Official Pac-Man's Amazing Full Colour Fan Club! - Pac-Man General Thread

[Arcadenik]

I was trying to think outside the box... how to make Pac-Man's moveset inspired by the arcade... how about Pac-Man's special moves involving Pac-Man trying to get away from Ghosts, chasing after Ghosts, and eating Pac-Dots?

B
Hold down B button to make Pac-Dots appear in front of Pac-Man... the Pac-Dots will line across the stage but the Pac-Dots stop lining the stage when you release the B button.... and Pac-Man zooms in that direction, eating Pac-Dots and biting opponents who get in the way... stopping where the last Pac-Dot is at... it could be used as horizontal recovery but with controllable distance

Side B
Pac-Man chases after a blue scared Ghost... Ghost tackles opponent... then Pac-Man bites opponent.... that means the opponent gets hit twice... it could be used as horizontal recovery but it has a predetermined distance

Up B
It is like the Pac-Dot Chain from Pac-Man World games... except Pac-Man turns in right angles instead of curved turns... it is ideally used as vertical recovery

Down B
Two random colored ghosts appear in both sides and Pac-Man is in between them... If it is done on the ground, Pac-Man will eat Pac-Dots upward while two Ghosts appear and charge into each other, missing Pac-Man.... if done in the air, Pac-Man will eat Pac-Dots downward while two Ghosts appear and tackle each other, missing Pac-Man... opponents can get hurt by the Ghosts... this is useful for quickly getting out of the projectile's way.... it is more or less a glorified directional Air Dodge

Final Smash
Pac-Man eats a Power Pellet and then turns into a giant 2D sprite and starts going "wakka wakka" in all four directions... all opponents turn blue... they get KO'd instantly and their eyes are left floating... the eyeballs fly to the respawn platform where the opponents respawn

 

[BridgesWithTurtles]

I like the moveset's idea of the ghosts running around in his moveset, acting as hitboxes while simultaneously prompting Pac himself to move around in a variety of patterns. Perhaps each ghost could have different effects to spice things up.

Blinky - Perhaps the quickest-traveling ghost. Alternatively, he would home in on nearby enemies rather than traveling straight.

Pinky - Acts as an "interceptor", spawning in front of Pac-Man wherever he travels, making her (I'm going to go with the "new" canon and assume Pinky is female) act as a shield that cancels hostile hitboxes. The catch would be that Pac-Man would be susceptible to running right into her; to balance Pinky's usefulness, there could be a very small window where Pac could reverse his direction and avoid contacting her.

Inky - Playing off of his bashful persona in the original game, Inky would hesitate to move after spawning, giving him a bit of delay before jetting forward and providing a lingering hitbox that plays with the opponent a bit deviously.

Clyde - Could be a larger hitbox that moves more slowly and lazily.

 

[CalumG]

So far, the only person to ever ask was Kojima. It's clear no one ask because even the Tales director said "Hey guys. Ask Sakurai to put Tales characters in Smash," when he could have gone down the hall and asked himself.

Sakurai does look at fans request, but have you seen Pac-Man. He's only holding on due to US demand and even that is bad (he's being beaten by Banjo Kazzoie who can't be in the game). There really isn't anything going for Pac-Man. He's only brought up for being a Namco character who looks like he'd fit in. If any other Namco character was somewhat popular, Pac-Man would die. We see this in Japan where Pac-Man has no base and fans talk instead about Tales.

Popularity does not equal internet forum/poll popularity.

Good day sir.

 

[TheCreator]

I really don't like the idea of the ghosts being part of his moveset. I just don't think he needs it.

 

[FalKoopa]

I really don't like the idea of the ghosts being part of his moveset. I just don't think he needs it.

I agree.

Ghosts would be nice assist trophies. xD

 

[Arcadenik]

I really don't like the idea of the ghosts being part of his moveset. I just don't think he needs it.

Why do you think Pac-Man does not need Ghosts in his moveset?

I am trying to come up with something to make Pac-Man stand out from the crowd... make him as interesting as I think Sakurai might have made him... I mean... what do most people think about when Pac-Man is brought up? Pac-Man himself, eating the Pac-Dots, being chased by Ghosts, eating Ghosts... hell, that guy who interviewed Sakurai suggested the arcade version of Pac-Man.... so why not have Pac-Man's moveset parodying the very gameplay of Pac-Man arcade itself? Mega Man's moveset is pretty much copying off the Mega Man NES gameplay, too...

 

[Deleted member]

There's room for ghosts in the moveset, but it'd take serious fiddling around with how they work for it to make sense. If a good balance was found between Pac-Man not just using the ghosts and the ghosts doing something interesting, it could really make the moveset shine. It's a tough nut to crack, though. I wonder if Sakurai would go that route.

