Paper Mario Flips the Switch! -- Paper Mario Support Thread

[AzureFlame4]

I think the whole being made of paper thing lends itself to a very unique moveset with Paper Mario. That and I love the games with him that I play so I'm a definite supporter. He's one of my final four wants.

 

[Zodiacx10]

paper mario, Yes!

 

[RayaGRH]

He is way overdue, and would be such a unique and interesting fighter. We have three Links, now three Samus'... time for three Marios.

 

[Paper_Marzio]

I wouldn't say that being a background character is grounds for deconfirmation. Just look at Toon Link in the Spirit Tracks stage. If he's not in the match, he's driving the train. If he is, it's someone else.

Well that is a fair point to have one of the characters sub out for Captain Toad but the problem is I don't think there's anybody to swap Captain Toad with considering he's in the back-round and not in the focus of the stage

 

[DooplissWizard]

Count me in for a Paper Mario supporter! The original Paper Mario trilogy are all some of my favorite games, and he's been my most wanted newcomer for a long time now.

 

[Mastermiine]

Add me as a supporter please!

 

[TriMaxTime]

There’s so many characters I would love to see in Smash, and Paper Mario is the one with perhaps the most unique potential moveset of them all. Also, more excuses to nostalgia-blind me with TTYD references are always good things.

 

[MonkeyDLenny]

I could see his Final Smash being summoning that fan from Sticker Star and blowing everyone back.

Smash Attacks could cause the charge-up meter to appear of his head as he charges

 

[Paper_Marzio]

I could see his Final Smash being summoning that fan from Sticker Star and blowing everyone back.

Smash Attacks could cause the charge-up meter to appear of his head as he charges

Yeah I can see that being the F-Smash considering it appears in every game in one form or another and could easily use the timing mechanic

As a side note, despite how controversial Sticker Star was I think it could open up some good 'Thing' Attacks that aren't the fan like this for an Up-Air

[Made using Sticker Star models, and would have a tipper at the end of the pin]

 

[Ridrool64]

I feel like Paper Mario's chances are not only much better than before, but the chances of him being the one we all know and love [with some love to his more recent installments] are DRASTICALLY improved. K. Rool is why I believe this: he is a love letter to classic Donkey Kong history, and thus I believe that Paper Mario would primarily pull from the original trilogy and only occasionally break out the newer entries. Consider me a supporter.

 

[RC-3197]

Count me in as a supporter too, paper mario would be an awesome newcomer.

 

[Handy Man]

I support Paper Mario. He's definitely my number one Mario rep choice. It would be great if Paper Mario becoming playable in Smash lead to a revival towards a new Paper Mario RPG game. Plus, his moveset would be conpletely unique from Mario's and can draw from many attacks across his games, partners included or not.

 

[ShroomEL]

I got bored, so I made a moveset based on paper mario from the first 2 games.

Paper Mario potential moveset:


Neutral attack: One-Two swing - Paper Mario punches to the side twice, before swinging his hammer upwards for an uppercut

Side tilt: Gale Force - Madame Flurrie appears beside Paper Mario and exhales quickly, dealing damage to opponents and pushing them back

Up tilt: Belly Flop - Sushie Jumps upwards and Belly flops quickly down back towards Paper Mario, damaging opponents close to Paper Mario

Down tilt: Love Slap - Ms. Mowz jumps out beside Paper Mario and slaps anyone in front of her

Dash attack: Spin dash - Paper Mario spins forward, giving him a tiny speed boost and damaging opponents


Other movements:

Shielding: Block - Paper Mario puts his fists up to his face and blocks

Roll: Tube mode - Paper Mario quickly rolls up and rolls back or forward

Spot dodge: Superguard - Paper Mario uses superguard to spot dodge

Swimming: Boat mode - When Paper Mario enters stage water, he transforms into boat Mario

Edge attack: Hammer recovery - Paper Mario hops back onto stage and slams his hammer down

Battle entrance: Plane Mario - Paper Mario flies onto stage in Paper airplane mode before changing back and waving before the battle starts



Smash attacks:

F-smash: Hammer - Paper Mario holds his hammer above his head and charges it up like in the games, before slamming it down onto the ground.

D-Smash: Hammer Swirl - Paper Mario holds his hammer at his side and charges up, before spinning his hammer around closer to the ground, similar to Super Hammer, but lower

U-Smash: Hammer Throw - Paper Mario holds his hammer above his head, but further behind his head than F-smash, and throws his hammer upwards


Aerials:

Nair: Electro dash - Watt spins around Paper Mario in the air, damaging opponents and dealing large amounts of damage when she comes into contact with shielding opponents on the ground

Fair: Hammer spin - Paper Mario swings his hammer forward in the air similar to the Quake hammer in ttyd, but rotates in the air while doing so

Bair: Spiny Flip - Lakilester flies out behind Paper Mario and throws a spiny shell, which will fall to the ground and bounce around until it falls off the stage, Like gordos

Dair: Spin Jump - Paper Mario ground pounds downwards

Upair: Hammer juggle - Paper Mario twirls his hammer around directly upwards in the air


Specials:

up B: ParaKarry - ParaKarry comes out and lifts Mario up and flies around for a short time, just like his down C button command on the n64. He's much better for horizontal recovery as seen in 64, so while his horizontal recovery covers a fair amount of distance, his vertical recovery is about the same as Dk's, a bit less.


down B: Partner select - A small up down menu appears beside Paper Mario, allowing him to choose a buddy from the first 2 paper mario games to accompany him on the battlefield for assistance. Buddies will follow Paper Mario around, however they can not be attacked individually, nor can they fight back against opponents on their own. Each Buddy has an attack or move they can use (see neutral B below), and each buddy has a limit to how much they can be used, similar to Monado. Buddies can get tired and will need to recharge before attacking again. The five selectable buddies, as well as their stats are listed below. (Obviously no stats nor alt names would be listed on any in-game menu)
-> Goombario (Goombella as alt) Amount of attacks before recharge: 2 Recharge time: 10 seconds
-> Kooper (Koops as alt) Amount of attacks before recharge: 2 Recharge time: 10 seconds
-> Bombette (Admiral Bobbery as alt)Amount of attacks before recharge: 1 Recharge time: 15 seconds
-> Lady Bow (Vivian as alt) Amount of attacks before recharge: 1 Recharge time: 15 seconds
-> Yoshi Kid Amount of time can be ridden for: 15 seconds (Amount of attacks used during time can lower time dependent on attack usage)
Recharge time: 15 if dismounted before limit, 25 if ridden past limit
(More info in neutral b, look below)


neutral B: (See down B) Paper Mario uses the buddy out at the moment in time.
-----------------------------------------
Buddy attacks when using neutral B:

