Official Pac-Man's Amazing Full Colour Fan Club! - Pac-Man General Thread

[Jay-kun]

GUYS really. Remember when I was raging the forums about how Sonic wrecks Pac??? And what respect did I get?? NONE.Now look!!!!! The tables have turned!!!!!!

 

[Nu~]

GUYS really. Remember when I was raging the forums about how Sonic wrecks Pac??? And what respect did I get?? NONE.Now look!!!!! The tables have turned!!!!!!

I don't get why you or paper Maribo even brought it up. The past is irrelevant. Nothing is definite yet anyway.

Also, off topic:
Pac-Man's pellet stops charizard's flare blitz

 

[meleebrawler]

I don't get why you or paper Maribo even brought it up. The past is the past. Nothing is definite yet anyway.

Also, off topic:
Pac-Man's pellet stops charizard's flare blitz

Not really ground-breaking... anything with a hurtbox stops Flare Blitz, and shielding is usually
more rewarding anyway (not to say stopping it with pellet isn't funny). You can stop it with a cherry too.

In a customs world though, Zard will probably be using Dragon Rush instead, which neither pellets
nor shields will stop (but high-powered fruit might).

 

[Nu~]

Not really ground-breaking... anything with a hurtbox stops Flare Blitz, and shielding is usually
more rewarding anyway (not to say stopping it with pellet isn't funny). You can stop it with a cherry too.

In a customs world though, Zard will probably be using Dragon Rush instead, which neither pellets
nor shields will stop (but high-powered fruit might).

Oh yeah, I know...I just thought it was hilarious lol.

...and it makes me wonder if we can do the same thing to Ike's side B and the pit's side B

 

[Jay-kun]

I don't get why you or paper Maribo even brought it up. The past is irrelevant. Nothing is definite yet anyway.

Also, off topic:
Pac-Man's pellet stops charizard's flare blitz

"the past is irrelevant"
only sometimes, my friend

 

[Paper Maribro]

I don't get why you or paper Maribo even brought it up. The past is irrelevant. Nothing is definite yet anyway.

Also, off topic:
Pac-Man's pellet stops charizard's flare blitz

Because it's frustrating when nobody listens to you and when I say a whole load of stuff that everyone ignores and then someone plays a good Sonic and then it turns out I was right. Sorry for bringing it up but it's kinda frustrating that we could have discussed ways we could handle the MU rather than labeling it at 55/45 to Sonic and leaving it at that.

Anyway, thanks to Pacman9 and BSP for the well wishes. I'm gonna use Pac as much as possible but I might switch out to Yoshi or Diddy (please don't hate me lol ) if I feel like it'll help me. I'll probably play game 1 Pac 90 percent of the time unless there's a Rosa around.

 

[Nu~]

Because it's frustrating when nobody listens to you and when I say a whole load of stuff that everyone ignores and then someone plays a good Sonic and then it turns out I was right. Sorry for bringing it up but it's kinda frustrating that we could have discussed ways we could handle the MU rather than labeling it at 55/45 to Sonic and leaving it at that.

Anyway, thanks to Pacman9 and BSP for the well wishes. I'm gonna use Pac as much as possible but I might switch out to Yoshi or Diddy (please don't hate me lol ) if I feel like it'll help me. I'll probably play game 1 Pac 90 percent of the time unless there's a Rosa around.

It seemed more like you were venting...and in your statement you pretty much made it seem like it was unwinnable. You didn't leave much room for "possible ways to improve it" when you said "Pac has nothing over sonic". It was kinda hard to agree with you when you pretty much said that the matchup couldn't be handled. Meanwhile one of my goals on this thread is to come up with possible ways to handle every matchup (which I do with every character that this board feels like complaining about. It's like a flavor of the week) and I end up getting written off as being in denial or not having fought good people.

It pisses a man off when your efforts to help the the Pac-Mains are blown away by negativity. And then I look at how harmonious the mega man thread is....

I don't care who's right or wrong, I just want Pac-Man to be viable and for everyone to stop calling him trash. But instead I come back to my own thread just to hear it all over again from the pac-mains themselves. THAT is why I don't always like coming to the Pac-Man thread. It's more complaints and negativity without solutions. Anger instead of possibilities.
And yet we have a character that is all about creative solutions to problems.