 

[SmashChu]

I agree that talking about what Namco wants is inconsequential, but it does give insight into how Sakurai may form his decisions. The thing about all of this, is that Sakurai doesn't need to ask Namco who they'd want as it's extremely obvious. Pac-Man may not get many fan requests but that is because he's a retro character at heart, so it's about as meaningless as G&W or Ice Climbers not getting requests. He certainly has hardcore fans and his inclusion would draw them to Smash Bros., the facts are there to back up Pac-Man as a gaming icon. That's as good a reason to add him as any other.

First, you can not compare Nintendo characters to third party characters. They play by different rules. Ice Climber, Game and Watch, and ROB get to be in because they are classic Nintendo characters and this is a Nintendo All-Star game. Third party character have to be special. Here is a quote from Sakurai.
Smash Bros. can still be considered as an all-star collection of Nintendo characters. Just like with Mega Man or any other third-party character, it would have to be a very special situation.

With Nintendo characters, you can argue things like being an icon. With third party characters, you can't. This is why Sonic and Megaman got in after being the most popular characters worldwide. Pac-Man isn't even in the ball park.

It's like you haven't read a single post in this thread... especially the OP.

Most pof the arguments in the OP are either arguments no one made or are poorly done. I was thinking about going though the OP and knocking them all down.[/quote]

Do you really think this is the reason he's brought up? He's not just A Namco character. He's THE Namco character. In fact, He's THE third party character. More well known than Sonic, Mega Man and surprisingly even Mario.
http://kotaku.com/5432611/pac man-still-beats-mario-for-most famous-crown

That doesn't help him get into Smash. Pac-man wasn't even a reasonable choice until it was announced that Namco was making the game. If that's all that changed, does it mean he's likely. Probably not. Sakurai has also came out and said that wasn't a criteria which kill's Pac-Man's chances. That's all he's had going for him.

Pac-Man will never die. If it was going to happen if would have happened already, like it's happened with Crash Bandicoot. Pac-Man is a legend that lives on and is even gaining a lot of steam as of late.

I'm talking about popularity in regards to Smash. In Japan, Pac-Man isn't even brought up much as Tales characters dominate the discussion. In the US, there isn't a Namco character to rally around so Pac-Man is the default. In Japan, since the Tales series is so popular, they go to that and Pac-Man dies. If, say, Tekken characters were in some demand here, they'd take over Pac-Man's spot.

Why do I say that? It's because the only thing Pac-Man has going for him is Namco is developing the game.

To your first sentence, truthfully you have no idea. There could have been others ask that you have no idea about.
To your second sentence, that doesn't make anything clear at all. Pacman could have been in the game already when he said that for all we know.

To the next two, holding on to what exactly? If you ever thought, or thought that WE thought, Pacman would be in the game for popularity, you're mistaken.
To the one after that....no
To the rest, that is just simply not true brother. I think Dig Dug would fit in this game pretty well. **** dude, lloyd would even be able to fit in. Pacman is not brought up only because he fits in....he is brought up because he's Pacman. I like the way luigiman said this: "Pac-Man will never die."
Fans talk instead of Tales in Japan? They do here too for the most part. But you know what? That doesn't matter at all. Because unless a third party character is extremely requested, odds are they don't qualify as a 'Special Situation' EX; Lloyd Irving. Does not qualify.
But as I said "odds are" There are exceptions. Pacman is under any definition ever is a Special Situation man. The biggest icon in all of gaming, is a special situation. I think Sakurai likes the idea of Pacman in the game anyway, and would probably ask if they didn't.

1)Sakurai has come out and said no one else asked him. I believe this is from GDC 08 interview.
2)He said that Namco characters get no special treatment. Pac-Man's chances and even his small popularity are based on Namco making the game. If that is no a condition to getting in, then Pac-Man has nothng.

I find it hard to follow your post in general because you went sentence by sentence so I'm going to ignore the rest till you can make it flow with out playing quote soup. I will say this.

Pac-Man being a gaming icon does not help him to get in the game. Megaman and Sonic where added because they were more popular than any other character out there. Snake was added because Kojima asked for it. As I said before, he's the only one to ask and interviews with Namco staff shows they aren't asking for anyone. It doesn't take a genius to see that popularity is what drives the third party characters and Pac-Man doesn't have this. Being a gaming icon doesn't matter in a Nintendo All-Star game.

Popularity does not equal internet forum/poll popularity.

Good day sir.

But do you think all the people who never go on the internet magically say "i'd love to see Pac-Man in" when the sample so far shows he's not even in the top 15? It's doubtful you are going to see that. Also, most of the results come from Reddit which has a diverse user base. He's unpopular in general.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Smashchu, are you digging one of those pitfalls for you to fall in as you'll be proven wrong in time?

TheCreator had pretty good arguments IMO. You seem to still grasp the straws based on what has happened now so far.

From the general stand-point, Pac-Man has the gaming icon, Namco-mascot and overally pretty well-translating character compared to Nintendo-characters enough to fit in Smash. Not to mention he has been with Mario in the same game as much as Sonic has been.