Goomabrio/Goombella: Headbonk - Goombario/Goombella is thrown in the air in a curved angle, headbutting and damaging opponents

Kooper/Koops: Shell toss - Kooper/Koops retracts into his shell, and shoots forward a small distance. If done in air, the shell just free falls

Bombette/Admiral Bobbery: Bomb - Paper Mario Picks up Bombette/Bobbery and holds him/her above his head, before letting go, throwing them to bomb an enemy. If held for too long, Mario will take damage from the explosion. If B is released immediately after bomb charge begins, Bombette/Bobbery will fall to the ground and walk forward, before blowing up a few seconds later. Does less damage however and is easy to avoid

Lady bow/Vivian: Lady Bow/Vivian pulls Paper Mario back a bit, before making him transparent for a few seconds, avoiding damage.
Paper Mario suffers a bit of lag when Bow's/Vivian's effect wears off, leaving him open to damage for a second.

Yoshi Kid: Sprint and Gulp - Paper Mario jumps on Yoshi kids back immediately after Selecting him with down B, now able to ride him. This increases Paper Mario's speed like Shulk with Monado speed. Like Monado effects, using Yoshi kid to increase speed decreases another stat, dramatically decreasing Paper Mario's Jump. Instead, you are left with a Tiny flutter jump that lifts Paper Mario a small bit off the ground for a second. You can still Use up B to make up for a bit of the Vertical recovery lost, and ParaKarry will use more strength to lift Paper Mario up higher, rather than further.

This will still lessen the recovery you receive, due to Yoshi Kids added on weight. You do however still gain an attack with the speed boost, Gulp, which can still be accessed through neutral B. Gulp is a shorter ranged version of Yoshi's neutral B, but eggs pooped out can be thrown away to deal more damage to the enemy. Yoshi kid can be dismounted at any time by ducking and Jumping, making Paper Mario jump off Yoshi Kid. Yoshi kid will still follow Paper Mario around, and he can be remounted by pressing neutral B, but Yoshi Kid has a long recharge time. Like Monado effects, using Yoshi Kid for an extended amount tires him out, and if he is not dismounted shortly, Paper Mario will be forced off Yoshi Kid, and Yoshi Kid won't be usable again for another 25 seconds, as opposed to a smaller recharge time if you dismount him early. Yoshi Kid will start to pant and will visibly grow weaker the longer you use him, signaling his energy is running out.
*WHEW*

These are the five (9 if you count alts) partners I felt would be best as buddy options for Paper Mario. I know i left out Watt, Sushie, Lakilester, Flurrie and Mowz, I chose the five i did above because I felt they would be more simple, and also because I didn't want to overextend the amount of selectable partners. I chose to keep it to a five like Shulk's monado, since Paper Mario's buddy system works similarly to Monado in Smash, besides the fact that Monado is stat enhancement and Paper Mario's is extra smaller attacks.

However, I decided to incorporate those 5 I left out in Paper Mario's tilts and aerials. By the way, the reason I added Alts beside the First partners names is because those Partners are similar in terms of base attack, e.g Goombario a Goombella both headbonk, Kooper and Koops both have standard shell toss, etc. I thought of the idea of Switching alts on buddies on character select screen since this moveset is based on both Paper Mario 64 and TTYD.



side B: Focus - Paper Mario cuffs his hands together and charges focus, based off focus in Paper Mario 64. Focus is a meditation move that charges starpower. Starpower is used for side B abilities that are dependent on how much damage Paper Mario has taken.
0-39% - Paper Mario fires off small star projectiles halfway charged, dealing around 6% damage. At full charge, Focus fires a larger single star, dealing 9-10% average damage.

40-89% - Paper Mario summons one of 3 Star Spirits: Mamar, Skolar, or Klevar. Skolar hovers slightly above and showers Paper Mario with a protective star shower force which lasts for up to 2 seconds, damaging opponents who come close to Paper Mario. Klevar, less common than Skolar, swoops out and hits enemies only in front of Paper Mario, stunning them for a short second. Finally Mamar, who has a one out of ten chance to appear, hits enemies in front of Paper Mario, causing them to fall asleep for up to 5 seconds.

90% and up - If used at full charge, Paper Mario uses refresh, which heals up to 15% damage, as well as increase Paper Mario's attack damage for 5 seconds. If used at half charge, only heals 9%. The more you use Focus above 90%, the less effective it becomes, e.g First full charge use heals 15%, next full charge use heals 10%, next use heals only 5%, and after the third full charge use, if a full charge is activated above 90% again in the same game, it will only enhance attack power, no more damage restoration.

While charging Focus, projectiles fired at Paper Mario's front will be absorbed and can be used to charge Focus faster.


Final Smash concepts:

#1 Star beam - Paper Mario whacks an opponent with his hammer to begin the Final smash, sending the opponent into the air, the 7 star spirits then decend from the sky and
create a circle formation, before blasting the opponent with the powerful star beam

#2 Supernova - Supernova stuns and then destroys everyone on screen


#3 Earth tremor - The diamond star begins slamming onto the ground repeatedly, heavily damaging anyone on the ground besides Paper Mario, before smashing into the ground, causing
a finishing earthquake that sends opponents flying


#4 Clock out - Paper Mario throws the Emerald star into the air, before it transforms into a massive bomb that explodes once it lands, not only stunning everybody besides Paper Mario for 5 seconds, but also dealing 125% to everybody affected by the bomb, giving Paper Mario basically free kills. The damage given however does not make opponents flinch at all however, instead stunning them.



Welp, that's my Paper Mario moveset so far I know i changed quite a bit in terms of moves from their original games, like how Focus works, or what other things do, I just wanted to make it fit Smash better. Please feel free to give your thoughts and opinions on my Moveset, as well as give any constructive criticism you may have for me. I thought It would just be fun to make up a moveset for one of my most wanted Smash newcomers.

