Data PacMan's M & Ms (Metagame and Match-Up) Discussion Thread

[Nu~]

is it one of those combos that is guaranteed but training mode doesn't label it as one? Or something like that, I've heard of combos being guranteed by only off by a few frames so training mode doesn't count it

Yeah. Training mode will count it sometimes and fail other times. You have to quickly fastfall and throw the key/bell if you want it to true combo. Either way, the opponent shouldn't have enough frames to escape.

 

[BSP]

Mario, Sonic, ZSS, Rosalina and possibly the Star Fox characters.

Mario: do what @ Nu~ said and hide behind hydrants + trampolines. Pester Mario as he approaches with Fair, Bair, Utilt, pivot Fsmash, dtilt, and Usmash. He will beat you in straight up CQC, so attempt to control the ground and force him to approach in awkward ways. Don't be surprised if the MU goes to time. Your OOS game needs to be down pat for this MU btw, and you'll probably lose if you let Mario get away with stuff on your shield that isn't safe. Have up B and Nair OOS mastered.

Sonic: do similar to Mario except much more trampoline heavy. You need to have a trampoline out at nearly all times, or else Sonic will have his way with you in neutral. While he is fast, you should be able to shut down the spin dash game for the most part with fruit, jab, tilts, and trampoline. My advice is camping the ledge and focusing on punishing Sonic for attempting to get to you. I'm going to upload some vids of me vs. Brawlman in tournament recently. I haven't won against him yet in a set, but I still don't feel that the MU is any worse than 40:60. Most of our games are usually 1-3 hits away from going in the other player's favor.

ZSS: haven't played this one offline in a while, but hydrant and trampoline exacerbate her weak neutral. My best advice is to keep an eye on her and try to punish when she attempts to start something up in neutral. In general, she should be the initiator in the MU, lest you get setup time + whatever fruit you want. Do not get bullied by Flip Jump. Airdodge and force her into the footstool animation, or challenge it after the invincibility but before the kick comes out. Do not let ZSS players feel like they can get away with the move in neutral against you. Fair -> Key at high % is fairly reliable on ZSS as well.

Rosalina: this is a grueling MU that takes forever IMO. I recommend camping hard and forcing Rosalina to come to you by constantly Fair launching hydrants. Heal off of Gravitational Pull on reaction, but don't be so focused on healing that you miss opportunities to punish Rosalina. Use Dair to send Luma into tumble at any %, and don't be afraid to challenge Rosalina's Fair/Bair/Nair aerials with your own. Hydrant beats her Uair, so she shouldn't be able to juggle you easily. This is another MU where I'd recommend having a trampoline out at nearly all times to control her grounded game. Also, remember that fruit thrown from hand can't be picked back up. Get fruits in your hand if Rosalina is giving you time to set up. I think we lose the MU, but only 40:60.

Fox: similar to Sonic. Fox doesn't have direct KO options out of throws, but his Usmash is fear inducing. Luckily for you, Pac-Man has the perfect move to screw over his neutral. Always have a trampoline out and charge up to what you want / need. When Fox approaches, pester him. Unlike most reflectors, Fox's is actually a pretty solid commitment unless he actually reflects something. Because of this, he shouldn't be throwing it out as liberally as some other characters would. Use this to your advantage. In CQC, Fox's jab is a beast, but I found that our own tilts and jab are good for fighting back at any distance that isn't point blank. Use orange when edgeguarding to hit Fox out of side B, and I recommend jumping out there to put pressure on Fox. You need to harass him as much as possible when he's offstage, so don't waste time charging when you could be setting a trap or jumping offstage to hit him.

