Official Patch 4.0.0 Discussion Thread

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Double checking numbers from pre-patch before repeating these tests post patch:

Spoiler: patch 3.1 values

Mewtwo

• U-Smash first hit active on frames 9-11 (9 only hits targets on the ground beside him)
  • second hit on frame 14-15
  • third hit on frame 18-19
  • final hit active on frame 22-23
• D-Smash total frames is 43
• Side B grabs on frame 12 and when successful deals damage on frames 22, 24, 26, 28, 30, 32, 34, 40. Total frames is also 40 when successful and 44 when you miss.
  • Reflects projectiles on frame 12-35
• B-throw deals 10.0 base damage.

Pit

• Jab 1 startup is 5. Total frames is 26.
• U-tilt total frames is 34
• B-air landing lag is 11

Ivysaur

• Side B startup is 22 and total frames is 46

Charizard

• F-Smash deals 17.0 base damage up close and 14.0 on the farthest hitbox.
• N-air hits on frames 8-19
• Side B can grab ledges as early as frame 54.

Lucas

• Dash attack hits on frames 13-15
• U-Smash Invincibility frames on 1-4. Head intangible on frames 15-29
• U-Air total frames is 33
• PK Fire landing lag is 22 frames

Rosalina

• Dunno if this is what it was referring to but if Rosalina is caped during those moves, she'll turn around while Luna continues in the original direction. However, this phenomenon did not occur when testing F-Smash. Jab and U-Smash do have this issue

PAC-Man

• Neutral B has a bug where if he is caped during charge, a copy of the current fruit drops at his feet, allowing Mario to pick it up. Pac-Man will not lose his fruit charge and continue as normal.

Corrin

• Pin Jump is 45 total frames

Ridley

• U-Smash hits on frames 12-16
• B-Air deals 15.0 base damage
• Side B manual release is 41 total frames on the ground and in the air.
  • the automatic release at a ledge is 42 total frames
• Up B startup depends on direction traveled. Directly up is 37. Left or right is 39. Straight down is 40

Isabelle

• Jab close hitbox delivers 18 frames of hitstun on Mario at 0%
• Side B grabs as early as frame 25
• Lloid Trap proximity sensor turns on frame 51 from initial button press to plant it
  • When activated, hits on frame 11/19/27/35/43/51

Piranha Plant

• U-tilt total frames is 31
• Side B is active starting on frame 13 (from charging state) or 23 from a stored full charge
  • Cloud lasts between ~110 and ~150 frames depending on charge Put another way, damage totals out at 24.0 - 40.0 against Mario
• Down B total frames is 65-125 depending on charge, plus 10 if he tips over.
  • Endlag on-hit is 39 or 49 if he tipped over.

 

[Methacrylate]

shrooby

We labbed the Corrin changes.

• Forward Smash: Increased knockback

We have no way of looking into knockback values so we cannot give any exact numbers here until a data dump is performed on the patch. The testing indicates only base knockback was effected and it seems to be a rather large change as we are finding fsmash to kill 14% sooner with no rage. In short, BKB increased from 35 to ????.

• Down Air: Immediately descend when using the attack after being launched.

Similarly like all other characters with drop down dairs, Corrin lost the stalling dair when buffering dair out of hitstun. Corrin now drops to the ground when buffering dair.

• Side Special: Reduced FAF when jumping after stabbing the ground

Jumping out of the pinned state used to have a FAF of 45 and now has a FAF of 39, so 6 frame reduction.

• Up Special: Increased vertical and horizontal distance

Upb distance increased by one grid unit on the training mode stage. If upb is done completely vertically then the full unit is in the vertical distance; however, if the upb is done at an angle then a proportion of the increase is given to both the vertical and horizontal directions. The natural angle of the upb (not holding back for vertical nor hold forward to increase horizontal) will give 0.7 unit increase to vertical and 0.3 unit increase to horizontal.

Hopefully everything is described well enough here. The lab team really wanted to get back to Three Houses lol so if something needs further testing it might take a bit to get people together for it.

 

[LGameTales]

Here are all the Isabelle buffs courtesy of the Isabelle Discord. We have both versions so we tested side-by-side.



Rolls go farther. (2.25u > 2.85u)

Jab has more hitstun. It is now +4 at 0% instead of +2.
Jab has less pushback so it connects better.

USmash kills ~6% earlier. (Uncharged 118% > 112%, Full 79% > 74%)
USmash's late hit kills ~7% earlier. (Uncharged 148% > 141%, Full 105% > 99%)

Rod has 4 frames less startup (f25 > f21) which also affects its FAF and etc.
Rod UThrow kills 10% earlier. (Cast Average 150% > 140%)

Lloid activates sooner (f11 > f9) so far fewer characters can run over it.
Lloid's final explosion still comes out on the same frame, so technically the enemy is trapped for 2 more frames overall.