Anyway, I feel that the way to beat sonic lies within our customs (the customs that everyone wanted to ignore back when we were discussing the matchup)

 

[Paper Maribro]

It seemed more like you were venting...and in your statement you pretty much made it seem like it was unwinnable. You didn't leave much room for "possible ways to improve it" when you said "Pac has nothing over sonic". It was kinda hard to agree with you when you pretty much said that the matchup couldn't be handled. Meanwhile one of my goals on this thread is to come up with possible ways to handle every matchup (which I do with every character that this board feels like complaining about. It's like a flavor of the week) and I end up getting written off as being in denial or not having fought good people.

My bad then. But now we're on the same page it should be easier because we've all experienced the MU against good players and can discuss what went well, what didn't.

It pisses a man off when your efforts to help the the Pac-Mains are blown away by negativity. And then I look at how harmonious the mega man thread is....

Nobody in the Skype group or here on the boards can agree on anything. It is frustrating, I know because everyone wants their opinion to be heard. I guess it comes down to playstyle and skill level as much as anything. We're all gonna have different views of MUs because we're not all of equal skill level and we all have different playstyles. It becomes hard to attest the loss to the MU when the other variables could have had an effect on the outcome of the match more so than the MU itself.

Anyway, I feel that the way to beat sonic lies within our customs (the customs that everyone wanted to ignore back when we were discussing the matchup)

I agreed with you that the On Fire hydrant will do work in this MU. Lazy fruit could be handy too, dunno if Freaky would be or not. I have no idea which tramp to pick. I'd probably go with Power Pac Jump because the trampoline doesn't really do anything in this MU except get you punished (trust me, I know from experience). Meteor trampoline could also work for getting spike kills off stage. My scene seems pretty against customs atm so I can't really add anything because nobody plays with them on.

 

[Nu~]

My bad then. But now we're on the same page it should be easier because we've all experienced the MU against good players and can discuss what went well, what didn't.




Nobody in the Skype group or here on the boards can agree on anything. It is frustrating, I know because everyone wants their opinion to be heard. I guess it comes down to playstyle and skill level as much as anything. We're all gonna have different views of MUs because we're not all of equal skill level and we all have different playstyles. It becomes hard to attest the loss to the MU when the other variables could have had an effect on the outcome of the match more so than the MU itself.



I agreed with you that the On Fire hydrant will do work in this MU. Lazy fruit could be handy too, dunno if Freaky would be or not. I have no idea which tramp to pick. I'd probably go with Power Pac Jump because the trampoline doesn't really do anything in this MU except get you punished (trust me, I know from experience). Meteor trampoline could also work for getting spike kills off stage. My scene seems pretty against customs atm so I can't really add anything because nobody plays with them on.

Thanx for understanding man , and I agree with you. I know this will sound cheesy, but some more harmony and positive energy was all I wanted in this thread.

I feel that power pac jump or meteor trampoline can work because power pac jump is an awesome OoS, while meteor trampoline can be very effective for ledge traps and spiking opponents. Also, the meteor trampoline is harder to punish when used on an oppnent, because it doesn't lift them very high. You fly off to the side, while the opponent is stunned into having to land on the trampoline again. This gives us ample time to escape. Even against a sonic.

Lazy fruit REALLY helps because they act as walls that aren't meant to hit sonic out of spin dash, but rather clank with him so we can go in for a grab or punish. The orange in particular is beautiful because we can walk with it to give us a mini shield as we approach. The Galaxian is alone is enough to strongly consider this fruit seeing as how it stops all horizontal approaches, and traps opponents of they get hit. This leads into any follow up we want. You can even walk into the galaxian's center to use it as a better leaf shield lol.

So lazy fruit stops sonic from ramming in whenever he feels like it, and gives us a noticeable amount of control back, while meteor tranpoline lets us use our on stage trap again, and gives us a spike.
Or you can use power pac jump to give you a stronger shield buster, combo tool, and another way to kill sonic off the top. You do lose some stage control though.
On fire is excellent for reasons already discussed. It scares sonic away from trying to rush us down.