Falco: haven't played this MU in tournament, but I think our zoning is powerful enough to keep Falco at bay. He doesn't have much mobility, and he can't camp us really because of hydrant + power pellet. I recommend doing typical zoning with hydrant/trampoline and charging to what you want for a setup. I'm speaking mostly from the perspective of the opponent trying to force a conflict, because that's what smart people will do against Pac-Man. Pester Falco like any other opponent when he attempts to cross your trampoline, and always be mindful of his reflector when you're using your fire hydrant. TBH, I rarely launch it at him in the MU because it's very much an obstacle to him if you don't. His lasers take a while to launch it, reflector takes 3 shots IIRC, otherwise he's knocking it over with tilts or something. IDK, play the MU like Luigi, except mind the reflector + much better vertical mobility. Also, if you read a reflector toss, try rolling at him -> punish, powershield to running Nair, or PS to dash grab.

 

[Splebel]

I played a Falco in a tournament by this guy named Boss (His Luigi destroyed me) and I beat him by keeping the trampoline up, a lot of the lower fruits (cherry, strawberry, orange apple). Orange for the gimps and the rest were SH/FJ to go over the reflector. Don't bother launching the hydrant much as Falco will just spam reflect at it. If he likes to spam lasers throw a Melon (or orange maybe, I like the melon) as it has too much endlag if they fire repeatedly and you're around Midrange. Some like to do this as a way to not jump over the trampoline. I feel like aerial approachs work well against him.

Definitely take Falco to Duck Hunt. We benefit in this matchup on that stage.

Also this guy didn't do this and I don't usually see this but Fox (and I assume Falco) can do a TINY jump and Side B over the trampoline and smack you if you are too close and unprepared like how sometimes they get back on stage by jumping off the ledge and then immediately Side B onto the stage.

 

[Froggy]

XD this guy named Boss

 

[Splebel]

I found out who he was later and I was like, geez no wonder why I lost to his Luigi.

I didn't expect someone like that at my local town's tournament over 60-70 miles from the nearest Big City.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Hey PAC people, the boards would like your input on the MU PLEASE

link to the thread
http://smashboards.com/threads/the-...-rediscussing-us.400052/page-10#post-19900202

 

[NimbusSpark]

I understand I have also said this in the Kirby MU thread, but I have tested most of the grab combos which Kirby can do these against Pac-Man when using Bonus Fruit. Have fun!

F-Throw > Cherry - 9% Damage, can be done from approx. 0% to 50%.
F-Throw > Strawberry - 10% Damage, can be done from approx. 10% to %, requires a second jump past %.
F-Throw > Orange - 12% Damage, can be done from approx 0% to 40%.
F-Throw > Apple - 14% Damage, can be done from approx. 0% to 30%, can be done after a second jump at 40% to 65%, but is most reliable after 50%.
F-Throw > Melon - 17% Damage, can be done from approx. 0% to 50%, but is most reliable before 40%.
F-Throw > Galaxian - Either 14% or 23% Damage depending on hits, can be done from approx. 0% to 50%.
F-Throw > Bell - 13% Damage, can be done from approx. 0% to 80%, but is most reliable before 60%.
F-Throw > Key - 20% Damage, can be done from approx. 0% to 40%, can be done after a second jump at 55% to 80%. This will not kill Pac-Man at the edge of the stage, therefore is not a kill confirm.

B-Throw > Turnaround Cherry - 12% Damage, can be done from approx 5% to 20%, but is most reliable before 10%.
B-Throw > Turnaround Strawberry - 13% Damage, can be done from approx 0% to 30%, but is most reliable before 15%.
B-Throw > Turnaround Orange - 16% Damage, can be done from approx 0% to 40%, but is most reliable before 15%.
B-Throw > Turnaround Apple - 17% Damage, can be done from approx 0% to 20%.
B-Throw > Turnaround Melon - 20% Damage, can be done from approx 0% to 15% with quick reactions.
B-Throw > Turnaround Galaxian - Either 17% or 26% Damage depending on hits, can be done from approx 0% to 35%, but is most reliable before 20%
B-Throw > Turnaround Key - 23% Damage, can be done from approx 0% to 60%. At percentages as little as 55%, this combo can actually kill Pac-Man at the ledge. Can be done after a second jump at 65% to 85%.