 

[ZephyrZ]

I'm not really sure Razor Leaf is all that good anymore. The best thing about it was that it confirmed into Vine Whip, take that away and you're left with just a decent projectile. Her neutral's never been particularly good imo and good characters definitely outshine her there, it's just that getting hit by her was incredibly threatening. Dair is still massive but you actually gotta hit the sweetspot now, sourspot is significantly worse.

She'll still have high damage combos, but Squirtle does it already on top of having better neutral imo. On the other hand Zard's a tech chase machine now, and with nair setting those up I think he's filling Ivy's niche now.

Eh Squirtle's and Ivysaur's neutrals both have flaws, but they're better in different situations. Squirtle has the frame data and small body but that range can be a real issue sometimes. Ivysaur has a good projectile and good disjoints and controls space really well.

Meanwhile Razor Leaf definitely still has confirms, it's just harder (but still possible) to kill off of with Vine Whip now. 4 extra frames (assuming I counted currectly) weren't enough to actually neuter that move.

Heck even the "Power Whip" confirm still seems to work sometimes with good positioning.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Z-axis + 4.0.0's tail hurtbox decrease.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

It puts a smile to one's face.

• Up Special: Increased vertical and horizontal distance

Upb distance increased by one grid unit on the training mode stage. If upb is done completely vertically then the full unit is in the vertical distance; however, if the upb is done at an angle then a proportion of the increase is given to both the vertical and horizontal directions. The natural angle of the upb (not holding back for vertical nor hold forward to increase horizontal) will give 0.7 unit increase to vertical and 0.3 unit increase to horizontal.

I won't be testing it today, but how much distance does up B travel now in comparison to its SSB4 iteration?

Here are all the Isabelle buffs courtesy of the Isabelle Discord. We have both versions so we tested side-by-side.



Rolls go farther. (2.25u > 2.85u)

Jab has more hitstun. It is now +4 at 0% instead of +2.
Jab has less pushback so it connects better.

USmash kills ~6% earlier. (Uncharged 118% > 112%, Full 79% > 74%)
USmash's late hit kills ~7% earlier. (Uncharged 148% > 141%, Full 105% > 99%)

Rod has 4 frames less startup (f25 > f21) which also affects its FAF and etc.
Rod UThrow kills 10% earlier. (Cast Average 150% > 140%)

Lloid activates sooner (f11 > f9) so far fewer characters can run over it.
Lloid's final explosion still comes out on the same frame, so technically the enemy is trapped for 2 more frames overall.

These buffs are actually pretty notable. Wow...

 

[Big O]

DK's waking up animation was changed from lasting 61 frames to 59 frames (FAF 62 -> 60).

 

[Blue Banana]

Hello, I'm one of the labbers for the Olimar discord. These are the frame numbers that I got from testing out Olimar's Forward Smash with purple Pikmin.

• Overall active duration of purple Fsmash has been increased from 11-20 to 11-24.
• The active duration of the second late/sourspot hitbox has been increased from 19-20 to 19-24. The duration of the sweetspot/early hitbox and the first late/sourspot hitbox are still the same from 3.1.0 (11-12 and 13-18, respectively).

This puts the overall duration of purple Fsmash back to its original duration before patch 3.1.0. Although I did not personally compared to it side-by-side, I'm assuming the increased length for purple Fsmash has also been reverted to its original maximum length also before 3.1.0. I'm assuming this is intended to be a fix to purple Fsmash rather than a straight buff because the official 3.1.0 patch notes on Nintendo's website did not explicitly say that the active duration and range of purple Fsmash has been shortened.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

shrooby

Spoiler: patch 4.0 changes

Mewtwo

• Usmash final hit now on frames 22-25 from 22-23. All other hits are on the same frames as before
• Dsmash total frames now 40 from 43
• Side B now grabs on 10 from 12, and all subsequent hits when successful occur two frames earlier as well.
  • Total frames when successful now 38 from 40.
  • Total frames on a miss now 42 from 44.
  • Reflects on frames 10-33 from 12-35
• Bthrow now deals 11.0 damage from 10,0

Pit

• Jab 1 startup now 4 from 5. Total frames now 25 from 26
• U-tilt total frames now 32 from 34
• B-Air landing lag now 8 from 11

Ivysaur

• Side B startup now 24 from 22.
  • Total frames now 48 from 46

Charizard

• F-Smash close hitbox now deals 19.0 damage from 17.0.
  • The far hitbox now deals 16.4 damage from 14.0
• N-air active hit frames now 8-20 from 8-19
  • landing lag now 10 from 13
• Couldn't find a difference in Side B's ledge snap. Still got 54.

