the throws dealing +1% more damage, where is that 1% directed to? First hit or Second hit?

And oh my @ the KB increases @_@

Is the final say about Smash mode's KB increase true or false?

After Eric tested it 999 times, no. It's probably a product from the damage increase

And also, +1% to the first hit

 

[Monado Boy]

Were all this buffs really necessary? Don't get me wrong, I like and main Shulk but comparing to the nerfs and small buffs the rest of the roster received this was huge.

I feel like the buffs that made the second hits of his smashes connect consistently and the buff to his F-Air's landing lag were absolutely necessary. Everything else is just icing on the cake.

 

[Masonomace]

Now see the exact opposite happened to me.

Friend say definitely yes.


It's basically a "well **** what the hell is it" kind of thing.

The best of both worlds are equaling indecisiveness for me. Decisive Monado Arts just may ease my situation a bit.

After Eric tested it 999 times, no. It's probably a product from the damage increase

And also, +1% to the first hit

Rats, I was hoping it was added to the 2nd hit for them #MasterRaceBusterThrows
~Will update

 

[Berserker.]

Okay. Back slash did get change. But the hitboxes are even more effed up

VERY tip of back slash 13%
Tip of back slash 14%
Blade and beam 16%
Lens/Glass 14%

Not sure if it was like this in 1.0.3

Last check, was the jump height of monado jump increased?

 

[Masonomace]

Okay. Back slash did get change. But the hitboxes are even more effed up

VERY tip of back slash 13%
Tip of back slash 14%
Blade and beam 16%
Lens/Glass 14%

Not sure if it was like this in 1.0.3

Last check, was the jump height of monado jump increased?

These are the same back-damage numbers according to the first table from the Metagame Thread (thanks again for that @Plain Yogurt ), so that's good. You worry me when you say they're more effed up.....................

So for all of those increased KB values, were all of those into account with the Blade & Beam portions? And about Back Slash's whatever portion used to get those KB values. .were those tested with the same portion, or do the different areas of the Monado sword even make that much of a difference to the KB?

EDIT: Personally the difference of Blade & Beam at most is ~2%, so really that shouldn't affect KB that entirely. . .right?

 

[Berserker.]

Let's just leave it as, damage buff increases knockback. Blade or beam

 

[Masonomace]

Alllllllrighty then. I think the buffs / nerfs / unchanged list is about right. Ofc if I'm missing anything please tell me, & I can add extra Unchanged Info that's general knowledge & that kind of jazz.
Great Job so far everyone!!

EDIT: I didn't add DACUS despite there's no video evidence that it's in this patch, but I'll keep it in mind as a To Be Announced sorta thing. I have it saved on my NotePad for the future ahead of us.

 

[Berserker.]

18 - 36 - 54 - 72 - 91 - 109 - 127 - 145 - 163 - 182

18.2 damage w/ buster

140% of 13 damage so Buster is still x1.4 so it's unchanged



9 - 18 - 27 - 36 - 45 - 54 - 63 - 72 - 81 - 91

9.1 damage w/ shield

Shield has a x0.7 damage multiplier so it's unchanged

Smash is also still x0.5 damage


For comparing...

18.2% (x1.4)
13% (x1.0)
10.2% (x0.8)
9.1% (x0.7)
6.5% (x0.5)

Yep. I think that's about it. Just double checking

I think Shulk is one of the most buffed characters. Damage buff on all his moves which buff KB, less (slight but noticeable) landing lag on fair, buster's defense buff and damage buff indirectly from vanilla damage buffs, speed's damage buff, some bug fixes like inconsistent connections with d-tilt and smashes.... Daaaamn

I think Zelda needed this treatment but whatever. They got that godlike 0.5% buff on their u-tilt

 

[Creo]

I've just read through the more-or-less completed list of ver. 1.04 Shulk's buffs and nerfs. . . . Good work, everyone (I mean, it's dumb how Nintendo hasn't released the patch notes publicly themselves, but whatever)! I myself haven't yet had the chance to experience ver. 1.04 Shulk yet, but I'll be certain to a little later in the day. On paper, this is the Shulk I believe we had envisioned; The Shulk we were really feeling to see. I was running through the majority of people with ver. 1.03 Shulk, so I'm looking forward to seeing what I can bring to the table now. Again, good collective work towards the people who went out of their way to obtain this newfound data. . . It is much appreciated.

Edit: F-Air feels so much better on its landing-lag now. . . Not to say it can be used carelessly, but I love it!

 

[Berserker.]

Pretty hyped for f-air now

Buster is great now. Lol at the damage output and we take like 13% more damage instead of 20%

The damage buffs also helped with smash's KB and pretty much Shulk's KB. KO'ing heavies at ~80-85% feels amazing (maybe it's because I'm using f-smash, d-smash, u-smash and air slash for KO'ing BUT WHATEVER)



Speed buff also really helps in making speed even more worth it

 

[Berserker.]