WARNING: All of these values have been tested in Training Mode, therefore DI and Rage could be other potential factors. Not all of these combos are true!

 

[Jenny Wakeman]

what are thoughts on roy matchup? i think it might be pac losing, since he has gross knockback, high pressure, and his aerials can negate every fruit, and since theyre quick and nearly lagless, they can just spam them. Also fsmash and up b are disgusting.

 

[Splebel]

what are thoughts on roy matchup? i think it might be pac losing, since he has gross knockback, high pressure, and his aerials can negate every fruit, and since theyre quick and nearly lagless, they can just spam them. Also fsmash and up b are disgusting.

I've had someone fight me and tell me that Roy has an answer for everything Pacman throws out. To be fair he also could've been better than me and not Pacman himself.

Trampoline makes Roy approach from the air so he can be dealt with a little easier that way but the quickness of them makes it a little difficult. I actually have problems with aerials negating all of Pac's fruit with Roy, Marth, and Lucina. I personally find it a little unfair. If you want to make Pac top tier I think key should never lose it's hitbox . What I think is real disgusting against Roy is his neutral seems to not have any ending lag.

I personally think it's like the Marth Matchup except you REALLY want to stay away from him.

 

[Jenny Wakeman]

I've had someone fight me and tell me that Roy has an answer for everything Pacman throws out. To be fair he also could've been better than me and not Pacman himself.

Trampoline makes Roy approach from the air so he can be dealt with a little easier that way but the quickness of them makes it a little difficult. I actually have problems with aerials negating all of Pac's fruit with Roy, Marth, and Lucina. I personally find it a little unfair. If you want to make Pac top tier I think key should never lose it's hitbox . What I think is real disgusting against Roy is his neutral seems to not have any ending lag.

I personally think it's like the Marth Matchup except you REALLY want to stay away from him.

I agree, in my list of buffs I have for PAC I think the fruits should have higher priority and key specifically should have more kill power.

Roy is a ridiculous character in my opinion because his nair and neutral b (why???) have no ending lag to punish, his up b can kill relatively early oos, and his fsmash can kill at 70. i think the matchup is at least 60/40 in roys favor.

 

[Nu~]

The only lagless aerials Roy has are Fair (only due to his IASA frames) and his nair which is an easy approach since it's positive on shield.

I don't find this to be difficult at all. As long as you don't sit back and throw your fruit predictably, his aerials shouldn't be stopping all of your fruit. Just like with every other projectile character whose projectiles lose to swords (mega man, villager, Samus missiles) we have to mix it up and use fruit as an extension of ourselves rather than a keep away tool. Use item tossed fruits as well with DITCIT and z dropping to mix up your fruit game.

Roy has to be close and prefers to be in the ground, so trampolines mess up his approach very nicely. Hydrants help too since he undergoes high hit lag (even higher than his normal attacks have) when he hits it, allowing us to punish him.

I would play this matchup very defensively since he has to be close. I find this matchup to be easier than marth since he has less range and is forced to have to get in deeper.
I would fight him like captain falcon.

Edit:
I'm not sure if "being able to hit our fruit and beat them" is a valid reason for a difficult matchup because literally every character can do that. The fruit have weird priority in where they can absorb samus's missile, but clash with a fire ball. We get around this by always following up on our fruit. We can't spam them like needles or fireballs because they aren't too fast and work best when combined with an attack or follow up pressure.

I'm not sure if our key will ever get buffed either because a z droppable item with even more kill power than the current key is kinda stupid lol.
The only buff I would want to see is a better grab or our old trampoline. There is nothing else I would change unless I wanted to make pacman the best character in the game.

We're viable as is imo, but a grab buff can push us into top tier territory.

 

[Gidy]

The only lagless aerials Roy has are Fair (only due to his IASA frames) and his nair which is an easy approach since it's positive on shield.

