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Paper Mario Flips the Switch! -- Paper Mario Support Thread

A

Arthur97

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KirbyWorshipper2465 said:
And Pokémon to Paper Mario is?

Of course, the big guys likely just think that kids don't care about leveling up in Mario anymore and try to come up with alternatives.
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At least both of those generally carry the kid friendly moniker.

And...are they wrong? If it was your first RPG, you probably wouldn't even know it existed. Honestly, levels might also be tricky to balance. Besides, Paper Mario level ups were always kind of...strange. They took the bonus thing from RPG...and made it the whole level up.
 
meleebrawler

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Arthur97 said:
At least both of those generally carry the kid friendly moniker.

And...are they wrong? If it was your first RPG, you probably wouldn't even know it existed. Honestly, levels might also be tricky to balance. Besides, Paper Mario level ups were always kind of...strange. They took the bonus thing from RPG...and made it the whole level up.
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The enemies, especially the bosses of modern Paper Mario were built to make you fight smarter, not harder. All the stats in the world don't make it any less necessary to solve the puzzles, compared to the older ones where the most complicated things got just involved pointing at the right target with an effective move. The older games also put pretty hard limits on how much you could level at any given point, so it wouldn't take long before it became better to avoid weak encounters whenever possible.
 
MegaMarioMan9

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Hey folks, I disappeared from here for a bit to try and avoid spoilers for TOK, but wanted to finally pop in to mention my experience with the game so far. I'm pretty much exactly at the halfway point, so I'm comfortable stating my opinions on the game at this point. I'll probably do something similar when I finally complete the game too, with more spoilery mentions and full thoughts on everything. For now I'll keep things general and non-spoilery.

So, most importantly: I like it. Is it going to surpass my love for the first 3 games? Probably not, but for the first time in a long while, I'm happy to enjoy a new game in the series. I have a few issues with the game which I'll go over, but I think that overall the positives outweigh the negatives by a lot.

To start, the writing is very good. I still don't know if the overarching story is particularly incredible, but there's elements that make it infinitely better than SS and CS. (non-Bowser main villain, hurrah!) The story is no SPM, but it's not bad. There have been a couple of emotionally impactful moments though, which I welcome. Won't go into them since it's kinda spoiler territory. Anyway, where the writing mostly shines is the moment-to-moment writing. LOTS of great jokes, both verbal and visual, I've laughed a number of times, it's great.

Paper-centric aesthetics are still a thing, but in this game more than ever they fit quite well and the game wouldn't really exist without them, both in terms of gameplay and story. The origami style is really lovely to look at, and the world themes are way more interesting than the stock-standard, generic Mario stuff. Music is excellent, on par with the best of the series imo. Many of the battle themes especially are extremely catchy, and having the main battle theme change styles per area is a nice change of pace.

As for the battle system, I enjoy it overall. When the puzzles aren't baby-easy, it's really satisfying to get the correct enemy lineups. I've always been a fan of spacial puzzles like this, so I understand that this is maybe the aspect of the game that could divide people the most. I really like it, but others may not, so I acknowledge the game might not be for everyone because of it. Especially when it comes to the more simplistic action commands, which is where I feel the battle system kinda falters. Unlike in 64 and TTYD where there's a wealth of interesting action commands, this game pretty much boils the commands down to pressing the A button at the right time. There's at least different enemy types which will require the awareness of using certain types of jumps/hammers and items, but this is probably my biggest gripe with the game, and why I'm kinda afraid that additional playthroughs might not be as fun. I'm having a great time with this first playthrough though, so let's get back on topic. The other big thing worth mentioning is of course the boss battles, which I find really fun. The difficulty of each boss seems kinda variable, as I've had a much easier time with some later bosses than earlier ones, but they're all fun in their own way and each has its own unique gimmicks to spice things up. This is also generally where the 1,000 fold arms see the most creative use; I think they're kinda gimmicky outside of boss battles, but they have more interesting uses within the bosses.