 

[Cosmic77]

Well with this direct I've come up with some pros and cons.

Pros:
Captain Toad is virtually de-confirmed due to being in the back-round of New Donk, so that clears up a competing Mario Rep slot and a frontrunner in virtually every Mario Poll for the Mario Rep.
No Mario reps confirmed, so we don't know who the Mario Rep is this time around.
Cons:
Paper Mario stage is revealed, We can't use the 'They're saving it for Paper Mario' this time around.
Sakurai is obviously aiming towards Fan Favorites like K.Rool this time around, and I'm afraid he's sticking to the ballot, which Paper Mario unfortunately be a year behind on in terms of support.

Of course, this is just speculations this time around over a sample size of what, E3 and 1 direct? But if this trend of picking Fan Favorites keeps on going I think Paper Mario might be left in the dust due to Geno's popularity, along with unironic Sakurai Bias, although I certainly wouldn't mind him since he represents the grandfather of not only the Mario and Luigi series, but also the Paper Mario series which I wouldn't mind honestly. However there's a bright side to this Geno deal for Paper Mario.


Square Enix is Stingy with their representation in Smash. Cloud only kept their Two songs from Smash 4, and that clearly didn't expand at all during the Direct, so there is a good possibility Square Enix X Nintendo relations degraded and Paper Mario might have a chance to dive in as the only capable Mario Rep left with Waluigi AT'd, Captain Toad Backround'd, and Geno potentially split by third parties, or possibly other Square Enix reps like Dragon Quest.

Honestly, I don't think Paper Mario was effected at all by the Direct. Since every returning stage was presumably shown off, Paper Mario's stage being bundled in with the rest isn't necessarily a huge blow to his odds (if anything, it helps his chances now that we confirmation that it's returning).

As far as Geno's popularity and the ballot goes, I'm not particularly worried. Paper Mario was already frequently requested, and while I did see some support for Geno back then, he wasn't anywhere near as popular as the frontrunners Captain Toad and Waluigi. Coincidentally, Geno didn't pick up a lot of supporters for this game until after E3, when Waluigi and (presumably) Captain Toad were disconfirmed.

I wouldn't say that being a background character is grounds for deconfirmation. Just look at Toon Link in the Spirit Tracks stage. If he's not in the match, he's driving the train. If he is, it's someone else.

The only difference is that Captain Toad would be a full-fledged newcomer. It'd be very strange for Sakurai to first show off CT as a background character before revealing him as a playable character for Ultimate.

The only time a newcomer was initially shown off as something besides a playable character was with ROB back in Brawl, and ROB is already extremely generic.

 

[Ghirahilda]

He is still my most favorite character and my most wanted! But I'm really a little worried. Paper Mario's stage is with Mario Universe symbol. this mean that if Paper Mario gets in he will have Mario Universe symbol too?

This is a nice debate, if Paper Mario should be part of Mario or have his own Universe like Yoshi and Wario

 

[MegaMarioMan9]

I love Paper Mario. I love Smash bros. Paper Mario is one of my most wanted characters in Smash bros. So i decided to create a custom moveset based on the first two games, 64 and TTYD.

You've got some very creative ideas here. I feel like you maybe relied on the usage of partners a little more than necessary, but your moveset really shows off a lot of what could be done with just pulling from the first two Paper Mario games. I had never considered him using Focus or the Star Spirits outside of his Final Smash, so props for coming up with that. I think the coolest idea to come from your moveset is the idea of switching your partners' appearance on the character select. I imagine it would work sort of like how Pokemon Trainer does in this game, where you can select the Trainer and Pokemon colors separately.

He is still my most favorite character and my most wanted! But I'm really a little worried. Paper Mario's stage is with Mario Universe symbol. this mean that if Paper Mario gets in he will have Mario Universe symbol too?

This is a nice debate, if Paper Mario should be part of Mario or have his own Universe like Yoshi and Wario

I don't see it as an issue. It would be perfectly reasonable if Paper Mario just counts as a Mario series character. It'd be cool to have him represent his own series with a hammer icon or something of the sort, but it's not really necessary. They could always change the stage's series icon as well, post-character reveal.

 

[Jeanne]

I support his inclusion! I think his nuetral attack could be a pummel using bow's slap attack, his down special can be sushi spitting water like FLUDD. His side special can be a koopa kick and his neutral special can be vivian shooting out fireballs. His tilts can be his hammer with a color splash particle effect. His aeriels can also be his hammer. His recovery could be lackalester bringing him back up like a Duck Hunt recovery. Just brainstorming but I feel like his partners really could help him out!

 

[ShroomEL]

You've got some very creative ideas here. I feel like you maybe relied on the usage of partners a little more than necessary, but your moveset really shows off a lot of what could be done with just pulling from the first two Paper Mario games. I had never considered him using Focus or the Star Spirits outside of his Final Smash, so props for coming up with that. I think the coolest idea to come from your moveset is the idea of switching your partners' appearance on the character select. I imagine it would work sort of like how Pokemon Trainer does in this game, where you can select the Trainer and Pokemon colors separately.

Thanks! I wanted to incorporate the partners a lot, since we sadly never see any partners anymore in Paper Mario, and they were a large staple of the first two games. I also came up with the Focus in battle concept when I was thinking of a better suiting move that originated from the first 2 games. I often see Fleep being incorporated in other Paper Mario Movesets as side B, and while I do enjoy Super Paper Mario, I wanted to just stick to the first games. It was really fun coming up with and I'm glad you like the concept.

 

[Ridrool64]

One thing that's really hard is determining how much of his moveset should come from what? Partners, badges, stickers, Pixls, and his own basic commands all would help out a lot for a moveset. A world where Thoreau is not his grab is a world not for me. But there's so much you can do with all of that, that it feels like just theorycrafting movesets for him is kinda tough. Sometimes, you can't incorporate enough from a character. Unless somehow he used all of that in parts "smash attack partners, throws Pixls, aerials badges, tilts stickers" but then what are his specials? Paper Mario is the weird character with too much moveset potential: he should incorporate as much as possible but it's not enough with this little space. But it just means that whatever Sakurai and his team come up with, the better it will be.

