Official Pac-Man's Amazing Full Colour Fan Club! - Pac-Man General Thread

[fromundaman]

Huh okay, false alarm on both then. Could have sworn Nair was 12% though.


That said, the nerfs to ZSS and Pika are real. Those MUs are getting easier. (Poor Pika didn't deserve it IMO)

 

[Froggy]

Huh okay, false alarm on both then. Could have sworn Nair was 12% though.


That said, the nerfs to ZSS and Pika are real. Those MUs are getting easier. (Poor Pika didn't deserve it IMO)

That's Luigi, Pikcachu and ZSS now( What happened to ZSS btw?)!

Does Sakurai have a hard on for Shiek or something?

 

[fromundaman]

Zage I have Boss in pools tomorrow. Since I know you guys have played often, any advice for me? Habits he has, tech he can't deal with, general MU knowledge, etc. I would appreciate it!

(If you don't want to give me advice to beat a teammate though, I completely understand that too.)

 

[Froggy]

First tourney in over a month tomorrow. Its a monthly and they banned Diddy because of the grabless glitch which strongly disagree with. I feel like I am being robbed of the true tournament experience, it bothers me a lot more than I thought it would.

 

[Zage]

Zage I have Boss in pools tomorrow. Since I know you guys have played often, any advice for me? Habits he has, tech he can't deal with, general MU knowledge, etc. I would appreciate it!

(If you don't want to give me advice to beat a teammate though, I completely understand that too.)

I only ever played Boss once, the match should still be on youtube.

I think pools are over though so this response is probably useless lol.

 

[fromundaman]

I only ever played Boss once, the match should still be on youtube.

I think pools are over though so this response is probably useless lol.

Nah pools are in the morning. Thanks though!

I did watch that match and it helped a lot. I have a pretty good idea of what he should and shouldn't be prepared for. It helps as well that while we have some tricks in common, we also have a lot that are somewhat different (Especially our ledge traps). I'm hoping that means that if he took what you did to him into the lab, it will throw him off to see different variations.

IDK we'll see how it goes. Despite these advantages, you seem to be a better player than me, so who knows how it may turn out.

Either way I plan to do well tomorrow (Although due to some BS at work, if I make top 8 I may end up in a position where I have to choose between my admittedly ****ty job and playing it out )

 

[Nu~]

So how are you guys getting your kills currently?

I've had amazing success with fair -> bell/key. It's the easiest and most reliable kill confirm we have right now.

 

[Froggy]

So how are you guys getting your kills currently?

I've had amazing success with fair -> bell/key. It's the easiest and most reliable kill confirm we have right now.

Punishing keys and hop apples mostly. Bait bells and don't throw bells as well to forward smash

Also go to a dam tournament so we can watch your matches already

 

[Nu~]

Well unfortunately, I have a big surprise...

I'm dropping Pac-Man

I love the character, but I'm slowly realizing that I just don't like the moveset. There was a lovely idea behind him, but the counterplay he has is just too great.
I'm tired of having to micromanage everything, it goes against my nature (I'm very bad with details...) It's so stressful to know that you have such little room for error...I've had more fun theorycrafting with the character's options than actually using him :/

The thing I found most fun about him was expressing my creativity through his various options and traps. Unfortunately, I find it way too hard to make art when all of my setups take too much time or have too much built in counterplay to them just because of the character's design.

I've been so optimistic with the character for such a long time because I've been trying to avoid the fact that he just doesn't click with me. Every flaw I saw, I would try to patch it up with a solution.
But you can't solve a character's design.

I'm sorry for all the past arguments and trouble I've made. I should have dropped the character sooner instead of making you guys suffer my denial.

I'll still be around. The character intrigues me from a theoretical standpoint so I'll continue to give ideas. I just can't use him anymore

 

[Froggy]

Well unfortunately, I have a big surprise...

I'm dropping Pac-Man

I love the character, but I'm slowly realizing that I just don't like the moveset. There was a lovely idea behind him, but the counterplay he has is just too great.
I'm tired of having to micromanage everything, it goes against my nature (I'm very bad with details...) It's so stressful to know that you have such little room for error...I've had more fun theorycrafting with the character's options than actually using him :/

The thing I found most fun about him was expressing my creativity through his various options and traps. Unfortunately, I find it way too hard to make art when all of my setups take too much time or have too much built in counterplay to them just because of the character's design.