Finally I just wanted to point out my few issues with the game. The thing that's stood out to me in my recent playtime is some backtracking issues, which is usually either because of the game's instructions not being quite clear enough, or just being required outright. The biggest offender was when I accidentally missed reading a piece of text on the wall and ended up running around the entire area trying to figure out how to get down to a certain location, and then (without spoiling exactly what it was I was doing), there were a number of objects I could activate, only one of which was correct, and I ended up trial-and-erroring it since I missed the text that hinted toward the correct answer. Notably, some incorrect choices resulted in enemy encounters. I'll take partial blame for that one, but even when I tried to use Olivia's hint system to guide me to what I was supposed to do next, she didn't give me any useful information. Outside of that there were just a few general backtracking issues; nothing new to a Paper Mario veteran, I guess. :p I already stated my issue with the battle system, so the only other nitpick I wanted to make is that the overworld feels like it could be fleshed out a little more in one aspect, that being the usage of partners. Traversing the world mostly comes down to jumping and hammering, with the occasional use of the 1,000 fold arms. It'd be a lot more interesting if you had to use partner abilities like the first 3 games to traverse areas and solve puzzles. There was a bit of partner usage in the latest area that I played through, and I hope there's more of that implemented in the rest of the game, but there's a lot more they could have done with the partner system to spice things up.

With that said, I'm still really enjoying my time with this game and hope it continues getting better as I approach the endgame. Like I said, I'm really happy I can enjoy a new game in the series, even if it wasn't the direction many of us were hoping the series would go. I feel there's a lot to like in this game, and I hope some of you are getting something out of it too.
 
Guybrush20X6

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More questionable quotes from Paper Mario interviews.

https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2...ty_to_change_the_combat_system_in_every_entry

"Striving to find new and innovative systems is the foundation of the philosophy my team and I are following when developing games. As such, I think it’s a necessity that the combat system changes in every game."

That's all very well but... then why the crap did Color Splash have the exact same combat system that everybody hated?
 
Rikarte

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MegaMarioMan9 said:
Hey folks, I disappeared from here for a bit to try and avoid spoilers for TOK, but wanted to finally pop in to mention my experience with the game so far. I'm pretty much exactly at the halfway point, so I'm comfortable stating my opinions on the game at this point. I'll probably do something similar when I finally complete the game too, with more spoilery mentions and full thoughts on everything. For now I'll keep things general and non-spoilery.

So, most importantly: I like it. Is it going to surpass my love for the first 3 games? Probably not, but for the first time in a long while, I'm happy to enjoy a new game in the series. I have a few issues with the game which I'll go over, but I think that overall the positives outweigh the negatives by a lot.

To start, the writing is very good. I still don't know if the overarching story is particularly incredible, but there's elements that make it infinitely better than SS and CS. (non-Bowser main villain, hurrah!) The story is no SPM, but it's not bad. There have been a couple of emotionally impactful moments though, which I welcome. Won't go into them since it's kinda spoiler territory. Anyway, where the writing mostly shines is the moment-to-moment writing. LOTS of great jokes, both verbal and visual, I've laughed a number of times, it's great.

Paper-centric aesthetics are still a thing, but in this game more than ever they fit quite well and the game wouldn't really exist without them, both in terms of gameplay and story. The origami style is really lovely to look at, and the world themes are way more interesting than the stock-standard, generic Mario stuff. Music is excellent, on par with the best of the series imo. Many of the battle themes especially are extremely catchy, and having the main battle theme change styles per area is a nice change of pace.

