Parachute Parade! - GnW Social Discussion

[Vinnie]

I thought MK was -1, too but after watching Holy vs Vinnie I dunno. I know with confidence that Vinnie is a better player but Holy made Gdubs (as a character) look free.

Although I still sorta feel like it's +1 i'm gonna go with the visual proof. Squirtle could be +1 i pulled that matchup outta my ***. But I don't think he has anything other than his speed to deal with our range and huge hitboxes, edgeguarding should be easy I assume since he can't really do anything against slowfall dair offstage or Nair at all. And then he's as light as we are so he dies early. And his Up-B is uber easy to DI outta and Uair for a punish. But I could be wrong since that's all theory. Gonna hit the sack

I lost the first stock by a good amount, and then frigate ate me at like 12. How is this an accurate display of this MU?

 

[Patches]

I lost the first stock by a good amount, and then frigate ate me at like 12. How is this an accurate display of this MU?

Om nom nom nom

But yeah. This

 

[Vinnie]

The first time I ever beat Mew2king, I was up 2-1 and I won game 4 with . Some people say that I only beat him because BS and grabbing, but I also beat him with . I've 2 stocked him with on more than 1 occasion. 1 match of me vs Holy, on my personal worst stage, doesn't decide anything.

 

[UTDZac]

I think Vinnie is only a good G&W because he plays ICs.

Just saying

 

[Gardex]

Both ICs and G&W seem to struggle against mostly the same characters, when I think about it.
So it's not like they're covering eachothers' bad matchups.
What they do, however, is that one covers the other one's bad stages.

 

[-LzR-]

Now I'm interested Gardex, who exactly do both of those characters lose to? I can't name a single one.

 

[SFA Smiley]

Don't get me wrong, I know Vinnie wasn't playing particularly great, I watched his match vs M2K and I know Holy is really good. But, these were all guts feeling I had at 5am. I still really think it's +1, just didn't know if I was being crazy or not. Glad to know others feel the same way I do =)

 

[SFA Smiley]

Ice Climbers, it's not so much they lose, but those characters aren't really free wins. ICs goes even/ only slightly beats a lot of the higher tier characters right?

 

[Gardex]

Now I'm interested Gardex, who exactly do both of those characters lose to? I can't name a single one.

Diddy, Snake, Metaknight and arguably Marth.

You could probably throw in chars like ZSS and Wario, but they aren't really bad matchups for both ICs and G&W

 

[Rizen]

G&W vs Link is +2G&W. Unless Link plays extremely smart G&W will find opportunities to punish him. Get Link offstage at any % and you have a good chance of easily gimping him.
Link can live forever but G&W's great intercepting and recovery shuts that down. Link's ground game beats G&W because Link's reach but G&W jumps circles around Link's air mobility. Link has less power but G&W's lighter.
Link's advantages are: better reach, better spamming that can't be bucketed, bombs/Zair beat every attack G&W has (except the invulnerable part of UpB and Uair from below), Faster KO moves, weight, versatility.
G&W's pros: Faster attacks in general, MUCH more mobile and fast in the air, devastating offstage game, great punishing options, good damage racker, harder to punish unless G&W is being stupid, power, can spam attacks (Bair/Nair/Dtilt etc), attacks eat arrows and boomerang, no easy-killed situations and does well anywhere Link does well and can CP stages for a bigger advantage.

 

[Gardex]

I just noticed something

Overall Spread (Hardest to Easiest)

-2 = MK/Marth, Diddy

What is this I don't even

 

[SFA Smiley]

Yeah I think i'm the only one that feels Link does so well against us. And in the new Unity ruleset we lose RC and Brinstar so i dunno. However I do feel (always have felt actually) Like Link's camping is decent. It's his characteristics that make him terrible (And I'm also pretty sure this is true.) I think he's our easiest +1 sorta on the border of +1 and +2. I'd think it'd be a definite +2 if he didn't have Zair.

 

[SFA Smiley]

I just noticed something

What is this I don't even

Which part, Diddy being Easier than Marth?

 

[Gardex]

Metaknight = Marth > Diddy

Holy sure gave you a powerful influence at 5am, didn't he? B)

 

[SFA Smiley]

lmao. I was just trying to be... "realistic?"

 

[-LzR-]

Diddy, Snake, Metaknight and arguably Marth.

You could probably throw in chars like ZSS and Wario, but they aren't really bad matchups for both ICs and G&W

ICs are said to be at least even with Diddy, Snake and Marth and also Wario.
MK is obv and I'd agree with ZSS.

 

[SFA Smiley]

ZSS does well against ICs?

 

[Gardex]

ICs are said to be at least even with Diddy, Snake and Marth and also Wario.
MK is obv and I'd agree with ZSS.

Marth - Hence the "Arguably". It's probably even, but if anything, Marth has the adv.

Wario - Yes Wario is even with ICs. He's also evenish with G&W.

Snake - Snake even with ICs? What is this I don't even

Diddy - I would say that Diddy has the edge here. I've only seen Diddy lose the MU once, which was during that period when Vinnie was beasting absolutely everyone.

Don't follow the SWF MU chart too much; it's full of weird ****.
I can't wrap my head around ICs/Snake being even unless the ICs have TAS-like control.

@Smiley Yeah, a lot of random characters do decently against ICs. Like Yoshi and Ike...

 

[SFA Smiley]

lol screw the SWF Chart (Although it's not too bad this time around) I'd rather just get you guyses opinions on stuff.

