Official Pac-Man's Amazing Full Colour Fan Club! - Pac-Man General Thread

[WeirdChillFever]

Trampoline goes through the stage, hard to set up hydrants Because they'll be rolling in the deep at your opponent, fruit is caught on the ramp...Easy catch

Are we talking about the same Lylat, here? I hate that stage as Pac-Man.

So does every other character, but we can Hydrant opponents to death easily due to shippy ledge.

I also agree with your Rosa thing. It's not awful, but I keep my Mario/Luigi backed up for Rosa due to a personal hatred of the Pac / Rosa MU. It can be really boring to play.

 

[Galaxian]

Still doesn't mean I like it though. Maybe it's not as bad as I thought but man ****
Lylat.

 

[fromundaman]

Trampoline goes through the stage, hard to set up hydrants, fruit is caught on the ramp...

Are we talking about the same Lylat, here? I hate that stage as Pac-Man.

I understand. I did at too first, but we do actually have some dirt here:

-Slants mean both weird bounces for hydrants and fruits that our opponents won't be familiar with and an easy time regrabbing fruits for a Z-drop. This is especially good with Melon as it means we can set up near instant melon regrabs for Up thrown Melon at the ledge edge-guards. Also you can throw an apple behind an opponent and have it turn around thanks to the slants to hit them, or jab launch a hydrant behind you into a slant, then have it follow you as it bounces back your way.

-Slants with platforms means we can do the thing I talked about for Castle Seige where you Z-drop a fruit, let it bounce to the hydrant at which point it will bounce up to the platform. This allows for a moving hitbox that controls a large part of the stage.

-Platforms are low enough for instant hydrant launches with Usmash.

-Our recovery doesn't care about Lylat while most other characters do. Combine lylat with our good edge guarding abilities and returning onstage is rough for most of the cast.

-Engines are where the main stage splits (The main stage is actually made up of 3 platforms connected at the engines. More info on that here: http://smashboards.com/threads/we-need-to-talk-about-lylat-cruise.396579/page-3#post-18871120 ). This is actually both really dumb and really good for Pacman, for it means if you Z-drop a fruit (Especially a high blockstun fruit) on someone who's on the engine, you can FF and option select a punish/follow up.
If the fruit hits, awesome, combo off of it.
If it gets blocked, awesome, abuse the fact that this stage is poorly designed and that the shieldstun pushes them off of one "platform" and momentarily airborne over the other, putting them into untechable knockdown. Fsmash, or if you're fast, jablock them for daring to stand on the glitchiest part of this stage.

-placing a hydrant on a platform then hydrant gushing fruits from above or below causes some very interesting and unpredictable bounces.



Characters to take here:

-Characters with Teleport recoveries.
-Characters with bad recoveries.
-Characters who's game plan heavily utilizes projectiles or horizontal spacing moves but that can't zone/space around the slants (IE: Megaman, Samus, DHD, Lucario, etc.)
-Shiek. Just yes, bring her here and watch the tears flow forth.

Characters NOT to take here:

-Characters who benefit from platforms (IE: Marth, Lucina, CF, Villager, Mario, etc.)
-Characters that also have stupid stuff on this stage, be it abusing the engine or abusing the slants.
-Floaties in general. While not a BAD idea to take them here, you don't really gain much from doing so (And Kirby actively benefits from this stage).

 

[Galaxian]

#throwbacktuesday

It seems like Pac-Man's a mix of a trapper and a sniper, but we need to see more to fully understand how his style of play works.

 

[fromundaman]

I think I may be cheating:

 

[BSP]

Do we have all of our moves' KO potentials stored somewhere? It'd be nice to avoid placebo effects tomorrow.

 

[Galaxian]

I think I may be cheating:

Yoyo Glitch for Smash 4 confirmed?

 

[Nu~]

I think I may be cheating:

Pikachu's stupid hurtbox during quick attack

 

[Galaxian]

Do we have all of our moves' KO potentials stored somewhere? It'd be nice to avoid placebo effects tomorrow.

Dair: INSTANT KO USE IT AT ALL TIMES

 

[COLINBG]

Do we have all of our moves' KO potentials stored somewhere? It'd be nice to avoid placebo effects tomorrow.

Not sure if that's what you wanted, but I tested every move to see at what percent they KO.

Everything was done on a CPU Mario on Final Destination, near the ledge where the CPU spawns.

