Orange Star's Hyperactive Whiz Kid! - Andy For Smash Ultimate! We'll Live To Fight Another Day...

[Ura]

Yeah it's incredibly hard to speculate on something so far away. There's way too much we just don't know, and way too much that could happen between now and then. On one hand, the band-aid's been ripped off for me already with the DLC; I'd be surprised if I we got one character whose inclusion made sense to me, or maybe we could get a couple that I'm at least okay with. But yeah, hype has pretty much flatlined.

Yeah my hype is about 0 right now. I'm so uninterested in the prospect of this DLC right now and I won't even bother if it comes true. I just have to say that.

But hey, I think that's enough negativity for now. Lets get some AW-related discussion going here. I thought of a fun topic to discuss regarding a future AW game.

If there were a new Advance Wars game that featured an entirely new story, setting, and characters, how would you go about giving characters from the older games a role in the game?

Personally what i'd do is something similar to FE Awakening where all the lords of the previous game returned in that game. So maybe there's a post game feature that lets you unlock CO's from the past games like Andy & Will with updated designs, what have you.

I think said CO's could even have their own special missions in the War Room as well and can be playable in the Hard Mode of the Campaign upon being unlocked.

 

[SPEN18]

Yeah my hype is about 0 right now. I'm so uninterested in the prospect of this DLC right now and I won't even bother if it comes true. I just have to say that.

But hey, I think that's enough negativity for now. Lets get some AW-related discussion going here. I thought of a fun topic to discuss regarding a future AW game.

If there were a new Advance Wars game that featured an entirely new story, setting, and characters, how would you go about giving characters from the older games a role in the game?

Personally what i'd do is something similar to FE Awakening where all the lords of the previous game returned in that game. So maybe there's a post game feature that lets you unlock CO's from the past games like Andy & Will with updated designs, what have you.

I think said CO's could even have their own special missions in the War Room as well and can be playable in the Hard Mode of the Campaign upon being unlocked.

I really like the idea you mentioned about having the old COs as unlockables. To explain it away story-wise, they could go the route that the earlier Fire Emblem games and Black Hole/Dual Strike took, where the game takes place on a different continent but in the same world.

What kinds of new units would you like, if any? They already have a pretty diverse selection and you don't want it to be too complicated, especially for newcomers who didn't play the original games, but I imagine they'd add at least a couple new units.

 

[Ura]

I really like the idea you mentioned about having the old COs as unlockables. To explain it away story-wise, they could go the route that the earlier Fire Emblem games and Black Hole/Dual Strike took, where the game takes place on a different continent but in the same world.

What kinds of new units would you like, if any? They already have a pretty diverse selection and you don't want it to be too complicated, especially for newcomers who didn't play the original games, but I imagine they'd add at least a couple new units.

Well Days of Ruin outright has most of the world's population killed in a meteor strike so I doubt it's the same world from the Wars World games. There was a tidbit on the old DoR's site (I believe it was the European one) that implied the old CO's were killed but that's never been confirmed in any official source let alone the developers of the game. And it would be a really ****ty way to write off the old characters like that.

The way I thought of my idea was to have them all as unlockable or have them as free updates with their own War Room missions as I mentioned earlier. They would even have special dialogue with the characters in the new game through the Campaign. It'd be cool to see Andy and Will interacting for the first time.

As for new units, I haven't put much thought in to that. I guess their could be new aircraft that serves as a long range unit similar to Rockets & Battleships. Maybe have Tanks that specialize in taking out sea units similar to what Anti-Air's are for aircraft? I could brainstorm all day about this and i'm curious to see what you guys think.

 

[Nauzgo]

Ura Ahh come on, man. Don't let yourself down like this. I mean, yeah, we're prolly both not that happy about Isaac's and Andy's low chances now but there's still so many other cool characters we can look forward to. Or is there noone else left you'd wanna see?

Be optimistic for the future guys. The Nintendo president recently said he's interested in more DLC for Nintendo games and when he sees how good Smash DLC will do they will certainly consider more DLC. IS stated several times that they would like to make a new AW. Nothing's out of possibility. Especially when looking at all the franchises that've already gotten games on the Switch. From the major ones there's only like Pikmin, Wario, Kid Icarus, F-Zero, and Punch Out left, aswell as Mario spinoffs. Afterwards, I'm pretty sure they'll focus on smaller franchises like AW or GS eventually. The time will come, let's be patient and enjoy all those beatiful other games waiting in the pipeline!

 

[Ura]

Ura Ahh come on, man. Don't let yourself down like this. I mean, yeah, we're prolly both not that happy about Isaac's and Andy's low chances now but there's still so many other cool characters we can look forward to. Or is there noone else left you'd wanna see?

Be optimistic for the future guys. The Nintendo president recently said he's interested in more DLC for Nintendo games and when he sees how good Smash DLC will do they will certainly consider more DLC. IS stated several times that they would like to make a new AW. Nothing's out of possibility. Especially when looking at all the franchises that've already gotten games on the Switch. From the major ones there's only like Pikmin, Wario, Kid Icarus, F-Zero, and Punch Out left, aswell as Mario spinoffs. Afterwards, I'm pretty sure they'll focus on smaller franchises like AW or GS eventually. The time will come, let's be patient and enjoy all those beatiful other games waiting in the pipeline!

I didn't mean to be a party pooper. Just that as the way DLC is rumored I have no interest nor intent to purchase anything. If anyone else likes the content it's not like i'm holding it against them. Because that would be petty. Everyone should enjoy what they want. And besides the base roster is good enough for me if it comes to that.

