Parachute Parade! - GnW Social Discussion

[sambo400]

Stop playing mainstream games and get back to Brawl >: (

I've been playing Melee lately. I kinda bored with brawl atm. Plus I'm going to miss the next tournament because of MLG.

 

[Triforce Of Chozo]

Analyzing the game that was happening in my dream lol
And what I typed is literally all I remember from that part of the dream.

 

[SFA Smiley]

You guys will enjoy this match. At least the second stock. (the whole set didn't go like this match mind you)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m06cjTwEzO0&feature=related

But yeah I recently uploaded a few things with a few of my characters. Ill post in the video thread in the morning. It's a lot of matches and I'm sure nobody will want to watch all of them but i'll have little captions next to the links so you can pick and choose. It's no Alph or Zac but it's still Gdubs.

 

[UTDZac]

Omg that combo.

Nair > Utilt is whack!

 

[Alphicans]

Wow you styled all over that snake!

Last hit nair to utilt to nair to judegment is ridiculous. I am definitely going to use that if I can.

 

[PentaSalia]

nair into utilt is legit!!!!, i do it all the time :T

>serious

edit: LOL killing snake at 80, props.

 

[SFA Smiley]

Thanks. Looking at it now he died at like 60 (lol) because he DI'd the fsmash up on the top platorm. I may be able to use that to my advantage when playing certain people actually.

 

[Rizen]

Q What's the Jigglypuff MU?
It's an MU I almost never play and she(?) keeps surprising me with airspeed attack reach and power. I don't know how to space her.
What are good stages to pick? Jigg's sharking's weird; she moves sideways so fast.

 

[Triforce Of Chozo]

Use neutral air
Win

 

[SFA Smiley]

Jiggs is our best matchup.

 

[Rizen]

^But I have almost no Jiggs experience, none with G&W except 1 match where I won (but played poorly) on SV then lost to her sharking and surprise Fairs on Brin. Her movement and attack reach surprises me a lot :[ . I need to know how to space her and good stages. I'm better vs Marth than Jiggs .

 

[Triforce Of Chozo]

Okay, so Jiggs is actually really hard if they are good and play gay. What you need to look at is their movement and attack patterns. Once you can more or less predict when they are going to attack/run/whatever, then you can begin to punish. If they try to come at you with pound, dtilt beats it. Dtilt's hitbox is a giant circle that goes up above where your hurtboxes are, and well below that too, so it's a surprisingly effective anti-air against horizontal approaches. For everything else, UpB or Nair. Landing smashes is the hardest part, because of Jigglypuff's wicked air speed. Just play patient, you'll eventually catch them with something if you play really safe and manage to frustrate them into committing too hard on an approach. Also don't be afraid to kill with fair if you can make a good read to hit with it, but be careful because if you miss Jiggs will punish you with fair or pound.
That's my experience in the MU, let me know if any of it helps.

Edit: bucket brake never die jiggs can't kill you gg

 

[Dexident]

You guys will enjoy this match. At least the second stock. (the whole set didn't go like this match mind you)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m06cjTwEzO0&feature=related

But yeah I recently uploaded a few things with a few of my characters. Ill post in the video thread in the morning. It's a lot of matches and I'm sure nobody will want to watch all of them but i'll have little captions next to the links so you can pick and choose. It's no Alph or Zac but it's still Gdubs.

Oh my gawsh.

Seriously that combo was probably one of the coolest I have ever seen.

Definitely going to have to get it a whirl!

 

[KaptainKrunch]

Anyone have tasty ZSS MU knowledge that'd like to share? Her U-Air is eating my aerial game.