I've been so optimistic with the character for such a long time because I've been trying to avoid the fact that he just doesn't click with me. Every flaw I saw, I would try to patch it up with a solution.
But you can't solve a character's design.

I'm sorry for all the past arguments and trouble I've made. I should have dropped the character sooner instead of making you guys suffer my denial.

I'll still be around. The character intrigues me from a theoretical standpoint so I'll continue to give ideas. I just can't use him anymore

Who are you switching to?

 

[Nu~]

Who are you switching to?

I'm using Lucas as of now, but I'm still dancing around the roster to see what "clicks" with me.

So far, Lucas's mixups and ability to both zone and rushdown are intriguing. He doesn't require any micromanagent either, so it isn't a chore to pick up the controller.

I've also thought about using robin or mega man again(but would only use mega if customs came back. Hyper bomb traps are fun)

 

[NimbusSpark]

Well unfortunately, I have a big surprise...

I'm dropping Pac-Man

I love the character, but I'm slowly realizing that I just don't like the moveset. There was a lovely idea behind him, but the counterplay he has is just too great.
I'm tired of having to micromanage everything, it goes against my nature (I'm very bad with details...) It's so stressful to know that you have such little room for error...I've had more fun theorycrafting with the character's options than actually using him :/

The thing I found most fun about him was expressing my creativity through his various options and traps. Unfortunately, I find it way too hard to make art when all of my setups take too much time or have too much built in counterplay to them just because of the character's design.

I've been so optimistic with the character for such a long time because I've been trying to avoid the fact that he just doesn't click with me. Every flaw I saw, I would try to patch it up with a solution.
But you can't solve a character's design.

I'm sorry for all the past arguments and trouble I've made. I should have dropped the character sooner instead of making you guys suffer my denial.

I'll still be around. The character intrigues me from a theoretical standpoint so I'll continue to give ideas. I just can't use him anymore

Well, I wish you luck for the future man. You're always welcome to the Pac-Boards, after all, you were one of those few that made it better for all of us.
Also, you saying that has made me want to mention I rediscovered my potential with Mario, especially when playing skilfully as him in For Glory, thus I'm secondaring him again. Not sure if I may drop Pac as a main well, or get up having Mario as my second main. Either way, I obviously have no hate on for Pac. He's still a character which I'm fluent and solid with.

 

[Froggy]

I'm using Lucas as of now, but I'm still dancing around the roster to see what "clicks" with me.

So far, Lucas's mixups and ability to both zone and rushdown are intriguing. He doesn't require any micromanagent either, so it isn't a chore to pick up the controller.

I've also thought about using robin or mega man again(but would only use mega if customs came back. Hyper bomb traps are fun)

Well I totally understand the need for a less complex character sometime you just want to play a character who uses less thinking energy preferably one with a stronger CQC moveset. On that note I've picked up Toon Link and my second I've been having so much playing him that on a good day I think of co-maining him. I'd like to suggest you try doing that instead But honestly co-maining characters in this game seems nearly impossible, I don't understand how the top players are able to have such strong secondaries it must take an incredible amount of time dedicated to this game.

personally I have hard time imagining myself enjoying this game if I'm not maining Pacman, I'm a defensive player so a character like Pacman is ideal for my game style. You always insisted that Pacman should be played a little more aggressively so I think it may be best for you to switch. The only character I could ever switch Pacman for is Toon Link I guess.

 

[BSP]

Hmm, I've been feeling the opposite as of late. With the changes to shields, I want to use Pac-Man more. I may even try to use Pac-Man in teams now because I can throw out well spaced things with much more confidence now. Our defensive game was already top notch, and now it's even harder to deal with. We're already used to not being to shieldgrab anything but very unsafe moves, so not much has changed for us defensively.

 

[Nu~]

I'll probably just take a break from pac and come back later. Maybe that's what I need

Hmm, I've been feeling the opposite as of late. With the changes to shields, I want to use Pac-Man more. I may even try to use Pac-Man in teams now because I can throw out well spaced things with much more confidence now. Our defensive game was already top notch, and now it's even harder to deal with. We're already used to not being to shieldgrab anything but very unsafe moves, so not much has changed for us defensively.

