OU Balancing: Finding a standard!

[mood4food77]

normal should hit something for SE damage...but the question is what

 

[Terywj [태리]]

normal should hit something for SE damage...but the question is what

Normal is normal, and therefore shouldn't really have any supereffective hits.

-Terywj

 

[kirbyraeg]

normal should hit ITSELF for super effective damage. xD

 

[Zook]

normal should hit everything for nuetral

Fixed that for you, man.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Fixed that for you, man.

Everything with maybe the exception of Ghost-types.

-Terywj

 

[ss118]

No one can read the thread title, apparently.

I'm working on this still, btw, I'll post all of my suggestions at once so that people can bring up issues with it all at once.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Like I said a long while back, just make Bullet Seed the Grass-type priority.

-Terywj

 

[Metal~Mario]

^Acc. to a recent

Spoiler

SLEEPY

TIME poll, 8/10 Snorlax agree with this statement.

Spoiler

The other two were sleeping and used Sleep Talk to concur with Tery.

Rerequesting special fire priority.

Random Q: Why isn't there a dark move of at least 100 BP yet? Can we make one?

 

[ss118]

I'm trying to avoid adding anything new: just trying to balance everything by changing it all around.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

So what is the current type we're trying to work on again?

 

[ss118]

We need to finish up Grass.

I had ~2 pages done where I had about 3 other types done, but when my laptop crashed I lost it all. ='[

 

[CRASHiC]

Do we really need more priority moves? If were adding more priority moves, then we might need to nerf them across the board. Stall has a hard enough time when they can't do anything against rampant priority sweepers. Either we take away priority from a lot of pokemon who otherwise don't need it, or we find a way to cut their effectiveness, such as making their priority invalid when under the effect of Paralysis or simply by lowering their bass power.

Moves that could be changed into priority moves should we feel the dire need:
Electric: Shock Wave
Fire: Blast Burn,
Flying: Aerial Ace
Grass: Bullet Seed
Ground: Bone Rush
Poison: Poision Sting
Psychich: No idea hahaha
Rock: Rollout

Much like Sucker Punch, would could give these attacks additional effects to go with their typing, should we see fit.

 

[Pink Reaper]

You spelled psychic wrong lol. Psycho Boost?

 

[ss118]

Psycho Boost is cool as-is: it just needs more users.

Does anyone have a problem with Vine Whip being a Fake-Out replica? Or should we not seeing as nothing is immune to it?

Edit:

Do we really need more priority moves? If were adding more priority moves, then we might need to nerf them across the board. Stall has a hard enough time when they can't do anything against rampant priority sweepers. Either we take away priority from a lot of pokemon who otherwise don't need it, or we find a way to cut their effectiveness, such as making their priority invalid when under the effect of Paralysis or simply by lowering their bass power.

Priority users aren't the problem with stall teams: it's just that all the best ones are insanely ****ing powerful, so they can break through them with hard STAB moves by beating anything incredibly faster(and more frail) with Priority moves. A good example is Lucario, of course.

And the priority problem WILL be fixed: Salamence/ Garchomp don't need any more boosts, so they'll lose anything that would make them change how they are played, such as Dragon Rush or Dragon Rage. The new priority moves will be given to pokemon who COULD use a boost, such as Dragonite or Flygon.

 

[Riddle]

Yeah I have no problem with that. Make it pretty exclusive though.

 

[ss118]

Only four things have it right now.

Edit: 5, and they are all UU/ NU

Edit2: Finished Grass. Any objections?

 

[E123-omega]

Worry seed should either take away 1/16th of the targets health every turn or also induce confusion.

 

[PowerBomb]

I like Worry Seed's effect. The opponent is so worried that they let their guard down, thus the defense drop, and are so preoccupied with their... uh, worrying thoughts, that they're confused at the matter at hand.

Lol @ Absorb, Mega Drain, and Giga Drain's trade-off HP replenish abilities

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I still don't really like how we're trying to make EVERY move viable for competitive battling, but whatever,

There should be moves left alone, though.

 

[E123-omega]

I still don't really like how we're trying to make EVERY move viable for competitive battling, but whatever,

There should be moves left alone, though.

*changes tackle to 100 acc and 800 base power*

 

[PowerBomb]

Absorb and Mega Drain should've been left alone.

Wouldn't changing every single move to make it all competitive worthy be an extremely annoying thing to program?

 

[ss118]

If it is then it's up to the programmer to decide if it is worth his/ her time

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Regardless, which type is next to modify?

 

[mood4food77]

poison!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[PowerBomb]

Poison needs to be changed so that people will want to use it.