IS always expresses interest to return to the franchise but they've been doing that for the past 5 and a half years only for nothing to come out of it. Even worse is when we all think that maybe they might return only for another FE game to pop out of the woodwork. I went on a tangent about this some pages ago so I don't want to do that again. So naturally, i'm left feeling pretty cynical and quite frankly frustrated. I don't know whether it's their call or Nintendo's to make but either way the situation is egregious to me.

I want them to return to the franchise and i'm still holding out hope for that but i'm not actively expecting that to happen.

 

[SPEN18]

Ura Ura Ahh come on, man. Don't let yourself down like this. I mean, yeah, we're prolly both not that happy about Isaac's and Andy's low chances now but there's still so many other cool characters we can look forward to. Or is there noone else left you'd wanna see?

Be optimistic for the future guys. The Nintendo president recently said he's interested in more DLC for Nintendo games and when he sees how good Smash DLC will do they will certainly consider more DLC. IS stated several times that they would like to make a new AW. Nothing's out of possibility. Especially when looking at all the franchises that've already gotten games on the Switch. From the major ones there's only like Pikmin, Wario, Kid Icarus, F-Zero, and Punch Out left, aswell as Mario spinoffs. Afterwards, I'm pretty sure they'll focus on smaller franchises like AW or GS eventually. The time will come, let's be patient and enjoy all those beatiful other games waiting in the pipeline!

Thanks for the daily message of positivity.

Yes, there are plenty of other characters I would like to see. But most of them have chances just as low as Isaac and Andy. I will also say that Smash won't truly be 'Ultimate' for me until Isaac and Andy are in there. I'd also love having Lyn, but if Isaac and Andy are in I could go without because FE has plenty of other representation (basically I would like an FE7 rep, they could add Hector or Eliwood or Jaffar or whoever).

The other thing that I'm a bit fearful of is that GS and AW will get revived, but it won't be until the very tail end of the Switch's lifetime when people are already moving on to the next console. It would be horrible to finally get another game just for it to flop. Basically, plz no Dark Dawn 2.0 (although DD didn't flop and wasn't even a bad game, it didn't meet expectations either).

I didn't mean to be a party pooper. Just that as the way DLC is rumored I have no interest nor intent to purchase anything. If anyone else likes the content it's not like i'm holding it against them. Because that would be petty. Everyone should enjoy what they want.

yeah we're not saying people should boycott the DLC or whatever. I just have no plans to buy it right now because all signs are pointing to me not wanting it.

 

[Nauzgo]

I didn't mean to be a party pooper. Just that as the way DLC is rumored I have no interest nor intent to purchase anything. If anyone else likes the content it's not like i'm holding it against them. Because that would be petty. Everyone should enjoy what they want. And besides the base roster is good enough for me if it comes to that.

IS always expresses interest to return to the franchise but they've been doing that for the past 5 and a half years only for nothing to come out of it. Even worse is when we all think that maybe they might return only for another FE game to pop out of the woodwork. I went on a tangent about this some pages ago so I don't want to do that again. So naturally, i'm left feeling pretty cynical and quite frankly frustrated. I don't know whether it's their call or Nintendo's to make but either way the situation is egregious to me.

I want them to return to the franchise and i'm still holding out hope for that but i'm not actively expecting that to happen.

Ahh I didn't want to sound like I'm blaming you for your reasonable frustration. It's only natural to be frustrated now and that's what I feel, too.

But I mean, maybe there'll be DLC that appeals to us and I seriously recommend focusing on the aspects we look forward to in the game.

I'm sure Nintendo will permit a new AW eventually. Similar to how they brought back Kid Icarus, Punch Out, Sin & Punishment, GS with DD or Excitebike.

Thanks for the daily message of positivity.

Yes, there are plenty of other characters I would like to see. But most of them have chances just as low as Isaac and Andy. I will also say that Smash won't truly be 'Ultimate' for me until Isaac and Andy are in there. I'd also love having Lyn, but if Isaac and Andy are in I could go without because FE has plenty of other representation (basically I would like an FE7 rep, they could add Hector or Eliwood or Jaffar or whoever).

The other thing that I'm a bit fearful of is that GS and AW will get revived, but it won't be until the very tail end of the Switch's lifetime when people are already moving on to the next console. It would be horrible to finally get another game just for it to flop. Basically, plz no Dark Dawn 2.0 (although DD didn't flop and wasn't even a bad game, it didn't meet expectations either).



yeah we're not saying people should boycott the DLC or whatever. I just have no plans to buy it right now because all signs are pointing to me not wanting it.

No problem, I like to spread my current good mood

Yeah but who knows. I never thought Ryu would appeal to me in Smash but he did. Hope for the best.

Mhhm it was sad when Dark Dawn wasn't recognized much due to being released too late in the DS' lifespan. Still I sincerely believe that there won't be a 2nd FE on Switch and I expect Mario Golf to be released not that late too so there is enough time for GS4. That comes with the probably long lasting lifespan of the Switch and the growing success of niche franchises like Xenoblade or Octopath.

 

[GoodGrief741]

If there were a new AW, I think they’d either go with a completely new cast of characters, or just make a sequel to the Wars World games.

 

[SPEN18]

I'd actually be alright with a new cast of characters, provided they have the same charm of the OG ones. And I would hope that they'd reference those older characters like Andy, Eagle, Olaf, etc. somehow, even if that's just through War Room maps and Unlockables like Ura suggested.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I don’t know if IS knows there’s such a big passion for the old cast like there is with Fire Emblem though.

We might get a first game where it’s all new characters, and only in the sequel/through DLC do we get references/cameos/appearances by the old guard.