As for the battle system, I enjoy it overall. When the puzzles aren't baby-easy, it's really satisfying to get the correct enemy lineups. I've always been a fan of spacial puzzles like this, so I understand that this is maybe the aspect of the game that could divide people the most. I really like it, but others may not, so I acknowledge the game might not be for everyone because of it. Especially when it comes to the more simplistic action commands, which is where I feel the battle system kinda falters. Unlike in 64 and TTYD where there's a wealth of interesting action commands, this game pretty much boils the commands down to pressing the A button at the right time. There's at least different enemy types which will require the awareness of using certain types of jumps/hammers and items, but this is probably my biggest gripe with the game, and why I'm kinda afraid that additional playthroughs might not be as fun. I'm having a great time with this first playthrough though, so let's get back on topic. The other big thing worth mentioning is of course the boss battles, which I find really fun. The difficulty of each boss seems kinda variable, as I've had a much easier time with some later bosses than earlier ones, but they're all fun in their own way and each has its own unique gimmicks to spice things up. This is also generally where the 1,000 fold arms see the most creative use; I think they're kinda gimmicky outside of boss battles, but they have more interesting uses within the bosses.

Finally I just wanted to point out my few issues with the game. The thing that's stood out to me in my recent playtime is some backtracking issues, which is usually either because of the game's instructions not being quite clear enough, or just being required outright. The biggest offender was when I accidentally missed reading a piece of text on the wall and ended up running around the entire area trying to figure out how to get down to a certain location, and then (without spoiling exactly what it was I was doing), there were a number of objects I could activate, only one of which was correct, and I ended up trial-and-erroring it since I missed the text that hinted toward the correct answer. Notably, some incorrect choices resulted in enemy encounters. I'll take partial blame for that one, but even when I tried to use Olivia's hint system to guide me to what I was supposed to do next, she didn't give me any useful information. Outside of that there were just a few general backtracking issues; nothing new to a Paper Mario veteran, I guess. :p I already stated my issue with the battle system, so the only other nitpick I wanted to make is that the overworld feels like it could be fleshed out a little more in one aspect, that being the usage of partners. Traversing the world mostly comes down to jumping and hammering, with the occasional use of the 1,000 fold arms. It'd be a lot more interesting if you had to use partner abilities like the first 3 games to traverse areas and solve puzzles. There was a bit of partner usage in the latest area that I played through, and I hope there's more of that implemented in the rest of the game, but there's a lot more they could have done with the partner system to spice things up.

With that said, I'm still really enjoying my time with this game and hope it continues getting better as I approach the endgame. Like I said, I'm really happy I can enjoy a new game in the series, even if it wasn't the direction many of us were hoping the series would go. I feel there's a lot to like in this game, and I hope some of you are getting something out of it too.
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You pretty much summed up my exact thoughts there. Agreed with everything you said minus the battle system which is something I'm not a big fan of. Solving the puzzles is fun but afterwards it just comes down to one-shotting every enemy. Not much strategy involved outside of picking the right weapon for the right enemies. Shame because I think that this could have easily been the most interesting battle system in the series if puzzle solving and actual combat would have been a bit more balanced. Huge wasted potential in my eyes. Oh well, at least the bosses are great. Very clever way to utilize the ring gimmick.
Also MAN, do those fights have good music, especially towards the end of the game! Can't get enough of the Tape battle theme, this song has been stuck in my head for days now. If PM, or any Mario RPG character for that matter, gets into Smash I really hope he brings some of this game's OSTs with him.

Guybrush20X6 said:
More questionable quotes from Paper Mario interviews.

https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2...ty_to_change_the_combat_system_in_every_entry

"Striving to find new and innovative systems is the foundation of the philosophy my team and I are following when developing games. As such, I think it’s a necessity that the combat system changes in every game."

That's all very well but... then why the crap did Color Splash have the exact same combat system that everybody hated?
Click to expand...
No no no no, you see: In Sticker Star you used stickers but in Color Splash you had to paint your cards! It's completely different!

...man, I was kinda wishing they'd keep the ring system for at least one more game so they could improve and experiment with it... or, you know, just go back to the original style?

Also hi, I'd like to be added to the supporter list!
 
meleebrawler

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You know, change can just as easily refer to refinements to an existing system as overhauls. TTYD is very much a different beast from the original with Superguarding, partners with actual HP and the audience, just as Color Splash feels different with permanent extra move upgrades, a roulette for extra cards instead of the former, and of course managing paint.
 
