Our Second Banana: Good Secondaries for Diddy | Week 1: Wario, Falco, DDD

[Ingulit]

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-=- Two Bananas Are Always -=-
-=-=-=-=- Better Than One -=-=-=-=-
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The Diddy Secondary Guide
V. 1.5
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Let's face it; unless you're an absolute pro with Diddy (and even sometimes then), it's hard to say that Diddy has no "unwinnable" match-ups. This is where choosing a good secondary comes in: they'll help you cover your bad match-ups and stages for times when your Diddy isn't up to par. This thread aims to become a discussion resulting in finding out who is a good secondary for Diddy and why, in terms of counterpicking characters and stages. Each week, three new characters will be discussed, and at the end of the week I'll post summaries and start on the next set. I'm skipping Meta Knight and Snake (at least until the very end) because they'll cover just about everything themselves anyway, and are always just a good pocket secondary to have. I'd rather focus on the characters that other people might not think of at first. I will be going down the Tier List 3.0 for my weekly selections.

The summaries are split into characters covered and stages covered, and then details about these lists. Things will have different degrees of "covering" something: if the entry is green, then that means it used to be unfavorable for Diddy but is now favorable for the secondary. If the entry is yellow, then that means it still might be disadvantageous for the new character, but it is still a better match-up than what Diddy has to go through (this also applies if the secondary simply has more of an advantage). Such a format will be followed for both characters and stages.

In the list of secondaries, if the secondary's name is red, then the discussion for that secondary is ongoing. If the name is yellow, then the discussion is closed and the summary is being written. If it is green, then the discussion is closed and the summary is written.

Any and all format suggestions are wanted and welcome.

NOTE: In these summaries, it is assumed you are proficient enough with the character to actually use him/her as a legitimate secondary. This should also be assumed in discussion; how hard it is to become good with a character is irrelevant.

NOTE: SERIOUSLY, DON'T BRING UP META KNIGHT. We all get that he's amazing and is the universal secondary, but if that's all anyone said then picking other secondaries would be pointless. For the sake of a healthy conversation, just DON'T BRING HIM UP. Please.

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-= UPDATES =-
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8/20/09
- Thread started at V. 1.0
- Discussion Started: Wario
- Discussion Started: Falco
- Discussion Started: DDD

8/21/09
- Added list of Current Holes
- Thread moved to V. 1.5

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-= CURRENT HOLES =-
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CHARACTERS

Match-ups that are "good" for Diddy (60/40+)
Mr. Game & Watch, Zero Suit Samus, Bowser, Zelda, Ivysaur, Charizard, Ike, Ness, Samus, Captain Falcon, Link, Ganondorf

Match-ups that are "even" for Diddy (55/45 - 45/55)
Meta Knight, Snake, King DeDeDe, Pikachu, Captain Olimar, Ice Climbers, R.O.B., Lucario, Toon Link, Donkey Kong, Peach, Fox, Wolf, Sonic, Sheik, Pokemon Trainer, Squirtle, Lucas, Mario, Yoshi, Jigglypuff,

Match-ups that are "bad" for Diddy (40/60-)
Wario, Falco, Marth, Kirby, Pit, Luigi


STAGES
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Stages that are considered "bad" for Diddy
Brinstar, Rainbow Cruise, Norfair

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-= THE SECONDARIES =-
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Wario


Characters he covers:
Luigi, Captain Olimar
*summary*

Stages he covers:
Rainbow Cruise, Brinstar, Norfair
*summary*

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Falco


Characters he covers:
Meta Knight
*summary*

Stages he covers:
*list*
*summary*

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King DeDeDe


Characters he covers:
Marth, Snake, Peach
*summary*

Stages he covers:
*list*
*summary*

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[Boofy!]

Wario is a great pocket character when on a stage Diddy can't use his bananas to full potential like Brinstar, Norfair, RC (although some Diddy players swear by it)

Especially Brinstar tho.. that stage is lameeee

EDIT: nice layout btw.. simple, effective and (soon to be) informative. I wouldn't be surprised if similar threads are made for other characters

 

[Count]

Noooo have character pride and pick diddy!

