Paper Mario Mafia: Day 4 finally ends! Luigi wins!

[#HBC | J]

Can you rephrase the statement directed at me because I don't understand.

@Frozen: Yeah, his reads are important and I do value them because they strangely give another perspective on people that I just do not have and there is like no way I am considering Seph as scum at this point in the game. It's just he hasn't really explained his scum-reads that well in terms of why they should be lynched and spent more time explaining his town-reads, which had minimalistic information to give out. I guess I want more from someone who is pretty easily townie in my book. Especially when they have a scum-read on me for a while.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

It was just an addition to your statement that the phrase "tunneling my ***" is not the only thing that can't be used in IRL mafia because people won't understand it.

 

[frozenmarsh751]

Marshy, if nobody else votes Rajam within the next day or so, I will vote him.

 

[#HBC | J]

Ah, I just didn't get that part of it. ;P

Okay now you want me to get into why we are lynching Rajam? Well there are a couple of boons to lynching Rajam that I see when talking about other players and the way I feel about them. I feel more strongly that Sang/John are more likely to be town over people like Kary and Rajam.

Rajam hasn't done much of anything this game and I don't really get why you feel so strongly about Rajam being town. (Nor why Seph does but that's just another case to deal with) Most of what he has stated is purely null and the fact is, if he does happen to be town and we were wrong, then his info is still there and can help us in the long run to decipher which of Sang/John/Kary holds the final scum. (The only other player I can see myself throwing back into that pile from my "Don't touch" is Chibo and even then I highly doubt we will have to get to that point in the game)

Rajam has been useless this game-phase and hasn't even helped that much because he is still trying to catch up and provide insight that has either:

A.) Already been discussed or
B.) Is no longer relevant.

Plus Rajam has had multiple times to post in the thread and also do something to combat the suspicion on him like you have done but he hasn't which is a big problem for me considering I continuously see him here viewing and especially when the wagon was beginning to build up on him.

Rajam in the end is a liability to put it bluntly because there is very little he can offer in terms of salvaging his slot from this lynch that will most likely occur even if it is at a later date.

In terms of scummiest, he only comes up second though and the first place person for my scum-reads is Kary by far. You have highlighted pretty much all the things I have been saying about Kary but summed up in a more concise version which is rekindling my dislike for that slot and kindling more of a like for your slot. However there are a few questions I had when talking about that post:

Can you specifically point out how your John read dropped dramatically? Can you also point out how your Rajam read is so strong when compared to others especially when other players feel he is scummier?

 

[frozenmarsh751]

so basically

rajam gets ****ed outta hear

followed by kary hardbody son

 

[#HBC | J]

Actually yes, that's exactly what I was beginning to type up haha.

I'm not tired, I'm probably going to be giving my thoughts on everyone in the game to try and kick-start it more and give more of my thoughts if I do die during the night just in case which should be enough to close the deal on this game.

 

[John2k4]

Sounds good Marshtomp. When's that lynch, mang?

J - Man you changed your avatar again. The one with the coffee grounds was the better one.

 

[#HBC | J]

That wasn't coffee grounds, that was Bugs on top of honey on her hands. I couldn't unsee the nasitiness and this one I actually like more. (Sang sized it for me) This one makes me smile.

@Sang: What I wanna sum up at the end of this is that you seem to want Kary gone more and I totally feel you on that one. The thing is, if Rajam does not flip scum, Kary will be lynched toMorrow if not Quicklynched because his time in this game will have been far too long. One of myself or Fmarsh will make sure of it and probably even do it without letting him claim that "not-so-soft PR claim" he has had prepared since he originally got pressured D1. So if you join us in lynching Rajam toDay, you will still more than likely get what you want toMorrow if it falls through toDay.

That's what marshy is trying to get at with you in terms of getting you to vote Rajam.

@John: You looking at Kary with the rest of us correct? Do you still have that suspicion of Chibo?

 

[frozenmarsh751]

The thing is, if Rajam does not flip scum, Kary will be lynched toMorrow if not Quicklynched because his time in this game will have been far too long. One of myself or Fmarsh will make sure of it and probably even do it without letting him claim that "not-so-soft PR claim" he has had prepared since he originally got pressured D1. So if you join us in lynching Rajam toDay, you will still more than likely get what you want toMorrow if it falls through toDay.