KirbyWorshipper2465

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meleebrawler said:
It takes monster sales to convince devs to stick with a winning formula for a long time.
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Even updated ports work at doing that: NSMBUDX got nice sales even with Super Mario Maker 2 being in the same timeframe. It's only remakes of a winning formula that's a big risk if the diminishing returns aren't covered (see Mario & Luigi).
 
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meleebrawler

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Therein lies the rub; if your formula is only getting modest success at best, how do you expect sticking to it to eventually turn it into a much bigger one?

Sometimes there is room for improvement that can do the job (this was easier to accomplish in older days with weaker hardware and faster advancement allowing bigger jumps), but most of the time you're not drawing in any interest from those that weren't before. And the ones that are tend to point to pretty much any reason for their series not doing well beyond just not being very appealing at large. Or they actually take pride in being a small group and chafe at mainstream appeal.
 
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Mushroomguy12

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Happy 20th Anniversary to Paper Mario N64!

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TheBeastHimself

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I have always been really into Mario RPGs, I've beaten all of the Mario & Luigi games as well as Super Mario RPG, but would you believe I've never gotten into Paper Mario? I have good news!

About a week ago I've begun to play my first game in the series, Paper Mario 64! And I'm making this post here because I've just come across the most legendary thing I think I've ever seen in a Mario RPG game... I gave a really fat Shy Guy some cake, and he had one of the greatest reactions to it I've ever seen. I'm sure you guys know what I'm talking about, that zoom up... LOL
 
Staarih

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So I just finished the story of The Origami King (I’m late, I know, life is busy) and it’s easily one of the best Paper Mario’s imo. I’d personally put it right under TTYD (nothing will ever beat that). I loved the story, progression, puzzles, writing and worlds in the game. While the normal battles are kinda meh, the boss battles were quite innovative and I found myself scratching my head a few times. The final boss was surprisingly easy though, but boy was it a show. Lots of sentimental parts as well. Overall, I really enjoyed it and if this is the route they’re taking Paper Mario, I’m okay with it. Though a full-on RPG would be welcome, I was never against SS or CS, and TOK was super fun. Now on to finding anyhing I missed and 100% the game!
 
KirbyWorshipper2465

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Well, that's all she wrote. Sorry, lads.


Though at least they used the most important original characters.
 
TheBeastHimself

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Not to be a pessimist, but this does seem to be a dent in Paper Mario's chances because these spirits would've been saved for the actual Paper Mario Spirit Board if he were to get in as a character.

However, there's still always a chance that this means nothing and it's mere coincidence, so I wouldn't lose complete hope yet.
 
zumaddy

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While this isn't an outright deconfirmation, it definitely begs the question why Olivia, Olly and Peach wouldn't come on a DLC Spirit Board with Paper Mario himself. It's true they could always reappear since Min Min did have old spirits on hers, but then why would they release them before the fighter post-launch?

Not looking good.
 
Guybrush20X6

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Not a killing blow but doesn't bode too well by itself.
Still, glad to have some spirits from the game in.
 
A

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Again, I stand by intentions, and this reeks of no intention to add him. A shame really. Would have been a good first party fighter. Hopefully this doesn't mean we're veering back into a fighter pass 1 direction.
 
KirbyWorshipper2465

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Let's not fret here, as usual I'm going to show my balanced view about this.

If they're adding any other first-parties for playable purposes at all, I find it interesting that they're setting aside most of their safe evergreen Switch properties so far (e.g. Astral Chain, Ring Fit and now Origami King), so at this point we'd only get one or two more. Besides, this can potentially allow some third-party fan favorites to be included before DLC finishes.

And we still only have one fighter. We don't know how this will go at all.
 
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Staarih

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To be honest, I never truly expected to see Paper Mario as one the DLC characters as much as I want him in. As such, I’m kinda neutral with these new spirits added, actually it’s kinda neat that TOK is acknowledged at all, as I found it to be a really good game.