 

[Rizen]

^
Her Dsmash can be bucketed.
ZSS is best at mid range and G&W has no long range attacks so pressure her close.
Her tether grab WILL grab out of the air so be careful she doesn't grab you out of parachute if you don't have your 2nd jump; she can do that no pummel grab release trick.
Edge hogging at the right time (so your invulnerability frames stop her flip-jump from hitting or grabbing the ledge, same goes for tethers) can gimp her if she's launched at a low angle. G&W's sour Dsmash can do this.
ZSS's legs become disjointed during most of her attacks. Her whip is too and its hitbubble for specials is its tip.
Don't be above her. She's really good at chaining attacks and juggling so reset the situation if she gets the upper hand. G&W's UpB is good for escaping.

IDK many G&W specific tips. 'Hope that helps.

 

[overgamer]

shield a lot, bait and crouch her grabs, and punish with anything.
Uair is anoying to deal with as it can beat Dair depending on the spacing, so I would avoid being above her as much as posible.

 

[-LzR-]

From my experience, limit escaping with upB since she is amazing at punishing it on reaction.
Also don't expect to gimp her, but try to rack as much damage offstage as you can.

 

[Sylarius]

You can duck under ZSS's grab, I've done it before
/useless information

 

[Patches]

I actually didn't know you could do that... I find this very helpful. :3

Any tips for the Marth MU? Or Diddy? They seem to be my problem match ups.

 

[Rizen]

From my experience, limit escaping with upB since she is amazing at punishing it on reaction.

My bad.

You can duck under ZSS's grab, I've done it before
/useless information

ZSS's grab is different from other tether grabs. The tether grab bubble (always at the tip) doesn't move in a strait sideways line, it waves up and down with the animation. So it's possible to duck but it might still catch you if you're spaced where it curves down. All tether grabs have a grab bubble at the character's hand too, that will grab you if you're really close.

PS Exceptions include Olimar who can't grab characters from the air and his only grab bubble is the Pikmin running out. Yoshi can air grab from his mouth or the tip of his tongue but his dash grab only has a tongue grab bubble. IIRC Lucas only grabs with the head of his snake and can't air grab.

Edit
Marth IDK
Diddy- platforms mess up his banana chaining game. We out-reach him but he's annoyingly fast (a little like squirtle). DI his Fsmash behind him and Usmash up and out. Learn banana tricks like glide tossing (or whatever) and instant throwing. Banana's transcend G&W's disjointed attacks (or anyone's). Diddys like to play mindgames with mixing up banana throws and forwardBs (which can grab or kick you).

 

[Triforce Of Chozo]

Crouching is useful in a few MUs, most notably the Samus one, since you can duck under zair and super missiles. Also Falco's and Fox's lasers. Also D3's waddle doos and dees and sometimes gordos. It's really just a troll thing to do and one more reason G&W is the best.

 

[KaptainKrunch]

Thanks for the tips, I'll try shielding more, and ducking if they go for the grab, haha.

 

[-LzR-]

For Marth: Do what you usually do against Marth. Try to find a pattern in his spacing. Is it double fair, late fair, early fair or empty hop or so on. Depending on his options, you might be able to fair or grab or nair. After you get in, try to bait an upB for an early kill. That's all you can do IMO since Marth is damn good.

For Diddy: When he has 2 bananas, jump around platforms until he tries to throw one or loses one. Then you try to get in. Glidetoss into usmash is amazing.

That's all I know sorry >_>

 

[Rizen]

Q:
My Dthrow spiked Fox for a kill on the edge of Picto. Would this always happen at the very edge of a slanted platform if they land on the outside or is it another freak DI glitch that won't repeat?
http://youtu.be/J3yMJLswj_M
If it repeats we have one less teck-chase direction to worry about for Dthrows on slanted ledges.

 

[-LzR-]

Dthrow sends opponent down. Fox went down but there was no floor so he died. Dthrow is a spike, but is rarely useful as such since there is almost always ground below you. Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[SFA Smiley]

Dthrow is a spike.

And yeah it's not really reliable since the opponent can just DI towards the stage

Glidetoss Grab diddy at the edge and Dthrow = Funny

But yeah this can happen on any stage

 

[Patches]

helpful tips are helpful. Thanks guys. <3

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Hey G&W players, I'm teaming w/ AML who a PR player in GA for the Salt Mines tournament. Any tips for a G&W/Pit team? Thanks.