That's what marshy is trying to get at with you in terms of getting you to vote Rajam.

j is pretty much my translator in mafia

you have my word

 

[John2k4]

Yes on both counts.

 

[#HBC | J]

Dude, I was just saying I feel like Marshy is more me in a much more concise/brash/short version while I can feel what Marshy is saying in a more largesse/wordful/nicer way.

Can you get at me with your Pierce/Chibo "weird stuff" vibe?

@John: I still am not getting why you find Chibo suspicious because it seems to be more rooted in the fact that he finds you scummy.

 

[John2k4]

Chibo's like a very small feeling by now. It was a mix of OMGUS/Missing/Just Chibo Hate for a while. I need to read just his posts again to get a final stance.

Doesn't help that he's still been like, not here. >.>

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Can you specifically point out how your John read dropped dramatically? Can you also point out how your Rajam read is so strong when compared to others especially when other players feel he is scummier?

It didn't drop dramatically; it only dropped a little bit. I never had John as a stronger scum read than Kary. I was simply focusing on John more to get a better read on him, and to see who jumped onto him immediately or who made certain reactions towards it. When I went back to read him again, I noticed that some of his posts pointed out some pretty good things. The rest of it still makes me think he could be scum, but that little bit made me question my read a bit. My Rajam read isn't extremely strong (it's a leaning town read), but I don't necessarily see the scumminess behind it. I see him as a liability, yes, but he's made some useful posts and has been scum-hunting. He seems very pro-town to me.

Regardless, thank you. I think I can see where you're coming from now. I'll vote him tomorrow before I leave to go anywhere. I want to give people a bit more time to get back in here and catch up or to put their two cents in, as much as I know you hate it, Marshy.

 

[#HBC | J]

Well he did explain that he was at a convention/tournment for the weekend, so ya gotta be fair on that part. ;P

Marshy translate this post if I am not here later in the game:

 

[frozenmarsh751]

gotcho back like chiroprac

 

[Pierce7d]

@Pierce & @Bardull: Can you answer this for me please?

I think John's avoidence of questioning, etc, etc is scummy. The rest is null because I'm not going to say, "Oh, you obviously don't care about dying and hence must be town." Never will I clear scum on noob play.

 

[Pierce7d]

Also, not okay with letting John live 2 more days.
Then again, not okay with letting Kary live two more days either.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

I think, at the moment, Kary is my strongest scum read. There are a lot of his posts that I don't like. He posts a lot of loaded questions that are full of WIFOM and aren't of any help to Town. He continues gambits long past the point that they are usefu, and then they just become distracting. All of his D1 play seems to have been focused on Bardull, even though for a long time he continued to flip-flop between not having a scum read on Bardull and having a scum read on him. He has actively OMGUS'd (like his Rajam vote a bit ago, which he has yet to deny was OMGUS). He misreads a lot of posts (which isn't necessarily scummy, but shows that he isn't really paying attention). I don't like his 380 where he made a post against Bardull because of OS and then gets angry and uses that bit to defend himself. I think the only thing that makes me not think he is scum is his not-so-soft power role claim, which kind of just seems like another gambit.

so you don't like my posts... and I'm misreading things?
and the only thing that makes me seem town is a softclaim?

Well, w/e. I'm trying to scumhunt and, I hoped you could see that. I think that you are confusing a dislike of my play with a scumread; you seem to be focusing a lot on my actions and not so much on why I might be doing them. But anyhow, let me clear some things up for you;
I had a scum lean on Bardull yesterday, and it remained a scum lean pretty much throughout the Day, and was my only notable scumread. My point was that I didn't have a solid read on Bardull and wasn't necessarily prepared to lynch him off of it.
My vote on Rajam isn't OMGUS; not least because I argued that he's not done anything pro-town and that his case on me is more or less made up. Beyond this, I wanted to try and force a response from Rajam, and see how you/John would react to this waggon.
As to me misreading posts... I don't know where you got that impression.

I really need to point out that
a) you didn't bring any of this up earlier, and
b) that you haven't asked about any of it/pushed me at all today
This doesn't make it any less valid, but I think we have to bear it in mind.
The good news is it lets me get a better read on you.

Sang, please talk to me about why when you were on the chopping block you wanted everyone to look at John, but didn't mention me? At that point, did you have myself or John as a stronger scumread? My apologies for the loaded-ness of these questions.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

EBWOP: Just seen Sang's latest post, scratch my very last question.