Anyway, now that Sakurai has said that he won't add any fighting game characters, it seems to deconfirm Tekken/Soul Calibur-characters.

So to be honest, Pac-Man can be said to be a legit shoe-in now: at least from all these conclusions so far that has been gathered around.

 

[FalKoopa]

So, in short SmashChu is saying that Pac-Man has little demand, so he won't get in.

Implying that's the only thing matters, lol.

Also, I love it how he says that his super-iconic status does not help him.

 

[CalumG]

The only reason he could be deemed unpopular is because people who are suggesting characters for Smash only suggest those they think are "viable fighters" - hence why you see all kinds of people suggesting Lloyd or Shulk or Skull Kid or Takamaru or some other generic candidate but you get a significantly smaller amount of people suggesting, say, Villager or Wii Fit Trainer. Now I'm not saying this increases nor decreases Pac-Man's chances, but people's suggestions in general for Smash are biased by their preconceived notions of what constitutes a 'fitting' fighting character in Smash, despite the fact that time and time again those notions have been proven wrong. Reddit or Smashboards, it makes no difference - if you ask somebody for suggestions for Smash Bros. characters, their mind generally tilts towards characters who are naturally-proven fighters/aggressors within their own franchises rather than those who would make interesting fighters in Smash.

And that's why Pac-Man doesn't show up on these lists - not because he's an unpopular video game character.

 

[Deleted member]

First, you can not compare Nintendo characters to third party characters. They play by different rules. Ice Climber, Game and Watch, and ROB get to be in because they are classic Nintendo characters and this is a Nintendo All-Star game. Third party character have to be special. Here is a quote from Sakurai.
Smash Bros. can still be considered as an all-star collection of Nintendo characters. Just like with Mega Man or any other third-party character, it would have to be a very special situation.

Actually I can talk about Nintendo characters and third-party characters when it comes to requests. If we're talking about popularity, as you latch onto quite a bit in your replies, then the status of a character, be they Nintendo-owner or not, is irrelevant. If we're talking about special situations, Pac-Man clearly does qualify. Sakurai talks about bringing in characters to fill new roles or bring in new fans and that is precisely what would be accomplished through Pac-Man's inclusion. That he's not popular on Reddit or wherever else simply is what it is, and has no more significant meaning. Just as much as Pac-Man having one of the bigger support threads on Smash World Forums is no credible proof of his confirmation. Facts are facts, your logic is based purely on conjecture.

 

[8-peacock-8]

So it seems Heihachi is out of the picture. That leaves Lloyd/any other Tales rep as Pac-Man competition.

 

[SmashChu]

Actually I can talk about Nintendo characters and third-party characters when it comes to requests. If we're talking about popularity, as you latch onto quite a bit in your replies, then the status of a character, be they Nintendo-owner or not, is irrelevant. If we're talking about special situations, Pac-Man clearly does qualify. Sakurai talks about bringing in characters to fill new roles or bring in new fans and that is precisely what would be accomplished through Pac-Man's inclusion. That he's not popular on Reddit or wherever else simply is what it is, and has no more significant meaning. Just as much as Pac-Man having one of the bigger support threads on Smash World Forums is no credible proof of his confirmation. Facts are facts, your logic is based purely on conjecture.

What your doing is trying to elevate irrelevant factors and ignore the ones that actual matter. Being an icon doesn't matter. People knowing who he is doesn't matter. The replies on this thread don't matter (especially since it can be the same folks posting and replying).

Megaman and Sonic were both added because they were the most requested (if you want to mince words). Note this means they beat every other Nintendo character. Pac-Man on the US poll is below the top 15 and likely lower in Japan. There is not much else to talk about. Smash fans don't want to play as Pac-Man where they do what to play as Sonic and Megaman. Sakurai is very conservative on third party characters so unless they are the cream of the crop, they wont get in. Pac-Man doesn't have this.

A few things. First, being iconic isn't relevant because that doesn't translate into wanting to play as said character. Doesn't matter that a lot of people know Pac-Man if none of them actually want to play as him. Second, request are a reflection of the character. Sonic was highly requested because of his rivalry with Mario which fans feel is relevant to the characters histories. Fans felt Megaman was very importaint to Nintendo. Megaman was very popular during then NES days so Nintendo fans like Megaman. I will not argue Pac-Man is an iconic game. However, if that held as much weight as you and other liked to believe it does, why is it not translating into more request for Pac-Man? Why is the smaller Tales series the discussion in Japan and not Pac-Man. Why is Banjo and Kazzoie, a character everyone knows can't be in Smash, have more request than Pac-Man? See, request are not independent of other factors for the characters. Request are the quantitative results of all the factors of a character. So being iconic is already factored into the request. If this mattered to fans it would be reflected in the request. Sonic and Mario's rivalry is factored into Sonic's request because its a reason people want to play as him. The same is true for Megaman. All these elements are the reason people want to play as a character and the request show the how many people would want them in the game. So these factors you mention as reason Pac-Man will be in don't hold weight. I say they are irrelevant because, were they relevant, Pac-Man wouldn't be as low as he is. If they did, he would not be as low as he is. You may complain about the source, but the US results come from a lot of different sites. Reddit is important because it has the largest diversity of people. The Japanese polls were from all over.