I don't find this to be difficult at all. As long as you don't sit back and throw your fruit predictably, his aerials shouldn't be stopping all of your fruit. Just like with every other projectile character whose projectiles lose to swords (mega man, villager, Samus missiles) we have to mix it up and use fruit as an extension of ourselves rather than a keep away tool. Use item tossed fruits as well with DITCIT and z dropping to mix up your fruit game.

Roy has to be close and prefers to be in the ground, so trampolines mess up his approach very nicely. Hydrants help too since he undergoes high hit lag (even higher than his normal attacks have) when he hits it, allowing us to punish him.

I would play this matchup very defensively since he has to be close. I find this matchup to be easier than marth since he has less range and is forced to have to get in deeper.
I would fight him like captain falcon.

Edit:
I'm not sure if "being able to hit our fruit and beat them" is a valid reason for a difficult matchup because literally every character can do that. The fruit have weird priority in where they can absorb samus's missile, but clash with a fire ball. We get around this by always following up on our fruit. We can't spam them like needles or fireballs because they aren't too fast and work best when combined with an attack or follow up pressure.

I'm not sure if our key will ever get buffed either because a z droppable item with even more kill power than the current key is kinda stupid lol.
The only buff I would want to see is a better grab or our old trampoline. There is nothing else I would change unless I wanted to make pacman the best character in the game.

We're viable as is imo, but a grab buff can push us into top tier territory.

Roy can jump over the trampoline and pressure pacman with fair then jump out of fair before it lands or keep the pressure going with his eruption and dancing blade before he lands with fair to avoid getting punished with fair landing lag. Roy may be better on the ground, but in the air he can shark and chase you much like Fox. The only time he isn't gonna wanna chase you is if he's trying to recover, obviously.

Because of the disjoint in the sword it will always beat the fruit without trading with Roy. If Pacmans throwing an orange Roy can literally just short hop fair and won't get hit at all. If a fruit gets thrown on shield Roy can grab the fruit before it disappears while covering him self with Nair. Any option Pacman has to punish Roy for nairing and grabbing to fruit won't work because it's too slow.

As someone who is a bit experienced in the Pacman MU as a Mario and Roy main, I say Pacman loses to Roy 6/4. The one good perk Pacman has against Roy is the ability to throw is angled fruit to edge guard Roy, but other then that I think it's rough for him.

 

[Nu~]

Roy can jump over the trampoline and pressure pacman with fair then jump out of fair before it lands or keep the pressure going with his eruption and dancing blade before he lands with fair to avoid getting punished with fair landing lag. Roy may be better on the ground, but in the air he can shark and chase you much like Fox. The only time he isn't gonna wanna chase you is if he's trying to recover, obviously.

Because of the disjoint in the sword it will always beat the fruit without trading with Roy. If Pacmans throwing an orange Roy can literally just short hop fair and won't get hit at all. If a fruit gets thrown on shield Roy can grab the fruit before it disappears while covering him self with Nair. Any option Pacman has to punish Roy for nairing and grabbing to fruit won't work because it's too slow.

As someone who is a bit experienced in the Pacman MU as a Mario and Roy main, I say Pacman loses to Roy 6/4. The one good perk Pacman has against Roy is the ability to throw is angled fruit to edge guard Roy, but other then that I think it's rough for him.

You would have to space pretty damn well then or else I would clip you with our invincible, disjointed utilt. Converting into a Dancing blade or flare blade will get you punished with an Usmash OoS.
Roy also has pretty bad inertia in the air, so outside of Fair, he is commiting when he comes at us in the air. Nair gives you a safe approach, but if we predict it, we can perfect pivot back and beat out the attack with blinky. Something every pacman main should do against predictable sh approaches.

I wouldn't throw many fruit at you that aren't from the hand. You can't catch a fruit that's been thrown from the hand, so that's free pressure on our side.
If the fruit isn't out of my hand, I would sh air dodge (if close enough) to catch my fruit and avoid your nair. We have a SHAD approach just like the marth's, so Roy would have to look out for that.