Lucas

• Dash attack active hit frames now 13-17 from 13-15
• U-Smash full body invincibility now 1-7 from 1-4
• U-Air total frames now 31 from 33
• Side B landing lag now 19 from 22

PAC-MAN

• Fixed a bug on Neutral B where if he is caped during charge, a copy of the current fruit drops at his feet, allowing Mario to pick it up. Pac-Man will not lose his fruit charge and continue as normal.

Corrin

• Pin Jump is now 39 total frames from 45

Ridley

• U-Smash active hit frames now 12-17 from 12-16
• B-air now deals 16.0 damage from 15.0
• Side B manual release on the ground now 38 total frames from 41
  • Manual release when in the air now 38 total frames from 41
  • Automatic release when reaching a ledge total frames unchanged
• Up B startup when traveling straight up now 34 from 37.
  • When traveling left or right now 36 from 39
  • When traveling straight down now 37 from 40

Isabelle

• Jab hitstun on Mario at 0% now 20 from 18
• Side B grabs as early as 21 from 25.
  • Earliest you can reel in is 46 from 50
• Lloid Trap begins hitting on frame 9 of getting triggered from 11.

Piranha Plant

• U-tilt total frames now 28 from 31
• Side B cloud begins hitting on frame 11 from 13 from a charging state.
  • total frames of spewing now 35 from 38 from a charging state
  • A full charged cloud begins hitting on frame 21 from 23
  • total frames of full charged spew now 45 from 48
• Down B full charge hits on 69 from 80. In other words takes 11 frames less to reach max charge.
  • total frames on release when tipped over now 54 from 59
  • on hit endlag when tipped over now 44 from 49
  • Full charge total frames now 115 from 125
  • Full charge total frames now 120 from 135 when tipped over

Also there's one difference I can confirm regarding Training Mode's combo counter. In pre-patch I did an old test where I repeatedly used Squirtle's Ftilt on Mario at 0% and the game would register the hits as a combo even though Mario could pull up shield between them. In post-patch, it no longer counts as a combo. I know the issue was also observable with Mario's short hop double B-air, so the issue must have been related to moves with that sakurai angle.

 

[SapphSabre777]

Jesuischoq also got close to top 32 in Albion 4, and he already has more points in phase 2 Orion than he did in phase 1, so he isn’t completely dead.

The fact that he’s gone 2 patches in a row without buffs is concerning, though. Especially considering Mewtwo, who arguably won this patch also was a winner in 3.0, where Kirby actually got a few buffs, even if they weren’t that significant.

After sleeping it off a bit, you are right. It's just concerning that he's gone away with two patches without buffs, but it's not doom and gloom just yet. Probably will be taking back that worst in the game mantra for now.

 

[Coolboy]

i feel embarassed for asking but since english isn't my main language and i can't figure out what thy mean by it i have to ask...
what do they mean with the changes to Dair attacks from certain characters like Toon Link,Simon & Bayonetta etc..what exactly did they change about them?
can someone please explain it to me? because i really want to know! ^^''

 

[adom4]

Some Ridley stuff:

U-smash KBG (76>78)
Side-B ledge release KBG (83>90)

 

[KirbySquad101]

I would say Kirby could be the worst in the game, but is looking even more dead in the water at the moment; aside from patch 2.0.0, it hasn't been buffed at all, and as is, BassMage has been the only notable performer backing it up at the moment.

But yeah, I'm not sure how Kirby will fare in this patch, given that both and - two of his worst match-ups - got quite a bit of shiny new toys to play with. That said, I am hoping for these two characters to get some representation back after they both have seemingly lost it for a while.

Oh yeah, and knockback buffs:

DSmash: Front hit sweetspotted deals more knockback (BKB 35 -> 40, KBG 93 -> 98).
DAir: The spike hitbox has more knockback against airborne opponents (BKB 0 -> 10).

 

[Arrei]

i feel embarassed for asking but since english isn't my main language and i can't figure out what thy mean by it i have to ask...
what do they mean with the changes to Dair attacks from certain characters like Toon Link,Simon & Bayonetta etc..what exactly did they change about them?
can someone please explain it to me? because i really want to know! ^^''

Before the patch, using those Dairs after taking upward knockback would cause the character to somehow subtract the knockback's momentum from the Dair's downward momentum, causing them to descend much slower (or not at all in some cases), in most cases allowing the attack to go through its whole duration without reaching the floor. Now the moves will always function with their normal falling behavior even after taking an upward hit.