 

[-LzR-]

Bucket stuff obviously. And uair Pit when he recovers too. That's pretty much all I know about Pit...
Also let G&W handle the killing, you do the damage. You can shoot arrows to combo into his smashes and you can do the same with grabs. Try to kill as early as possible, G&W is a beast at killing when it comes doubles.

 

[SFA Smiley]

Uair cancels all momentum so if you're at high percents GW can kinda hover around you and spam Uair and you will basically bucket brake when you hit the windbox if you're on your way to getting KO'd. UThrow has a fairly reliable trajectory so if you are near him and he gets a grab let him know to throw upwards so you can always take advantage of it with a Bair or something. Bucket Stuff obviously, Pit and GW have a REALLY good bucket, just make sure you fully charge the arrows. Make sure he knows you can bucket out of dthrow on a lot of characters as long as you predict the direction correctly. Certain characters with crappy tech rolls will get hit even out of their roll (This is **** on Pika). I'm not sure how comfortable he is with his Up-B windboxes but they are sweet in doubles because it allows him to save you and still reliably recover himself. Get used to getting randomly Uair'd. I do it all the time without warning for my teammate because i may see something he doesn't see or to help him land safely or even just reset a potentially dangerous situation for my team mate.

This is just theorycraft but I can see you doing work on someone's shield if you side-b while he's turtling someone... You should test that out in training it might be legit.

I dunno what else. GW is just really good doubles you should do decently as long as you both play well. GW's Dair is **** in doubles because there's usually too much going on for the opponent to pay attention to punishing it correctly especially with another person harassing. It sounds pretty bad but seriously Up-B and Dair will get GW really far in doubles. obviously don't just spam that but dair levels up in teams =)

And don't focus on Bucket tactics the whole time. You'll lose. Just REMEMBER it's very easy to forget that everytime you're safe to do it bucket.

And try to get replays too so we can see AML in action... and so we'll have something to watch... nobody uses this character, videos are hard to find =/

 

[SFA Smiley]

How do you guys feel about my Matchup opinions. It only took me like 20 minutes so I didn't think about them too hard, I sorta went with gut feelings. Lemme know where i went stupid or ask me why i feel certain ways about some. I didn't base all this on my own experience and it's mostly stuff that i've observed or "seems" like it'd be that way. Just trying to start some discussion.

GW's Matchups

MK/-2

Diddy/-2
Snake/-1
Falco/-1

Marth/-2
Wario/+1
Ice Climbers/-3
Olimar/-1
Pika/+1

Lucario/+1
D3/0
ZSS/0
GW/0
Toon Link/0 (Maybe -1)

Fox/0
Wolf/0
Peach/+1 (maybe Even)
DK/+1 (Maybe Even)
Kirby/+2
ROB/+1
Pit/+1
Sonic/Dunno. My opinion is +1 but possibly even
Ike/+1 (possibly even)
Shielda/+2
Luigi/+2
Shiek/My opinion is +2 (Possibly +1)
Ness/+2
Yoshi/+2
PT/+2 (Possibly +3 [Squirtle +2, Ivysaur +3, Charizard +2])

Lucas/+1
Mario/+2 (Possibly +3 but I don't think so)
Bowser/+2
Samus/Dunno. I think +2 though.
Falcon/+3
Link/+1
Jiggs/+3
Zelda/+2 (Maybe +3 but I think +2)
Ganon/+2

Overall Spread (Hardest to Easiest)
-3 = ICs
-2 = MK/Marth, Diddy
-1 = Olimar, Falco/Snake
0 = Fox, D3/Wolf, Toon Link/GW/ZSS (I feel that these matchups are very even and balanced.)
+1 = Ike, Lucario/Peach, Wario/Pika, Sonic/DK, Pit, Lucas,ROB, Link
+2 = Sheik, Shielda, Yoshi, Ness, Luigi/Bowser, Kirby, PT, Mario, Zelda/Ganon
+3 = Falcon, Jiggs

Differences from the official list:
Toon Link and ZSS are -1
Kirby, Luigi, Sheik, Sheilda, and Yoshi are +1
Falcon and Lucas are +2
Ganon the Manon and Zelda are +3
Jiggs is +4

EDIT: Oh yeah , Yoshi is definitely +1 IMO, wasn't thinking

 

[Patches]

IMO.. I think MK is -1, TL and ZSS are also -1.