I don't know, it seems like you aren't fighting against a Pac-Man that is utilizing all of his options. I see this matchup as even or slight advantage for us. I don't like ratios

Edit: Roy's nair is positive on shield. Even if we had a grab, we wouldn't be able to grab you. You beat Roy's nair by out spacing it.

 

[Froggy]

Fight Roy, Marth and Lucina like Falcon. Always have a trampoline in front of you.

 

[Gidy]

You would have to space pretty damn well then or else I would clip you with our invincible, disjointed utilt. Converting into a Dancing blade or flare blade will get you punished with an Usmash OoS.
Roy also has pretty bad inertia in the air, so outside of Fair, he is commiting when he comes at us in the air. Nair gives you a safe approach, but if we predict it, we can perfect pivot back and beat out the attack with blinky. Something every pacman main should do against predictable sh approaches.

I wouldn't throw many fruit at you that aren't from the hand. You can't catch a fruit that's been thrown from the hand, so that's free pressure on our side.
If the fruit isn't out of my hand, I would sh air dodge (if close enough) to catch my fruit and avoid your nair. We have a SHAD approach just like the marth's, so Roy would have to look out for that.

I don't know, it seems like you aren't fighting against a Pac-Man that is utilizing all of his options. I see this matchup as even or slight advantage for us. I don't like ratios

Edit: Roy's nair is positive on shield. Even if we had a grab, we wouldn't be able to grab you. You beat Roy's nair by out spacing it.

Roy has many different approach options so to think that you you would punish every thing that I am gonna do to approach is thinking very black and white. Roy can:

Short Hop Nair Fast Fall
Short Hop Fair Jump back
Short Hop Fair Jump forward come down with Uair
Short Hop Fair Neutral B
Short Hop Fair Side B
Short Hop Fair Counter
Eruption Approach since it's safe on shield
Short Hop Tomahawk Grab
or even just run up and shield to bait your Fsmash

Mixing up approaches are key with this character, so you may be able to get a prediction or two, but it's not gonna be consistent throughout the match. And Pac-mans Utilt is only disjointed for 1 frame, so you are putting a lot of faith in to that move if you think you can challenge it with a consistent disjointed sword. Also, a good Roy would know how to space his aerials.

Even if you catch your fruit and throw it at me I can throw out a Fair or Nair, even while approaching, taking away the priority from the fruit. Short Hop Air Dodge won't work to catch the fruit either because it takes longer for you to run up and air dodge vs. me to jump out of shield and Nair

@ Froggy Trampoline doesn't work because Roy's approach lets him just short hop Fair/Nair or empty short hop over it with ease. Roy has the 3rd fastest aerial mobility in the game.

 

[Splebel]

Roy has many different approach options so to think that you you would punish every thing that I am gonna do to approach is thinking very black and white. Roy can:

Short Hop Nair Fast Fall
Short Hop Fair Jump back
Short Hop Fair Jump forward come down with Uair
Short Hop Fair Neutral B
Short Hop Fair Side B
Short Hop Fair Counter
Eruption Approach since it's safe on shield
Short Hop Tomahawk Grab
or even just run up and shield to bait your Fsmash

Mixing up approaches are key with this character, so you may be able to get a prediction or two, but it's not gonna be consistent throughout the match. And Pac-mans Utilt is only disjointed for 1 frame, so you are putting a lot of faith in to that move if you think you can challenge it with a consistent disjointed sword. Also, a good Roy would know how to space his aerials.

Even if you catch your fruit and throw it at me I can throw out a Fair or Nair, even while approaching, taking away the priority from the fruit. Short Hop Air Dodge won't work to catch the fruit either because it takes longer for you to run up and air dodge vs. me to jump out of shield and Nair

@ Froggy Trampoline doesn't work because Roy's approach lets him just short hop Fair/Nair or empty short hop over it with ease. Roy has the 3rd fastest aerial mobility in the game.