I'm interested in finding out how significant Ivysaur's sour Dair nerf was. Was it possibly significant enough that a sour hit through the ledge is no longer enough to kill most characters until much higher percent?

 

[Lacrimosa]

Zelda still untouched.
Wonder if she'll ever get hit with anything.

 

[EyeDonutz]

I have put up the changes to Piranha Plant's moves on SmashWiki, take the info from there. I am also updating other SmashWiki pages with information.

 

[Deleted member]

Zelda still untouched.
Wonder if she'll ever get hit with anything.

Zelda isn’t looking so hot. People in ven’s region are adapting to the Zelda matchup quite quickly. Mystearica isn’t as active as I would’ve hoped, not sure if there’ll be any breakthroughs. Without any beneficial updates, she will descend down the ranks, and it’s quite clear to me she isn’t making significant results at the moment.

 

[NuNero1]

As a Pit main, these buffs make me happy and it's terrific step in the right direction. After all, dsmash, bair and utilt are my bread and butter moves and have gotten me out of some tight situations time and time again. I was on the fence in trying out the Hero because of the all the hype, but it's well deserved, because I am loving this character and he will be one of my most played characters going forward. The Hero has a bit of a learning curve though, especially with the timing and execution of his spells and cursor menu. Looking forward to the challenge!

 

[Lacrimosa]

Zelda isn’t looking so hot. People in ven’s region are adapting to the Zelda matchup quite quickly. Mystearica isn’t as active as I would’ve hoped, not sure if there’ll be any breakthroughs. Without any beneficial updates, she will descend down the ranks, and it’s quite clear to me she isn’t making significant results at the moment.

I don't think that's about people adapting but rather about the player saying he doesn't feel well in general. At least according to the Twitter.

But hey, at least the time limit on the FS meter buffed her, right ?

 

[S_B]

Nice to see the change for Bowser's dair (and all dairs) but still sad to see nothing for KKR.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

On 's Back-Throw.
It now does 11% from 10%.

It now kills at the edge of FD at around 120%, same as 's Back-Throw.
They're both identical now.

 

[Firox]

Does anyone have any solid details on the online tournament mode? I've been hearing conflicting reports of the rules being FFA while others say that they're 2:30 minute, 2 stock, FD stages only rules. Can anyone confirm?

 

[Arthur97]

Does anyone have any solid details on the online tournament mode? I've been hearing conflicting reports of the rules being FFA while others say that they're 2:30 minute, 2 stock, FD stages only rules. Can anyone confirm?

It changes. Right now it's 1V1. Yesterday was FFA. I hope the thumbnails aren't recycled cause I don't want to have to look at the FFA one every time it comes up.

 

[Axioms]

I'll try to explain the Little Mac change.
There's 2 ways to do a Gentleman: either hold attack, or press attack 3 times.
Attack has to be held until f-15 for jab-2 to come out
Pressing attack on f-2 to f-3, f-3 to f-4, f-4 to f-5, f-5 to f-6, f-6 to f-7, f-7 to f-8, will not do jab-2
Pressing attack on f-8 to f-9, f-9 to f-10, f-10 to f-11, f-11 to f-12, f-12 to f-13, f-13 to f-14, or f-14 to f-15, will do jab-2 on f-16, faf-39
Pressing attack on f-15 to f-16, will do jab-2 on f-17, faf-40
Pressing attack on f-16 to f-17, will do jab-2 on f-18, faf-41
Pressing attack on f-17 to f-18, will do jab-2 on f-19, faf-42
Pressing attack on f-18 to f-19, will do jab-2 on f-20, faf-43
Pressing attack on f-19 to f-20, will do jab-2 on f-21, faf-44
Pressing attack on f-20 to f-21, will do jab-2 on f-22, faf-45
Pressing attack on f-21 to f-22, will do jab-2 on f-23, faf-46
Pressing attack on f-22 to f-23, will do jab-2 on f-24, faf-47
Pressing attack on f-23 to f-24, will do jab-2 on f-25, faf-48
Pressing attack on f-24 to f-25, will do jab-2 on f-26, faf-49
Pressing attack on f-25 to f-26, will do jab-2 on f-27, faf-50
Pressing attack on f-26 to f-27, will do jab-2 on f-28, faf-51
Pressing attack on f-27 to f-28, will do jab-2 on f-28, faf-51
Pressing attack on f-28 to f-29, will do jab-2 on f-29, faf-52
Pressing attack on f-29 to f-30, will do jab-2 on f-30, faf-53
Pressing attack on f-30 to f-31, will do jab-2 on f-31, faf-54
Pressing attack on f-31 to f-32, will do jab-2 on f-32, faf-55
Pressing attack on f-32 to f-33, will do jab-2 on f-33, faf-56
Pressing attack on f-33 to f-34, will do jab-2 on f-34, faf-57
Pressing attack on f-34 to f-35, will do jab-2 on f-35, faf-58
Pressing attack on f-35 to f-36, will do jab-2 on f-36, faf-59
Pressing attack on f-36 to f-37, will do jab-2 on f-37, faf-60
Pressing attack on f-37 to f-38, will do jab-2 on f-38, faf-61
Pressing attack on f-38 to f-39, will do jab-2 on f-39, faf-62
Pressing attack on f-39 to f-40, will do jab-2 on f-40, faf-63
Pressing attack on f-40 to f-41, will do jab-2 on f-41, faf-64
Pressing attack on f-41 to f-42, will not do jab-2 but do jab-1