Sort of like Jurassic World I guess? (Why the hell aren’t Alan and Ellie in Fallen Kingdom aghhh)

 

[Nauzgo]

I don’t know if IS knows there’s such a big passion for the old cast like there is with Fire Emblem though.

We might get a first game where it’s all new characters, and only in the sequel/through DLC do we get references/cameos/appearances by the old guard.

Sort of like Jurassic World I guess? (Why the hell aren’t Alan and Ellie in Fallen Kingdom aghhh)

That should be the way to go imo. Establish a new cast with different characters, mindsets, relationships etc

 

[GoodGrief741]

That should be the way to go imo. Establish a new cast with different characters, mindsets, relationships etc

And then if we hate them they can just bring back the old guys to satisfy our crusty old asses.

(All in jest, of course)

 

[Ura]

Yeah I think a new cast is the way to go for a new Advance Wars provided CO's from past games will still be in the game akin to what the previous lords were in FE Awakening. Maybe they have something where it's like you face off against a CO and then once you beat them you unlock them in the Campaign, War Room, and VS Mode? Or maybe they release post-release content featuring the CO's of old from the Wars World and Days of Ruin universes? Obviously in that case, it would have to be Andy & Will being the first old CO's added in given they're the face of their respective universes. And from then on out you get more CO's like Max, Sami, Nell, Isabella, Brenner, Lin, etc.

I'm of mind that the next Advance Wars (whenever that may be) will be a mid-point between Wars World and Days of Ruin Advance Wars (in regards to the tone and setting). Not as happy go lucky as Wars World was but not as dark as Days of Ruin, So I think you get something similar to Fire Emblem in terms of tone (lets face it Intelligent Systems is going to be drawing a lot of influence from that series in a new Advance Wars).

The game will most likely have the CO's play a much bigger part in the game and will go in depth about their character, motivations, what have you. And as for the battle system, I believe it'll be mostly the same way though it'll probably pull a page from Three Houses where the CO's are the ones leading certain units. I think said new game would also allow for multiple CO's to be on the battlefield with different abilities and what not.

So if that were to happen, it'd be fun to see the Wars World cast actually be on the Battlefield. And that way people wouldn't be able to argue that Andy can't be in Smash because he's never been shown to fight before.

 

[GoodGrief741]

You know, I think they’d actually go the opposite direction, capitalizing on AW’s differences to modern FE.

I mean, think about it, do they really want to put out two products that are nearly identical except for the fact that one takes place in a fantasy world? They’d risk redundancy and alienating the AW fanbase.

If anything, I see them sticking to the zany tone of Wars World, cartoon designs and all. Maybe make a few designs waifu-er (in, like, a Shantae kind of way, I guess). But keep OCs off the battlefield, and keep support convos out. Lest they risk copying themselves too much.

Or I guess we could get a gritty Battalion Wars reboot.

 

[Ura]

You know, I think they’d actually go the opposite direction, capitalizing on AW’s differences to modern FE.

I mean, think about it, do they really want to put out two products that are nearly identical except for the fact that one takes place in a fantasy world? They’d risk redundancy and alienating the AW fanbase.

If anything, I see them sticking to the zany tone of Wars World, cartoon designs and all. Maybe make a few designs waifu-er (in, like, a Shantae kind of way, I guess). But keep OCs off the battlefield, and keep support convos out. Lest they risk copying themselves too much.

Or I guess we could get a gritty Battalion Wars reboot.

Hell no to a gritty Battalion Wars. I mean if they wanted to do that separately for a BW reboot i'd be fine with that but otherwise I wouldn't want that.

I think the idea you mentioned could work but Intelligent Systems specifically cited that relationships would have to be a thing in a new Advance Wars hence why I think it would have to have CO's on the battlefield. It wouldn't be outright copying Fire Emblem given disposable units and all the gameplay features Advance Wars is known for but it'd just have it's CO's be a lot more involved in gameplay and be fighting alongside the other disposable units.

I could see them wanting a tone similar to AW1 though if they wanted to keep the tone different from FE and distinguish the two more. It'd just be funny to see a game like that after Days of Ruin but I think i'd still like it lol.

 

[SPEN18]

Hot take: IS's comments about AW having to incorporate the relationships stuff was just a PR excuse and, since those comments were made a while ago, may or may not give any real indicator of the direction a new AW game might go.

But yeah, old cast or new I'll take a new AW game. I don't mind if they take a couple pages out of FE's book but they also need to give the series its own identity; that's what allowed AW and FE to coexist to begin with.

 

[Ura]

Hot take: IS's comments about AW having to incorporate the relationships stuff was just a PR excuse and, since those comments were made a while ago, may or may not give any real indicator of the direction a new AW game might go.

But yeah, old cast or new I'll take a new AW game. I don't mind if they take a couple pages out of FE's book but they also need to give the series its own identity; that's what allowed AW and FE to coexist to begin with.

Well it was only a year and a half ago so I doubt it's dated that much.

As for it being a PR excuse, it could be but I doubt it. It's how FE succeeded and they would most likely want certain elements from that game to transfer over. It doesn't mean AW becomes FE-lite of course. Hell no. Just that it borrows some of it's mechanics.

The comment they made suggests that many in their staff are eager to return to the franchise and it's the same company that claims to be "always thinking about the next Advance Wars" so take that for what you will. I just wish these staff members had more sway in having a new title green lit. Because whoever's in charge of these decisions doesn't seem to be in a hurry to make a new game.