 

[Paper_Marzio]

One thing that's really hard is determining how much of his moveset should come from what? Partners, badges, stickers, Pixls, and his own basic commands all would help out a lot for a moveset. A world where Thoreau is not his grab is a world not for me. But there's so much you can do with all of that, that it feels like just theorycrafting movesets for him is kinda tough. Sometimes, you can't incorporate enough from a character. Unless somehow he used all of that in parts "smash attack partners, throws Pixls, aerials badges, tilts stickers" but then what are his specials? Paper Mario is the weird character with too much moveset potential: he should incorporate as much as possible but it's not enough with this little space. But it just means that whatever Sakurai and his team come up with, the better it will be.

Yeah that's definitely a Big part of speculating Paper Mario's moveset. I could pull up 5 fan-created movesets and they'd all have different ideals in terms of what moves they are pulling from and outside of 'Thoreau is the grab' there really isn't any agreed upon option'

 

[Luigi The President]

Cannot express my support enough. Most wanted character for over 4 years now.

I feel he's actually got the best shot of any game so far in this game.
Trying to keep my hopes down, but in about every Ballot poll I've seen, Paper Mario's always in the top 10, and very often, the top 5.
And seeing as Sakurai seems to be going off the Ballot...hm.

He's got some of the best move set potential of any possible newcomer, sheer popularity, and Sakurai does seem to respect the series.
Again, I hate getting my hopes up, but unfortunately they just won't go down!

What do you guys think? Is he likely at all?

 

[Paper_Marzio]

Cannot express my support enough. Most wanted character for over 4 years now.

I feel he's actually got the best shot of any game so far in this game.
Trying to keep my hopes down, but in about every Ballot poll I've seen, Paper Mario's always in the top 10, and very often, the top 5.
And seeing as Sakurai seems to be going off the Ballot...hm.

He's got some of the best move set potential of any possible newcomer, sheer popularity, and Sakurai does seem to respect the series.
Again, I hate getting my hopes up, but unfortunately they just won't go down!

What do you guys think? Is he likely at all?

After the direct I thought that Paper Mario's chances were pretty slim, but after checking out a wide variety of polls, and his situation in terms of this game I think this is his best chance and he's still a strong choice even after the direct.

1. Paper Mario is well known regardless of age group due to his presence on the N64, Game Cube, Wii, and beyond. So I doubt he over-performed in the poll unlike a majority of top votes[Internet Demographics heavily favor Geno, Banjo Kazooie, Shantae, and Isaac due to it's nature of pulling from multiple polls on the same website where hardcore fans of the RPG's like Golden Sun, Super Mario, RPG, or old-school platformers like Banjo, or Shantae usually vote multiple times on the same website and inflate the count. Not to mention Shantae most likely having inflated votes due to her internet presence to the point where her games got revived by a Kick-starter.]
2. He's first party so that's a big plus in terms of viability as a character and not having to deal with 3rd Party drama, or the 2 Final Fantasy songs from Square Enix. I know the Final Fantasy song deal has an incredible amount of insight with the legal issues behind FF music, but I really believe if they Square Enix was working with Nintendo they'd at least pull some older/newer songs that didn't have these barriers for Geno. I could bring up Konami having so many soundtracks but honestly that company is just greedy and most likely just took the money for the Castlevania license so I don't find that argument relevant.
3. Is currently the only viable First-Party Mario character left. With Waluigi AT'd, Captain Toad back-round deconfirmed, and no one else from the series making a mark in any poll I know of, if we get a first-party Mario character we would know who would it be.

I know to temper my expectations on who is, and who isn't viable as a newcomer due to the possibly erratic nature of the newcomers in this game with a good chance I'll get stuffed in the next newcomer reveal, but I think he's under-estimated by a lot of people as a newcomer despite not being The Guy on everyone's newcomer list as expected, and doesn't have a backset of fancy hints to argue the viability of, but I think he has a fighting chance this time around.

 

[EarlTamm]

After the direct I thought that Paper Mario's chances were pretty slim, but after checking out a wide variety of polls, and his situation in terms of this game I think this is his best chance and he's still a strong choice even after the direct.

1. Paper Mario is well known regardless of age group due to his presence on the N64, Game Cube, Wii, and beyond. So I doubt he over-performed in the poll unlike a majority of top votes[Internet Demographics heavily favor Geno, Banjo Kazooie, Shantae, and Isaac due to it's nature of pulling from multiple polls on the same website where hardcore fans of the RPG's like Golden Sun, Super Mario, RPG, or old-school platformers like Banjo usually vote multiple times on the same website and inflate the count. Not to mention Shantae most likely having inflated votes due to her internet presence to the point where her games got revived by a Kick-starter.]
2. He's first party so that's a big plus in terms of viability as a character and not having to deal with 3rd Party drama, or the 2 Final Fantasy songs from Square Enix. I know the Final Fantasy song deal has an incredible amount of insight with the legal issues behind FF music, but I really believe if they Square Enix was working with Nintendo they'd at least pull some older/newer songs that didn't have these barriers for Geno. I could bring up Konami having so many soundtracks but honestly that company is just greedy and most likely just took the money for the Castlevania license so I don't find that argument relevant.
3. Is currently the only viable First-Party Mario character left. With Waluigi AT'd, Captain Toad back-round deconfirmed, and no one else from the series making a mark in any poll I know of, if we get a first-party Mario character we would know who would it be.

I know to temper my expectations on who is, and who isn't viable as a newcomer due to the possibly erratic nature of the newcomers in this game with a good chance I'll get stuffed in the next newcomer reveal, but I think he's under-estimated by a lot of people as a newcomer despite not being The Guy on everyone's newcomer list as expected, and doesn't have a backset of fancy hints to argue the viability of, but I think he has a fighting chance this time around.

Where did you get that pic?

 

[Paper_Marzio]

Where did you get that pic?

It's a visualized version of this data https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...J0_cGRKU15KYlTe1E/edit#gid=729442469&range=D5

It's a consolidation of various polls across the internet.

that opted to take out confirmed or deconfirmed characters.
No source on the original image, but I know it sourced this due to matching character patterns.