@Kary, do you still have that suspicion on J from your 874? Give me your read on J thus far, if it's different. Another thing: what happened to your reads from 1420 to 1600, and then on from there. I get kind of confused, so could you explain your rationale a bit?

Still suspicious of J; if one of Seph/marshy/J is scum, I think it's J>Seph>marshy. Suspicion of J; his case on me was a bit bologna, he's misread me horribly... lots of AtE shenanigans... basically I don't get a lot of town vibes from J. I probably need to re-read him.

As to my reads, mostly this:

I could have phrased that better... I am interested in lynching Rajam today, but am much more interested in trying to get a better read on him. I am coming to the conclusion that Rajam/John are going to be difficult to get solid reads on, so I am best off looking at what other people think of them, and taking a closer look at Sang.

When I did a re-read, John/Rajam looked worse than you. But stuff like John still being very relaxed, and marshy giving him the ok gave me reason to pause. I can't really find any scumtells from either of them, because they're both barely here. Rajam's points against me are completely bologna, though, but that might just be straight up duncefaceness, I can't really say.
So, for the most part I'm trying to read you, Sang, and some of the things you've done (like be really passive this game, and barely have any scumreads) make me suspicious of you. Your overall tone seems way more tense and frustrated than either John/Rajam and this is making me wonder whether you're scum. I am still trying to figure out whether or not you're being genuine, because a lot of what you say doesn't quite add up to me, but I am finding it very hard to say one way or the other.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

I'm not tired, I'm probably going to be giving my thoughts on everyone in the game to try and kick-start it more and give more of my thoughts if I do die during the night just in case which should be enough to close the deal on this game.

I thought you weren't worried about dying tonight, J? What's up?

Also, I've been your no.2 pick all of Day 2;
a) this is weird because your no.1 pick keeps changing but I'm always 2nd
b) this makes me much more cautious, because it means I only get one shot at lynching scum from John/Rajam/Sang. So forgive me for taking my time.
c) also you should totally let me out reads etc. if i make it to tomorrow.

****

@Seph Talk to me about Adum sending in the night kill (given that this is the most likely explanation of his and OS's flips). Presumably this points to him having less town points than one of his scumbuddies, (because scum would send whoever was the most expendable) implying say one of you/J/marshy as scum?
Talk to meeee!

I think that will be all, for now.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

No, wait:
@Pierce can I get your read on Sang right now?
I gather she's less scummy than john and myself, but please go into details as to what sticks out about her play/what you think about it, i'd really appreciate it.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Marshy I have no idea why you call me lost.

I simply don't have much time anymore and honestly not that much fun. You have control and J follows you because you target mislynches, and I get to do nothing. The only thing I have left to do is case on J but that takes very long and requires me to go through the entire thread again and I hardly have the time or the will to do it. I've been through every situation and there is no other logical option.

Anyway, why do I have a J scum read?

First of all, Adumb was sent in. That means that someone more important than Adumb pretty much must be in the scumteam. Kary said this already, and I'll say it because while you boys might call it WIFOM, it is what made me originally look into J.

Second of all, the rest of the town. Seph/Marshy/Chibo/Pierce are town bros without dispute. Rajam, John, Kary are good, strong town reads to me. Bardull and Sang are both towny to me, but less so than the other 7.

That leaves J.

Marshy, I'm not voting any wagon while this guy is alive, except maybe maybe Sang, if there's no other choice.
Maybe lynch him first then, if the flips town, I'll follow you into the sun.

Trade J for double vote and extra voice? Avoid me having to go through all this crap just to get my target lynched?

 

[Pierce7d]

No, wait:
@Pierce can I get your read on Sang right now?
I gather she's less scummy than john and myself, but please go into details as to what sticks out about her play/what you think about it, i'd really appreciate it.

Kary do you read my posts?

 

[#HBC | J]

Going to be out and about for the day so I won't be here most likely but I can adresse two things quickly.

Still suspicious of J; if one of Seph/marshy/J is scum, I think it's J>Seph>marshy. Suspicion of J; his case on me was a bit bologna, he's misread me horribly... lots of AtE shenanigans... basically I don't get a lot of town vibes from J. I probably need to re-read him.

Kary, why does one of J/Marshy/Seph must be scum? I really don't get why you are doing that.