But that aside (don't want to go off on a tangent again), a new AW would still keep it's identity. I think that AW and FE might borrow from each other but at the end of the day, it's impossible for either to cannibalize each other without compromising it's identity. Unlike F-Zero and Mario Kart where Mario Kart can almost entirely replace the former (as much as I hate it).

 

[GoodGrief741]

I don’t really see how COs would show up on the battlefield. They’d probably still keep generic units, as there can’t really be a CO leading each possible one you could buy. But if just the one CO you play as leads their own unit, how do you build supports? Or, maybe there are a few limited units led by COs, but then what CO power do you get to use?

And then there’s death. If a unit led by a CO dies, does the CO die as well? Is there permadeath?

And how many COs will there be? Just a small, ragtag crew, or a massive number, like Fire Emblem or Suikoden or Valkyria Chronicles?

No matter where I look, there’s a question.

(Plus, and this is just me, but I can’t really see characters like Andy and Sami falling in love and having kids, nor can I see myself shipping them)

 

[Luigifan18]

To answer the question posed by GoodGrief741 , they would probably have a CO Unit system similar to Days of Ruin in order to simulate the CO being on the battlefield. Heck, that was part of the point of CO Unit system in DoR — to represent the CO being on the field. And despite that game's gritty death-is-real-and-it-is-flipping-everywhere attitude (to the point where your CO would usually die if you lost a mission in Campaign mode), getting your CO Unit destroyed wasn't the end of the world — you just lost whatever CO Power energy you had stored up and had to shell out some funds to attach your CO to another unit. Basically, if Intelligent Systems wants to have COs be on the battlefield for the purpose of building supports with each other, they'll probably just reuse the CO Unit system they had in Days of Ruin.

 

[GoodGrief741]

To answer the question posed by GoodGrief741 , they would probably have a CO Unit system similar to Days of Ruin in order to simulate the CO being on the battlefield. Heck, that was part of the point of CO Unit system in DoR — to represent the CO being on the field. And despite that game's gritty death-is-real-and-it-is-flipping-everywhere attitude (to the point where your CO would usually die if you lost a mission in Campaign mode), getting your CO Unit destroyed wasn't the end of the world — you just lost whatever CO Power energy you had stored up and had to shell out some funds to attach your CO to another unit. Basically, if Intelligent Systems wants to have COs be on the battlefield for the purpose of building supports with each other, they'll probably just reuse the CO Unit system they had in Days of Ruin.

I never played Days of Ruin, was the system good?

 

[Ura]

I don’t really see how COs would show up on the battlefield. They’d probably still keep generic units, as there can’t really be a CO leading each possible one you could buy. But if just the one CO you play as leads their own unit, how do you build supports? Or, maybe there are a few limited units led by COs, but then what CO power do you get to use?

And then there’s death. If a unit led by a CO dies, does the CO die as well? Is there permadeath?

And how many COs will there be? Just a small, ragtag crew, or a massive number, like Fire Emblem or Suikoden or Valkyria Chronicles?

No matter where I look, there’s a question.

(Plus, and this is just me, but I can’t really see characters like Andy and Sami falling in love and having kids, nor can I see myself shipping them)

Yeah the way I thought about it was something similar to FE Three Houses where the CO fights with the other units. i.e. a CO leading the command of a tank unit or what have you. I think it would be something almost exclusive to the Campaign unless the setting were changed. Like in multiplayer, you can choose whether or not CO's are on the battlefield or just sticking with the regular Advance Wars gameplay.

For the Campaign, I can see multiple CO's being a thing because the story would most likely follow a certain nation or a protagonist leading a group of nations who each have their own abilities and such. For the CO Power's, I can see them being nerfed a bit but then there's multiple CO's so they all have different power meters. In multiplayer mode though, i'd think the more powerful CO Power's can still happen akin to the older ones.

I don't think the older characters would be shipped of course. That would pretty much be exclusive to the newer cast because the older ones wouldn't be involved with the story that much if at all.

To answer the question posed by GoodGrief741 , they would probably have a CO Unit system similar to Days of Ruin in order to simulate the CO being on the battlefield. Heck, that was part of the point of CO Unit system in DoR — to represent the CO being on the field. And despite that game's gritty death-is-real-and-it-is-flipping-everywhere attitude (to the point where your CO would usually die if you lost a mission in Campaign mode), getting your CO Unit destroyed wasn't the end of the world — you just lost whatever CO Power energy you had stored up and had to shell out some funds to attach your CO to another unit. Basically, if Intelligent Systems wants to have COs be on the battlefield for the purpose of building supports with each other, they'll probably just reuse the CO Unit system they had in Days of Ruin.

I can see something similar to Days of Ruin but overhauled to allow multiple CO's and such. In this case so, I think permadeath might be a thing at least for the campaign.

 

[DNeon]

Ura Ahh come on, man. Don't let yourself down like this. I mean, yeah, we're prolly both not that happy about Isaac's and Andy's low chances now but there's still so many other cool characters we can look forward to. Or is there noone else left you'd wanna see?

Be optimistic for the future guys. The Nintendo president recently said he's interested in more DLC for Nintendo games and when he sees how good Smash DLC will do they will certainly consider more DLC. IS stated several times that they would like to make a new AW. Nothing's out of possibility. Especially when looking at all the franchises that've already gotten games on the Switch. From the major ones there's only like Pikmin, Wario, Kid Icarus, F-Zero, and Punch Out left, aswell as Mario spinoffs. Afterwards, I'm pretty sure they'll focus on smaller franchises like AW or GS eventually. The time will come, let's be patient and enjoy all those beatiful other games waiting in the pipeline!