How many attacks are safe now? Bair is safe, but was anything affected that much?

 

[fromundaman]

Shame to see you go Pacman9. Hope you have success with your new mains and feel welcome to stop in anytime! I do understand the need for a less complex character; do what you have to do to have fun and success.

Hmm, I've been feeling the opposite as of late. With the changes to shields, I want to use Pac-Man more. I may even try to use Pac-Man in teams now because I can throw out well spaced things with much more confidence now. Our defensive game was already top notch, and now it's even harder to deal with. We're already used to not being to shieldgrab anything but very unsafe moves, so not much has changed for us defensively.

Ehhh yes and no. I need to get used to the new shield stun. I keep trying to trampoline OoS with the same timing I used to and having the input get eaten by shieldstun, especially for moves that received major blockstun changes (Like Wii fit Nair).

______

So my event yesterday went okay; not as well as I'd have liked but didn't do horribly either.
My entire scene was unseeded for some reason, so we were all put into pools with people who were rather high seeds, which led to a lot of upsets and rage in pools as every single one of us made it out.
Pools were 8 man round robins, I ended up losing to Boss, my teammate who plays Wii Fit (Those matches were SOOOO hype) and a Falco (Anyone have Falco advice? The only one I played against since the game dropped was in For Glory back when I mained Megaman in 3DS.) to make 4th seed.

In bracket I lost to a good Ness and another teammate I usually go back and forth with who plays Samus.

While all my matches were close and I don't feel I played terribly, I need to get on the grind and level up, because I am not satisfied with this placement (27th I think?).

 

[BSP]

How many attacks are safe now? Bair is safe, but was anything affected that much?

Bair is all I really need. Key in hand is also a huge problem for people now. Nair -> trampoline is also very safe vs some characters now.

Ehhh yes and no. I need to get used to the new shield stun. I keep trying to trampoline OoS with the same timing I used to and having the input get eaten by shieldstun, especially for moves that received major blockstun changes (Like Wii fit Nair).

Yeah. My OoS inputs are being eaten frequently. Once we get used to it though, not much in terms of shieldgrabbing will have changed.

Also, are you talking about BH5? You went to a national and played 2 people in tournament that you could play locally?

 

[Splebel]

How do all of you get the key so easily? The only way I can do it consistently is by doing it off stage and if I do I usually get killed or I get the key knocked out of my hand. Is there some way you all do it that I'm not seeing?

 

[NimbusSpark]

How do all of you get the key so easily? The only way I can do it consistently is by doing it off stage and if I do I usually get killed or I get the key knocked out of my hand. Is there some way you all do it that I'm not seeing?

Another way you could grab the key is simply letting yourself get hit by a weak projectile such as Falco's lasers whilst you're charging it. This does require a little bit of timing to pull off, but it's still got as much reward as grabbing the key off-stage whilst being less complicated.

 

[BSP]

@PEPESPAIN i put a match in the video thread vs a mario on wifi. I run away pretty much the entire time and let Mario's mistakes lead to my KOs.

Splebel do what NimbusSpark said, or only go for the offstage re catch method once you've knocked them away / done something to give yourself enough time to obtain the key safely.

 

[Nu~]

What am I doing?

I've decided to keep playing the Pac. I've put too much into the character to leave him. The new patch helps his shield problems a lot and makes a more aggressive style possible (YES!)

Less counterplay is all I wanted and now that fruit can't be easily shielded anymore + my aerials are safe on shield, I got my wish. I'll try to reduce the micromanagement pacman requires by simply playing him differently then most pacs...

I know how much you guys are gonna disagree with me but...the aggro trap era of Pac-Man has begun! Finally Of course I'll still play defensively when needed, but it won't be as much anymore

 

[Paper Maribro]