 

[ss118]

I was thinking: what if regular Poison halved sp. attack, like how burn lowers attack?

Gives you a reason to use regular poison, for sure.

 

[PowerBomb]

I was thinking: what if regular Poison halved sp. attack, like how burn lowers attack?

Gives you a reason to use regular poison, for sure.

That would be interesting. I don't think it should be used though, since special attackers have to deal with Blissey.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

That effect wouldn't be all that special, since Steel-types would still laugh in their face. Blissey doesn't mind either Poison through Natural Cure anyways.

 

[ss118]

Better than it being completely useless, though.

Also, does everyone feel the same way about making the more "useless" moves not useless(example: Absorb/ Mega Drain/ Giga Drain)? Because if so this is a community project and therefore I should stick with the community and not be an ignoramus. xD

 

[kirbyraeg]

I'd say there is no need to balance every move, but that even if we decided that there was such a need that balancing the pokémon themselves will be the first step towards balancing the metagame. Move balancing is a nice extra that is related to move distribution, but imo making sure that the metagame is balanced with existing moves is more important. Making useless moves not useless also destroys their in-game power continuity, but it isn't really necessary when you consider that the problem with most pokémon isn't that crappy moves suck, but that they don't get good moves, and that their stats are just too low to work properly.

Basically, yes it would be fun to balance every single move in the game so it had a purpose, but frankly the task of balancing the metagame is so huge that any extra work for ourselves will just further stall the project and make it so we can't get any meaningful work done.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I'd say there is no need to balance every move, but that even if we decided that there was such a need that balancing the pokémon themselves will be the first step towards balancing the metagame. Move balancing is a nice extra that is related to move distribution, but imo making sure that the metagame is balanced with existing moves is more important. Making useless moves not useless also destroys their in-game power continuity, but it isn't really necessary when you consider that the problem with most pokémon isn't that crappy moves suck, but that they don't get good moves, and that their stats are just too low to work properly.

Basically, yes it would be fun to balance every single move in the game so it had a purpose, but frankly the task of balancing the metagame is so huge that any extra work for ourselves will just further stall the project and make it so we can't get any meaningful work done.

As you would guess, I agree with this statement.

 

[Metal~Mario]

I'd say there is no need to balance every move, but that even if we decided that there was such a need that balancing the pokémon themselves will be the first step towards balancing the metagame. Move balancing is a nice extra that is related to move distribution, but imo making sure that the metagame is balanced with existing moves is more important. Making useless moves not useless also destroys their in-game power continuity, but it isn't really necessary when you consider that the problem with most pokémon isn't that crappy moves suck, but that they don't get good moves, and that their stats are just too low to work properly.

Basically, yes it would be fun to balance every single move in the game so it had a purpose, but frankly the task of balancing the metagame is so huge that any extra work for ourselves will just further stall the project and make it so we can't get any meaningful work done.

Exactly.

Absorb and Mega Drain are inferior to Giga Drain. We shouldn't change that.

Even if we did, when we got to the Physical Normal moves (tackle, scratch, slash, headbutt, slam, take down, etc) it would become really tedious.

 

[ss118]

I fold this project.

Not because I can't do my move changes, but because this takes too much time to dedicate to and I'm finding myself limited as-is.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I fold this project.

Not because I can't do my move changes, but because this takes too much time to dedicate to and I'm finding myself limited as-is.

This is unfortunate. I may take the time to resurrect this under a new thread, but we'll see.

 

[Metal~Mario]

^You've got enough on your plate, Tery.

Allow me. I have all the free time in the world.

 

[ss118]

Please read the OP. I have freed up time and the new server is up so better time than ever!

 

[UltiMario]

First of all, I've never been a fan of these changes, but I'll at least tell you what's possible.

At this point, I CANNOT do the following with what I have learned to edit:

Roar of Time
Twister
Frenzy Plant
Absorb (unless there's another move that recovers 100% of drained HP I'm unaware of)
Mega Drain
Type Chart Editing

I know where the type chart edits can be done, but not how to do them... I think..

 

[Terywj [태리]]

The thing with the changes is we currently have the NU to OU stuff with SmashCAP. Testing all this at once...?

Also, I'm not sure if we really want to have these changes...

 

[Wave⁂]

Yeah, I was going to post that, but then I had to go do an errand.

I support this if we can somehow get a tier in the server specifically for it (doubt it) or if we get another server (also doubtful).

 

[Terywj [태리]]

If either of the two options are unobtainable, then I'd rather we just drop this idea of implementing the changes, sorry.