Most of those are SH and with Trampoline out it's guaranteed so we have an advantage in the fact we know where you will be when approaching. Also most of those are Fairs so we have a good idea of what you can do and if SH Fair is safe then that's a Sheik tier move.

 

[Nu~]

Roy has many different approach options so to think that you you would punish every thing that I am gonna do to approach is thinking very black and white. Roy can:

Short Hop Nair Fast Fall
Short Hop Fair Jump back
Short Hop Fair Jump forward come down with Uair
Short Hop Fair Neutral B
Short Hop Fair Side B
Short Hop Fair Counter
Eruption Approach since it's safe on shield
Short Hop Tomahawk Grab
or even just run up and shield to bait your Fsmash

Mixing up approaches are key with this character, so you may be able to get a prediction or two, but it's not gonna be consistent throughout the match. And Pac-mans Utilt is only disjointed for 1 frame, so you are putting a lot of faith in to that move if you think you can challenge it with a consistent disjointed sword. Also, a good Roy would know how to space his aerials.

Even if you catch your fruit and throw it at me I can throw out a Fair or Nair, even while approaching, taking away the priority from the fruit. Short Hop Air Dodge won't work to catch the fruit either because it takes longer for you to run up and air dodge vs. me to jump out of shield and Nair

@ Froggy Trampoline doesn't work because Roy's approach lets him just short hop Fair/Nair or empty short hop over it with ease. Roy has the 3rd fastest aerial mobility in the game.

To be honest, those approaches are still kinda linear since they mostly start with Fair.
Also, his utilt may be disjointed for 1 frame, but it's invincible for longer.
You don't have to tell me about how a good Roy would space his aerials, I'm aware of that. Just know that you don't exactly have much room to space when the tip of his blade deals little damage and knock back that we can punish well.
Roy isn't top 3 in aerial mobility, just aerial speed. Keep in mind that his inertia is forcing him to commit to every aerial that isn't Fair. If you miss, you take heavy damage. If you Fair and jump back, we can nail you with a key. All of those approaches lose to shield outside of Nair and maybe flare blade. We, on the other hand can Fair hydrants at you and trampoline you if you shield or roll and SHAD -> Bair if you jump. The best thing you have on us is run up and shield which is nullified with a trampoline out.


But enough about approaches, let's talk about disadvantage. When Roy is in the air, we can juggle him with up air, bells, and upwards tossed fruit. It isn't that bad since he is a fast faller, but that only makes it easier to combo him (we can chain utilt 3 times at low percentage)

Meanwhile, hydrant goes through your up air and we can weave through the air better than you. You can beat out our aerials if spaced well, but once again, you are commiting to an aerial option once you hit the button while moving forward.

In advantage, Roy can combo us and kill us very early. Fortunately, we are a bit floaty so we don't take as much damage in your combos. In our advantage, we can combo you easily due to your weight and fall speed specs.

I still don't believe that you can fair every fruit on reaction unless the pacman player is predicable and/or immobile while throwing his fruit.

 

[Gidy]

I don't know man, you are thinking about things in black and white and equationally. I can only say it would look better in match because that's where everything is put to the test and actually matter. It may sound good on paper, but so do characters like Shulk.

 

[Splebel]

I still don't believe that you can fair every fruit on reaction unless the pacman player is predicable and/or immobile while throwing his fruit.

You know I think that but it always gets tested every time I fight someone who perfect shields/grabs my fruit no matter where they are or where I am or what fruit it is.

 

[Nu~]

I don't know man, you are thinking about things in black and white and equationally. I can only say it would look better in match because that's where everything is put to the test and actually matter. It may sound good on paper, but so do characters like Shulk.