Cherry: 448%
Strawberry: 333%
Orange: 188%
Apple: 145%
Melon: 140%
Galaxian: 228%
Bell: 177%
Key: 125%
Dropped hydrant: 234%
Launched hydrant: 134%
SideB: 107%
UpB: 233%

Jab (landing the three hits): 250%
Dtilt: 264%
Ftilt: 192%
Utilt: 191%
Dash Attack (landing the three hits): Around 298%

Uthrow: Around 208%
Dthrow: Around 379%
Fthrow: Around 403%
Bthrow: Around 158%

Nair: 157%
Bair: 147%
Fair: 331%
Uair: 191%
Dair (landing the four hits): Around 202%

Dsmash (uncharged): 123%
Dsmash (fully charged): 85%
Fsmash (uncharged): 95%
Fsmash (fully charged): 60% (Who said Pac's smash was weak?)
Usmash (uncharged): 115%
Usmash (fully charged): 74%

I wrote ''around'' for throws, dash attack, and Dair, because they are multi hit moves. It's hard to land the first hit and still connect the last without moving Mario a little bit, so they might be 1/2% wrong.

--------​

The moves that can kill reliably (<130%) are:
- Key
- SideB
- All smashes, charged or not

The smashes can all kill before 100% (charged), so it's your best option if you have the opportunity for an early punish. SideB at a little higher percent, for when the smashes can't reach or you make a good read. The key comes a little later, but it's super safe and harder to dodge, so I feel like it becomes our primary kill option at some point.

The moves that can kill semi-reliably (<160%) are:
- Apple
- Melon
- Launched hydrant
- Bthrow
- Nair
- Bair

Apple and Melon become available soon, especially if you catch people offstage, so letting you charge becomes more dangerous. Launched hydrant is a solid projectile overall, and coupled with key it's devastating. If you happen to grab near the ledge, a Bthrow can kill at higher percents. It's not Ness', but it's something. Nair and Bair will be your primary gimping tools (they will kill earlier than the percents listed, because you usually do them offstage). Because of Pac's gameplay's nature, it's not rare to get the opponent to these percents. You're not a Diddy killing at 80 every stock. We just have to accept the fact that Pac is more defensive and will kill later; these moves will come in handy then. Pac doesn't have trouble killing, he just has to reach a certain point to do it.

The moves that can kill at really high percent (<200%) are:
- Orange
- Bell
- Ftilt
- Utilt
- Uair

If you fight a Bowser or if the opponent is super safe, might have to use these. The orange offers more flexibility than the Key because you can throw it again faster. Tilts become a quick option up close. Don't count on them to kill in a normal situation, but if the rest didn't work, it's always good to know they can.

The moves you won't be killing with (>200%) are:
- Cherry
- Strawberry
- Galaxian
- Dropped hydrant
- UpB
- Jab
- Dtilt
- Dash attack
- Uthrow
- Dthrow
- Fthrow
- Fair
- Dair

Keep in mind this is with no rage on Pacman, no DI from the opponent, and it's with Mario's weight. Some moves I said won't be killing CAN kill earlier, but you need to set them up, and either gimp or combo into them (Fair is the perfect example).


Edited for a cleaner, more precise final version.

 

[Banjobeast158]

I better start saving that cherry for my KO move

 

[fromundaman]

Not sure if that's what you wanted, but I tested every move to see at what percent they KO.

Everything was done on a CPU Mario on Final Destination, near the ledge where the CPU spawns (I assume CPUs don't DI). Since I did not want rage to affect the results, I did everything at 0% (except the projectiles). I had to replace Mario manually to where I wanted him after I had done the damage, so I might be a couple of pixels too close or too far on some of these, but I don't think it affected the results significantly.

The margin of error depends on what moves I used. I'm sure of the results for the hydrant and fruits, but the other might be slightly incorrect. I just spammed the move until it killed. For example, Ftilt does 8%. I Ftilted at 188%, it didn't kill and did 8%, then it killed at 196%. So the real result could be anywhere between 189% and 196%. Since the (charged) smashes do more damage, I did a little more testing on them to make sure I wasn't 20% off. So overall I think the results are reliable, but they are not perfect, so keep that in mind. It would be really long to do everything perfectly, so I don't know if someone will.

The last number is the one at which I killed, the first one is the smallest of the margin of error. If there's only one number it's because I'm sure of that percent.