Lastly, Megaman and Sonic got into Smash because Sakurai had to add them. With how popular they were, there would be an outcry and a lot of disappointment if they were not in. Sakurai does want to please fans, so he made sure to add these characters. Pac-Man is not in the same boat. If Sakurai didn't add Pac-Man, there wouldn't be any backlash save for a few die hard fans, but that is any character. Sakurai doesn't want to add a lot of third party characters and he's made it very clear (even saying "I'm not going to add just any character," when talking about Megaman). This is why request are so importaint for these characters. Pac-Man's aren't noticable. The reason you can add silly characters like Wii Fit Trainer is because this is a Nintendo All-Star game. You can add iconic Nintendo characters because Nintendo is the name of the game. So Pac-Man and others have to stand out enough to where they can't be missed. Right now, Pac-Man can be ignored with no repercussions.

 

[Groose]

Smash fans don't want to play as Pac-Man where they do what to play as Sonic and Megaman.

I've tried for awhile to compose an argument against this. I know I can, I can see your argument's flaws, but the rhetoric just isn't flowing today. Ah well.

But yeah, Smash fans do want to play as Pac-Man. His iconic status makes him more requested among the casual players that don't really frequent polls and pre-Smash speculation.

 

[CalumG]

I just don't see that the logic follows through. Again, it really comes down to the fact that when people suggest characters for Smash they generally (I say generally because I know some characters will be used against me) suggest the characters which already have a well-established level of combat within their own games, or characters with aggressively-inclined personality/gameplay. The fact that Pac-Man doesn't see these requests as much in polls and on the internet in general isn't so much down to the fact that people don't want to play as him, but that he doesn't have the same level of natural combat ability that characters like Sonic, or Megaman, or Shulk and Takamaru (both of which people seem to consider incredibly likely for reasons unknown) have. This doesn't mean he's unpopular, it doesn't mean he's got lower chances and it certainly doesn't mean people don't want to play as him - it just means he's not at the forefront of people's minds when they get asked "what one of these would you like to see in Smash?". And naturally, given his penchant for running away and generally being a maze explorer rather than a fighter, can you blame them for not instantly thinking of the Pac?

 

[SmashChu]

I've tried for awhile to compose an argument against this. I know I can, I can see your argument's flaws, but the rhetoric just isn't flowing today. Ah well.

Your argument is wrong. I mean, I can't argue against it, but it's wrong.

But yeah, Smash fans do want to play as Pac-Man. His iconic status makes him more requested among the casual players that don't really frequent polls and pre-Smash speculation.

Yeah, people want Pac-Man even though I have no evidence of this and actual evidence contradicts what I say. Yeah, people want Pac-Man. You'll just have to trust me on this one.

In declare myself the winner.

 

[FlareHabanero]

But yeah, Smash fans do want to play as Pac-Man. His iconic status makes him more requested among the casual players that don't really frequent polls and pre-Smash speculation.

Going by this logic, many fans of Super Smash Bros. want to play as Cloud, Sora, [insert Sonic character here], and Goku too. That's not what Super Smash Bros. is all about, even if you want to make a wall of text explaining how catering to that audience is an ideal proposition.

 

[CalumG]

Going by this logic, many fans of Super Smash Bros. want to play as Cloud, Sora, [insert Sonic character here], and Goku too. That's not what Super Smash Bros. is all about, even if you want to make a wall of text explaining how catering to that audience is an ideal proposition.

Goku is an anime character, it's pretty much common knowledge that third-parties won't get second reps, Cloud has only been on Playstation and Kingdom Hearts likewise doesn't tend to go near Nintendo consoles often, compared to, say, Pac-Man, who's had crossovers with Mario already and even had a game made by Nintendo EAD (who notoriously do not make games using other companies IP's).

You said "going by this logic" and then proceeded to use entirely different logic. gg

 

[FalKoopa]

Yeah, people want Pac-Man even though I have no evidence of this and actual evidence contradicts what I say. Yeah, people want Pac-Man. You'll just have to trust me on this one.

Did you provide a single piece of evidence in your entire post?

 

[FlareHabanero]

Goku is an anime character, it's pretty much common knowledge that third-parties won't get second reps, Cloud has only been on Playstation and Kingdom Hearts likewise doesn't tend to go near Nintendo consoles often, compared to, say, Pac-Man, who's had crossovers with Mario already and even had a game made by Nintendo EAD (who notoriously do not make games using other companies IP's).

It doesn't matter what logic there is, nitwits on websites like Youtube and Facebook want garbage characters, you know the same people that really want every single third party character in existence regardless of whatever logic is thrown at them (including Pac-man).