It came from here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/...aracters_from_estimated_ballot_poll/?sort=new

 

[EarlTamm]

It's a visualized version of this data https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...J0_cGRKU15KYlTe1E/edit#gid=729442469&range=D5

It's a consolidation of various polls across the internet.

that opted to take out confirmed or deconfirmed characters.
No source on the original image, but I know it sourced this due to matching character patterns.

It came from here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/...aracters_from_estimated_ballot_poll/?sort=new

Thank you!

 

[waddledeeonredyoshi]

Thousand Year Door is one of my fovourite games so I support. Way better pick than Geno imo.

 

[Cap’nKazam]

Please add me to supporters! Thousand-Year Door is one of my favorite games!

 

[BonafideFella]

IMO, Paper Mario is harder to make a moveset for then Waluigi. Not saying I don't support (He's one of my most wanted.), but the paperweight plumber has three different playstyles wedged between five different games. Most movesets I see follow two patterns: Either you focus on one or two certain games or some Frankenstein-ish amalgamation between all these polarizing mechanics.

If I had a chance to create Paper Mario in Smash, I think I would narrow down the common threads of the series. The hammer, action commands, turn-based battles, little buddies by your side, mini-managing, and of course, the paper aspect.

The hammer could be the focal point of his smash attacks, with perhaps throwing mini-hammers in an arc as his neutral special.
Action commands could be timed with projectiles but obviously double-tapping won't work for melee attacks so Paper Mario could take a page from Ridley's book and hit a sweet spot.
Turn-based battling could be implemented though the only thing that comes to mind for me is waiting for an opening between blows for extra damage, perhaps tying back to the paper mechanic because if your opponents lands a good attack, the paperweight plumber will take large amounts of damage and blow away in the wind.
Partners, unfortunately, would probably be along the lines of Kersti and Huey instead of Goombario and Vivian, possibly sending them out for a side special and playing on the sticker/card collecting gameplay of those games by snatching items for PM, deflecting attacks and even taking items out of opponent's hands! Along with doing damage, as you do.
Mini-managing is not something I see often in fan movesets, but my concept brings this element to light. His down special could utilize a mini-menu similar to Shulk's Monado Arts, where you could equip stickers for temporary stat boosts, with the main feature being able to change around PM's neutral, from the aforementioned mini-hammers to a stronger Golden Hammer to a Paint Hammer with a unique status effect of slowing opponents down.
Finally, we have the paper aspects of Paper Mario. This could factor into his stats, being a light character with surprising hard-hitting attacks (paper cuts, anyone?) , but at the expense of average speed and an easy opponent to knock off the blast zone. This could also apply to aesthetics such as a dash where he transforms into a paper airplane with a tipper effect, or his Up Special, transforming into the paper kite from M&L: Paper Jam.

His final smash could be many things, with my original concept involving transforming into Papercraft Mario from the aforementioned Paper Jam but now that transformations have bid adieu, my preferred idea can come to light, paying homage to the series' role-playing roots with it unfolding as if it were a Paper Mario battle, paper aesthetics and all, where PM runs up to the opponent(s) in question and gets as many hammer wallops in as possible, before jumping behind the opponent and smashing them into the screen with his trusty wooden hammer. The Final Smash itself would function as a cutscene with more interactivity, that being the number of button presses you can cram in with your mallet.

But hey, this whole tangent could be for naught! Fan movesets for K. Rool, Simon and Ridley have been right on the money so I guess we'll have to wait it out!
Conclusion: What the hell do I know?

 

[BonafideFella]

Extremely late cleanup; double post.
Ignore this post, it's irrelevant.

 

[Ridrool64]

IMO, Paper Mario is harder to make a moveset for then Waluigi. Not saying I don't support (He's one of my most wanted.), but the paperweight plumber has three different playstyles wedged between five different games. Most movesets I see follow two patterns: Either you focus on one or two certain games or some Frankenstein-ish amalgamation between all these polarizing mechanics.

As I've said, he's basically the only character with too much moveset potential. Either he's barebones, frankenstein's moveset, or neglects at least a few games.

King K. Rool might outweigh Bowser, and should Paper Mario dethrone Pichu for the lightest, therefore? He's literally paper. I could see an argument for having Pichu be lighter, though.

 

[MegaMarioMan9]

Mini-managing is not something I see often in fan movesets, but my concept brings this element to light. His down special could utilize a mini-menu similar to Shulk's Monado Arts, where you could equip stickers for temporary stat boosts, with the main feature being able to change around PM's neutral, from the aforementioned mini-hammers to a stronger Golden Hammer to a Paint Hammer with a unique status effect of slowing opponents down.

I'll admit, I haven't seen mini-managing quite like this in any movesets I've found; and the way you've done it is actually a really smart way to implement SS/CS content in a way I think any Paper Mario fans can appreciate. I think the different types of stickers could really add a good bit of variety to Paper Mario's attacks.

I think the closest I've come to a mini-managing concept like this is when I implemented Flower Points into one of my movesets. Basically, Paper Mario would start with a set amount of FP, which is used up whenever a special or smash attack is used. To refill your FP, you needed to use a Honey Syrup (set to either down or neutral special), which takes a second or two to consume. Now, the difference between your gimmick and mine is that your gimmick, like Shulk's Monado Arts, gives the character additional options to choose from when the time is right, while my gimmick actually limits the character's options under certain situations, particularly whenever FP is totally drained. You can think of it like Robin's recharging tomes, except that you have to leave yourself open while you manually recharge it, and if you run completely out of FP then you're left extremely open since you would only have access to weaker attack options. Not the most well thought out gimmick now that I think about it a bit more.

...So what I'm trying to say is that I quite like the ideas you brought to the table.

 

[BonafideFella]

As I've said, he's basically the only character with too much moveset potential. Either he's barebones, frankenstein's moveset, or neglects at least a few games.

King K. Rool might outweigh Bowser, and should Paper Mario dethrone Pichu for the lightest, therefore? He's literally paper. I could see an argument for having Pichu be lighter, though.

Well, Paper Mario does lug around a three-dimensional wooden mallet in his pocket most of the time, so I'd imagine that would bring some density to the table but being paperweight is certainly appropriate and if any newcomer deserves the status of lightest character (other than those pesky one-inch tall Pokémon), it should be Paper Mario.