Pressing attack on f-8 to f-9, nothing on f-9 to f-10, attack on f-10 to f-11, will do flurry on f-30
Pressing attack on f-8 to f-9, nothing on f-9 to f-15, attack on f-15 to f-16, will do flurry on f-30
Pressing attack on f-8 to f-9, nothing on f-9 to f-21, attack on f-21 to f-22, will do flurry on f-30
Pressing attack on f-8 to f-9, nothing on f-9 to f-25, attack on f-25 to f-26, will do flurry on f-30
Pressing attack on f-8 to f-9, nothing on f-9 to f-27, attack on f-27 to f-28, will do flurry on f-31
Pressing attack on f-8 to f-9, nothing on f-9 to f-28, attack on f-28 to f-29, will do flurry on f-32
Pressing attack on f-8 to f-9, nothing on f-9 to f-29, attack on f-29 to f-30, will do flurry on f-33
Pressing attack on f-8 to f-9, nothing on f-9 to f-30, attack on f-30 to f-31, will do jab-3 on f-34, faf-67
Pressing attack on f-8 to f-9, nothing on f-9 to f-31, attack on f-31 to f-32, will do jab-3 on f-35, faf-68
Pressing attack on f-8 to f-9, nothing on f-9 to f-32, attack on f-32 to f-33, will do jab-3 on f-36, faf-69
Pressing attack on f-8 to f-9, nothing on f-9 to f-33, attack on f-33 to f-34, will do jab-3 on f-37, faf-70
Pressing attack on f-8 to f-9, nothing on f-9 to f-34, attack on f-34 to f-35, will do jab-3 on f-38, faf-71
Pressing attack on f-8 to f-9, nothing on f-9 to f-35, attack on f-35 to f-36, will do jab-3 on f-39, faf-69
Pressing attack on f-8 to f-9, nothing on f-9 to f-36, attack on f-36 to f-37, will do jab-3 on f-41, faf-84

Attack has to be held until f-27 for jab-3 to come out
When holding attack, Jab-1 hits Frame-1, Jab-2 F-16, and Jab-3 F-31; LM's FAF is F-74
The change affects Jab-3, inputted by pressing attack.
Pressing attack on F-17 to F-18, f-18 to f-19, or f-19 to f-20 will not do jab-3
Pressing attack on F-20 to F-21, f-21 to f-22, f-22 to f-23, f-23 to f-24, f-24 to f-25, f-25 to f-26, or f-26 to f-27, will do jab-3 on f-31, faf-74
Pressing attack on f-27 to f-28, will do jab-3 on f-32, faf-75
Pressing attack on f-28 to f-29, will do jab-3 on f-33, faf-76
Pressing attack on f-29 to f-30, will do jab-3 on f-33, faf-66
Pressing attack on f-30 to f-31, will do jab-3 on f-34, faf-67
Pressing attack on f-31 to f-32, will do jab-3 on f-35, faf-68
Pressing attack on f-32 to f-33, will do jab-3 on f-36, faf-69
Pressing attack on f-33 to f-34, will do jab-3 on f-37, faf-70
Pressing attack on f-34 to f-35, will do jab-3 on f-38, faf-71
Pressing attack on f-35 to f-36, will do jab-3 on f-39, faf-69
Pressing attack on f-36 to f-37, will do jab-3 on f-41, faf-84
Pressing attack on f-37 to f-38, will do jab-3 on f-42, faf-85
Pressing attack on f-38 to f-39, will do jab-3 on f-42, faf-85
Pressing attack on f-39 to f-40, will do jab-3 on f-43, faf-86
Pressing attack on f-40 to f-41, will do jab-3 on f-44, faf-87
Pressing attack on f-41 to f-42, will do jab-3 on f-45, faf-88
Pressing attack on f-42 to f-43, will do jab-3 on f-46, faf-89
Pressing attack on f-43 to f-44, will do jab-3 on f-47, faf-90
Pressing attack on f-44 to f-45, will do jab-3 on f-48, faf-91
Pressing attack on f-45 to f-46, will do jab-3 on f-49, faf-92
Pressing attack on f-46 to f-47, will do jab-3 on f-50, faf-93
Pressing attack on f-47 to f-48, will do jab-3 on f-51, faf-94
Pressing attack on f-48 to f-49, will do jab-3 on f-52, faf-95
Pressing attack on f-49 to f-50, will do jab-3 on f-53, faf-96
Pressing attack on f-50 to f-51, will do jab-3 on f-54, faf-97
Pressing attack on f-51 to f-52, will do jab-3 on f-55, faf-98
Pressing attack on f-52 to f-53, will not do jab-3 but do jab-1

