fromundaman
Henshin a go-go Baby!
So I found some interesting things that may or may not be useful:
-Z-dropped Cherry leads immediately into a footstool or grab on hit. I am trying to figure out if we can Fast Fall into a Fair jablock off of this, because if we can this is kind of big.
-If you instant grab an item with Z and press A a little afterwards, you will instant throw that item. This is a known mechanic that's carried over from Brawl. What is new (Or at least I never heard of it in Brawl), is that if you press Z and A at the same time, instead of throwing the item, you will instantly grab and redrop the item.
The reason this is useful is because most of our items bounce up after hitting a shield. Doing this above someone who just blocked a Z-dropped item refreshes the Z-dropped item's hitbox, allowing it to pressure the shield again.
I don't think this is a block infinite (Although Apple and Melon have quite a bit of blockstun so who knows?), BUT it DOES make our Z-drop fruits infinitely more dangerous on shield.
EDIT:
Damn it... We can't seem to get a jablock off of that 1st thing. I thought so for a bit, but attempting to roll with the 2nd controller showed me none of those were actually jablocking as our footstool brings us too high up.
Still, it's a good way to set up a jablock in doubles.
Also it works with the strawberry as well.
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SUPER EDIT:
Hoooooooly crap! This is a productive night of labbing.
So... anyone ever wish they could instant launch a hydrant with z-dropped fruits that aren't key? NOW YOU CAN!
That instant redrop thing is a godsend.
Jump up and Z-drop a fruit then drop a hydrant on it. When the fruit hits the hydrant, it will bounce off and back up at you. Instant Z-drop the fruit to immediately launch the hydrant. You can even regrab the fruit before it hits the ground after this so that it doesn't wear out.
This opens a lot of possibilities, especially with Apple (Because of the weird angle it launches at) and Bell (I don't know about you guys, but my opponents try to stay away when I have bell in hand. This allows me to easily zone them while keeping a ridiculous punish option in hand if they choose to approach.).
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Also we can combo a gushed Z-dropped strawberry or Orange into a launched hydrant by placing a hydrant, SH Z-drop the strawberry so that it bounces off of the hydrant, damages it, then hits the water blast just before hitting the ground (There is a very specific point you need to drop it at, but it's not really something I can explain, you just have to lab it and find the right timing). While the strawberry is doing that, drop back down and Bair the hydrant.
This causes a gushed strawberry to get launched horizontally while a hydrant bounces barely behind it and covers the jump option. If they get hit by the strawberry at anything below 100% it combos, at above that % I can't say for sure. This same method and result work with Orange, though you are far less likely to have that in hand.
You can also do this with the Apple and Melon with the same timing, and while it doesn't seem like they will combo into each other, it does kind of fill the screen with kill moves.
Z-dropped Bell can also do this, but it requires a significantly harder timing and TBH it feels like a waste of a bell.
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ONE MORE EDIT:
Oh, one more thing, and this is kind of a dirty edgeguard:
Both of the things in the "Super EDIT" can be combined for a really nasty ledgetrap.
Drop a strawberry near the ledge (Back facing away from the ledge) then drop a hydrant on it. Now catch and redrop the strawberry. DO NOT RECATCH IT A 3rd TIME!
This will cause a still active strawberry to fly in an upwards parabola offstage while keeping the hydrant at 1 HP. Now hop off and either jab or trampoline it.
This gives you what should be a BnB bouncing hydrant ledge setup with an additional hitbox flying around offstage limiting recovery options even further.
On top of that due to Strawberry's low knockback, it will never help the opponent survive and instead will make them lose height, or if you're lucky, a whole jump.
-Z-dropped Cherry leads immediately into a footstool or grab on hit. I am trying to figure out if we can Fast Fall into a Fair jablock off of this, because if we can this is kind of big.
-If you instant grab an item with Z and press A a little afterwards, you will instant throw that item. This is a known mechanic that's carried over from Brawl. What is new (Or at least I never heard of it in Brawl), is that if you press Z and A at the same time, instead of throwing the item, you will instantly grab and redrop the item.
The reason this is useful is because most of our items bounce up after hitting a shield. Doing this above someone who just blocked a Z-dropped item refreshes the Z-dropped item's hitbox, allowing it to pressure the shield again.
I don't think this is a block infinite (Although Apple and Melon have quite a bit of blockstun so who knows?), BUT it DOES make our Z-drop fruits infinitely more dangerous on shield.
EDIT:
Damn it... We can't seem to get a jablock off of that 1st thing. I thought so for a bit, but attempting to roll with the 2nd controller showed me none of those were actually jablocking as our footstool brings us too high up.
Still, it's a good way to set up a jablock in doubles.
Also it works with the strawberry as well.
___________
SUPER EDIT:
Hoooooooly crap! This is a productive night of labbing.
So... anyone ever wish they could instant launch a hydrant with z-dropped fruits that aren't key? NOW YOU CAN!
That instant redrop thing is a godsend.
Jump up and Z-drop a fruit then drop a hydrant on it. When the fruit hits the hydrant, it will bounce off and back up at you. Instant Z-drop the fruit to immediately launch the hydrant. You can even regrab the fruit before it hits the ground after this so that it doesn't wear out.
This opens a lot of possibilities, especially with Apple (Because of the weird angle it launches at) and Bell (I don't know about you guys, but my opponents try to stay away when I have bell in hand. This allows me to easily zone them while keeping a ridiculous punish option in hand if they choose to approach.).
_____
Also we can combo a gushed Z-dropped strawberry or Orange into a launched hydrant by placing a hydrant, SH Z-drop the strawberry so that it bounces off of the hydrant, damages it, then hits the water blast just before hitting the ground (There is a very specific point you need to drop it at, but it's not really something I can explain, you just have to lab it and find the right timing). While the strawberry is doing that, drop back down and Bair the hydrant.
This causes a gushed strawberry to get launched horizontally while a hydrant bounces barely behind it and covers the jump option. If they get hit by the strawberry at anything below 100% it combos, at above that % I can't say for sure. This same method and result work with Orange, though you are far less likely to have that in hand.
You can also do this with the Apple and Melon with the same timing, and while it doesn't seem like they will combo into each other, it does kind of fill the screen with kill moves.
Z-dropped Bell can also do this, but it requires a significantly harder timing and TBH it feels like a waste of a bell.
________________
ONE MORE EDIT:
Oh, one more thing, and this is kind of a dirty edgeguard:
Both of the things in the "Super EDIT" can be combined for a really nasty ledgetrap.
Drop a strawberry near the ledge (Back facing away from the ledge) then drop a hydrant on it. Now catch and redrop the strawberry. DO NOT RECATCH IT A 3rd TIME!
This will cause a still active strawberry to fly in an upwards parabola offstage while keeping the hydrant at 1 HP. Now hop off and either jab or trampoline it.
This gives you what should be a BnB bouncing hydrant ledge setup with an additional hitbox flying around offstage limiting recovery options even further.
On top of that due to Strawberry's low knockback, it will never help the opponent survive and instead will make them lose height, or if you're lucky, a whole jump.
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