My set for sonic is 3132
A set that's all about pure stage control and anti-rush down. It has the potential to really help us. Who knows? If all goes as planned, we may have made the matchup a lot easier.
The meta knight mains turned their 30:70 sonic matchup to 40:60 just by tweaking their playstyle.

 

[Paper Maribro]

Well everyone I came equal 8th, should have been higher though. The first set I side b'd into the stage at 0% in the second game after winning the first. Put me into full salt mode and then got bodied. He played Mario, feels like a tough but not unwinnable MU. Would love some tips. Proceeded to tear through losers 2-0ing everyone. Played just Pac except for when I faced a rosa when I switched to Yoshi. I then came against a falcon, was beating him 18%-126% when an input went missing for some reason and I died. Took the second game despite killing myself at every opportunity possible. Played horridly in the last game and had no idea how to punish his constant dodge spamming. Disappointed overall but top 10 in my first tourney isn't too bad, just could have been better

EDIT: bracket and other stuff is here http://challonge.com/myriadesmash4_8_3_25

turns out I got 9th

But I won more games than those above me except for 2nd. So, can we count it as a moral second?

 

[BSP]

I probably come off as negative, but I'm just trying to be realistic when it comes to what we can and cannot do.

On Fire Hydrant helps against Sonic a bit, but not as much as I'd hoped. It scares him more than default for sure, but all he needs to do is shield a round of flame and then Bair/Fsmash . He can also be next to you pretty quickly, forcing you to deal with him and the fire. Again, it helps more than default for sure.

Lazy fruit could help, I had not considered that. However, that means we lose one of our few ranges KO options in default key, and we lose a quick, ranged punish tool. I can the slower moving fruit helping to contain Sonic's speed a bit. I'll have to try it, but losing the Key KO option worries me.

 

[Nu~]

I probably come off as negative, but I'm just trying to be realistic when it comes to what we can and cannot do.

On Fire Hydrant helps against Sonic a bit, but not as much as I'd hoped. It scares him more than default for sure, but all he needs to do is shield a round of flame and then Bair/Fsmash . He can also be next to you pretty quickly, forcing you to deal with him and the fire. Again, it helps more than default for sure.

Lazy fruit could help, I had not considered that. However, that means we lose one of our few ranges KO options in default key, and we lose a quick, ranged punish tool. I can the slower moving fruit helping to contain Sonic's speed a bit. I'll have to try it, but losing the Key KO option worries me.

It may be weird, but you kinda have to get used to kill setups with the bell and lazy galaxian. Lazy bell is a kill move (very weird) and lazy galaxian traps sonic so that we can follow up into any attack.

It may take some getting used to, but I think it's our best tool in the matchup. Oh, and try to use the hydrant as a decoy. Hide behind it, shield the incoming attack, and punish sonic's cooldown.

 

[Paper Maribro]

He played Mario, feels like a tough but not unwinnable MU. Would love some tips.

@ BSP you play Mario and @ Nu~ you've played BSP

Would love to know what to do, the guy I played against used Dair a lot and it was really hard to punish. Probably just screwed up my punishes though because I wasn't playing well but still, would love to know how to play the MU.

 

[BSP]

Oh, and try to use the hydrant as a decoy. Hide behind it, shield the incoming attack, and punish sonic's cooldown.

What cooldown?

@ BSP you play Mario and @ Nu~ you've played BSP

Would love to know what to do, the guy I played against used Dair a lot and it was really hard to punish. Probably just screwed up my punishes though because I wasn't playing well but still, would love to know how to play the MU.

If he's doing falling dairs, make sure you wait for the grounded hit to happen and then punish him with Nair OOS. Alternatively, you can kick him when he jumps with Uair or Fair. Also, I think that Pac-Man can actually Nair Mario for using Dair on him before the final hit confirms, although I'm not positive about it.

I suggest using trampolines to make Mario approach from the air so that you don't have to deal with his crazy ground frame data. Side B any fireballs he launches that he doesn't actively pursue. When he's coming from the air, your U air should be anything he does and Bair should trade with or beat whatever he does. If he jumps facing you, your fair can poke him and he can't do that much about it.