So I had a tourney yesterday and it went really, really well. Finally hit top 3 for the first time ever. Round 1 was Falcon dittos with one of my mates. Landed a sick reverse falcon punch. Game 2 beat a Pit who is 6th in our region. Close games but I clutched it out. Game 2 was incredibly annoying because of the dumb grab glitch. Pivot grabbed really smartly, spaced it correctly for any normal grab but oh no, my hand isn't a grab box for some reason. Ate a down smash and died at a really low percent. Next up was 9th who uses Mario. I hate the MU so I went Little Mac and just clutched it out. He switched to Mega Man and I beat him comfortably. Next up was 7th, a Ness. Took Game 1 comfortably, game 2 was very close but I made a dirty possible shield break set up on Delfino. Unfortunately I didn't get the shield break but he dropped shield and ate an Fsmash. Winners finals was against our number 1, a Rosalina. I went Pac game 1 and lost in a big way. Switched to Yoshi after that, took a game but he killed me at 50% on Castle Siege off the top and after that I knew it was over . Losers finals I played against a ZSS. Took game 1 with a nice gimp but holy crap. Her Up and down B are so powerful you're never truly ahead of her. I went down 3-2, losing after a number of misinputs. All In really happy with my first top 3 placing.

Nu~ Good to hear you're sticking around bro. I too, have felt like giving up on this character because of how underpowered he feels and how much natural counterplay exists to his tools. I have played 15 (I think) characters in tournament because of this but I have always gone back to Pac. I occasionally switch it up when I don't like the MU but on the whole I've been back to Pac.

fromundaman Congrats on your result dude, even if you are a little disappointed with it. Good luck in the future bro

 

[Nu~]

Paper Maribro

Oh I never felt that he was underpowered, I just thought that maybe he didn't click with me. Boy was I wrong lol. The character was made for me

 

[fromundaman]

No, I was at an E-Sport Initiative event in Cincinnati called All Mid. Probably would have been huge if it hadn't been scheduled on the same weekend as BH5. As it was it turned into a regional with roughly 80 people I think? I made 25th.

I do feel like I need to change my OoS game so much though. Lots of inputs getting eaten, and pretty much everything that used to be punishable by grab on shield (Admittedly not a whole lot, but I had a pretty good idea of what was) no longer is, something I found out the hard way and got punished for a lot yesterday.

 

[BSP]

If you guys saw abadango's pac-man vs Anti's Luigi, just know that if Abadango would've trampolined every time he placed a hydrant, he probably would've won. Luigi can't punish whiffed trampoline unless he gets the luckiest misfire every time. He can smack your hydrant easily, but he can't do anything about the trampoline. Nu~
I saw you trying to tell people that in the big house 5 commentary thread. That's the problem when abadango doesn't play a MU optimally. People get the wrong idea >_>

Same thing with Fox. Abadango didn't camp the ledge vs. Megafox. He did fine game 1, but game 2 was much closer and ended up as a loss for him. Megafox clearly didn't know the MU as he was jumping over hydrant as opposed to running through it. If I sound like I'm beating "camp the ledge!1!!!1" to death, it's because fast characters who know the MU will force you to do so. Hydrant is not good cover vs Sonic, Falcon, Mac, Fox, and more or less ZSS.

 

[Froggy]

I need to rant

Now that I've committed to forming a strong secondary/co-main I am realizing how detrimental playing Pacman is for my understanding of the game. Pac-man has an ability to warp the neutral that no other character does and playing an honest neutral is just foreign to me. The skills I have formed playing Pacman will not transfer over to my other characters and that sucks. I feel like I need to drop Pacman for a while and devote myself to Toon Link if I want my TL to be on the same level as my Pacman.

I’m worried I may need to put in the same amount of time in my Toon Link that I did with my Pacman and that just won’t be possible. I’m not in a position to travel to locals every week and test things out or spend dozens of nights on For Glory anymore like I used to. God knows I had some demoralizing and embarrassing losses with Pacman before I figured out what to do in a lot of matchups and it may just not be practical to go through all that again.

Also learning matchups with a new character post-customs is bizarre to me. Previously when I lost my matches I’d thought about what I had trouble dealing with and what customs would help me counteract it and adjust accordingly. Even when customs came off I still had a solid understanding of what needed to be counteracted in a matchup. Now forming counter strategies with a character who has less options even if strong options is such a fr0ustratingly slow process. Maybe I’m being a baby about it but its upsetting.

 

[BSP]

I need to rant

Now that I've committed to forming a strong secondary/co-main I am realizing how detrimental playing Pacman is for my understanding of the game. Pac-man has an ability to warp the neutral that no other character does and playing an honest neutral is just foreign to me. The skills I have formed playing Pacman will not transfer over to my other characters and that sucks. I feel like I need to drop Pacman for a while and devote myself to Toon Link if I want my TL to be on the same level as my Pacman.