Thank you so much dude, I was almost on the verge of abandoning the thread. A page of negativity about things yet to even have information on was just too much for me. I get that people aren't excited for the names of the characters but I never understood the idea that you buy the game/content just forhte names attached to it. Like, what if Isaac just played boring...

I mean I'm psyched as hell by the mere possibility of Andy getting in, dont get me wrong, but an important part of that is the way that Sakurai designs characters to feel faithful to their games (and also the small matter of Andy and AW getting some kind of attention paid to it after a decade of nothing).

But as I've posted before in some other threads, I'd buy Ray Romano's Left Knee as DLC if it looked fun to play. Am I excited by the mere possibiility of finally playing as a Pirhana Plant? lol no. Does Pirhana Plant look fun as hell to play? HELL YEAH, give me that super armoured extendo-bite and useless looking but gimmicky ball blow (lord knows I've gotten used to Sm4sh Gordo's already). As much as you can make fun of the MVCI developer claiming that characters are just a bunch of functions (presentation matters of course), he's not wrong that games can be fun without the draw of big names and flashy visuals. Smash just so happens to be all of that put together in some incredible package, and I have trust in Sakurai that the time spent on this development cycle and the time spent on the DLC will be to try to make it as fun as possible.

EDIT: As for the whole CO topic, I'm not personally a big fan of the idea of the CO's moving onto the battlefield, but I would like the idea of the 'HQ' being more lively, rather than just being the King piece in Chess. Make the COs take control of that HQ and make it feel like it's really the command centre for the ongoing battle.

Also as much as I joked about the Olaf's grandson crackpot theory I do believe the most likely circumstance is to move on to a new cast and introduce the old ones. It's been the MO for a lot of Nintendo products lately, from FE Awakening to the Warriors franchise, to the DLC for both BotW and XC2 consisting largely of references to their previous games and the beloved characters of those franchises. If AW gets a reboot they'll most definitely input the old characters into it in some way, but I think they'll probably have a new cast to begin with.

And on yet another note: I think I saw somewhere the mention that someone thought that costumes/spirits as DLC is unlikely? I wouldn't be so sure. We have the fighters pass but there was plenty of other DLC than just fighters in Sm4sh and there's plenty of teams available that wouldn't be involved in the DLC character design that could contribute to DLC in those kinda of ways.

 

[SPEN18]

In Dual Strike it seems like they dabbled a bit into the area of multiple COs, except you could only pick two and the way it was done felt more like a typical sequel gimmick rather than a core mechanic.

Idk if AW needs permadeath. I'd be okay with it, but I don't see why you need it when an important part of the game is learning how to make small sacrifices in order to make bigger gains.

I get that people aren't excited for the names of the characters but I never understood the idea that you buy the game/content just forhte names attached to it. Like, what if Isaac just played boring...

I guess we differ on this front. When it comes to Smash, for me the key part is the roster; it's what made me love the series to begin with. When games you played get represented, it feels as if they are "preserved" somehow, seemingly permanently inserted into the Smash lore. When it comes to a beloved character like Isaac, for example, just having him in the game as a PC would be pretty much enough for me to be satisfied with him. Sure, I might have a couple gripes with his potential moveset but I wouldn't complain; generally, I trust Sakurai to do a good job with representing a character. Even if he was trash tier and felt weird to play I would still use him and love him in the game (besides, even if he plays horrible I could still beat my casual friends with him). The same goes for Andy. Just having these characters and series get proper representation is the attraction; again, I don't think Sakurai would even come close to screwing them up, but even if he did, at least they're represented.

he's not wrong that games can be fun without the draw of big names and flashy visuals. Smash just so happens to be all of that put together in some incredible package.

Yeah, Smash is an anomaly for me when it comes to this front. Usually I value solid gameplay mechanics waaaay more than characters, story, and graphics. But Smash is kind of a rare beast. As long as the gameplay isn't downright horrible, I really enjoy seeing all these series, relevant and irrelevant, well-known and obscure, get resperesented.

 

[GoodGrief741]

In Dual Strike it seems like they dabbled a bit into the area of multiple COs, except you could only pick two and the way it was done felt more like a typical sequel gimmick rather than a core mechanic.

Idk if AW needs permadeath. I'd be okay with it, but I don't see why you need it when an important part of the game is learning how to make small sacrifices in order to make bigger gains.



I guess we differ on this front. When it comes to Smash, for me the key part is the roster; it's what made me love the series to begin with. When games you played get represented, it feels as if they are "preserved" somehow, seemingly permanently inserted into the Smash lore. When it comes to a beloved character like Isaac, for example, just having him in the game as a PC would be pretty much enough for me to be satisfied with him. Sure, I might have a couple gripes with his potential moveset but I wouldn't complain; generally, I trust Sakurai to do a good job with representing a character. Even if he was trash tier and felt weird to play I would still use him and love him in the game (besides, even if he plays horrible I could still beat my casual friends with him). The same goes for Andy. Just having these characters and series get proper representation is the attraction; again, I don't think Sakurai would even come close to screwing them up, but even if he did, at least they're represented.



Yeah, Smash is an anomaly for me when it comes to this front. Usually I value solid gameplay mechanics waaaay more than characters, story, and graphics. But Smash is kind of a rare beast. As long as the gameplay isn't downright horrible, I really enjoy seeing all these series, relevant and irrelevant, well-known and obscure, get resperesented.