SH and FH Fair are pretty annoying for Mario to deal with too. As far as cape goes, don't throw fruit too predictably. Cape is pretty bad on shield and it does have punishable cooldown, so baiting it and punishing it works well too.

Be careful about dropping hydrants on his head because he can cape them back up at you.

I think I saved a replay of Zage vs. my Mario, so let me go see if I can find that. If you're having problems with people dodging, remember that Trampoline will pull people out of dodges.

Also, against Sonic, if we run Power Pac-Jump, our only somewhat reliable shield buster now becomes miss and get smashed for sure. With default and meteor, at least you've got some cover that will stop Sonic from being able to smash attack you. With PPJ, we're sitting ducks and Sonic's Usmash is pretty strong.

 

[Nu~]

What cooldown?



If he's doing falling dairs, make sure you wait for the grounded hit to happen and then punish him with Nair OOS. Alternatively, you can kick him when he jumps with Uair or Fair. Also, I think that Pac-Man can actually Nair Mario for using Dair on him before the final hit confirms, although I'm not positive about it.

I suggest using trampolines to make Mario approach from the air so that you don't have to deal with his crazy ground frame data. Side B any fireballs he launches that he doesn't actively pursue. When he's coming from the air, your U air should be anything he does and Bair should trade with or beat whatever he does. If he jumps facing you, your fair can poke him and he can't do that much about it.

SH and FH Fair are pretty annoying for Mario to deal with too. As far as cape goes, don't throw fruit too predictably. Cape is pretty bad on shield and it does have punishable cooldown, so baiting it and punishing it works well too.

Be careful about dropping hydrants on his head because he can cape them back up at you.

I think I saved a replay of Zage vs. my Mario, so let me go see if I can find that. If you're having problems with people dodging, remember that Trampoline will pull people out of dodges.

Also, against Sonic, if we run Power Pac-Jump, our only somewhat reliable shield buster now becomes miss and get smashed for sure. With default and meteor, at least you've got some cover that will stop Sonic from being able to smash attack you. With PPJ, we're sitting ducks and Sonic's Usmash is pretty strong.

I know his Bair has cooldown, but maybe not his stupid fsmash.
I agree with running meteor trampoline against sonic. Power pac jump isn't the smartest option with his punish tools. Meteor trampoline gives sonic a very small bounce and makes his approach more awkward. He's forced to spin shot over it, which gives you time to up air him (if you are fast enough...)

 

[fromundaman]

I can't consider myself an expert on the Mario matchup, but I did get a chance to play a dozen games against Xeroxen last week, and while he bodied me, most games were close and by the end I was starting to take a few games.

What I found is that Mario is a character you want to be aggressive against, or rather counter his aggression with aggression and if he starts to play defensively, use that time to set yourself up. Our aerials generally can beat his, but his are incredibly safe and his air mobility means that smart shield pressure will be hard to punish with UpB or Nair OoS.
Attempting to purely zone him will not work at all, and dropping hydrants on him is super dangerous.
Our Ftilt can also beat out many of his approach options, but that is easier said than done.

I can't say for all Marios, but Xeroxen did do a lot of empty hop mindgames. If you see them start to do this, throw out moves to prevent them from completely dictating the flow of the match. Even if you guess wrong and what looked like an empty hop was actually an aerial, you are showing the Mario player that there is a risk to empty hop mindgames.

Fireballs can be a pain, but SideB-ing them gives a heal (Though this is not safe at all distances) and some fruits can punish it (The key is a good example of this, but bell can too sometimes as can apple and oranges sometimes).

 

[Jay-kun]

I can't consider myself an expert on the Mario matchup, but I did get a chance to play a dozen games against Xeroxen last week, and while he bodied me, most games were close and by the end I was starting to take a few games.

What I found is that Mario is a character you want to be aggressive against, or rather counter his aggression with aggression and if he starts to play defensively, use that time to set yourself up. Our aerials generally can beat his, but his are incredibly safe and his air mobility means that smart shield pressure will be hard to punish with UpB or Nair OoS.
Attempting to purely zone him will not work at all, and dropping hydrants on him is super dangerous.
Our Ftilt can also beat out many of his approach options, but that is easier said than done.