I'll admit, I haven't seen mini-managing quite like this in any movesets I've found; and the way you've done it is actually a really smart way to implement SS/CS content in a way I think any Paper Mario fans can appreciate. I think the different types of stickers could really add a good bit of variety to Paper Mario's attacks.

I think the closest I've come to a mini-managing concept like this is when I implemented Flower Points into one of my movesets. Basically, Paper Mario would start with a set amount of FP, which is used up whenever a special or smash attack is used. To refill your FP, you needed to use a Honey Syrup (set to either down or neutral special), which takes a second or two to consume. Now, the difference between your gimmick and mine is that your gimmick, like Shulk's Monado Arts, gives the character additional options to choose from when the time is right, while my gimmick actually limits the character's options under certain situations, particularly whenever FP is totally drained. You can think of it like Robin's recharging tomes, except that you have to leave yourself open while you manually recharge it, and if you run completely out of FP then you're left extremely open since you would only have access to weaker attack options. Not the most well thought out gimmick now that I think about it a bit more.

...So what I'm trying to say is that I quite like the ideas you brought to the table.

I return your regards! The Flower Point mechanic is certainly interesting though it gives me Pokémon Trainer 'Nam flashbacks. If I could add something onto it, it could refill on the basis of the damage he's dealt and the number of good blows he's lobbed. That way, the overall gimmick stays in tact though it's more fair and allows players to stretch their proverbial wings a bit.

I would've added an mechanic like so but as stated, I wanted to represent the constant themes of the sub-series. Flower points really only represents 2/5 of the series but the micromanaging theme remained constant throughout. Keep at it though & I'm sure you can flesh it out into your ideal mechanic!

 

[NintenRob]

For what it's worth, I think Paper Mario is the most likely Mario as of right now. I would rather King Boo personally, and I don't really think we're getting another Mario character, But I would definitely prefer Paper Mario over the other popular choice still in the running, because Paper Mario actually makes some sort of sense

 

[Cap’nKazam]

IMO, I don't like majority of fan movesets for Paper Mario. Not saying I don't support (He's one of my most wanted.), but the paperweight plumber has three different playstyles wedged between five different games. Most movesets I see follow two patterns: Either you focus on one or two certain games or some Frankenstein-ish amalgamation between all these polarizing mechanics.

If I had a chance to create Paper Mario in Smash, I think I would narrow down the common threads of the series. The hammer, action commands, turn-based battles, little buddies by your side, mini-managing, and of course, the paper aspect.

The hammer could be the focal point of his smash attacks, with perhaps throwing mini-hammers in an arc as his neutral special.
Action commands could be timed with projectiles but obviously double-tapping won't work for melee attacks so Paper Mario could take a page from Ridley's book and hit a sweet spot.
Turn-based battling could be implemented though the only thing that comes to mind for me is waiting for an opening between blows for extra damage, perhaps tying back to the paper mechanic because if your opponents lands a good attack, the paperweight plumber will take large amounts of damage and blow away in the wind.
Partners, unfortunately, would probably be along the lines of Kersti and Huey instead of Goombario and Vivian, possibly sending them out for a side special and playing on the sticker/card collecting gameplay of those games by snatching items for PM, deflecting attacks and even taking items out of opponent's hands! Along with doing damage, as you do.
Mini-managing is not something I see often in fan movesets, but my concept brings this element to light. His down special could utilize a mini-menu similar to Shulk's Monado Arts, where you could equip stickers for temporary stat boosts, with the main feature being able to change around PM's neutral, from the aforementioned mini-hammers to a stronger Golden Hammer to a Paint Hammer with a unique status effect of slowing opponents down.
Finally, we have the paper aspects of Paper Mario. This could factor into his stats, being a light character with surprising hard-hitting attacks (paper cuts, anyone?) , but at the expense of average speed and an easy opponent to knock off the blast zone. This could also apply to aesthetics such as a dash where he transforms into a paper airplane with a tipper effect, or his Up Special, transforming into the paper kite from M&L: Paper Jam.

His final smash could be many things, with my original concept involving transforming into Papercraft Mario from the aforementioned Paper Jam but now that transformations have bid adieu, my preferred idea can come to light, paying homage to the series' role-playing roots with it unfolding as if it were a Paper Mario battle, paper aesthetics and all, where PM runs up to the opponent(s) in question and gets as many hammer wallops in as possible, before jumping behind the opponent and smashing them into the screen with his trusty wooden hammer. The Final Smash itself would function as a cutscene with more interactivity, that being the number of button presses you can cram in with your mallet.

But hey, this whole tangent could be for naught! Fan movesets for K. Rool, Simon and Ridley have been right on the money so I guess we'll have to wait it out!
Conclusion: What the hell do I know?

[/QUOTE]

I really, really like these ideas. To better capture the feel of a Paper Mario battle system, I wonder if it's possible for some of Paper Mario's attacks to have a slight-wind up to them, forming flinching-resistant animation locks that hold enemies in place while giving you timed attack opportunities. For instance, a dash and A attack would have Mario whirling his hammer around him like a regular attack, but if you press A again at the precise frame when the hammer makes contact with an opponent, it does extra damage, and you can rack up a few additional hits with follow up timed hits. Neutral A quick combo could begin with double-tapping as usual, but after you've committed, you can press A again at the right moments to deal more damage. The moves would lock you into a vulnerable animation for a few more moments, but at the great reward of increased damage and knockback if you pull off the timing. Dunno, maybe I'm reaching. Aesthetically, it would also be nice to see attacks that Paper Mario lands create the action bubble displaying how much damage you dealt (as in the PM games, which could also flash to help with timing attacks).

If this sounds like too slow or vulnerable a playstyle, perhaps timed attacks only activate if you hold A upon making the right button/analog stick combination, instead of releasing it, giving Paper Mario the option to choose between regular attacks and timed animation-lock attacks for each individual situation. Actually, I kind of like this idea better, having the option to go into combo attack animations by holding A at the end of any smash attacks instead of releasing it. Holding A and missing leaves you extremely vulnerable, but holding A and connecting gets you a few more hits in, depending on the move. This would could allow Paper Mario two different playstyles: standard, easy-to-play smasher, or high risk/high reward, all-or-nothing fighter relying on timing, skill, and clever use of item effects and partner combinations that create a plethora of adaptable playstyles.