The parts highlighted in bold are the parts that have changed, they're now:
Pressing attack on f-8 to f-9, nothing on f-9 to f-30, attack on f-30 to f-31, will do jab-3 on f-35, faf-78
Pressing attack on f-8 to f-9, nothing on f-9 to f-31, attack on f-31 to f-32, will do jab-3 on f-36, faf-79
Pressing attack on f-8 to f-9, nothing on f-9 to f-32, attack on f-32 to f-33, will do jab-3 on f-37, faf-80
Pressing attack on f-8 to f-9, nothing on f-9 to f-33, attack on f-33 to f-34, will do jab-3 on f-38, faf-81
Pressing attack on f-8 to f-9, nothing on f-9 to f-34, attack on f-34 to f-35, will do jab-3 on f-39, faf-82
Pressing attack on f-8 to f-9, nothing on f-9 to f-35, attack on f-35 to f-36, will do jab-3 on f-40, faf-83
Pressing attack on f-29 to f-30, will do jab-3 on f-34, faf-77
Pressing attack on f-30 to f-31, will do jab-3 on f-35, faf-78
Pressing attack on f-31 to f-32, will do jab-3 on f-36, faf-79
Pressing attack on f-32 to f-33, will do jab-3 on f-37, faf-80
Pressing attack on f-33 to f-34, will do jab-3 on f-38, faf-81
Pressing attack on f-34 to f-35, will do jab-3 on f-39, faf-82
Pressing attack on f-35 to f-36, will do jab-3 on f-40, faf-83

So the changes can be defined as follows:
Pressing attack on Frame-13, f-14, f-15, f-16, f-17, f-18, and f-19 after hitting with Jab-2, will connect into Jab-3 1-Frame later
Jab-3 after pressing attack on Frame-13, f-14, f-15, f-16, f-17, f-18, and f-19 after hitting with Jab-2, has 11-Frames more endlag
shrooby

 

[shrooby]

shrooby

Spoiler: patch 4.0 changes

Mewtwo

• Usmash final hit now on frames 22-25 from 22-23. All other hits are on the same frames as before
• Dsmash total frames now 40 from 43
• Side B now grabs on 10 from 12, and all subsequent hits when successful occur two frames earlier as well.
  • Total frames when successful now 38 from 40.
  • Total frames on a miss now 42 from 44.
  • Reflects on frames 10-33 from 12-35
• Bthrow now deals 11.0 damage from 10,0

Pit

• Jab 1 startup now 4 from 5. Total frames now 25 from 26
• U-tilt total frames now 32 from 34
• B-Air landing lag now 8 from 11

Ivysaur

• Side B startup now 24 from 22.
  • Total frames now 48 from 46

Charizard

• F-Smash close hitbox now deals 19.0 damage from 17.0.
  • The far hitbox now deals 16.4 damage from 14.0
• N-air active hit frames now 8-20 from 8-19
  • landing lag now 10 from 13
• Couldn't find a difference in Side B's ledge snap. Still got 54.

Lucas

• Dash attack active hit frames now 13-17 from 13-15
• U-Smash full body invincibility now 1-7 from 1-4
• U-Air total frames now 31 from 33
• Side B landing lag now 19 from 22

PAC-MAN

• Fixed a bug on Neutral B where if he is caped during charge, a copy of the current fruit drops at his feet, allowing Mario to pick it up. Pac-Man will not lose his fruit charge and continue as normal.