Then again, I don't have much TL experience, but and I have a bit of ZSS experience. But TL can really camp us out, where a ZSS can really out range us.

But we can bucket ZSS... I dunno. Maybe it's even.

I think I just have a biased toward campy characters.

Also, I feel that squirtle is +1 after playing apostl for quite a while before RoS

 

[-LzR-]

I could say I am biased since I tend to think Snake and Falco are both even.
I think Wario is our most even MU.

 

[Patches]

Honestly, I think snake is harder than ICs

 

[-LzR-]

He is not. We are among the best when it comes to ****** Snake in the air and offstage. We can also kill him very early if we are given the chance. Not many characters have that. And we can escape his traps simply by pressing upB which also gives us another great option out of his Dthrow. I don't see why we would lose to Snake.

 

[Patches]

Lmfao. I dunno why I said my last post. Disregard that. XD I'm not thinking. In my opinion I think snake is difficult, but not harder than ICs. I just don't like how strong his tilts are. And the range on his damn utilt.

 

[SFA Smiley]

IMO.. I think MK is -1, TL and ZSS are also -1.

Then again, I don't have much TL experience, but and I have a bit of ZSS experience. But TL can really camp us out, where a ZSS can really out range us.

But we can bucket ZSS... I dunno. Maybe it's even.

I think I just have a biased toward campy characters.

Also, I feel that squirtle is +1 after playing apostl for quite a while before RoS

I thought MK was -1, too but after watching Holy vs Vinnie I dunno. I know with confidence that Vinnie is a better player but Holy made Gdubs (as a character) look free.

Although I still sorta feel like it's +1 i'm gonna go with the visual proof. Squirtle could be +1 i pulled that matchup outta my ***. But I don't think he has anything other than his speed to deal with our range and huge hitboxes, edgeguarding should be easy I assume since he can't really do anything against slowfall dair offstage or Nair at all. And then he's as light as we are so he dies early. And his Up-B is uber easy to DI outta and Uair for a punish. But I could be wrong since that's all theory. Gonna hit the sack

 

[SFA Smiley]

Yeah. I just watch snake and capitalize on when he's setting up. I never let him set up I go aggro as he's trying because that's when he's vulnerable. I wait until he's trying to set/explode C4 and pop him into the air and start juggles. NEVER get into footsie battles with Snake you WILL lose. We can't take him up close just back off and wait for him to start setting up. DONT be afraid when he's setting up, snakes are used to people backing away so if you get in his business they get overwhelmed by your mobility and superior air game. If you hit a grenade and you both pop up you have to nair/bair fast before he can pull out any of his lame aerials and then keep him in the air. We lose because of the weight difference, that's really it. We're both harder hitters but he's still heavy and we aren't

 

[Patches]

Don't count vinnie out. Holy is MAD good. Hes been ****** our region for a long time, and has a lot of GaW experience from playing me, an Ambrose. Not to mention he's gone into the states a few times and ***** faces down there.

 

[Gardex]

I thought MK was -1, too but after watching Holy vs Vinnie I dunno. I know with confidence that Vinnie is a better player but Holy made Gdubs (as a character) look free.

You're changing your opinion after watching a single match where he SD'd and then gave up?
Not to mention that his G&W seemed really subpar to what we're used to see.
Why not base it off of his sets with M2K where he has gone toe to toe?

-1 IMO

A frustrating MU on MK's part because he can't afford to make mistakes.