Incoming

Potential buffs and nerfs

Shulk
-Easier to connect with both hits of Forward Smash and Up Smash. The inside of the attacks do more damage but is more even or more "Marth-like" [Honestly don't know what that second part means, might refer to the fact that the first hit doesn't send the opponent flying]
-Less time needed to wait for Monado arts to restore themselves? [The wording on this is strange]
-Something about the Down Air Meteor and complete death [I think he means it's easier to kill with it?]
-More invincibility on the Down B counterattack
-Down B's timing is stricter but the move is quicker overall
-Forward Air comes out more quickly
-Harder to pivot out of a dash [I assume this means the time it takes to go from pivot back into dash]
-Throws are stronger
-Back Air is faster

Double check all these (Except for the ones we've done already). Side by side if you want

Edit: Info's probably full of placebo (Sans the ones we already confirmed) but it won't hurt confirming, I guess

 

[erico9001]

I have double checked the F-Smash connecting better. This is very easy to test against Ike. Space it mid-distance.

Fthrow and Dthrow have a slight knockback increase (only +1)
Bthrow - 104->104
Fthrow - 98->99
DThrow - 111->112
Uthrow - 83->83

I'm not sure what the "down air meteor" one means, but like most moves there is an increased knockback on the spike of the move.
Dair - 117->124 (both hitboxes, no spike.)
Dair (Spike hitbox only) - 94->102
Or does the question refer to both hitboxes connecting easier?

I tried to test for invincibility yesterday since I was curious if he had total invincibility. What I did is I went to practice mode and put down the spicy curry item for the enemy to take. You can counter the fireballs, but you'll most likely be hit by another one as you approach the opponent with your counter. I'm unsure of if there was an increase in invincibility or not. I can't think of many other ways to test it yourself - maybe the fire flower item would work as well. I can confirm it is not total invincibility though.

I'm very interested to see if the MArts have less down time. I actually took notice to this yesterday, but I threw the idea away as just a psychological effect, since I was waiting for a smash ball to appear rather than being in an active fight. I can test this when I get home though with two 3ds side by side =]. It will probably will be hours until I get home, so somebody else is more than welcome to test this if they can.

I'll also test the down B's timing.

 

[Berserker.]

Don't test the weights

All of 'em weren't changed

 

[Life]

Question: the listed buff for Back Slash's knockback, is that for rear-facing or forward-facing opponents or both?

 

[FlareHabanero]

I did check the cooldown for Monado Arts, and it's still about 10 seconds.

Also, back aerial has the same speed.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Are damage modifiers for dealt/received changed for Hyper Speed/Buster?
I'm getting ~7.5 to speed jab combo. Seems fairly disproportionate.

Maybe my math is wrong but hyper buster takes ~35% more damage, not 44%

Speed is like ~0.63 damage modifier not ~0.53 from what I can tell.

Ftilt does 8.3 hyper speed averaged over 10 hits. Ftilt now does 13 vanilla. Do believe its not the posted 0.53 of 1.03

Eg.
Monado speed 0.8x dealt - 8% dif
Monado bustah 1.13x recieved - 7% dif
Hyper speed ~ 0.63x dealt. ~ 10% dif
Hyper bustah ~ 1.35x received. ~ 9% dif

 

[erico9001]

As Soul Blazer said, it's the same cooldown for Marts. I tested it too.

I just realized I can't test the down b's timing by myself. It has the same overall speed though, if that counts for anything (might be unrelated though)

I found the damage you take with Shield is the same (although that may have already been found)

-

Are we sure that the weight you are in various modes is unchanged? For instance, the knockback you take in Monado Smash? If not, I have an idea for how to test that.

 

[Masonomace]

Question: the listed buff for Back Slash's knockback, is that for rear-facing or forward-facing opponents or both?

I don't remember the specifics either; I presumed it was for both (but when ya think about it, there's so many different hit-box areas you can connect with Back Slash's front & back hits. . .)

Where in the Back Slash's hit-area did the 160 » 170 come from guys, everywhere??

EDIT: And for extra things of clarifying a test, DMArts still take a long time to activate themselves in the same hand that HMArts still activate themselves very quickly? (I doubt MArts's self-activation time changed but it could of happened)

 

[erico9001]

The 160->170 is rather iffy because I don't know where it hit. It's really hard to test Back Slash from behind, so I just put down what I got and let people know it needs more testing. It really does.

 

[Kiyosuki]

Were all this buffs really necessary? Don't get me wrong, I like and main Shulk but comparing to the nerfs and small buffs the rest of the roster received this was huge.