Corrin

• Pin Jump is now 39 total frames from 45

Ridley

• U-Smash active hit frames now 12-17 from 12-16
• B-air now deals 16.0 damage from 15.0
• Side B manual release on the ground now 38 total frames from 41
  • Manual release when in the air now 38 total frames from 41
  • Automatic release when reaching a ledge total frames unchanged
• Up B startup when traveling straight up now 34 from 37.
  • When traveling left or right now 36 from 39
  • When traveling straight down now 37 from 40

Isabelle

• Jab hitstun on Mario at 0% now 20 from 18
• Side B grabs as early as 21 from 25.
  • Earliest you can reel in is 46 from 50
• Lloid Trap begins hitting on frame 9 of getting triggered from 11.

Piranha Plant

• U-tilt total frames now 28 from 31
• Side B cloud begins hitting on frame 11 from 13 from a charging state.
  • total frames of spewing now 35 from 38 from a charging state
  • A full charged cloud begins hitting on frame 21 from 23
  • total frames of full charged spew now 45 from 48
• Down B full charge hits on 69 from 80. In other words takes 11 frames less to reach max charge.
  • total frames on release when tipped over now 54 from 59
  • on hit endlag when tipped over now 44 from 49
  • Full charge total frames now 115 from 125
  • Full charge total frames now 120 from 135 when tipped over

Also there's one difference I can confirm regarding Training Mode's combo counter. In pre-patch I did an old test where I repeatedly used Squirtle's Ftilt on Mario at 0% and the game would register the hits as a combo even though Mario could pull up shield between them. In post-patch, it no longer counts as a combo. I know the issue was also observable with Mario's short hop double B-air, so the issue must have been related to moves with that sakurai angle.

Thank you for your huge help as always!

Do you have the numbers for Mii Brawler's Neutral Special 2?

 

[Methacrylate]

Ruben has put the data dump for the patch on his website now.

I checked for Corrin BKB changes on Fsmash.

BKB 35 > 40
BKB 35 > 45 (Tipper)

shrooby

 

[Axioms]

I don't have the pre-patch numbers so I'll refer you to https://ultimateframedata.com/mii_brawler.php
Flashing Mach Punch
Frame startup
15/18/21/24/27 (29/31/33/35/37/39/ 41/43/45/47/49/51/ 53/55/57/59/69)
107/59 Total Frames
Note: First total frames is when successful. Second is when you miss.
When successful, invincible on frame 15-37 and 60-73.
Landing any of the first five hits will activate the full version, but not on shields
0.4/9.5 Base Damage

Here's my post patch numbers:
Whiffed FAF is Frame-55
Contact FAF is Frame-129
Invincibility on Frame-11 to Frame-103, nothing on F-104
Damage is 0.4% for multihits, 9.5/11.4% for finisher
17.9/21.4%total
Hit 1 F-10
Hit 2 F-14
Hit 3 F-17
Hit 4 F-20
Hit 5 F-23
Hit 6 F-26
Hit 7 F-29
Hit 8 F-32
Hit 9 F-35
Hit 10 F-38
Hit 11 F-41
Hit 12 F-44
Hit 13 F-47
Hit 14 F-50
Hit 15 F-53
Hit 16 F-56
Hit 17 F-59
Hit 18 F-62
Hit 19 F-65
Hit 20 F-68
Hit 21 F-70
Hit 22 F-80
It seems ultimateframedata has the move data with freeze-frames subtracted, if I try to do the same I get this as result:
Hit 1 F-15>F-10
Hit 2 F-18>F-14
Hit 3 F-21>F-17
Hit 4 F-24>F-20
Hit 5 F-27>F-23+1ff
Hit 6 F-29>F-25+1ff
Hit 7 F-31>F-27+1ff
Hit 8 F-33>F-29+1ff
Hit 9 F-35>F-31+1ff
Hit 10 F-37>F-33+1ff
Hit 11 F-39>F-35+1ff
Hit 12 F-41>F-37+1ff
Hit 13 F-43>F-39+1ff
Hit 14 F-45>F-41+1ff
Hit 15 F-47>F-43+1ff
Hit 16 F-49>F-45+1ff
Hit 17 F-51>F-47+1ff
Hit 18 F-53>F-49+1ff
Hit 19 F-55>F-51+1ff
Hit 20 F-57>F-53+1ff
Hit 21 F-59>F-55
Hit 22 F-69>F-65+20ff
FAF-94
Keep in mind that frame 11 gives invincibility, but also seems to be a freeze-frame so I don't think I can really subtract it.
I don't think it's useful to have the frame data without freeze-frames as these are always present when using the move.
shrooby
Also, I just checked the patch notes thread and it says:
Charizard

• Forward Tilt: Decreased knockback

but nintendo's says:
Extended launch distance when hit in the high-damage range.
From what I understand this translates to "More knockback when hit with the sweetspot" so I think you've made a small error there

 

[$.A.F.]