Yeah, matchup discussions normally go that way man :/
It's hard to discuss all options with just words. There is a lot more to the match than it seems on paper. Although, you did give me a rather contrived answer by listing options and responses (especially with the whole "we can fair all fruit" thing) so I replied with a silver lining between what you originally believed. I gave counter options and "ifs" but I guess that's what made it seem cause and effect. Not really black and white.

Edit:
The advantage and disadvantage were heavily simplified because I got lazy

You know I think that but it always gets tested every time I fight someone who perfect shields/grabs my fruit no matter where they are or where I am or what fruit it is.

You may just need to follow up better on your fruit. They aren't meant to be spammed, you have to use them in unique ways to mix up the opponent.

 

[Froggy]

catch the fruit either because it takes longer for you to run up and air dodge vs. me to jump out of shield and Nair

@ Froggy Trampoline doesn't work because Roy's approach lets him just short hop Fair/Nair or empty short hop over it with ease. Roy has the 3rd fastest aerial mobility in the game.

Bair beats all of those, it also forces him to commit to an areal which is never in his favor.

 

[Nu~]

Bair beats all of those, it also forces him to commit to an areal which is never in his favor.

In speed? Because I know it can't beat it in disjoint

 

[Froggy]

In speed? Because I know it can't beat it in disjoint

in frame data and hit boxes

 

[Gidy]

in frame data and hit boxes

I could just Fair then.

 

[Froggy]

I could just Fair then.

Fair will trade or lose to Roy's aerials, keeping in mind how little damage it does it's just not a good idea to wall with that.

 

[Splebel]

Fair will trade or lose to Roy's aerials, keeping in mind how little damage it does it's just not a good idea to wall with that.

I think he was talking about Roy's Fair

 

[Nu~]

@Zage
@ BSP
@fromundaman
Do you guys have any insight on the Roy matchup?

 

[IGaMeOvErI]

How do you guys approach Dedede? The gordos are such a ***** to deal with and the recovery frames on his smashes are very difficult to punish. I've only experienced this on For Glory. Could it be I'm not used to the lag so I'm missing these punishes by a few frames?

Dedede Gordos can be a pain there's probably to things that should work try to sheild it then dash attack or if all elese fails hit it back at him.

 

[MachoCheeze]

My friend has a good Roy and I play it a lot like the Falcon MU. Lot's of trampolines and harassment from afar. Gimping him plays a huge role in the MU IMO.

NEVER EVER try and grab Roy though. His forward smash is dumb as hell lmao and if you whiff your grab then GG to Pac.

 

[Nu~]

I want to know what Roy can do to us if we have a trampoline near the ledge and sit behind it.

That's a free key charge every time we retreat to the ledge since he won't be able to land safely. If he Fairs and jumps back, that just lets us charge again. Everything else will get him punished since he has so little room to land on.

 

[Maziyah]

Roy is another patient match up as stated above very similar to falcon , you dont gotta play campy but this mu isreally fruit heavy due to roy having good strings and kill power, me personally i play this mu with a ton of hydrant baiting, punishing him when he launches the hydrant or tries to avoid it.

 

[Gidy]

I don't think you understand that a trampoline is not going to stop Roy in his tracks for chasing you. And one swing to the fruit, which is easy to do, will take all the priority out of them.

 

[Froggy]

I don't think you understand that a trampoline is not going to stop Roy in his tracks for chasing you. And one swing to the fruit, which is easy to do, will take all the priority out of them.

You're a Roy player right? You wanna play against my Pacman and see how well that works out for you?

 

[Splebel]

You're a Roy player right? You wanna play against my Pacman and see how well that works out for you?

If you do, upload a video of it. I want to see how well Roy does.

 

[Nu~]

I don't think you understand that a trampoline is not going to stop Roy in his tracks for chasing you. And one swing to the fruit, which is easy to do, will take all the priority out of them.

You talk about seeing things in black and white, yet you stay stiff in the belief that you can stop every fruit and jump over the trampoline safely every time.

