ORLANDO SMASH @ KiNETiX July 14th, 2007

[vericz]

d4mn its gonna be epic to watch sheer madness vs anther in a pika ditto

on the other hand, sry guys but xYz and I will take doubles, tru

If uuaa doesn't go I'll be teaming with anther if he wants

Edit- CONFIRMED. We will be going and picking up Anther along the way.

I'll be taking MMs so far I got

xYz- falcon vs falco $2

Anyone else?

 

[h1roshi]

me and vericz would have took it if i went...peace

-hiroshi

 

[Anther]

Course I'm fine with throwing in for gas and let's do the team thing Vericz! Can't wait till tomorrow morning.

btw Pika dittos with all that want'em, just know I much prefer all his other bad matchups though =p.

 

[vericz]

Wow, we are still up at Al's house.. . i got no sleep

 

[OTRU...]

we just got back from doubles, sux that we couldnt stay for singles, ohh well... we'll get to play some more next week at my biweekly and gigs.

Good matches to everyone, although i didnt play any singles, not even friendlies :s

 

[xYz]

Tourney was alright, they should have told us there were only two tv's available.

Doubles Results
1.Reno and Fzero <--? (dunno if thats his name)
2.xYz and OTRU...
3.TedBoosley and his Bro

I'm sure KiNetix will post the full results, good **** to everyone. late.

 

[TedBoosley]

SINGLES RESULTS - Anther is too good with Pikachu.

Even though the rules were pretty gay (best 1/1 until top 8) and the brackets were COMPLETELY WRONG AND HORRIBLE IN EVERY WAY (I'm talking really ****ed up), here they are.

Also, my crew is awesome as hell, and would have won the tournament first, second, and third if Anther weren't there. (**** YOU ANTHER)

Results:

1. Anther
2. Bergoth (Holy **** he was on a ****-spree)
3. Juib
4. Pure Korea

P.S. Anther is possibly the best quick-attack user on Earth.

Oh, and it was Reno and CJ who got first. F-Zero is the other Falcon player that drives with WATO.

 

[OTRU...]

whos bergoth? was he there for doubles?

 

[vericz]

whos bergoth? was he there for doubles?

I should be in that place, seriously, Bergoth if the tourney was 2/3 I'm pretty sure I would have passed that round, I have NO IDEA what happened and why I lost both stocks.

Anther your new name is ANTHRAX!!! Good job, too bad it wasn't you and me for finals.

Doubles was good, single SUCKED Brackets were sooo bad, 1/1 is pretty ********, top 8 had no losers bracket???????? what is that!!!!!!?!?!?!??!?!!????!?!?!??!?!1 Tvs were bad and they wouldn't let us use the one we brought till the end. Everyone would have agreed to change the rules but since it was set in the 1st post they didn't chnge it. No where in that post did it say 1/1 before top 8, it wasn't specified at all and was VERY misleading.

Makes me not want to go in the future but I might since it is so close. Hopefully the staff will take into consideration what we are all *****ing about and change the way they run it.

 

[SheerMadness]

Sounds like singles were ********. Good thing we didn't stay.

 

[xYz]

Sounds like singles were ********. Good thing we didn't stay.

yeah you can say that again.

 

[purekorea]

whos bergoth? was he there for doubles?

bergoth was the peach player that teamed with me on the tv in the back with you and xyz

 

[Pasqual]

Well, that was interesting. Shoutouts to

Anther: didn't get to play you but winning with the Chu? GG, sir.
Pure Korea: Good showing man, make sure to get ahold of us next time you're smashing at Angel's or whatever.
Joey and Zoro: Good match, wish we could've gone 2/3 at least but oh well. See you at Gigs?
Boosley: Cool guy, but no more trolling the youtube's, eh? Roy $1 MM ditto at Gigs, fo' sho'.


Was Bergoth playing the Daisy Peach? Played a Ganon in loser's bracket?

 

[purekorea]

Well, that was interesting. Shoutouts to

Anther: didn't get to play you but winning with the Chu? GG, sir.
Pure Korea: Good showing man, make sure to get ahold of us next time you're smashing at Angel's or whatever.
Joey and Zoro: Good match, wish we could've gone 2/3 at least but oh well. See you at Gigs?
Boosley: Cool guy, but no more trolling the youtube's, eh? Roy $1 MM ditto at Gigs, fo' sho'.


Was Bergoth playing the Daisy Peach? Played a Ganon in loser's bracket?