This is the main reason why I consider Pac-Man a main or bust character. The game you play with him =/= the game you play with everyone else for the most part. This is probably why it's hard to permanently drop him if you've spent a lot of time with him. You get so used to his control factors (which will hurt your honest neutral skills) that when you don't have them, you're more likely to lose neutral more frequently since you never play it normally. This happens to me a lot when I go Mario vs high mobility characters. Since I don't have a trampoline to invalidate their grounded mixups, I'm much more likely to get exposed in neutral.

On the flip side though, this is why people have no clue what to do when they run into a competent Pac-Man for the first time. Nobody else can remove your options like he can.

This is the main reason I want my Pac-Man to work in teams, because I know that disconnect between him and Mario will always be there. I mean, the basic fundamentals like spacing and reads still carry over, but that's about it. Another problem is movement techniques. I don't bother perfecting perfect pivots or my dash dance whatevers because I know good and well that I'll have hydrant or trampoline out 90% of the time, disrupting ground movement. When I try to play a character like Falcon who needs this stuff, learning is a near waste of time when I go back to Pac-Man.

Nu~ Fruits aren't that much safer. It's still easy to shield -> steal if one hits your shield, so don't get too crazy with throwing them.

 

[Spirst]

I have to say, this:

Well unfortunately, I have a big surprise...

I'm dropping Pac-Man

What am I doing?

I've decided to keep playing the Pac

This cracked me up. Not even a full 24 hour day. You will never stop playing Pacman. It's your fate.

 

[Splebel]

I have to say, this:





This cracked me up. Not even a full 24 hour day. You will never stop playing Pacman. It's your fate.

I bet he did it so it would make front page news on the site and then everyone would come here. Then when it didn't work he changed his mind.

 

[Nu~]

I have to say, this:

This cracked me up. Not even a full 24 hour day. You will never stop playing Pacman. It's your fate.

I'm binded to the great Pac-Soul
Man I hate the idea of fate lol

I bet he did it so it would make front page news on the site and then everyone would come here. Then when it didn't work he changed his mind.

 

[Lavani]

Question, Pac-Mains: Does a trampoline below the ledge catch ledgesnaps?

Just curious because I've never seen it before, and it seems like a really easy way to sabotage a recovery if it works.

 

[Splebel]

Question, Pac-Mains: Does a trampoline below the ledge catch ledgesnaps?

Just curious because I've never seen it before, and it seems like a really easy way to sabotage a recovery if it works.

I've tried this but I've never seriously done it only because at ledge snap range you also ledge snap but I would say no. Or no when the person is invincible.

Edit: I read your signature so the holding down trick might work but I don't know.

 

[MachoCheeze]

I just got done with huge training session with one of my good friends and I can safely say this patch has made Pac-Man immensely better. The shield pressure we can put on now (especially with launch hydrant and Key) is awesome. Bair is great for spacing. I felt like I had way more time to do my set ups and way more freedom in general. Melon is still generally unsafe on shield which kind sucks, but you can't always get what you want. Well spaced f-smashed hydrant is fairly safe on shield and there were a few times I almost got a shield break with it.

This patch helps our defensive game a lot, but I really feel like it makes our offensive pressure shine. I feel so optimistic about Pac now. I was giving the best player in our state a run for his money tonight and he feels like Pac-Man has really changed too. He said fighting him was a lot harder and he felt like I wasn't held back by my character now. I love this patch!!

---

Also on the other note of Pac-Man making other characters feel weird I don't seem to have that problem. I feel fine with my secondaries (Ganon and Charizard). I almost feel relieved sometimes that I don't have those tools cause I can get overwhelmed by Pac at points. But then again maybe I'm just lucky being able to transition just fine?

 

[fromundaman]

Question, Pac-Mains: Does a trampoline below the ledge catch ledgesnaps?

Just curious because I've never seen it before, and it seems like a really easy way to sabotage a recovery if it works.

No, but they are unable to grab the ledge immediately after hitting trampoline. I've gotten a few kills on people who hit trampoline which forces them into a hitbox above the ledge.