Also you basically rehashed point 1 and 2 because they are the same thing and pretty much OMGUS. Then the AtE thing is just "...? how is that scummy?"

One last thing, why are you bringing attention to my "worried/not-worried about dying." please stop.

I simply don't have much time anymore and honestly not that much fun. You have control and J follows you because you target mislynches, and I get to do nothing. The only thing I have left to do is case on J but that takes very long and requires me to go through the entire thread again and I hardly have the time or the will to do it. I've been through every situation and there is no other logical option.

Anyway, why do I have a J scum read?

First of all, Adumb was sent in. That means that someone more important than Adumb pretty much must be in the scumteam. Kary said this already, and I'll say it because while you boys might call it WIFOM, it is what made me originally look into J.

Second of all, the rest of the town. Seph/Marshy/Chibo/Pierce are town bros without dispute. Rajam, John, Kary are good, strong town reads to me. Bardull and Sang are both towny to me, but less so than the other 7.

That leaves J.

Marshy, I'm not voting any wagon while this guy is alive, except maybe maybe Sang, if there's no other choice.
Maybe lynch him first then, if the flips town, I'll follow you into the sun.

Trade J for double vote and extra voice? Avoid me having to go through all this crap just to get my target lynched?

1.) I do not follow Marshy, if anything we are a team that jokes together and lets each other have a push and pull together.
2.) Because Adumb sent the NK = Me being scum? That makes literally 0-sense and reminds me of how Marshy got lynched in MP2 for that similar stuff.

And you just "happen" to have everyone else as town? You are reaching for reasons to call me scum.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Most of the time, Pierce, why?

Your read on Sang today:
Null-scum ---> Null/townish, correct?
But I don't recall you saying much more than that her posts seemed townish and that she'd been coasting.

If there's nothing more to it than that, then fair enough. But I was hoping you could flesh it out for me a little more

 

[#HBC | J]

Kary/Seph, you both have me as scum. Can either of you like go into detail as to why? I want to see your train of thoughts, especially because you two are the only ones with suspicions on me with most of the town having me as their strongest town read.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Kary, why does one of J/Marshy/Seph must be scum? I really don't get why you are doing that.

I didn't say that. I said IF one of you 3 is scum, I think it's most likely to be you.

Also you basically rehashed point 1 and 2 because they are the same thing and pretty much OMGUS. Then the AtE thing is just "...? how is that scummy?"

No, this is nonsense.
Neither me being suspicious of your case on me or me being suspicious of your read on me is OMGUS; I'm trying to tell whether your stances/posts this game are genuine.
And the AtE can be scummy when you're just appealing in order to push something rather than actually arguing for it, because it can let you persuade people without actually having a case against them.

Oh, and I'm trying to read you.

 

[#HBC | J]

I had a scum lean on Bardull yesterday, and it remained a scum lean pretty much throughout the Day, and was my only notable scumread. My point was that I didn't have a solid read on Bardull and wasn't necessarily prepared to lynch him off of it.

Kary, this looks like a contradiction to what you had been saying earlier with regards to your Ronike read because why would you be trying to take credit for the Ronike "conversation starting" if Bardull was your only "notable" scum-read?

Gosh, doing this on my phone is hard.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

1.) I do not follow Marshy, if anything we are a team that jokes together and lets each other have a push and pull together.

You've stayed within his comfort zone all the time, appealing to him all the time (which isn't necessarily scummy) and yeah, you just admitted to pretty much teaming up with him. In the end though, it's just following because you stay within his comfort zone.

And you just "happen" to have everyone else as town? You are reaching for reasons to call me scum.

This is bad defense if I've ever seen it. I have town reads, so what? You're the only one left. I don't see how it's reaching, it's simple process of elimination. Why would I reach for reasons to call you scum when I've only reached the conclusion today after the logical thought process of "why does adumb send the kill?" > "oh these people are town" > "leaves J, which brings up a bad feel about his slot"

2.) Because Adumb sent the NK = Me being scum? That makes literally 0-sense and reminds me of how Marshy got lynched in MP2 for that similar stuff.

J...
...
Really?
Marshy, do me a favor, babe; comment on this.

 

[#HBC | J]

Your suspicious of me because of my attack on you. You feel it makes me more suspicious because in your eyes it is "weak" and because I'm reading you wrong = more scummy.