I can't say for all Marios, but Xeroxen did do a lot of empty hop mindgames. If you see them start to do this, throw out moves to prevent them from completely dictating the flow of the match. Even if you guess wrong and what looked like an empty hop was actually an aerial, you are showing the Mario player that there is a risk to empty hop mindgames.

Fireballs can be a pain, but SideB-ing them gives a heal (Though this is not safe at all distances) and some fruits can punish it (The key is a good example of this, but bell can too sometimes as can apple and oranges sometimes).

WHOA WHOA WHOA, all I here is aggressive again and again... what about a slow playstyle??

 

[fromundaman]

WHOA WHOA WHOA, all I here is aggressive again and again... what about a slow playstyle??

I think it's very matchup dependent.

Against someone like say, Shiek or Pika, then yes, I think defensive play is the right option.

Against a character like Mario, I do not. Maybe I'm wrong, but my default actually tends to be a defensive, trap based playstyle and against Xeroxen's Mario that playstyle was getting blown up.


I don't like labeling anything as a "slow" playstyle though. You should make the most of every moment of the match; both defensive and aggressive play should be learned and used for tactical purposes.

 

[Jay-kun]

I think it's very matchup dependent.

Against someone like say, Shiek or Pika, then yes, I think defensive play is the right option.

Against a character like Mario, I do not. Maybe I'm wrong, but my default actually tends to be a defensive, trap based playstyle and against Xeroxen's Mario that playstyle was getting blown up.


I don't like labeling anything as a "slow" playstyle though. You should make the most of every moment of the match; both defensive and aggressive play should be learned and used for tactical purposes.

Hmmm maybe Sonic/ hard MU's is more of a mental battle...

 

[Nu~]

Hmmm maybe Sonic/ hard MU's is more of a mental battle...

Shhh...
A lot of the Pac-Community isn't ready for this kind of knowledge yet

 

[fromundaman]

Hmmm maybe Sonic/ hard MU's is more of a mental battle...

I don't have the sonic experience to comment, but I do think my issues with Zss stem more from my personal inability to punish her downB than an actual character flaw.

Rosalina on the other hand...

 

[Jay-kun]

I don't have the sonic experience to comment, but I do think my issues with Zss stem more from my personal inability to punish her downB than an actual character flaw.

Rosalina on the other hand...

Dude, Rosalina is a beast.. sometimes I play a Rosalina who is better off WITHOUT her Luma :/
AND the aerials... it just gets stupid

 

[Firedemon0]

stem more from my personal inability to punish her downB than an actual character flaw

Toss orange before she lands.

 

[Nu~]

Toss orange before she lands.

Or just charge your fruit if she tries to land on you. The fruit will block the attack (unless that ZSS player has pinpoint aim)

 

[Paper Maribro]

Or just charge your fruit if she tries to land on you. The fruit will block the attack (unless that ZSS player has pinpoint aim)

I wouldn't rely on gimmicks. It's always safer to go for the power shield and try and punish OoS or allow it to reset to neutral.

 

[Nu~]

I wouldn't rely on gimmicks. It's always safer to go for the power shield and try and punish OoS or allow it to reset to neutral.

It's still a nice mixup and can get us a fruit charge if we react fast enough. Nothing to rely on, but at least we won't have to suffer the laggy shield drop.

 

[fromundaman]

I wouldn't rely on gimmicks. It's always safer to go for the power shield and try and punish OoS or allow it to reset to neutral.

Out of curiosity, what do I get off of a powershield? Until my training partner gets back from military training, I can't test this.

 

[Firedemon0]

Best way to explain it would be to compare it to a parry. You spend lowest amount of time in shield that way.

 

[Jay-kun]

Out of curiosity, what do I get off of a powershield? Until my training partner gets back from military training, I can't test this.

Bless the ppl protecting our country.. Shulk can use vision (down-b counter move thingy) off a power shield VERY USEFUL. Maybe we can up-b.. lol that is lame :/

 

[Paper Maribro]

Out of curiosity, what do I get off of a powershield? Until my training partner gets back from military training, I can't test this.