Yeah, same. I love Smash for the characters, not their gameplay. You can make every swordfighter ever a Marth clone, I’d still be excited if I think the character deserves to be in the game. And a huge draw, for me, is to see many characters from different franchises interact, so having new franchises represented is really important. (Not too happy with how Ultimate only adds 2)

 

[SPEN18]

Yeah, same. I love Smash for the characters, not their gameplay. You can make every swordfighter ever a Marth clone, I’d still be excited if I think the character deserves to be in the game. And a huge draw, for me, is to see many characters from different franchises interact, so having new franchises represented is really important. (Not too happy with how Ultimate only adds 2)

Yeah, I'm still shook that we only got 2. Granted, Splatoon and Castlevania are big franchises, but it was weird not to see more than that. Especially with no Nintendo IPs getting brought back into the limelight. This is one of the things that bug me about Incineroar; within a year he's gonna be largely obsolete with Gen 8 coming out and we already have a ton of Pokémon in this game (with 3 not in Smash 4!). His inclusion doesn't really "mean" much, unless he's your favorite Pokémon ever, and it feels like we're just making the rich even richer.


But in terms of new AW units, could we use a cheaper naval unit?

 

[Ura]

EDIT: As for the whole CO topic, I'm not personally a big fan of the idea of the CO's moving onto the battlefield, but I would like the idea of the 'HQ' being more lively, rather than just being the King piece in Chess. Make the COs take control of that HQ and make it feel like it's really the command centre for the ongoing battle.

Also as much as I joked about the Olaf's grandson crackpot theory I do believe the most likely circumstance is to move on to a new cast and introduce the old ones. It's been the MO for a lot of Nintendo products lately, from FE Awakening to the Warriors franchise, to the DLC for both BotW and XC2 consisting largely of references to their previous games and the beloved characters of those franchises. If AW gets a reboot they'll most definitely input the old characters into it in some way, but I think they'll probably have a new cast to begin with.

And on yet another note: I think I saw somewhere the mention that someone thought that costumes/spirits as DLC is unlikely? I wouldn't be so sure. We have the fighters pass but there was plenty of other DLC than just fighters in Sm4sh and there's plenty of teams available that wouldn't be involved in the DLC character design that could contribute to DLC in those kinda of ways.

Yeah that's my thought process with a new cast and what have you. The old guard would still find their way in to the game whether that be unlockable characters or post-release content. Hopefully they all come with special unique War Room missions referencing their appearances from past titles.

i.e. You get to do a special War Room mission against Eagle that reminds you of the good ol' days of playing AC Rivals in AW1

i'm going to hell for saying that lol

DLC Spirits could be a thing but their addition would be pretty minor I think. Of course the more Event Matches the better so bring em' all out.

Yeah, same. I love Smash for the characters, not their gameplay. You can make every swordfighter ever a Marth clone, I’d still be excited if I think the character deserves to be in the game. And a huge draw, for me, is to see many characters from different franchises interact, so having new franchises represented is really important. (Not too happy with how Ultimate only adds 2)

Yeah characters themselves are a huge deal for me as well. Who they are as a character is going to sway how I feel about them. If I played strictly for movesets i'd play some Smash clone like Icons or Brawlout.

Yeah, I'm still shook that we only got 2. Granted, Splatoon and Castlevania are big franchises, but it was weird not to see more than that. Especially with no Nintendo IPs getting brought back into the limelight. This is one of the things that bug me about Incineroar; within a year he's gonna be largely obsolete with Gen 8 coming out and we already have a ton of Pokémon in this game (with 3 not in Smash 4!). His inclusion doesn't really "mean" much, unless he's your favorite Pokémon ever, and it feels like we're just making the rich even richer.


But in terms of new AW units, could we use a cheaper naval unit?

Come to think of it, this really would have been the best time to have a retro/dormant series in the game with so little series being added in. Which is why I thought this game was Isaac's best chance for inclusion aside from a new Golden Sun. Likewise, I thought Andy could have had a chance as this game's "retro" so to speak but it looks like he'll need a new Advance Wars for that as well.

Gotta love em' Catch 22's eh? Your series can't be revived without Smash exposure but you ain't getting in to Smash without your series being relevant. Pour one out for Andy, Isaac, Ray, and Saki. Poor guys are stuck in limbo lol.

Thank you so much dude, I was almost on the verge of abandoning the thread. A page of negativity about things yet to even have information on was just too much for me. I get that people aren't excited for the names of the characters but I never understood the idea that you buy the game/content just forhte names attached to it. Like, what if Isaac just played boring...

I mean I'm psyched as hell by the mere possibility of Andy getting in, dont get me wrong, but an important part of that is the way that Sakurai designs characters to feel faithful to their games (and also the small matter of Andy and AW getting some kind of attention paid to it after a decade of nothing).

But as I've posted before in some other threads, I'd buy Ray Romano's Left Knee as DLC if it looked fun to play. Am I excited by the mere possibiility of finally playing as a Pirhana Plant? lol no. Does Pirhana Plant look fun as hell to play? HELL YEAH, give me that super armoured extendo-bite and useless looking but gimmicky ball blow (lord knows I've gotten used to Sm4sh Gordo's already). As much as you can make fun of the MVCI developer claiming that characters are just a bunch of functions (presentation matters of course), he's not wrong that games can be fun without the draw of big names and flashy visuals. Smash just so happens to be all of that put together in some incredible package, and I have trust in Sakurai that the time spent on this development cycle and the time spent on the DLC will be to try to make it as fun as possible.

Dude I specifically mentioned that I don't mind what others do. What people choose to do with their money is no business of mine.

I'm just saying there's going to be certain DLC characters who I won't buy no matter what unless Nintendo literally held me at gunpoint (have fun with your imagination lol). Movesets be damned, i'm not going to buy promotional characters (or at least not the FE Three Houses character if there is one, maybe i'll consider a Gen 8 PKMN) among other controversial picks. I did the same thing with in Smash 4 and I have no problem doing it again. And besides i'm content with just having the Base Roster if nothing else.