With highest regards to your mini-managing idea and streamlining PM's main combat mechanics, I'd kind of like to see Paper Mario's moveset look something like this:

B Use Item: Like Monado Arts, with Paper Mario switching through items that impart varying effects. Unlike Monado, some items can be offensive, actually attacking foes, such as Fireflower. Items are consumables that take time to recharge, similarly to Robin's weapons. After you've selected an item by switching to it with B and then delaying (like Monado Arts), Paper Mario holds the item in his hands, and it is treated like a regular item, which can be discarded or activated with A. If you pull out another item, and it is used on a fighter already benefiting from a Paper Mario item's effects, the previous effects will be canceled out and replaced by the new item's effects. This allows Paper Mario to use his items up quickly providing a small buffing for allied players in a team battle (or opposing if they are quick enough to snatch it up), or to conserve and use items opportunely throughout the battle.

B > Partner Ability: Paper Mario starts off each match with a random partner possessing a limited amount of stamina. Using this special move activates their ability. Ideal partners would be Goombella, Kooper, Flurrie, Bow, Bobbery, and Lakilester, who attack in much the same way their RPG counterparts do. When a partner is KOed, they don't come back until Paper Mario comes back from a KO, but down taunting does allow Paper Mario to pull another un-KOed partner out, or replace an active partner.

B ^ Spring Jump: Holding B after activating this special move has Paper Mario quickly scrunch up, and releasing it propels him upward. How long you hold B determines how high Mario flies. Move works similarly to Ike's great aether, with Paper Mario resisting flinching while performing this animation, and the entire move resolving very fast. If Mario manages to land on someone on the way back down, they are either spiked (if in the air), or buried (if on the ground), activating a repeat jump combo where Paper Mario can repeatedly jump on them over and over again - up to five times - with well-timed B taps, dealing more damage. Missing a timed hit ends the combo.
EDIT: Alternative B ^ Paper Airplane: Mario turns into a paper airplane, a la TTYD. Works like gliding from Brawl. Good horizontal recovery, while skillful swooping and tilting can also give some vertical recovery. Can fly fast, but does no damage.

B v Superguard: A signature Paper Mario move, functioning like Fire Emblem characters' counters. Time it right, and you can nullify an opponent's attack and inflict damage on them instead.

Anyway, those are my hopes and dreams for this character. Serious kudos, BonafideFella.

 

[BonafideFella]

I really, really like these ideas. I wonder if it's possible for some of Paper Mario's attacks to have a slight-wind up to them, forming flinching-resistant animation locks that have timed attack opportunities. For instance, a dash and A attack would have Mario whirling his hammer around him like a regular attack, but if you press A again at the precise frame when the hammer makes contact with an opponent, it does extra damage. Neutral A quick combo could begin with double-tapping as usual, but after you've committed, you can press A again at the right moments to deal more damage. The moves would lock you into a vulnerable animation for a few more moments, but at the great reward of increased damage and knockback if you pull off the timing. Dunno, maybe I'm reaching. Aesthetically, it would also be nice to see attacks that Paper Mario lands create the action bubble displaying how much damage you dealt (which could also flash to help with timing attacks).

If this sounds like too slow or vulnerable a playstyle, perhaps timed attacks only activate if you hold A upon making the right button/analog stick combination, instead of releasing it, giving Paper Mario the option to go for regular attacks or timed animation-lock attacks for each individual situation.

With highest regards to your mini-managing idea and streamlining PM's main combat mechanics, I'd kind of like to see Paper Mario's moveset look something like this:

B Item: Like Monado Arts, with Paper Mario switching through items that impart varying effects. Unlike Monado, some items can be offensive, actually attacking foes, such as Fireflower. Items are consumables that take time to recharge, similarly to Robin's weapons.

B > Partner Ability: Paper Mario starts off each match with a random partner possessing a limited amount of stamina. Using this special move activates their ability. Ideal partners would be Goombella, Kooper, Flurrie, Bow, Bobbery, and Lakilester, who attack in much the same way their RPG counterparts do. When a partner is KOed, they don't come back until Paper Mario comes back from a KO, but down taunting does allow Paper Mario to pull another un-KOed partner out, or replace an active partner.

B ^ Spring Jump: Holding B after activating this special move has Paper Mario quickly scrunch up, and releasing it propels him upward. How long you hold B determines how high Mario flies. Move works similarly to Ike's great aether, with Paper Mario resisting flinching while performing this animation, and the entire move resolving very fast. If Mario manages to land on someone on the way back down, they are either spiked (if in the air), or buried (if on the ground), activating a repeat jump combo where Paper Mario can repeatedly jump on them over and over again - up to five times - with well-timed B taps, dealing more damage. Missing a timed hit ends the combo.

B v Superguard: A signature Paper Mario move, functioning like Fire Emblem characters' counters. Time it right, and you can reverse an opponent's attack back on them.

Anyway, those are my hopes and dreams for this character. Serious kudos, BonafideFella.[/QUOTE]

Why, thank you!

Your timed attack mechanic seems really fascinating & if timed attacks will make it into the game, it will probably stem from the roots of your concept.
Now, on that moveset. The neutral seems inspired by my micromanaging mechanic, but more streamlined in the sense of utilizing items. Though I have to ask; would the items be the pre-existing items in the game or exclusive to Paper Mario himself? The side also seems inspired by me, though you went with the more ideal option of the fan-favorite partners getting some mileage. I also like the idea of the partners sticking around like Luma or Pikmin. It something I see often in fan movesets and even though I don't think it's likely, it's definitely appealing. The recovery seems, no offense, a bit barebones. It's obviously inspired by the Jump commands from the series, but it's not something only Paper Mario could do. It's one step away from a Mario custom move. However, it's still well thought-out and could function as a great move for someone else. The Superguard seems interesting and while I would've said a counter wasn't necessarily appropriate, King K. Rool got a counter so really anything is fair game!
Overall, I'm pretty keen on your moveset & I'd love to hear your take on a Final Smash!