Heh, me and angel really don't plan those.. it's just a "hey come over" thing.

Yea bergoth was playing daisy.

This tournament was so messed up with brackets and all but good stuff from the people there.

 

[vericz]

Anthrax, previosly known as Anther, is smashing with WATO right now. This guys pika is too good.

edit- might record some matches

 

[Zoro]

Well, that was interesting. Shoutouts to

Anther: didn't get to play you but winning with the Chu? GG, sir.
Pure Korea: Good showing man, make sure to get ahold of us next time you're smashing at Angel's or whatever.
Joey and Zoro: Good match, wish we could've gone 2/3 at least but oh well. See you at Gigs?
Boosley: Cool guy, but no more trolling the youtube's, eh? Roy $1 MM ditto at Gigs, fo' sho'.


Was Bergoth playing the Daisy Peach? Played a Ganon in loser's bracket?

Man that match was complete bull****
the tv was so laggy it was like playing in slow motion. It was luck that i won. I couldnt play on that thing.
I bet you feel robbed by sum nub
REMATCH SON on a good tv

 

[Zoro]

Oh yeah and ANTHRAX PWNZZ

 

[Anther]

Man I hate myself for losing this post twice. I'll post my shoutouts later today cause frustration is killing me XD.

Florida smash was too fun and the guys of WATO, yall were too much fun to hang out/smash with after the tourney.

 

[h1roshi]

that sucks, he didnt get to chill with one of WATO's finest. maybe next time. i would have loved to get pika tips and training from him...peace

-hiroshi

 

[kinetixgaming]

All I gotta say is... wow

Look, here's a few things:

1. Our place wasn't built on Smash, for Smash or with Smash Tournaments specifically in mind. I'm not tossing my very very expensive HDTV setups just for some people that claim lag on a TV for a cartoon game.

2. We have people that play high-speed FPS games online, Single-player and LAN, without a hint of LAG. Its the game's inability to send the info to the TV, not the TV's fault...

3. If you are playing someone on the same TV, you have the same "Lag" as you say. I find it funny that the Front TV is just the same as the back TV, save for one being a Projector (back), and that people only claimed lag on the Front. Do you know that the Back TV has HDTV cables that run about 40 feet through the walls and ceiling before they reach the Projector? THAT should cause lag... so much for that HDTV theory, IMHO.

4. You bring another TV into my establishment, and now you've created an unfair environment. Now someone thinks they get the shaft if they play on what they think is an unfair TV, while you play on your 13" Sanyo...

So, I'm glad everyone came to play, and I hope you come back next month. I'm sorry you have all these hangups about such a simple game. Anther played on ALL the screens and whupped everyone equally, and with a very "Twitch" character, that requires more instant-response timing than others.

NEXT TOURNAMENT, will be MLG RULES, someone post me up a link. We will also SEE about bringing in as many regular TV's as we can and setting them up, but then we will NOT have the bigscreens available for play if everyone agrees.

To Vericz, the brackets were fair and square. We run different styles of tournaments from normal Smash, sorry you didn't like it... we normally have Shooters and such... where people don't complain about how soft the chairs are and how it affects their gameplay

Its a tournament, it had House Rules, they were posted before-hand, and everyone showed up for a shot at the $$$. Sorry you didn't take home the Cash, but no need to cry about it. Show up next time and maybe Anther won't be down from Michigan to go undefeated all the way to 1st Place... and he didn't once complain about a single thing... just played his game, much respect.

I'm willing to compromise and make some adjustments, but I also read through all the post-tournament posts on here and see how there's usually nothing but complaining afterwards...
All I can promise is that we'll strive to do better, but we can't make everything 100% for everyone, sorry, that's life.


KiNETiX

I don't suffer sore losers, sorry. I come from FPS shooters... where if you lose, yer my *****, and if I lose, I'm yours... if someone cries, we take their balls.

 

[Reno>]

Thats a sweet list, bro. WATO was helping ur tournament out with the T.V. u should be thanking them not saying their creating an unfair enviroment.

 

[Anther]

I just wanna say some things in reply to your post...
Even if they were both the same type of television, the one in the front was noticibly laggier than the TV in the back, but they both lagged quite a bit and it really does mess with your sense of whether you can actually play the game to your fullest.