It's definitely an almost excessive amount of buffs, but the end result is a character that feels far more in line with what the concept wanted him to be. A solid but average, reach based swordfighter with some deceptive utility and whose timed pokes hit hard, with the ability to change his attributes on a whim. Shulk could manage but it always felt to me like he was just lacking something essential to make his kit make sense, like it just always felt like something just wasn't working as intended with him and obviously the devs thought so too since they tweaked him so heavily to get him where he should be, but now he is.

If it took that many little tweaks to get Shulk to where he should be then so be it. My only gripe is I wish certain other characters would get the same in depth attention to detail in the future, but Shulk definitely needed it since he doesn't feel buffed to me so much as just fixed.

 

[monadoboyy]

The 160->170 is rather iffy because I don't know where it hit. It's really hard to test Back Slash from behind, so I just put down what I got and let people know it needs more testing. It really does.

I tried that thing on the vs lvl 1 cpu at 150%, but it's a bit hard since Mario changes the direction he's facing with Back Slash. I'm also basing the knockback on the percentage it did to him

>16%(blade/beam, rear): 170
>14%(near the glass and air tipper, rear): 153
>10%(front, beam): 120
>9%(front, near the hilt I guess): 112

Getting the back tipper is harder than I thought, I'm no Marth main

 

[EternalFlame]

I tried that thing on the vs lvl 1 cpu at 150%, but it's a bit hard since Mario changes the direction he's facing with Back Slash. I'm also basing the knockback on the percentage it did to him

>16%(blade/beam, rear): 170
>14%(near the glass and air tipper, rear): 153
>10%(front, beam): 120
>9%(front, near the hilt I guess): 112

Getting the back tipper is harder than I thought, I'm no Marth main

Should I help with that then? (<- Marth main xD)

 

[Berserker.]

Oh by the way, there have been reports on differences with 1.0.4 and the Wii U version according to some people at the community patch thread. Not confirmed but....

So maybe u-tilt did get a range nerf (Although since you guys are doubting it, I don't know)

So.... Yeah, double check 100% of Shulk again on the Wii U version

 

[Pitzer]

This is a bit out the window, but apparently Ike's Jab2 was fixed to consistently connect to his Jab3 more often. So with that said, someone mess with Shulk's Jabs & get back with that to the max.

(I was done with the jab2 > jab3 knock-up whiff on Rosalina & any other lightweights)

You can do Jab, Jab 2, to Up-b vs those characters in smash mode so it's a pretty nasty frame trap on them

 

[Berserker.]

You can do Jab, Jab 2, to Up-b vs those characters in smash mode so it's a pretty nasty frame trap on them

.... I did not know that. I play around with smash art for a bit

 

[Pitzer]

Now it's shulks time.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

http://smashboards.com/threads/community-patch-notes-v1-0-4-engine-changes-to-di.378404/

check shulk's section

also there were a couple of changes in the file which i couldnt figure out what they were, they might be backslash changes but idk

 

[Berserker.]

http://smashboards.com/threads/community-patch-notes-v1-0-4-engine-changes-to-di.378404/

check shulk's section

also there were a couple of changes in the file which i couldnt figure out what they were, they might be backslash changes but idk

You should probably make those changes to the Monado data thread when you have the time

Good job though

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I might make a new thread since the old one is relevant for 1.0.0-1.0.3

 

[ChronoPenguin]

http://smashboards.com/threads/community-patch-notes-v1-0-4-engine-changes-to-di.378404/

check shulk's section

also there were a couple of changes in the file which i couldnt figure out what they were, they might be backslash changes but idk

Missing the Hyper Smash/Speed changes.

 

[Berserker.]

Missing the Hyper Smash/Speed changes.

You meant hyper buster instead of hyper smash?

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Yup, slip of the tongue keyboard

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Well

Technically I'm not missing them

Since I don't know the values :>

 

[Berserker.]

Well

Technically I'm not missing them

Since I don't know the values :>

x1.35 damage taken multiplier for buster
x0.63 damage multiplier for speed

Thanks to @ ChronoPenguin for this

 

[ChronoPenguin]

I dont believe they are exact however. Given how the previous data was it's probably 1.3xx and 0.6xx.
1.35x and 0.63x is what I understand them to be from my testing but this is over the course of 10 hits, not 100.

Not like we put the exact frame Data change for F-air so may be useful to document that there was a change. Can always put the specifics when we have the specifics :o.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Not like we put the exact frame Data change for F-air

if i knew it it would be in there

 

[Berserker.]

if i knew it it would be in there

Don't bite pls

 

[ChronoPenguin]

if i knew it it would be in there

I warn you I brush my teeth with wolves and eat roided elephants for breakfast.

 

[memk]

U-smash beam is 13.5(don't mind me only tested on WiiU) Does anyone know if 1.0.1(wiiU) is equal to 1.0.4(3DS)?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

No. There's minor differences.