I do hope Paper Mario does make it some day though. It irks me to see people be like ”eww a third Mario” or ”i don’t want Paper Mario because he’d be based on the recent games”. Like, anyone who actually knows PM knows that he would be the farthest of a ”third Mario”, even the hammer alone does it not to mention his all kinds of paper abilities. As for being based on recent games, well, apart from stickers/paint/confetti Paper Mario has still inherently remained pretty much the same as a character, his abilities have just shifted around. Knowing Sakurai, he would probably take references around the board, not just the newest entry. And tbh, the Thousand-Fold Arms would make for a good attack, for example.

Anyway, it’ll be interesting to see if any Mario character, let alone another first party, will be part of the second pass. Waluigi and Geno seem to be the ones people bank on now regarding Mario newcomers, so we’ll see. It it kinda intriguing that Luigi’s Mansion 3 has yet to receive a spirit event, being one of the only new releases not to have one (yet), though there may be no particular reason for that.
 
KirbyWorshipper2465

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Staarih said:
To be honest, I never truly expected to see Paper Mario as one the DLC characters as much as I want him in. As such, I’m kinda neutral with these new spirits added, actually it’s kinda neat that TOK is acknowledged at all, as I found it to be a really good game.

I do hope Paper Mario does make it some day though. It irks me to see people be like ”eww a third Mario” or ”i don’t want Paper Mario because he’d be based on the recent games”. Like, anyone who actually knows PM knows that he would be the farthest of a ”third Mario”, even the hammer alone does it not to mention his all kinds of paper abilities. As for being based on recent games, well, apart from stickers/paint/confetti Paper Mario has still inherently remained pretty much the same as a character, his abilities have just shifted around. Knowing Sakurai, he would probably take references around the board, not just the newest entry. And tbh, the Thousand-Fold Arms would make for a good attack, for example.

Anyway, it’ll be interesting to see if any Mario character, let alone another first party, will be part of the second pass. Waluigi and Geno seem to be the ones people bank on now regarding Mario newcomers, so we’ll see. It it kinda intriguing that Luigi’s Mansion 3 has yet to receive a spirit event, being one of the only new releases not to have one (yet), though there may be no particular reason for that.
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It is definitely interesting. The spirit team has zero reason to ignore Luigi's Mansion 3, so I guess we'll see if anything will be done about that by Christmas.

But yeah, it's best to continue support for Paper Mario after this game's done. His series is still going for now, and there aren't too many obvious Marioverse picks left.
 
KirbyMonadoBoy

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This is really sad... I wanted Paper Mario so much and I thought he had a decent chance considering the recent release of The Origami King... Out of all first party characters, Paper Mario is the one big candidate / franchise that was still missing in Smash (as a playable fighter) and imo there is no other Nintendo character that would have deserved it more than Paper Mario. My only hope now is that we could maybe get some more Paper Mario music via Geno, another Mario RPG character which hopefully will be revealed as a DLC fighter.
 
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Mushroomguy12

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You say that but an official Nintendo twitter actually acknowledged the existence of TTYD today.

 
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A

Arthur97

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The Japanese website his all of them. It's not like they are hiding the first two games for crying out loud. Besides, Paper Jam isn't even a Paper Mario game. It's very distinctly a Mario & Luigi game. Now if only they had released a collection for that series instead of wasting time remaking BiS.

Edit: It seems the emulator they use for Mario 64 in All Stars references Mario Story AKA, Paper Mario among other games.
 
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rychu_supadude

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Steve's reveal really brought home for me the difficulties of making Paper Mario work as a character. The team put so much effort into ensuring that each new character faithfully represents their original series... but Paper Mario really doesn't have a consistent gameplay identity, which is a huge negative given that the main reason to add an alternate version of an existing character is for their gameplay.

Two RPGs, a platformer, two weird hybrids, and an action-adventure? How do you represent that? It's hardly impossible but I feel that it must be more trouble than it's worth. As much as I wish this wasn't the case, I don't think it's a B-K situation where they can just draw from the first two games - the other titles have their own legion of fans, and Nintendo clearly considers them just as valid if not more so.

I hope I'm not being too much of a downer here, but this... is a tough one. At least we have the stage.
 
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