The front tv had at least 6-8 frames of lag between controller input and when it appeared on screen, while the one in the back was probably 3-4 frames of lag. There's tourneys at a game center in michigan has the whole HD projector tv thing and I'm used to compensating for the lag, but at the same time the guy that runs it gets people to bring in lots of TV's so that it isn't a problem if people want to opt out of playing on the Projector (Which somehow he got rid of the lag associated with it... so its actually a good option to play the finals on that screen.. )

The singles backets were very messed up in my opinion. Firstly, everyone on the same side of the bracket shouldn't always end up on the same side of the losers bracket, as the point of double elimination is to get a semi fair representation of player ability by not letting say the best players play eachother back to back, simply cause the bracket gives them a spread of players to play... and some other stuff x_X.... but that can be fixed by downloading some tournament organizing software.. and the top 8 thing at the end being single elimination is a little unfair... If the top 2 play each other first match, one of them will place 8th. It really messes with things a bit. Though I think yall did it because of time constraints...

The only reason I didn't complain was because I don't care to kick up trouble that could result in lots more people complaining XD... but it'd be a good thing if you ask smashers to bring in their own televisions for the event.

And the whole problem with playing someone with the same "Lag"... sure it's equal, but you're essentially playing a different game than the one you've practiced for the years beforehand simply because your character isn't reacting how you expect it to react. I'm really shocked you guys couldn't notice the lag on the front HD though...

Sure it might be the system's fault it can't play properly on some HD Tv's but that can't really be helped... but that's why you get people to bring their own ^__^.

 

[Anther]

But yah I don't really agree with people whining about chair softness... I had a lil moment before I played the last match cause the chair had me sitting with good posture (not being able to slouch sucks!!), but in the end you shouldn't let things like that affect your game, can't always play in a controlled environment with everything the way you like it.

Guess I could've posted shoutouts instead of typing all this... XD.

The main reason people are complaining is because.. well.. smash has been out for a while and the way tourneys with the MLG ruleset are run are pretty darn fair. It's like you ran a tennis tourney, but decided that the server isn't switched between gamess, and first to 40 wins, regardless of whether they're winning by 2. Most people aren't going to complain openly or outright leave because, shoot.. smash is fun, but the tourney isn't gonna be pleasurable...

 

[purekorea]

I believe the back TV lagged less cause it was on a Wii and the front was played on a cube. From my experience the Wii seems to handle HD TV's better. <-- just a guess.

 

[SheerMadness]

I know I'm going to sound like an ******* but it's not meant to come off that way, so I apologize in advance kinetix.

Kinetix will either take our suggestions seriously or they'll simply lose business. The fact is that the tournament was not fair the way it was run. Like Anther said, playing on laggy basically means that you're not playing the game you've been used to playing. Smash is Extremely dependent on frame based timing, unless you play smash at an advanced level you'll never realize how badly laggy TVs affect your play. Playing one game matches and not best of 3 or 5 is definately not fair. Smash is not like any shooting game so you can't compare formats and say it's fair.

Right now you have about 4-5 other LAN centers you're competing with for our business. Except they have a huge advantage on you since they all use the proper tournament rule set and allow the players to bring in non laggy TVs to play on. As of right now if any of their tournaments fall on the same date as yours (which is very likely since they all hold monthly/bimonthly tourneys) don't expect any of us to come to your tournament over theirs.

Gigabits, which holds the biggest and most successful smash tournaments in CFL brings in about 60+ to each of their tourneys. I'd say they bring around $800-1000 in revenue for one day of smash (a single and doubles tourney). They also have no problem catering to our suggestions and will not hesitate to make a change if we ask them.

I'd say it's on your shoulders, kinetix, as to whether or not you want our business. Again, you guys seemed like pritty nice guys so I'm sorry If this came off as harsh. But it's a competitive world, and if you want our business you're going to have to make some changes!

 

[TedBoosley]

Look, here's a few things:

1. Our place wasn't built on Smash, for Smash or with Smash Tournaments specifically in mind. I'm not tossing my very very expensive HDTV setups just for some people that claim lag on a TV for a cartoon game.

2. We have people that play high-speed FPS games online, Single-player and LAN, without a hint of LAG. Its the game's inability to send the info to the TV, not the TV's fault...

3. If you are playing someone on the same TV, you have the same "Lag" as you say. I find it funny that the Front TV is just the same as the back TV, save for one being a Projector (back), and that people only claimed lag on the Front. Do you know that the Back TV has HDTV cables that run about 40 feet through the walls and ceiling before they reach the Projector? THAT should cause lag... so much for that HDTV theory, IMHO.

4. You bring another TV into my establishment, and now you've created an unfair environment. Now someone thinks they get the shaft if they play on what they think is an unfair TV, while you play on your 13" Sanyo...