If I had to choose a secondary I'd probably choose d3, good for snake and probably does ok vs peach.

Wario is difficult to pick up as a secondary, his playstyle is soooo different from diddy's.

 

[illinialex24]

Metaknight is the ultimate secondary. Just go high tier.

 

[TreK]

Wario's an excellent cp against Luigi ; and he's brokenly good on the metroid stages that are known to be the stages you cp a diddy to. No idea about the other good stuff, but it's a good secondary imo. Hard to learn tho~~

Falco's not a great secondary ; his bad stages are the same as ours because he's just as much projectile oriented as Diddy. His matchups don't really help either, he may do a little better against mk and that's about it ; it's not worth the effort imo.

DDD I have no idea.

Btw, I second Yoshi. I faiiiil .___.

 

[Ingulit]

*summarizing what has been said so far*

Wario is a great pocket character when on a stage Diddy can't use his bananas to full potential like Brinstar, Norfair, RC (although some Diddy players swear by it)

Especially Brinstar tho.. that stage is lameeee

Wairo is good on Brinstar, Norfair, and Rainbow Cruise.

If I had to choose a secondary I'd probably choose d3, good for snake and probably does ok vs peach.

DeDeDe is good against Snake and does better against Peach.

Wario's an excellent cp against Luigi ; and he's brokenly good on the metroid stages that are known to be the stages you cp a diddy to. No idea about the other good stuff, but it's a good secondary imo. Hard to learn tho~~

Falco's not a great secondary ; his bad stages are the same as ours because he's just as much projectile oriented as Diddy. His matchups don't really help either, he may do a little better against mk and that's about it ; it's not worth the effort imo.

Wario is good against Luigi and is good on Norfair, Brinstar, and other Diddy stage CPs.

Falco does a little better against Meta Knight, but not much. All-in-all not a great secondary.

Wario is difficult to pick up as a secondary, his playstyle is soooo different from diddy's.

Metaknight is the ultimate secondary. Just go high tier.

I'm really trying to avoid these points, guys... That's why I didn't pick Snake or Meta Knight for discussion first, and let's assume you have the skill to use the character while discussing viability for being as secondary. I don't want how hard/easy a character is to learn in this conversation.

I added a "Current Holes" section that overviews what I *think* are Diddy's current shortcomings in his game (for reference). For the characters, I looked at the match-up chart and mostly went by what the other characters think the match-up is with us. I've noticed that, for the Diddy boards anyway, that tends to be more accurate. Correct me if I'm wrong anywhere or if I left out a stage on the "Bad stages for Diddy" list. (In particular, apparently the Peach boards think the match-up is fairly even, or at least the last time they held the match-up discussion they did)

 

[DUB]

Wario tends to do well against Olimar, a matchup that Some Diddy mains would rather not play.

You could put Marth under DDD's characters he covers.

 

[Coyn3Masta]

Put peach and D3 under falco. And he covers japes XD?

 

[Player-1]

I disagree with more than half the things said here:
Match-ups that are "even" for Diddy (55/45 - 45/55)
Meta Knight, Snake, King DeDeDe, Pikachu, Captain Olimar, Ice Climbers, R.O.B., Lucario, Toon Link, Donkey Kong, Peach, Fox, Wolf, Sonic, Sheik, Pokemon Trainer, Squirtle, Lucas, Mario, Yoshi, Jigglypuff,

Match-ups that are "bad" for Diddy (40/60-)
Wario, Falco, Marth, Kirby, Pit, Luigi


STAGES

Stages that are considered "bad" for Diddy
Brinstar, Rainbow Cruise, Norfair

 

[Ingulit]

>.>

I just went by the Match-Up chart and what I thought was the general consensus of Diddy's bad stages. If you disagree, I'd love to hear it so I can improve it. That was really just a starting point.

 

[Player-1]

>.>

I just went by the Match-Up chart and what I thought was the general consensus of Diddy's bad stages. If you disagree, I'd love to hear it so I can improve it. That was really just a starting point.

Well, we're not even close to finishing the match-up chart...

and Diddy does well on all 3 of those stages, it just depends on what char you're playing against.