___________

I don't really have too many issues switching off Pacman, but due to the time I've spent on him, he is leagues ahead of most of my other characters. That said, when I feel myself start to auto-pilot I do find myself switching to Mario. Pacman is a terrible character to auto-pilot on.

__________

As for the patch... IDK. I do feel like we've gotten better from it, but playing against some other characters at All Mid I feel like we may not have benefited as much as some other characters, especially most of the low tiers.

Take Palutena for example, her Fair is now 100% safe on block, as is her jab 1, and she can punish any attempt to punish her with grab or jab. Bair is either safe on block or damn near it (Keeping in mind her Bair also beats everything, that's dangerous). Her having safe pokes makes her MUCH better and allows her to actually have a spacing game and turned her into a kind of dangerous footsie character all of a sudden.

Olimar is in a similar boat. If you block a pikmin latched to you, he can confirm that into a grab from mid distance. That's a big deal as it makes getting latched VERY dangerous and forces a reaction.

Little Mac breaks your shield now if you block even a single Dtilt as it hit confirms into Fsmash on block.

Bowser's grounded DownB now combos into itself on block for guaranteed shield breaks, making him much more dangerous to block against (Although this still won't be enough to make him good).

Wii Fit trainer's Nair isn't completely safe, but it's a much more solid approach tool that is considerably harder to punish, especially if it crosses up. While it doesn't affect us too much, characters without a 1 frame punish may have a rough time with it. Oh, and she has soccer ball setups that guarantee grabs if you block.

Compared to some of those characters, our gains from this patch, while important, don't seem quite as significant.

I am really hype for this though, as more character diversity is always a good thing.

 

[ToxoT]

ive been spending a lot of time figuring out combos, and i hope to eventually put a video together showing what i think should be our bread and butter. the key is our most damaging and fastest fruit, and is a great combo and string finisher. there are some very situational kill confirms like fair into key after racking up %100, this is best against light characters such as rosalina and sheik and what we should aim for when fighting them.

but even before that, dash attack combos into key from %0 to around %70. this gets us a quick %24 and if the dash attack should connect near the edge it can kill. you will have to double jump and buffer the key except when they're at %0, just fullhop then, you can also land a fair if they arent knocked far away, %29 if all hits connect. you can substitute the key for melon as well and regrab with fair. a frame perfect landing nair can also combo into key and kill on the edge around %50. if you cant charge to a key another high damaging combo from %0 is this, charge to an apple, dash attack, full hop throw apple, regrab with nair, if all hits connect its %28. most of our fruits can connect after dash attack and be regrabbed easily.

another thing ive been practing is zdropping and regrabbing fruits with aerials. lets say theres a galaxian laying on the ground, you can regrab it with short hop fair, z drop, regrab with any aerial while landing, and throw it or jump and zdrop again. ive shown off the dash attack to bell to side b a lot lately, but the dash attack can be substituted for uair or nair in this way too. uair has very little knockback, and regrabbing a fruit, i think optimally would be galaxian, could let into a lot of shield pressure or big damage combos if the uair should connect. i'll try to put together some more combos with this.

 

[Froggy]

At what percents would dash attack into bell,to side b work? Would you get the full animation of the side out of this? Because if you're releasing it immediately then you may as well just go for uair.

 

[ToxoT]

dash attack to bell to side b has to be done while regrabbing the bell with dash attack, this works between %40 and %80. you can also just throw the bell out of neutral b, but you'll have to let go of side b earlier or else it wont combo.

 

[BSP]

Do any of you know of any recent footage of Pac-Man in teams? The best I could find was HIDE + Ginko from the most recent big japanese tournament, but it's not the greatest example. Ginko kept using hydrant even though Villager was on the screen, and it ended up getting him and his partner KO'd a lot, sometimes sub 100%. I would like to see more so that I'm not missing anything when I try Pac-Man in teams. I want to make it work. Ranai makes it work with Villager, so I should be able to make it work with Pac-Man.

 

[ToxoT]

heres a video demonstrating most of what i said in the above posts, even a few other things like nair into jab and fair into ftilt

 

[Froggy]

So I was watching the live stream matches of the tourney I entered over the weekend and even though I didn't break top 8 like I had hoped I still did make an impression. The commentators were mentioning how impressive my run in losers bracket was and who I beat ^_^