So, I'm glad everyone came to play, and I hope you come back next month. I'm sorry you have all these hangups about such a simple game. Anther played on ALL the screens and whupped everyone equally, and with a very "Twitch" character, that requires more instant-response timing than others.

NEXT TOURNAMENT, will be MLG RULES, someone post me up a link. We will also SEE about bringing in as many regular TV's as we can and setting them up, but then we will NOT have the bigscreens available for play if everyone agrees.

To Vericz, the brackets were fair and square. We run different styles of tournaments from normal Smash, sorry you didn't like it... we normally have Shooters and such... where people don't complain about how soft the chairs are and how it affects their gameplay

Its a tournament, it had House Rules, they were posted before-hand, and everyone showed up for a shot at the $$$. Sorry you didn't take home the Cash, but no need to cry about it. Show up next time and maybe Anther won't be down from Michigan to go undefeated all the way to 1st Place... and he didn't once complain about a single thing... just played his game, much respect.

I'm willing to compromise and make some adjustments, but I also read through all the post-tournament posts on here and see how there's usually nothing but complaining afterwards...
All I can promise is that we'll strive to do better, but we can't make everything 100% for everyone, sorry, that's life.


KiNETiX

I don't suffer sore losers, sorry. I come from FPS shooters... where if you lose, yer my *****, and if I lose, I'm yours... if someone cries, we take their balls.

I come from FPS, too. ****, I went to MLG Orlando to play Halo 2, and H2 players ***** like you wouldn't ****ing believe. We used to get in REAL FIGHTS over that game. I remember one dude getting jumped in a parking lot after talking absurd amounts of **** during a tournament where he was getting carried by his teammate.

One thing about the brackets that confused me: Pure Korea and I were both 4 matches in when we were eliminated in the original Double Elim brackets... but he made it to the top 8 and I didn't. Care to explain this to me?

And to be fair, the lag on your front HDTV isn't as bad as most other TVs with lag. Plasma TVs in particular have REALLY bad lag, though I'm not sure on the science behind.

Thanks, though, for doing the best you could when you weren't expecting such a large tournament, and didn't have the needed setups for it. We're glad that you're working to make it better, but I was getting a majorly unpleasent vibe from you, specifically while I was trying to negotiate the rules and while I was trying to understand the brackets.

 

[vericz]

LOL at kinetix's post. I'll go through it by numbers seeing as how me and anthrax were specifically named.

1.No LAN center is built for smash, they just switch a few things around to make it seem like they were. You don't have to move or even shut off the HDs, there were a few areas that if more people did bring tvs you could have easily fit them there.

2. It's not the games inability, it's the systems.

3. We played on both, and EVERYONE knew the front had more lag than the back, don't know why it just did.

4. Agree, but how many other people who were there could have brought one in. The first post never specified how many Tvs were there nor did it specify the types of tvs. I guarantee you that if you check any other smash tournament thread you will see an area that specifies the amount and type of tv.

Your comment on Anthrax- Made me laugh harder than that. If you actually knew that game you would know that playing with any character requires timing. Don't bash the game or the other players because one person did well, I was doing good, too, but the style of the tourney didn't show it (single game double elim.)

Tvs and next tourney sound good to me.

Your comment on me- Those brackets were complete bull****. Ask ANYONE on this thread, especially the top 8 format thing. What the hell is that, if someone who hasn't lost once loses there they are out while someone who already lost and wins keeps going, VERY unfair to me. By the way, NOT ONCE DID I COMPLAIN ABOUT CHAIRS, I have no idea where you came up with that and decided to point it to me but I actually complimented your store with the amount of seating it had and the comfort. Don't point someone out if you don't know who did it, especially me. I can easily say **** about you guys (which would be very true unlike your statement) and host MY OWN tourney and have a better turnout than you.

Your next comment REALLY pissed me off. Your rules were posted but were not specific which was very misleading, We didn't only show up for a shot at the money, we showed up for fun and to hang out and play with the people we normally don't get a chance to play with. Anthrax did complain but didn't complain about it aloud or to you guys, he was very chill and content and I bet he had more fun hanging out with us and playing at our place than at your tourney. And Anthrax's presence there didn't affect the tourney, it was the ruleset that we weren't used to that really hurt our gameplay, AND the tvs. (Anthrax is too good though)

Get your facts straight and learn how to adjust your tournament to make it fun for all, and even bring you in some more cash. Gigabits started the same way and now has 35+ entrants for each event (mainly all from orlando).