Cherry: 448%
Strawberry: 333%
Orange: 188%
Apple: 145%
Melon: 140%
Galaxian: 228%
Bell: 177%
Key: 125%

Dropped hydrant: 234%
Launched hydrant: 134%
SideB: 93% - 103%
UpB: 231% - 238%

Jab (3): 251% - 260%
Dtilt: 257% - 263%
Ftilt: 188% - 196%
Utilt: 190% - 197%
Dash Attack: 299% - 308%

Uthrow: 205% - 210%
Dthrow: 378% - 388%
Fthrow: 401% - 407
Bthrow: 155% - 166%

Nair: 150% - 160%
Bair: 135% - 147%
Fair: 326% - 331%
Uair: 187% - 197%
Edit: forgot Dair, but that move is useless anyway and I'm lazy. Maybe I'll do it later.

Dsmash (uncharged): 126%
Dsmash (fully charged): 86%
Fsmash (uncharged): 99%
Fsmash (fully charged): 64%
Usmash (uncharged): 125%
Usmash (fully charged): 88%
The smahes are around these values. Maybe like 10% off max.

We can see that several moves can absolutely not kill, even at really high percents.

The moves that can kill reliably are:
- Apple
- Melon
- Key
- Launched hydrant
- SideB
- Bair
- All smashes

The moves that can kill semi-reliably but require a certain setup/position/a little more damage are:
- Orange
- Bell
- Bthrow
- All aerials except Fair (sorry Fair) and probably Dair.

Some of the other stuff can kill too, but requires the opponent to be at a really really high percent (Galaxian, Tilts, etc), or to be very far away from the ledge (Fair).

Thank you very much for this info!

Out of curiosity, this was all done in training mode right? (AKA no stale moves?)

 

[COLINBG]

Thank you very much for this info!

Out of curiosity, this was all done in training mode right? (AKA no stale moves?)

Training indeed. And no problem, I love to do this stuff, so even though it was kinda long I enjoyed it.

Edit: Waaait, is rage taken into account in training? I assumed it did, but if not I'll redo it with the correct exact %s.

 

[Galaxian]

Alright, Pac-Mains. Let's all cross our fingers and hope the patch is kind to us.

FIX THAT GODDAMN DEADSPOT ON HIS HAND OR SO HELP ME

 

[fromundaman]

Training indeed. And no problem, I love to do this stuff, so even though it was kinda long I enjoyed it.

Edit: Waaait, is rage taken into account in training? I assumed it did, but if not I'll redo it with the correct exact %s.

Yeah training mode has no rage, but don't worry too much about that; this gives us a great idea of what moves kill in what situations.


What I would like to know but have no idea how to test is if it's harder to DI USmash than Fsmash, because I swear it feels like Usmash always kills earlier for me.


EDIT:

That deadspot is the only thing I wouldn't mind seeing changed; otherwise don't touch us please!

 

[BSP]

I'd like a pre patch trampoline so up B's are safe on hit :\

 

[Galaxian]

Patch is live! Can't say for sure but I BELIEVE the deadspot is fixed.

 

[Pacack]

PAC HAS GOTTEN BUFFED.

I AM SO UNBELIEVABLY HAPPY

 

[Galaxian]

Grab got MEGA buffed. Grab going out is still same speed, but it returns to Pac much faster, so it has less lag. I've heard he does more overall damage, too.

I'm upset about the Ness nerf but I'll cope.

 

[BSP]

Not to sub mod or anything, but can we keep change talk in the changes thread? I'd rather not have to switch back and forth to talk about the same thing.

 

[SegaNintendoUbisoft]

Glad to see Pac-Man got buffed.

 

[Nu~]

Glad to see Pac-Man got buffed.

But he didn't

 

[SegaNintendoUbisoft]

But he didn't

He didn't?

 

[Nu~]

He didn't?

Nope. These people were suffering from the placebo effect.

Thinkaman tested these claims and they are all untrue

 

[SegaNintendoUbisoft]

Nope. These people were suffering from the placebo effect.

Thinkaman tested these claims and they are all untrue

Oh, well, that's a shame.

 

[fromundaman]

Yo **** new lylat. How can they not get this stage right?

I just lost loser's finals because when the stage tilted my offstage trampoline, the one I was using to recover and had only used one bounce of, completely disappeared for no reason whatsoever.

 

[COLINBG]

Nope. These people were suffering from the placebo effect.

Thinkaman tested these claims and they are all untrue

Even the grab?

 

[Nu~]

Even the grab?

Unfortunately, yes.