I was looking through the frame data thread the other day and I saw that up b has a frame 1 hitbox.

I'd recommend using that.

 

[Jay-kun]

I was looking through the frame data thread the other day and I saw that up b has a frame 1 hitbox.

I'd recommend using that.

I literally get no respect. Pacman#9 you liked the post above this yet my post said the same thing. No excuses they were 4 hours apart.. maaaybe u missed mine but that is unlikely because of past replies... btw i didn't bother tagging u because I figured u wouldn't notice :/

 

[Jay-kun]

that's not.. how it.. works...

 

[Nu~]

I literally get no respect. Pacman#9 you liked the post above this yet my post said the same thing. No excuses they were 4 hours apart and it says mine was never edited.. maaaybe u missed mine but that is unlikely because of past replies... btw i didn't bother tagging u because I figured u wouldn't notice :/

Lol calm down man. I didn't agree with just using up B before, but after Maribo confirmed that it was a frame one attack, I was on board. Even though I still don't think it is the absolute best option to take. Especially if you miss time it and whiff...
I'm going to make sure to like all of your posts from now on, prepare your inbox :3

 

[Jay-kun]

...
..
..
......
. . . . . . ......
Anyway!
True i was like whoa when I saw it was 1 frame, but really?? Most of the times our opponent will recover and punish/ we whiff... power PAC jump maybe?

 

[Nu~]

If you have time to put your shield up, then I'm pretty sure that you have time to use utilt.
But if she does capture you in shield, just jump out of shield and use up air. there is no shield drop lag that way.
ZSS has bad landing options outside of Down B.

 

[fromundaman]

I was looking through the frame data thread the other day and I saw that up b has a frame 1 hitbox.

I'd recommend using that.

I know it's a frame 1 move (UpB OoS is what makes the shiek MU not suck) but this doesn't work for her DownB. She jumps away as soon as she hits shield and our UpB doesn't have a large hitbox. It also can't come out right away due to blockstun.

If you have time to put your shield up, then I'm pretty sure that you have time to use utilt.
But if she does capture you in shield, just jump out of shield and use up air. there is no shield drop lag that way.
ZSS has bad landing options outside of Down B.

I have tried this and her downB has too much blockstun for this to work. By the time she jumps off of you, you cannot punish with UpB or any aerial if you shielded normally. I have not tested powershielding though so maybe after a PS you can Uair.

I also need to see if a jump>fruit can catch her before she lands after a normal shield.

I literally get no respect. Pacman#9 you liked the post above this yet my post said the same thing. No excuses they were 4 hours apart.. maaaybe u missed mine but that is unlikely because of past replies... btw i didn't bother tagging u because I figured u wouldn't notice :/

Don't post for likes/attention. Post to advance the metagame so that in turn other people can use that knowledge to find something you missed and in turn help you level up.
Caring about what other people think of you detracts from the goal of these forums, which, at least in my eyes, is to step your game up.

 

[busken]

Sorry for not contributing. Right now, I'm still learning Pac-Man and to be honest I'm struggling. Learning his neutral game is the toughest part though since his zoning and approach options are so complex. In terms of developing a play style, I haven't. I just play the MU and learn the go to options against the respective characters. Of course, since he thrives off zoning options general play usually abuses these defensive options.

 

[Paper Maribro]

I know it's a frame 1 move (UpB OoS is what makes the shiek MU not suck) but this doesn't work for her DownB. She jumps away as soon as she hits shield and our UpB doesn't have a large hitbox. It also can't come out right away due to blockstun.

There's no shieldstun on PS so you should be fine.

Anyway, off topic (ish) but who likes my sig?

 

[WeirdChillFever]

There's no shieldstun on PS so you should be fine.

Anyway, off topic (ish) but who likes my sig?

Wonderful.

I have a new sig too. :3

 

[fromundaman]

There's no shieldstun on PS so you should be fine.

Anyway, off topic (ish) but who likes my sig?

Ah my bad, thought you meant on a normal shield for some reason.




On a completely unrelated note, any ideas on what songs would go well with a Pacman combo video? I might go with either the Pacman theme or club remix, but it feels a bit unoriginal.