As if the pacman player will be linear in how he keeps you out. You do know that our tools aren't used individually right? If you think you can chop fruit, avoid hydrants, and jump over trampolines every time with no problem, then you are either fighting a weak pacman or you just underestimate the character's diversity.
You may have 8 mixups to approach, but I can guarantee you that we have a lot more to keep you in check.
And they don't all start with F-air or nair lol. They do take time, but trampoline is the tool that gives us that time.

With the trampoline out, It becomes a guessing game on both ends, but the difference is that pacman has more room for creativity in his zoning than you do in approach options. Who's to say that we won't utilt a hydrant at you to cover the trampoline or throw a bell before you can react with Fair? Or sit behind hydrants behind the trampoline as a shield from your assault that we can punish due to your hitlag?
This matchup isn't just "Roy can stop/avoid everything you throw".

After @ Froggy fights you, I want to play you as well.

 

[Maziyah]

I'll play you as well.

 

[HakujouOokami]

Due to a free convention tournament, I joined for more than just free reasons (didn't have to pay to get into the convention at all. I love friends.) only to get Second Place unfortunately to a R.O.B. player. I had no idea of the matchup to a really good one but I did notice a few things that had me pretty puzzled: the fact his Nair was an auto-cancel. That was literally the only thing that threw me for a loop. Other than that, the player himself was incredible in spacing and Neutral B usin' an' whatnot. So I come to you, my fellow Pacians, give me your match up knowledge of R.O.B. because holy hell, he's much more annoying than I anticipated from just either watching Chibo or labbing in FG. :<

 

[Splebel]

Due to a free convention tournament, I joined for more than just free reasons (didn't have to pay to get into the convention at all. I love friends.) only to get Second Place unfortunately to a R.O.B. player. I had no idea of the matchup to a really good one but I did notice a few things that had me pretty puzzled: the fact his Nair was an auto-cancel. That was literally the only thing that threw me for a loop. Other than that, the player himself was incredible in spacing and Neutral B usin' an' whatnot. So I come to you, my fellow Pacians, give me your match up knowledge of R.O.B. because holy hell, he's much more annoying than I anticipated from just either watching Chibo or labbing in FG. :<

I find that my biggest problem was his upair. It lingers and goes through the hydrant so I usually don't have too much trouble if I quit doing that. As for his Nairs, if he does it in your face I would throw bells at him. It should stop him from doing that so often.

 

[Froggy]

Due to a free convention tournament, I joined for more than just free reasons (didn't have to pay to get into the convention at all. I love friends.) only to get Second Place unfortunately to a R.O.B. player. I had no idea of the matchup to a really good one but I did notice a few things that had me pretty puzzled: the fact his Nair was an auto-cancel. That was literally the only thing that threw me for a loop. Other than that, the player himself was incredible in spacing and Neutral B usin' an' whatnot. So I come to you, my fellow Pacians, give me your match up knowledge of R.O.B. because holy hell, he's much more annoying than I anticipated from just either watching Chibo or labbing in FG. :<

Play him like you're paying link. Avoid him charge up to your key and him while he over extends. If he begins approach don't forget to drop a trampolines in there to force him in the air. To be his nair just pivot fruit when goes in the air.

If he has his laser beam fully charged up it moves a bit slower so you should be able to key it in reaction, it goes through things so they key should be able to hit out of it(the trade is in your favor)

 

[Sinji]

I played this Olimar player at Nebulous Prime 1. The match up is completely in our favor (Especially a olimar that likes to camp). A campy Olimar allows us to charge whatever fruit we need in neutral. The trampoline stops Olimar from dashing away and creating space and stops him from trying to grab us. Olimars like to short hop throw pikmin if our hydrant is in the way. We can react to this and short hop throw key. Galaxion Z drops plus the hydrant will give the Olimar player a lot of trouble spacing himself, gives us more stage control and a possible opening for a huge combo. Hydrant and our aerials beats him off stage. Uturn side b to the ledge can kill him early (especially with rage) if he's offstage trying to recover.