 

[NimbusSpark]

Unfortunately, yes.

Wait, even the kill power of Pac's Forward and Up Smash as well?
I clearly remember that Up Smash now kills Mario at 110% rather than 133% from the post I made last night...

 

[Nu~]

Wait, even the kill power of Pac's Forward and Up Smash as well?
I clearly remember that Up Smash now kills Mario at 110% rather than 133% from the post I made last night...

3ds blast zones are smaller.

People die much later on 3ds

 

[NimbusSpark]

3ds blast zones are larger

Damn it.

 

[COLINBG]

Wattup; It's on, baby.

Still missing the adapter though. I procrastinated like always and ordered it later than I should've.

 

[Galaxian]

Congrats!

You could always buy a third-party one, but yeah, good to hear you got a Wii U.

Getting on a new topic - how do the Pac-Boards feel about Mewtwo? He's fun as **** for me, I love playing him.

I don't know how his MU against Pac would feel - but I feel like Pac-Man can outclass him just slightly. Confusion's reflector lasting forever is a little annoying, but like any character with one you should just play smart.

 

[Pacack]

Congrats!

You could always buy a third-party one, but yeah, good to hear you got a Wii U.

Getting on a new topic - how do the Pac-Boards feel about Mewtwo? He's fun as **** for me, I love playing him.

I don't know how his MU against Pac would feel - but I feel like Pac-Man can outclass him just slightly. Confusion's reflector lasting forever is a little annoying, but like any character with one you should just play smart.

Mewtwo's interesting, but not my playstyle.

I think we have a slight advantage over him. He doesn't deal too well with us rushing him down, and his reflector is unreliable. Combined with that, he's really easy to kill, which patches up one of Pac's main weaknesses.

 

[Galaxian]

Mewtwo's interesting, but not my playstyle.

I think we have a slight advantage over him. He doesn't deal too well with us rushing him down, and his reflector is unreliable. Combined with that, he's really easy to kill, which patches up one of Pac's main weaknesses.

I like him a little. I might secondary him, he's fun.

Yeah, this is what I was getting at. I haven't done the MU, at all, so I can't say for certain. But by looks it might be in Pac's favor.

 

[fromundaman]

I'm thinking of seconding him as well; he is a lot of fun and completely different from my other characters.

That said, IDK how the MU would go as I haven't played it.

He can't reflect fast fruits on reaction, but he has no trouble reflecting hydrant and disabling traps.
While we can kill him early, he too hits like a truck and a good read can murder us.
I do feel like Key can be used to abuse his greatest weakness though: punishing his landings.

No idea if his tilts can be used to shut down our aerial approaches or not, or if that's even practical to do.

 

[DJDave189]

Mewtwo is really fun to play and is my second favorite pokemon to play with after Jigglypuff. However I just like playing him for fun. I'm already focused on Pac-Man and Wario more and kind of Duck Hunt as well. But yeah between Pac-Man and Mewtwo I say that Pac-Man has the advantage.

 

[SegaNintendoUbisoft]

Mewtwo plays good, he's not a main or secondary, but he's fun.

 

[meleebrawler]

I'm thinking of seconding him as well; he is a lot of fun and completely different from my other characters.

That said, IDK how the MU would go as I haven't played it.

He can't reflect fast fruits on reaction, but he has no trouble reflecting hydrant and disabling traps.
While we can kill him early, he too hits like a truck and a good read can murder us.
I do feel like Key can be used to abuse his greatest weakness though: punishing his landings.

No idea if his tilts can be used to shut down our aerial approaches or not, or if that's even practical to do.

He'll probably Spark your aerials (Nair) or Usmash if he feels confident.

Challenging Mewtwo in the air isn't the greatest idea since his fair is just as fast as Pac's and hits
way harder, and bair solidly outranges everything. Only chase him in the air if you put him there.

Mewtwo can use Confusion when landing to throw off your timing, and maybe get a reflect if he's lucky.

Pac-Man will probably want to play aggressively, both because his moves are faster and you don't want
him to freely get charged Shadow Balls. Not only are they beastly powerful, but he can use their recoil in the air
to maneuver frighteningly quickly.

 

[COLINBG]

The Wii U gamepad feels so weird lol. It's only been a day so I'm not fully accustomed to it, but I can't wait to get my adapter ://

Anyway, anyone here is up to some matches? I'd like to practice a bit with some characters (and do Pac dittos :D) and see how you guys play.