 

[SilverDoc~]

Good secondary for diddy is Dedede, trust me, Diddy/Dedede mains cover every matchup I can think of, a good diddy should only have trouble with falco if dedede is his alt.

Will contribute more later.

 

[Ingulit]

Well, we're not even close to finishing the match-up chart...

and Diddy does well on all 3 of those stages, it just depends on what char you're playing against.

Ah, I didn't make that clear, did I? Let's assume you just beat your opponent, and he just picks a stage. You know he's going to change characters, but you don't know to who; you only know which stage they picked. Some stages are overall more unfriendly for Diddy than others, which is why I put those stages on there.

I mean, you are right, it depends on who you're playing. But let's say you didn't know/it could be any character. Then what?

 

[Player-1]

Ah, I didn't make that clear, did I? Let's assume you just beat your opponent, and he just picks a stage. You know he's going to change characters, but you don't know to who; you only know which stage they picked. Some stages are overall more unfriendly for Diddy than others, which is why I put those stages on there.

I mean, you are right, it depends on who you're playing. But let's say you didn't know/it could be any character. Then what?

but that logic can be applied to any stage...

 

[Palpi]

Wario diddy is a cool combo of characters imo.

 

[Ingulit]

but that logic can be applied to any stage...

I'll just take the whole section off, then. :\

Also, embellish your posts and don't just say "Diddy + xxxxx = top tier lulz!", give reasons PLEASE.

 

[tocador]

I use DK as a secondary.

He covers peach, marth, pit and luigi pretty well.

Sure wario can still be a problem, but then i just CP wario(dittoes mindgames) or school the **** out of him with diddy(it isnt really that hard IMO).

I really think the Double-monkey as a main/second can really work well. Sure some stages still mess you up, but mostly you can still manage it off.

 

[Coyn3Masta]

I think marth is the best secondary, covers the most imo <_>

 

[Count]

Player 1, explain to me how you think snake is even. I'm just curious, I consider that harder than some of the ones you thought were bad.

 

[Player-1]

Player 1, explain to me how you think snake is even. I'm just curious, I consider that harder than some of the ones you thought were bad.

I don't think I ever said Snake was even...

 

[Count]

I disagree with more than half the things said here:
Match-ups that are "even" for Diddy (55/45 - 45/55)
Meta Knight, Snake, King DeDeDe, Pikachu, Captain Olimar, Ice Climbers, R.O.B., Lucario, Toon Link, Donkey Kong, Peach, Fox, Wolf, Sonic, Sheik, Pokemon Trainer, Squirtle, Lucas, Mario, Yoshi, Jigglypuff,

Match-ups that are "bad" for Diddy (40/60-)
Wario, Falco, Marth, Kirby, Pit, Luigi


STAGES

Stages that are considered "bad" for Diddy
Brinstar, Rainbow Cruise, Norfair

Ten character limit.

 

[Player-1]

Ten character limit.

I didn't make that list...ingulit did...I said I DISAGREED with it...

 

[chimpact]

Wario is hard to pick up, but you will have so much fun using bite, waft, and his bike combos. He plays extremely well on diddy's bad stages and beats snake, falco, himself, but has problems with peach and marth still.

 

[tocador]

Wario is hard to pick up, but you will have so much fun using bite, waft, and his bike combos. He plays extremely well on diddy's bad stages and beats snake, falco, himself, but has problems with peach and marth still.

You can always have marth as a third to counter those, or even better, DK, that goes like, 60-40 against both :D.

Yeah, what im seeing now is diddy should have at least 2 secondaries if you really dont want to play a uphill.

Wario and DK sounds really good to me tho.

Or maybe Wario-falco.

 

[Count]

I didn't make that list...ingulit did...I said I DISAGREED with it...

Oh my bad. I'm dumb

I disagree with a lot of it, too.

Anybody who thinks snake is remotely even is silllllllly

edit: straight diddy or you have no pride!

 

[tocador]

Oh my bad. I'm dumb

I disagree with a lot of it, too.

Anybody who thinks snake is remotely even is silllllllly

edit: straight diddy or you have no pride!

Being a homo diddy is bad ><?