I usually use Peach for ICs.

 

[-LzR-]

Snake - Snake even with ICs? What is this I don't even

DeLux namesearch, explain the MU pl0x.

Don't follow the SWF MU chart too much; it's full of weird ****.

I haven't even looked at the chart lol

I can't wrap my head around ICs/Snake being even unless the ICs have TAS-like control.

This ain't 08 bro.

 

[Gardex]

I'd rather take Ally's word for it than DeLux. He claims that it's clearly in Snake's advantage, and if all the videos I've seen on youtube are a clue, then he's right.
Especially after his performance in the MU at Revival of Salt. He styled on Vinnie, sadly enough.

 

[Dexident]

I would second the notion that link has a good match up against G W.

His unbucketable projectors are more than enough to be really good camping material especially against someone who is used to the match up.

His up smash is also somewhat devastating.

 

[Alphicans]

Gardex, Ally was playing extremely well in that set, and although it was decisive, the matches were close as ****. Most ICs maintain it's even, and watching 9B style on snakes in japan reinforces that idea in my head too.

The SWF chart is pretty damn good, why would you say otherwise? Compared to some of the **** I see on every character board there is no comparison.

 

[Ruuku]

Hey G&W players, I'm teaming w/ AML who a PR player in GA for the Salt Mines tournament. Any tips for a G&W/Pit team? Thanks.

You should pay attention to Pit grabbing your opponents since he can land lots of them with jabs. Pit also has a number of moves that hit multiple times. Look out for this sort of thing so you can step in and add damage or K.O.

 

[SFA Smiley]

Gardex, Ally was playing extremely well in that set, and although it was decisive, the matches were close as ****. Most ICs maintain it's even, and watching 9B style on snakes in japan reinforces that idea in my head too.

The SWF chart is pretty damn good, why would you say otherwise? Compared to some of the **** I see on every character board there is no comparison.

Uh oh we offended the GW panel leader

Lol I kid. The list is pretty good

 

[KaptainKrunch]

Why is Fox vs G&W even?

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Hey you guys can give my friend AML some critique: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXdkiFezfCY

 

[Gardex]

Gardex, Ally was playing extremely well in that set, and although it was decisive, the matches were close as ****. Most ICs maintain it's even, and watching 9B style on snakes in japan reinforces that idea in my head too.

The SWF chart is pretty damn good, why would you say otherwise? Compared to some of the **** I see on every character board there is no comparison.

Yes it is good for the most part, but following it and nothing else will eventually lead you to listing a MU number that is ********.

If it was perfect then it wouldn't have had tons of disagreeing people since the day it was made public.

I haven't seen 9B play too many Snakes, but the snakes have been the ones stomping on 9B most of the time(The exceptions being Souther and Hiko)


MK IS -1

SNAKE BEATS ICS

WE'RE NOT DISCUSSING G&W ON THE G&W BOARDS

I HATE YOU ALL FOR NEVER GIVING MY VIDEOS FEEDBACK BECAUSE A GUY WHO NEVER POSTS PUTS UP HIS ONE FRIENDLY MATCH

THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS

UTDZAC IS AWESOME, BUT I'M BETTER AT DUELIST

THAT DRESS MAKES YOU LOOK FAT

G&W IS THE ONLY REAL BLACK MAN IN BRAWL

dip

 

[DeLux]

I think it's close to even or Snake slightly winning, but what do I know, I'm FreeLux

 

[Patches]

Name searching never fails tho.

 

[UTDZac]

woah woah woah woah...

I do not lose at duelist. Never have. Never will.

 

[Gardex]

Me neither.

It's not impossible that I'm visiting the States this year(or early 2013).
You know what we have to do if I'm coming..

 

[UTDZac]

Yes sir, I know exactly what we have to do.

 

[Alphicans]

The music gets me every time

 

[SFA Smiley]

Yes it is good for the most part, but following it and nothing else will eventually lead you to listing a MU number that is ********.

Hey! I don't follow that chart... too much. I already have my opinions on matchups so I never really look at it. It's good for those who don't feel like they understand the character though. I feel like I do so i make my own. I'll use it for other characters though.

And in my defense I never critique because I suck at it.

@Gadiel: Yeah i'll critique probably tonight when I get off, i just woke up and leave for work in an hour.

@Zac: LOL, never noticed the link. When I tell people about high level game and watch play I pull up this vid and they never know i'm joking for some reason

 

[Gardex]

Wasn't directed towards you at all, Smiley. I was talking about it in general.

And in my defense I never critique because I suck at it.

@Gadiel: Yeah i'll critique probably tonight when I get off, i just woke up and leave for work in an hour.

 

[SFA Smiley]

Wasn't directed towards you at all, Smiley. I was talking about it in general.

LMAO. Wow ok I guess you have a point. I DO suck at critiquing though.

 

[Dexident]

Hey you guys can give my friend AML some critique: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXdkiFezfCY

Well pretty good technique in most areas, decent reads here and there.

But clearly the glaring error I saw was that he never used the bucket even once against what was an extremely campy Luigi. In fact the Luigi was using the fact that he knew he wouldn't use the bucket as an advantage.

 

[-LzR-]

Gardex, link your stuff again, too lazy to check the thread now. I might be able to find something.

 

[sambo400]

Doubles tournament on sunday. Me and my partner are the defending champs here at my college, but we have only played melee for the past few months. So the game plan is I hide and tank stock while he ***** with MK. I'm gonna be so bad lol.