But I guess like Groose said we should really listen to those nitwits because they apparently have a lot more say then the actual people that know what the hell they're talking about.

 

[SmashChu]

Did you provide a single piece of evidence in your entire post?

No, because I'm lazy.

West
Japan

 

[Arcadenik]

The only reason he could be deemed unpopular is because people who are suggesting characters for Smash only suggest those they think are "viable fighters" - hence why you see all kinds of people suggesting Lloyd or Shulk or Skull Kid or Takamaru or some other generic candidate but you get a significantly smaller amount of people suggesting, say, Villager or Wii Fit Trainer. Now I'm not saying this increases nor decreases Pac-Man's chances, but people's suggestions in general for Smash are biased by their preconceived notions of what constitutes a 'fitting' fighting character in Smash, despite the fact that time and time again those notions have been proven wrong. Reddit or Smashboards, it makes no difference - if you ask somebody for suggestions for Smash Bros. characters, their mind generally tilts towards characters who are naturally-proven fighters/aggressors within their own franchises rather than those who would make interesting fighters in Smash.

And that's why Pac-Man doesn't show up on these lists - not because he's an unpopular video game character.

This is actually true... notice that there are some fans who is not me who support Duck Hunt Dog.... he is not requested as often as Balloon Fighter, Mach Rider, and Takamaru because people don't think that fighting with ducks and NES Zapper is not viable... whereas people support the other retro characters because Balloon Fighter has the word "fighter" in his name, Mach Rider looks like Kamen Rider, and Takamaru is a samurai... people associate these traits to fighting and so they get requested more than Duck Hunt Dog.

This is also why more people support Waluigi, Geno, Bowser Jr. and Paper Mario over Toad... because they associate these characters to fighting than Toad... Waluigi is requested often because people saw him fighting as an Assist Trophy, Geno is requested often because people want a character who can shoot bullets from his hands and uses star magic, Bowser Jr. is requested often because people want a character who can fight with a paintbrush, Paper Mario is requested often because people want a 2D Mario who fights with hammers and partners... Toad does not get requested much because people see Toads as useless royal guards who are cowards and cannot even protect Peach... even though Toad is objectively the most logical choice for a Mario newcomer (kinda like how Pac-Man is objectively the most logical choice for a Namco character).

 

[SmashChu]

The only reason he could be deemed unpopular is because people who are suggesting characters for Smash only suggest those they think are "viable fighters" - hence why you see all kinds of people suggesting Lloyd or Shulk or Skull Kid or Takamaru or some other generic candidate but you get a significantly smaller amount of people suggesting, say, Villager or Wii Fit Trainer. Now I'm not saying this increases nor decreases Pac-Man's chances, but people's suggestions in general for Smash are biased by their preconceived notions of what constitutes a 'fitting' fighting character in Smash, despite the fact that time and time again those notions have been proven wrong. Reddit or Smashboards, it makes no difference - if you ask somebody for suggestions for Smash Bros. characters, their mind generally tilts towards characters who are naturally-proven fighters/aggressors within their own franchises rather than those who would make interesting fighters in Smash.

And that's why Pac-Man doesn't show up on these lists - not because he's an unpopular video game character.

He doesn't show up on the list because people don't want to play as Pac-Man. There isn't anything else to it.

 

[Arcadenik]

He doesn't show up on the list because people don't want to play as Pac-Man. There isn't anything else to it.

Wii Fit Trainer doesn't show up on the list because people don't want to play as... oh wait!

 

[CalumG]

It doesn't matter what logic there is, nitwits on websites like Youtube and Facebook want garbage characters, you know the same people that really want every single third party character in existence regardless of whatever logic is thrown at them (including Pac-man).

But I guess like Groose said we should really listen to those nitwits because they apparently have a lot more say then the actual people that know what the hell they're talking about.

Yes, Sakurai should listen to those nitwits. There's a difference between listening to the input of the (excuse the term) 'filthy casuals', and just indiscriminately putting in any character they ask for (Crash Bandicoot, Cloud Strife, Naruto, Tupac Shakur, George Zimmerman). If a character would widely appeal to these 'nitwits' and yet not break any of the alleged rules of Smash - i.e. being important to Nintendo, being popular, originating from a video game, being a main character in their respective franchise (as opposed to, say, Geno) - then why shouldn't that voice be appealed to?

 

[Deleted member]

Lastly, Megaman and Sonic got into Smash because Sakurai had to add them.

You act as if Sakurai had a gun to his head to add Sonic or MegaMan. Of the three Smash 4 newcomers announced two of three were not requested by practically anyone and are hardly even characters. The logic you present here is simply that what you think is popular is guaranteed to be in and what you don't is not, this is quite a close-minded, unsupported argument. I'm sorry but there's really nothing in this post worth replying to in particular, maybe you should leave the thread if you hate Pac-Man supporters so much and refuse to credit their arguments. You aren't going to win over anyone acting like that, just turn the Pac-Man thread into the Krystal thread with negativity.