That being said of course, i'd never want you to leave this thread because you've been here since Ultimate got announced and been apart the "Advance Wars gang" as I like to call it (lol that sounds cheesy AF) along with the other long time users in this thread. It would suck to have to lose anyone here.

 

[SPEN18]

Come to think of it, this really would have been the best time to have a retro/dormant series in the game with so little series being added in. Which is why I thought this game was Isaac's best chance for inclusion aside from a new Golden Sun. Likewise, I thought Andy could have had a chance as this game's "retro" so to speak but it looks like he'll need a new Advance Wars for that as well.

Gotta love em' Catch 22's eh? Your series can't be revived without Smash exposure but you ain't getting in to Smash without your series being relevant. Pour one out for Andy, Isaac, Ray, and Saki. Poor guys are stuck in limbo lol.

yep, I genuinely thought that at least Isaac was gonna get in. My body had never been so Reggie ready for a character in Smash before.
Maybe by the time Smash 6 rolls around the GBA/GCN era will be "retro" enough lol. Or, better yet, we see some of these franchises get revivals by then.

And yeah, we're definitely not trying to discourage anybody from buying DLC. I'm sure there'll be people out there who really love Katalina, Steve, or whoever else gets in.

 

[Ura]

yep, I genuinely thought that at least Isaac was gonna get in. My body had never been so Reggie ready for a character in Smash before.
Maybe by the time Smash 6 rolls around the GBA/GCN era will be "retro" enough lol. Or, better yet, we see some of these franchises get revivals by then.

And yeah, we're definitely not trying to discourage anybody from buying DLC. I'm sure there'll be people out there who really love Katalina, Steve, or whoever else gets in.

But in Sakurai's mind, nothing outside the NES is retro lol. Maybe next Smash said criteria will progress to the SNES.

Absolutely not. People should be free to buy or not buy whatever it is they want/don't like. I'd never hold it against them just because said character was someone I didn't like.

 

[SPEN18]

But in Sakurai's mind, nothing outside the NES is retro lol. Maybe next Smash said criteria will progress to the SNES.

Absolutely not. People should be free to buy or not buy whatever it is they want/don't like. I'd never hold it against them just because said character was someone I didn't like.

I mean, there's no guarantee that Sakurai will direct the next Smash game. Not sure how I'd feel about someone else directing it tho; I guess it depends on who it is.

 

[Ura]

I mean, there's no guarantee that Sakurai will direct the next Smash game. Not sure how I'd feel about someone else directing it tho; I guess it depends on who it is.

Agreed. It could be for the better or worse.

Of course new blood being at the helm of the project I think would be for the better, A fresh, new approach to Smash would be welcome. Even if Sakurai is in a supervising role.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Yeah that's my thought process with a new cast and what have you. The old guard would still find their way in to the game whether that be unlockable characters or post-release content. Hopefully they all come with special unique War Room missions referencing their appearances from past titles.

i.e. You get to do a special War Room mission against Eagle that reminds you of the good ol' days of playing AC Rivals in AW1

i'm going to hell for saying that lol

DLC Spirits could be a thing but their addition would be pretty minor I think. Of course the more Event Matches the better so bring em' all out.

Yeah characters themselves are a huge deal for me as well. Who they are as a character is going to sway how I feel about them. If I played strictly for movesets i'd play some Smash clone like Icons or Brawlout.

Come to think of it, this really would have been the best time to have a retro/dormant series in the game with so little series being added in. Which is why I thought this game was Isaac's best chance for inclusion aside from a new Golden Sun. Likewise, I thought Andy could have had a chance as this game's "retro" so to speak but it looks like he'll need a new Advance Wars for that as well.

Gotta love em' Catch 22's eh? Your series can't be revived without Smash exposure but you ain't getting in to Smash without your series being relevant. Pour one out for Andy, Isaac, Ray, and Saki. Poor guys are stuck in limbo lol.

Dude I specifically mentioned that I don't mind what others do. What people choose to do with their money is no business of mine.

I'm just saying there's going to be certain DLC characters who I won't buy no matter what unless Nintendo literally held me at gunpoint (have fun with your imagination lol). Movesets be damned, i'm not going to buy promotional characters (or at least not the FE Three Houses character if there is one, maybe i'll consider a Gen 8 PKMN) among other controversial picks. I did the same thing with in Smash 4 and I have no problem doing it again. And besides i'm content with just having the Base Roster if nothing else.

That being said of course, i'd never want you to leave this thread because you've been here since Ultimate got announced and been apart the "Advance Wars gang" as I like to call it (lol that sounds cheesy AF) along with the other long time users in this thread. It would suck to have to lose anyone here.

I will probably buy promotional characters if they are Nintendo, but there are some characters I will not buy under any circumstances.

We can’t really afford to lose a lot of active supporters around here, there’s like 4 of us. I expected some Isaac fans to bleed over here when he got announced, but alas, that was not a when but an if.

 

[Ura]

I will probably buy promotional characters if they are Nintendo, but there are some characters I will not buy under any circumstances.

We can’t really afford to lose a lot of active supporters around here, there’s like 4 of us. I expected some Isaac fans to bleed over here when he got announced, but alas, that was not a when but an if.

Yeah I figured a lot of Isaac supporters would have came here in the event of an Isaac reveal but alas that never happened. With the attention on raising awareness on Golden Sun, I don't see the big gain for Andy I thought would have happened in the event of his reveal.