 

[Cap’nKazam]

Thanks! I really did like your micromanaging idea. I hadn't considered Paper Mario using items from Ultimate, although that's an interesting idea. I'd probably say he gets 5-6 items from his own games switch-out-able, probably between these items: volt shroom (harmful electricity passively damages enemies who directly attack Paper Mario), sleepy sheep/ice storm (sends nearby enemy to sleep/freezes nearby enemy), shooting star/fire flower (shoots a few tiny stars/fireballs out), courage shell (decreases his knockback, does not decrease damage), stop watch (increases his frame speed, reducing animation lag), and mistake (deals damage to him). These buffing effects would do something slightly different to Paper Mario than Monado Arts do for Shulk, impacting Paper Mario's risk/reward playstyle rather than affecting general stats. Volt shroom is good against speedy players by passively damaging them even when Paper Mario is taking most of the hits, courage shell makes missing timed attacks less punishable and compensates for his lightweight knock-ability, and stop watch speeds up his animation frames, making timed attacks harder to land, but also making missed attacks less punishable by shortening their animation lag. That other players can also use Paper Mario's items almost has the effect of turning him into a support fighter during team battles, further harkening back to his RPG roots. Item buffing effects should probably last 12-20 seconds and items should take 1-3 minutes to recharge, depending on the item.

Yeah, I doubt partners are going to happen either, but here's hoping Sakurai's secretly played enough of those games to enjoy partners as much as we do.

Spring Jump was a special move in TTYD, and I thought it a reasonably applicable combat mechanic, if it matched the speed it possessed in the Paper Mario games (with slightly faster build-up). It was between that or paper airplane, but I figured the combo opportunities presented by Spring Jump had a little more appeal, if not necessarily as much horizontal recovery. Maybe it can be switched out. Paper Airplane does make a little more sense mechanically, actually, and it's might be a more iconic move, let alone one that better fulfills the "paper aspect" niche you identified.

Superguard seemed a fairly natural choice to me. While counters seem pretty shoehorned in with a lot of fighters, counters have been a crucial part of Paper Mario combat mechanics for a while. Timing seems to be the main theme for Paper Mario's combat playstyle, so it made sense to give him a defensive timed attack as well. As Paper Mario battle rounds go, Mario usually makes an attack/uses an item, has a partner make an attack, and then tries to counter or guard against an enemy's attack. With this move, all of these elements can seamlessly translate into Ultimate's flow of battle.

I'm not sure what Paper Mario's final smash should be. Probably something from Sticker Star or Color Splash, although I regret I haven't played either of those games, so I don't know what would apply here - maybe the paper fan? Were I to draw from previous games in the series, I'd probably go with Star Beam from Paper Mario 64 or Supernova from The Thousand-Year Door. It would be fun to see TTYD's Crystal Star power animation play out in the middle of a Smash Bros. fight.

 

[MegaMarioMan9]

Spring Jump was a special move in TTYD, and I thought it a reasonably applicable combat mechanic, if it matched the speed it possessed in the Paper Mario games (with slightly faster build-up). It was between that or paper airplane, but I figured the combo opportunities presented by Spring Jump had a little more appeal, if not necessarily as much horizontal recovery. Maybe it can be switched out. Paper Airplane does make a little more sense mechanically, actually, and it's might be a more iconic move, let alone one that better fulfills the "paper aspect" niche you identified.

Superguard seemed a fairly natural choice to me. While counters seem pretty shoehorned in with a lot of fighters, counters have been a crucial part of Paper Mario combat mechanics for a while. Timing seems to be the main theme for Paper Mario's combat playstyle, so it made sense to give him a defensive timed attack as well. As Paper Mario battle rounds go, Mario usually makes an attack/uses an item, has a partner make an attack, and then tries to counter or guard against an enemy's attack. With this move, all of these elements can seamlessly translate into Ultimate's flow of battle.

I really like the idea of a jumping action command that sort of locks the opponent into place until the move is finished. However, the paper airplane just feels like the perfect recovery move for him, and not implementing it into his moveset would really feel like a missed opportunity. Taking into account how unique the ability is to Paper Mario, it would really make him stand out from the other Mario's on the roster. So, I think a good compromise would be to make Paper Mario's down-air a ground pound (maybe with Thudley the Pixl as an extra aesthetic touch beside him), which, if you time your A press just as it connects with an opponent, it would have the same properties as you listed for the spring jump. As for his down special being Superguard (a.k.a. Counter), it certainly makes sense. Of course the game's roster is oversaturated with Counters, but the way you described it sells the idea well. (And it certainly doesn't hurt to have a counter included in a character's toolkit. )

Oh, and since you're fairly new to Smashboards BonafideFella I have a couple of friendly tips for the future. Posting on a thread twice in a row (a.k.a. double posting) is generally frowned upon. Not 100% sure on the reasoning but it's a thing. You did it a few posts ago and it was obviously an accident, but just look out for that in the future. Also check out the "Preview" function right next to the "Post reply" button, it helps you spot formatting errors, like when you quoted Cap’nKazam. You can also edit any of your posts if you notice a mistake after posting.

 

[BonafideFella]

Noted! Sorry for the inconvience!

 

[Admiral Bobbery]

As I've said, he's basically the only character with too much moveset potential. Either he's barebones, frankenstein's moveset, or neglects at least a few games.

King K. Rool might outweigh Bowser, and should Paper Mario dethrone Pichu for the lightest, therefore? He's literally paper. I could see an argument for having Pichu be lighter, though.

One thing I would say is, having too much moveset potential is one of the issues you would like to have over some others. Now my question being, if you're designing this character do you favor the older Paper Mario games or the newer ones? Because you clearly can't include them all.

 

[Yoshi 2410]

Well, at this point in time it looks like Geno's a shoo-in, so we can only hope that we get TWO unique Mario reps. I can see it happening, but i see only Geno making the cut even more.

One thing I would say is, having too much moveset potential is one of the issues you would like to have over some others. Now my question being, if you're designing this character do you favor the older Paper Mario games or the newer ones? Because you clearly can't include them all.

Is there anyone who would do the latter? Sakurai could just pull a Kirby and slap a Thing FS and that's it.