 

[SmashChu]

Wii Fit Trainer doesn't show up on the list because people don't want to play as... oh wait!

Nintendo characters. Different rules. Go back and read the conversations.

You act as if Sakurai had a gun to his head to add Sonic or MegaMan. Of the three Smash 4 newcomers announced two of three were not requested by practically anyone and are hardly even characters. The logic you present here is simply that what you think is popular is guaranteed to be in and what you don't is not, this is quite a close-minded, unsupported argument. I'm sorry but there's really nothing in this post worth replying to in particular, maybe you should leave the thread if you hate Pac-Man supporters so much and refuse to credit their arguments. You aren't going to win over anyone acting like that, just turn the Pac-Man thread into the Krystal thread with negativity.

I made it sound exactly like it is. People would not have been happy with no Sonic and Megaman. They were above and beyond the other characters. The same can't be said about Pac-Man.

Also, the majority of the characters in Smash are due to request. You claim two were not due to request but forget they showed off Megaman, the most popular character. You also forget there was quite a debate among Smash fans about Animal Crossing characters and a lot of people disagreed with the sentiment that non-violent characters can't be in Brawl. Look at Brawl: Olimar, Diddy Kong, Meta-Knight, Wario, Lucas (in Japan), Dedede, Wolf, Lucario, and Sonic were all highly requested characters. The last two third party were because they were beyond the most requested characters. See a pattern?

I've long since won this argument. Just people want to get bogged down by irrelevant facts. The reason you wont reply to my points is because you can't.

 

[CalumG]

Also, the majority of the characters in Smash are due to request. You claim two were not due to request but forget they showed off Megaman, the most popular character. You also forget there was quite a debate among Smash fans about Animal Crossing characters and a lot of people disagreed with the sentiment that non-violent characters can't be in Brawl. Look at Brawl: Olimar, Diddy Kong, Meta-Knight, Wario, Lucas (in Japan), Dedede, Wolf, Lucario, and Sonic were all highly requested characters. The last two third party were because they were beyond the most requested characters. See a pattern?

I've long since won this argument. Just people want to get bogged down by irrelevant facts. The reason you wont reply to my points is because you can't.

I'm not saying this makes Pac-Man any more likely but none of those characters (bar maybe Lucario) got in 'due to request' as you claim. They got in because they're crucial characters to their franchises - the popular status was merely icing on the cake.

 

[Deleted member]

I made it sound exactly like it is. People would not have been happy with no Sonic and Megaman. They were above and beyond the other characters. The same can't be said about Pac-Man.

Also, the majority of the characters in Smash are due to request. You claim two were not due to request but forget they showed off Megaman, the most popular character. You also forget there was quite a debate among Smash fans about Animal Crossing characters and a lot of people disagreed with the sentiment that non-violent characters can't be in Brawl. Look at Brawl: Olimar, Diddy Kong, Meta-Knight, Wario, Lucas (in Japan), Dedede, Wolf, Lucario, and Sonic were all highly requested characters. The last two third party were because they were beyond the most requested characters. See a pattern?

I've long since won this argument. Just people want to get bogged down by irrelevant facts. The reason you wont reply to my points is because you can't.

Again, Sakurai did not have a gun to his head, he could freely have left out Sonic and MegaMan and overall people would be disappointed, but no less than a handful of other characters who we don't know are in yet and may not be. Not to mention Snake got in especially because of a relationship with Kojima at total random, so this argument is really just conjecture based on what you think Sakurai thinks when we simply don't know.

The point you miss is that MegaMan was the most requested character, but the only requested one to be shown off so far. Sakurai does not just add highly-requested characters and we will see that even more now that the obvious characters are more-or-less already in Smash. Outside of about five characters not to be added yet, the field is more open than ever before. It's another baseless argument assuming things that have no correlating evidence.

Requests are not everything, popularity is just as important and Pac-Man is more popular than practically every other prospective newcomer. Sakurai does take this into account and it will be an immense help for Pac-Man. Why I said you may want to leave is because nothing you'v presented is new and has been debunked many times, especially at the early stages of this thread. Hell, we even have a very detailed section dedicated to arguing these very same points you bring up, they have been "replied to" already but you clearly don't want to listen to criticism.

 

[SmashChu]

Again, Sakurai did not have a gun to his head, he could freely have left out Sonic and MegaMan and overall people would be disappointed, but no less than a handful of other characters who we don't know are in yet and may not be. Not to mention Snake not in especially because of a relationship with Kojima at total random, so this argument is really just conjecture based on what you think Sakurai thinks when we simply don't know.

I never said he had a gun to his head. Your trying to stick words in my mouth. Fact is: people would be disapointed if they weren't in. Snake was requested by Kojima but no one else asked which is why I have ignored it.