Oh, and don't compare FPS to smash, they are completely different, I know because I also play FPS, Which ALWAYS have the most people who ***** and complain and talk the most ANNOYING ****.

I'm now off to take a ****.

Edit- changed All ANthers to ANTHRAX

 

[Pasqual]

Man that match was complete bull****
the tv was so laggy it was like playing in slow motion. It was luck that i won. I couldnt play on that thing.
I bet you feel robbed by sum nub
REMATCH SON on a good tv

Hahah man, no worries. We'll get a friendlies set in at Gigs or something.

Kinetix, just check out the Gigabits threads and the pools to get an idea of what the smash community is interested in, setup wise. The tourney was still fun despite the shortcomings and I hope to come to the next one.

 

[Anther]

yah still fun but had some probs, as negative as my post above might seem =]... I'd do it again XD.

lol @ Anthrax >_<.

 

[vericz]

yah still fun but had some probs, as negative as my post above might seem =]... I'd do it again XD.

lol @ Anthrax >_<.

YEAH, good games FL is funny, right?

 

[xYz]

I know I'm going to sound like an ******* but it's not meant to come off that way, so I apologize in advance kinetix.

Kinetix will either take our suggestions seriously or they'll simply lose business. The fact is that the tournament was not fair the way it was run. Like Anther said, playing on laggy basically means that you're not playing the game you've been used to playing. Smash is Extremely dependent on frame based timing, unless you play smash at an advanced level you'll never realize how badly laggy TVs affect your play. Playing one game matches and not best of 3 or 5 is definately not fair. Smash is not like any shooting game so you can't compare formats and say it's fair.

Right now you have about 4-5 other LAN centers you're competing with for our business. Except they have a huge advantage on you since they all use the proper tournament rule set and allow the players to bring in non laggy TVs to play on. As of right now if any of their tournaments fall on the same date as yours (which is very likely since they all hold monthly/bimonthly tourneys) don't expect any of us to come to your tournament over theirs.

Gigabits, which holds the biggest and most successful smash tournaments in CFL brings in about 60+ to each of their tourneys. I'd say they bring around $800-1000 in revenue for one day of smash (a single and doubles tourney). They also have no problem catering to our suggestions and will not hesitate to make a change if we ask them.

I'd say it's on your shoulders, kinetix, as to whether or not you want our business. Again, you guys seemed like pritty nice guys so I'm sorry If this came off as harsh. But it's a competitive world, and if you want our business you're going to have to make some changes!

I couldn't have said it better.

Kinetix, you two were awesome host, and very friendly. But like Ryan (sheer) said, you can bring in tons of ppl in every month, if you just change some things up a bit. Which in reality, isn't much. Just Tv's and a lil adjustments on the setup. I for one had alot of fun there playing teams, the atmosphere was nice, and everyone there was cool. I never got a chance to play on the front tv, but I liked playing the one in teh back just fine.
Take our advice, and watch your tourney's grow every month.

-Will

 

[h1roshi]

i didnt get to go to this tourney but i really hope kinetix checks the posts you guys made so they can see how to do this thing properly, cuz i do want to try and attend some of their other smash tourneys...peace

-hiroshi

 

[SCOTU]

2. We have people that play high-speed FPS games online, Single-player and LAN, without a hint of LAG. Its the game's inability to send the info to the TV, not the TV's fault...

Good sir, i have no idea why i'm posting here. except for this comment alone. such ignorance.

I'm gonna guess you play all sorts of High speed FPS games like say Halo2, for the 360. You probably are soooo cool, that you run them in HD. I'd like to illustrate a known fact to you. It's called up-scaling. Modern HD TVs, only display in HD. Everything else gets upscaled. This includes a SD game console RCA composite video signal. So, you try to resize the video from 640x480 to 1440x1080, you produce several frames of lag good sir. I've seen instances where this lag can be as much as 8 frames, twice the speed of fox's (or Pika's) jump time for that matter. Yet, you jack in your Component video 360, or, gasp, you HDMI output into that puppy, and boom! fast speeds, no lag. It has nothing to do w/ the game's in ability, it is strictly a TV issue.

 

[vericz]

Hi scotu Me and Anthrax were talking about you and I knew somehow you would post here

 

[Anther]

Yeah, how Vericz knew we were related through the sig being everywhere XD. thx for the HD Explaination. Scotu is too good with knowledge.