Also w.r.t. AtE, trust me, I know all about that and more. ;P It is my forte after all haha.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

IASFIJASJNJK @J

I have Bardull as a scum lean most of the Day. I have Ronike as a scum query... not sure about him.
After arguing with Bardull and getting town vibes from him towards the end of Day 1, and with Ronike having mysteriously disappeared, I was happy to switch to Ronike.

I actually don't give two ****s if it looks like a contradiction because I know that it's not, and you trying to suggest that it is only makes me all the more suspicious of you, especially when you bring it up RIGHT AFTER ASKING WHY I THINK YOU MIGHT BE SCUM

HOT DAMN

 

[#HBC | J]

Stay within a comfort zone? What? Today instead of going with Marshy on Sang, like he wanted, I went John an then Rajam in the end.

Thing is, it is reaching to have me as scum because you aren't looking at anyone more in-depth and are fine with just tunneling me and not giving me a fair chance at all. In fact, most of your analysis has been considerably shallow and vapid tbqh. =/

 

[frozenmarsh751]

seph...you pretty much announced to the world that you were shooting adumb. this means the scumteam HAD to send him or risk losing all of their team n1

 

[#HBC | J]

Kary I don't even know what you are getting so hopped up about. O_o I also have been bringing things on you all game so I don't get why you are trying to make it sound like OMGUS because you just said I am scummy looking.

 

[#HBC | J]

seph...you pretty much announced to the world that you were shooting adumb. this means the scumteam HAD to send him or risk losing all of their team n1

^^^^this so Adumb most likely did do the kill himself because it wouldn't make sense especially since you said you were going to shoot him.

 

[Rajam]

marshy is right. Claims at this point don't matter and shouldn't factor at the moment of lynching, since we're mostly dealing with 1 mafia left and 1 or 2 indies working together. Even if someone claims cop or doctor or some other important power role, lynch should still go through. We have margin to prioritize lynching scummy play over defending scummy players with power roles.

I still think Kary should be lynched. Flips have reinforced my confidence on lynching him.

I don't think Sangfroid is scum. #303 gave me mixed signals, specially the second part:

"Well, there could be numerous reasons. If you specifically chose me, then it might be because 1) you were trying to make sure I stayed active during your RVS or 2) you wanted to see how I responded under pressure. If not those, you might have been trying to see who immediately hopped on this so-called wagon, who immediately decided to buddy you, who decided to defend me, etc. in order to get reads and connections on people for later on in the game. This one I find more likely, being as you seem to think RVS is so important and would likely give you the most information. There are probably others but I'd be hard pressed to think of them because I've never been able to get much from RVS."

On first impression, I noticed Sang only assumed good intentions coming from adumbrodeus. Sang never mentions the possibility of adumb being scum by making a horrible case in RVS and looking like he was being useful, or mentioning something like that. The paragraph hence is scummy on first impression. On second read though, it's a calm reaction from Sang with a wagon at that point of 2 votes of 7 necessary. I like that this is not an over-reaction, which I think is like town would react with a little wagon like this, and considering Kary and BarDulL started at that point being the greater wagons. #321 also is a post I feel town vibes from Sang.

Lynch Kary

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Marshy fulfill my request.

Alright @ adumb getting the shot. True. Still doesn't make J town lol.

Stay within a comfort zone? What? Today instead of going with Marshy on Sang, like he wanted, I went John an then Rajam in the end.

lolol
Yeah because Marshy minds lynching Rajam or compensating with John? Orite

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Your suspicious of me because of my attack on you. You feel it makes me more suspicious because in your eyes it is "weak" and because I'm reading you wrong = more scummy.

Say what?
You're putting words in my mouth here and I don't even understand these words.
There are at least two things that I need to look at:
1. Your read on me, whether you actually believe that I'm scum.
2. Your case on me, whether you actually believe any of the points you made.

If i can suss the first one then I'll know your alignment
If I can suss the second one then I'll have a better idea of why you're pushing me, but not necessarily know your alignment.
(suss = figure out)

Also w.r.t. AtE, trust me, I know all about that and more. ;P It is my forte after all haha.

Then why did you ask why it was scummy?

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

If there's a tracker, track J.
If there's a doc/watcher, doc/watch Marshy.
If there's a marshy, lynch J IMMEDIATELY after the doc/watcher dies.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

or in LyLo if he makes it that far.