There is no question why Megaman and Sonic are in and Sakurai has said they have to be a special situation.

The point you miss is that MegaMan was the most requested character, but the only requested one to be shown off so far. Sakurai does not just add highly-requested characters and we will see that even more now that the obvious characters are more-or-less already in Smash. Outside of about five characters not to be added yet, the field is more open than ever before. It's another baseless argument assuming things that have no correlating evidence.

Absents of evidence is not evidence of absents. And you're right. He doesn't just add highly requested characters. Which is why we have Pokemon Trainer, ZSS, ROB and WFT. But if we assume popularity means nothing (which we know is false. See last post), then that means every character has the same chances which means Pac-Man is just as likely as Link's Uncle. So I'm not sure how this helps your argument/

Requests are not everything, popularity is just as important and Pac-Man is more popular than practically every other prospective newcomer. Sakurai does take this into account and it will be an immense help for Pac-Man. Why I said you may want to leave is because nothing you'v presented is new and has been debunked many times, especially at the early stages of this thread. Hell, we even have a very detailed section dedicated to arguing these very same points you bring up, they have been "replied to" already but you clearly don't want to listen to criticism.

If he is so popular, why are his request so low? If Pac-man is so popular as you claim, shouldn't everyone be requesting him? You say these things and never back them up. You ignore things that have backing.

It's like shooting fish in a barrel.

 

[CalumG]

Could I also point out that, although I'm having a hard time re-finding the source, Sonic was also a character request by the creator - according to an interview in the Australian version of Edge Magazine, Yuji Naka had made the request for Sonic to be in Smash way back in the Melee days, just like Snake, and just like Snake didn't make it due to time constraints. Which, incidentally, is why I'm personally skeptical about the whole "Sonic was the reason for the Brawl delay" rumour - I'm of the personal belief that Sonic's announcement in Brawl and the announcement of the Brawl delay were timed near each other as a way to soften the blow, not because of any kind of cause-and-effect type deal.

 

[Deleted member]

If he is so popular, why are his request so low?

Someone answered this already. Pac-Man is not seen as a typical fighting game character, you mentioned earlier about Namco making the game and this highlighting Pac-Man as a newcomer. That is true, and I do not deny Namco's involvement is what spurred on much of his support, as otherwise it would be considered impossible because of his being a third-party. The most requested characters generally are those that either a) have a huge fanbase or b) seem likely due to their easy potential for a set, or representing a whole series. Pac-Man has neither of these in the Nintendo fanbase, but he is immensely popular to the general public. See: all the statistics showing he is the most well-known video game icon.

Requests do not equal popularity. Geno is not popular outside of requests. Pac-Man is incredibly popular outside of requests.

 

[Arcadenik]

Absents of evidence is not evidence of absents. And you're right. He doesn't just add highly requested characters. Which is why we have Pokemon Trainer, ZSS, ROB and WFT. But if we assume popularity means nothing (which we know is false. See last post), then that means every character has the same chances which means Pac-Man is just as likely as Link's Uncle. So I'm not sure how this helps your argument.

And it also means Pac-Man is just as likely as Mii and Little Mac.

 

[BridgesWithTurtles]

So wait, the grand total of 3 third-party characters, 1/3 of which had a completely different reason for inclusion, is enough of a precedent to create some sort of law that all third-party inclusions from now on must adhere to? Keep in mind that Sakurai changes his mind-constantly, having stated that choosing third-parties is under a "very special situation". In Brawl, one of those third-parties' special situation was Kojima simply asking for Snake with no fan demand. Oh, wait? Snake had the bonus of being a gaming icon, even though no one asked for him? Then Pac-Man's in the same boat. Considering he's basically at the same point as Snake was pre-Brawl (iconic, rarely requested, more popular choices like Tales and Castlevania, respectively), 1/3 of precedent shows that he's really not going against anything Sakurai has done in the past. If Namco simply pushes for Pac-Man, and Sakurai uses the same logic he used when including Snake (which I will admit, may not happen because his logic floats around untethered), then I could hardly see Pac-Man being rejected. But you know, that's the thing. There isn't enough precedent to draw a pattern; all we really have is Sakurai's "special situation" spiel. So Pac-Man could be included or excluded for some completely different reason we haven't even seen used in Sakurai's prior words and actions.

I'm not even expecting Pac-Man, for the record.

 

[Deleted member]

What I can understand is the simple argument that third-party slots are a special situation, that has been made crystal clear by Sakurai. But the distinguishing factor between a good argument and a baiting argument is drawing the line at Pac-Man, that somehow this incredibly well-known character is obscured by other Namco or third-party characters. This is not solely because of the character, it is about all of Namco's licenses and Pac-Man games. As if you let in Pac-Man, you can include stages, soundtracks, assist tropies; paraphernalia of this character is practically unmatched by any other. Just look at what Sonic, Snake and now MegaMan have brought to the franchise. This is why Pac-Man is felt to be a compelling newcomer by his supporters, on top of the many, many legitimate fans, who simply aren't that vocal as a group.