I am really liking the buffs Plant got in 4.0.0. Dash attack can now kill at very high percentages if you just can’t kill your opponent and grants stage control way better. This move remember comes out only a frame slower than snake’s, launches plant’s whole body forward giving it great range, and can cross up. Poison having a damage cap when reflected really helps in our worst matchup that being villi even if we still get smoked. Also Poison coming out slightly faster and having better hit detection is somewhat helpful overall and very helpful for shield breaks. Speaking of Shield Breaking......down special is actually waaaay better. Not only does it charge significantly faster which is extremely helpful, it also does a lot more shield damage with a full one taking 80 % off a full shield. Especially factoring in Ptooie vs shields this is a godsend of a buff. Especially because of our shield break killing at literally 0 against everyone who isn’t a super heavy. I actually am so happy even if our issues weren’t really fixed.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Thank you for your huge help as always!

Do you have the numbers for Mii Brawler's Neutral Special 2?

Oh, I forgot him. Well I'm 100% sure that the move comes out five frames faster, now 10 startup from 15 on the first hit. And the other hits afterward are the same. There are other differences with the move I notice now, but were probably made in the 3.1 patch and I just never looked at it like them removing the weird gap in the move's invincibility when it is successful.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Looking back on it I think Zard's Nair buff was more significant then I originally believed.

Originally everyone was talking about the new combos and tech chase scenerios it set up, but while those were nice and all I don't think they were game changers. What no one was talking about though is that Nair's sour spot went from -9 to -6 on shield, making it way safer. Now a Jab can stuff out any OoS response that takes more then 10 frames (from 14) and shield any that take 6 or more. While this does not turn Zard into a crazy rushdown character it still does a lot to make his air to ground game safer, and the added combo ability is just a bonus.

I've not been playing Ultimate as much lately but I've used Jab to stuff out a few OoS options online already, so I'm optimistic about Nair's added practicality as a semi-safe neutral and landing tool.

 

[Axioms]

Zapp Branniglenn shrooby 5.0.0 patch notes are out
https://en-americas-support.nintendo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/47365

Common for All Fighters Basic Movements:
Previously, if you were in the air and held the shield button and input left, right, or down, and then continued to hold the shield button until you landed, you would dodge in the direction input upon landing.
Now, you will only dodge after landing if you input the direction after landing.

Common for All Fighters Basic Movements:
Adjusted the time until you can move again after grab parrying to be consistent.

Yoshi Basic Movements:
Made it so that you can grab using input buffering after dodging, like other fighters.

Peach Up Special:
Made it easier to hit multiple times.

Daisy Up Special:
Made it easier to hit multiple times.

Ice Climbers Basic Movements:
Restored Nana's ability to steal edge grabs.

Villager Up Smash Attack:
Buried opponents will now be shot up and hit multiple times.

Rosalina & Luma Other
Hero’s Snooze will no longer prevent Luma from being controlled, similar to other instances of sleep.

Joker Other:
Adjusted the time it takes to move again to match other fighters when bouncing while lying facedown.

Hero Neutral Special:
After Kafrizz hits a fighter or the stage and explodes, it can now be guarded against with a shield, reflected, or absorbed.
Hero Down Special:
Increased the amount of time opponents will be in the damage animation when hit at the beginning of Magic Burst.
Hero Other:
Adjusted the time it takes to move again to match other fighters when bouncing while lying facedown.

Item Smash Ball:
Slowed the movement speed and made it easier to hit with attacks.

There's not much I can test but here's initial findings:
Ver. 4.0.0
Mario's FAF of non-Tech face-down-landing in tumble is F-26 after hitting the ground
Hero's FAF of non-Tech face-down-landing in tumble is F-27 after hitting the ground
Joker's FAF of non-Tech face-down-landing in tumble is F-35 after hitting the ground
Mario's FAF of non-Tech face-up landing in tumble is F-26 after hitting the ground
Hero's FAF of non-Tech face-up landing in tumble is F-26 after hitting the ground
Joker's FAF of non-Tech face-up landing in tumble is F-26 after hitting the ground


Hero's Magic burst;
hits on F-1
has Freeze-frames from f-2 to f-6
has immobility from f-7 to f-9
hits with 2nd hit on f-10

When Mario parries Hero's Jab-1, Grab starts on f-19 after parry, grabs on f-24, D-throw starts on f-25, faf-64

 

[Kiligar]

Pretty disappointing honestly, there are many characters who needed rebalancing. It’s a “big” patch, and it looks very scarce.

 

[Rocketjay8]

Pretty disappointing honestly, there are many characters who needed rebalancing. It’s a “big” patch, and it looks very scarce.

I guess they didn't want to change much so close to the previous patch.