 

[TheCreator]

Nintendo characters. Different rules. Go back and read the conversations.

You missed his entire point with that post.

I made it sound exactly like it is. People would not have been happy with no Sonic and Megaman. They were above and beyond the other characters. The same can't be said about Pac-Man.

I think people would have been fine without those two because they are....above and beyond other characters....him even putting third parties in the game is fan service, we don't have the place or power to demand **** from him.

Also, the majority of the characters in Smash are due to request. You claim two were not due to request but forget they showed off Megaman, the most popular character. You also forget there was quite a debate among Smash fans about Animal Crossing characters and a lot of people disagreed with the sentiment that non-violent characters can't be in Brawl. Look at Brawl: Olimar, Diddy Kong, Meta-Knight, Wario, Lucas (in Japan), Dedede, Wolf, Lucario, and Sonic were all highly requested characters. The last two third party were because they were beyond the most requested characters. See a pattern?

Source where Olimar was heavily requested pls. Two of the characters revealed were not due to request. A lot of characters actually get in for reasons other than request. The ONLY thing you have against Pac-Man is that he is not requested, which is a ****ty argument, completely. You say the only reason third parties make it, (or you actually say HAVE to make it) is because they are highly popular and requested. Just take a minute and think about that, abd how stupid it sounds....
And if that wasn't enough take Solid Snake. He was in for reasons other than that no? It doesn't matter specifically what his reason for inclusion was, because the fact that he made it with no support at all, with them having no clue how the fanbase would react, stands on your argument's ****. He just threw that guy in there because he personally wanted to, basically.
Now. With that said so far there are two things we could go by that Sakurai meant by 'Special Situation'
1. Extremely Popular and requested character.
2. Because Sakurai wants to.
And you can't really counter that. He had no other reason to put in Snake, other than he wanted to. For a friends sure, but he wanted to.
I'm sure Sakurai knows Pacman as an extremely iconic character. If you work for Nintendo/are keen on video games, you respect Pacman's place in history. And we've seen in previous games where Namco Bandai helped with development of a Nintendo project, they got guest characters. (Who do you think it was, Smashchu?) It's pretty safe to say that Nintendo respects Pacman and his place. Tbh I wouldn't be surprised if Sakurai asked them, or Miyamoto told him to. I know for a fact that Miyamoto loves Pacman, read it in an interview a while ago.

I've long since won this argument. Just people want to get bogged down by irrelevant facts. The reason you wont reply to my points is because you can't.

I responded to your points because I can and it was pretty simple.
You won absolutely nothing

#PacDefense #RealTalk

 

[FalKoopa]

The arguments in this thread are entertaining.

#NeutralPasserby

 

[greenluigiman2]

SmashChu, I can't wait for the day Pac-Man is revealed. We're all going to dog you so hard. You're not getting away with this one.

 

[SmashChu]

Someone answered this already. Pac-Man is not seen as a typical fighting game character, you mentioned earlier about Namco making the game and this highlighting Pac-Man as a newcomer. That is true, and I do not deny Namco's involvement is what spurred on much of his support, as otherwise it would be considered impossible because of his being a third-party. The most requested characters generally are those that either a) have a huge fanbase or b) seem likely due to their easy potential for a set, or representing a whole series. Pac-Man has neither of these in the Nintendo fanbase, but he is immensely popular to the general public. See: all the statistics showing he is the most well-known video game icon.

Requests do not equal popularity. Geno is not popular outside of requests. Pac-Man is incredibly popular outside of requests.

1)Being a typical fighting character is not the issue. You can apply this to any Nintendo character. People are not going to say "Boy howdy, I really like Pac-Man. I want him to be in Smash Brothers, but he can't fight, so I changed my mind." Not being a fighter is not the reason he is low. He's low because people don't want to play as him. There are likely many reasons. Mostly it's probably because people don't care for him. Plain and simple. basically, all you're trying to do is rationalize away numbers that kill your argument.
2)Bold proves my argument. If the only reason he's being brought up is because he's a Namco character, then he probably doesn't have a good shot. Consider the request. If Namco was the only thing that made him a possibility, then it's likely people aren't interested in him at all. We're people interested in him and if he were so popular as everyone claims, then he'd be on the radar more. If Namco was the only thing that puts him on the map then he's not a very good character choice.
3)Underline is what you are missing. Underline is "Characters people want." Request show people really don't want Pac-Man. You want to believe that Sakurai will add Pac-Man to force him down people's troughs because people who don't play Smash Brothers know Pac-Man. In truth, Sakurai will add characters people are actually asking for because he knows those are who everyone wants to play with. Were we to go by the general populous, we would have far more Mario and Pokemon characters.

SmashChu, I can't wait for the day Pac-Man is revealed. We're all going to dog you so hard. You're not getting away with this one.

And if he's not?