That being said it is a good cause what those guys are trying to do. We got to make ourselves known if we want Golden Sun to return so the big Operation is going to be important. Hopefully it amounts to something provided there isn't already a new Golden Sun in development.

And speaking of which, I think Advance Wars could benefit from a movement like this as well. Both for getting a new Advance Wars on the Switch and having Andy or a new protag in Smash. Even more so because AW has to overcome the "FE barrier" whereas there doesn't exist such a thing for Golden Sun.

 

[SPEN18]

Yeah I figured a lot of Isaac supporters would have came here in the event of an Isaac reveal but alas that never happened. With the attention on raising awareness on Golden Sun, I don't see the big gain for Andy I thought would have happened in the event of his reveal.

That being said it is a good cause what those guys are trying to do. We got to make ourselves known if we want Golden Sun to return so the big Operation is going to be important. Hopefully it amounts to something provided there isn't already a new Golden Sun in development.

And speaking of which, I think Advance Wars could benefit from a movement like this as well. Both for getting a new Advance Wars on the Switch and having Andy or a new protag in Smash. Even more so because AW has to overcome the "FE barrier" whereas there doesn't exist such a thing for Golden Sun.

There are some people that insist that Nintendo doesn't need GS around when they have Xenoblade and FE. But that's just baloney; all three are completely different, as Xeno is an Action RPG, FE is a TBS RPG, and GS is a traditional RPG.

But yeah, AW has a slightly higher barrier in that regard than GS. But lol there's no rule saying you can't have two games in the same genre, especially if their core gameplay mechanics are as different as AW and FE.

 

[Ura]

There are some people that insist that Nintendo doesn't need GS around when they have Xenoblade and FE. But that's just baloney; all three are completely different, as Xeno is an Action RPG, FE is a TBS RPG, and GS is a traditional RPG.

But yeah, AW has a slightly higher barrier in that regard than GS. But lol there's no rule saying you can't have two games in the same genre, especially if their core gameplay mechanics are as different as AW and FE.

Yeah i'd point these people to flipping Mario and DK that are more similar to each other than Advance Wars and Fire Emblem (that in addition to the two playing hardly anything alike aside from being turn-based on a grid). And people actually trying to argue that Golden Sun can't exist with Xenoblade? Oh well I wonder what all those RPG's not named Xenoblade are doing on the Switch lol. It's funny to hear the things some people say.

 

[DNeon]

just having him in the game as a PC would be pretty much enough for me to be satisfied with him. Sure, I might have a couple gripes with his potential moveset but I wouldn't complain; generally, I trust Sakurai to do a good job with representing a character. Even if he was trash tier and felt weird to play I would still use him and love him in the game (besides, even if he plays horrible I could still beat my casual friends with him). The same goes for Andy. Just having these characters and series get proper representation is the attraction; again, I don't think Sakurai would even come close to screwing them up, but even if he did, at least they're represented.

You can make every swordfighter ever a Marth clone, I’d still be excited if I think the character deserves to be in the game.

...but this is where I get so damn confused...If how they play doesn't matter to you, why do you care so much if they're an AT or a PC?

Like, literally what's the difference?

As far as I can tell it's just some self-attributed importance to the role that you think being 'ranked' as worthy of playable makes it better for them to be there than to be an AT, which makes no sense from so many examples;

1. The typical 'WTF' pick, they're labelled that cos they make no sense being 'ranked' among the rest so how can one consider being a PC a matter of 'rank'
2. The representation of bosses that can't be accurately turned into PCs, don't get me wrong I love that Ridley and K Rool have been implemented like they have after so long not being considered, but then you get characters like Whispy Woods who really can't be put in no matter how iconic to Kirby, or Rathalos who's so important in MH, or Mother Brain who's so important to the classic Metroids. They still rank among hte most important, especially within their game series but we all acknowledge that some things just aren't going to be a fighter
3. Games that have too little to go by/have a singular gimmick but are still important. I'm a Bomberman stan so I absolutely believe that with all the games and gadgets he's had there's plenty to have a proper moveset but I understand that his AT is incredibly accurate to what the games feel like. Same with Brain Age or Nintendogs, those were MASSIVE sellers for the DS and important for the spread of gaming and games consoles to the mainstream audience, but they're not going to be fighters.

So if gameplay doesn't matter then why does the "rank" of AT vs PC matter so much when it's clear that the "rank" of a series isn't going to always line up with that.

Like I said, as far as I can tell it's people making the problem for themselves by attributing their own importance to being playable, which really doesn't line up with what you're saying about the importance being that the series is present and represented.

Dude I specifically mentioned that I don't mind what others do. What people choose to do with their money is no business of mine.

And I never complained that you were. My issue was the page of nothing but negativity about things we know nothing about, and the above 'complaining about the mere idea of a character' because of how thay add up against the people you'd prefer when that's not how it works.

Movesets be damned, i'm not going to buy promotional [...] I did the same thing with

I will probably buy promotional characters if they are Nintendo, but there are some characters I will not buy under any circumstances.

...What does Bayo have to do with that...

And I mean, do what you want with your money but it seems weird to me that an ideology (that you'd rather have somebody else in the game than the one that was picked for whatever reason) is going to prohibit you from having fun with that character. Like fair enough, the base roster is enough to satisfy you then go for it but then that's shifting the argument away from "why I made the decision" to "I don't mind missing out", but if you're doing it on such a...¿subjective? (not sure if that's right but...) principle it just seems weird to force yourself to miss out on something based on your own preferences.

That being said of course, i'd never want you to leave this thread because you've been here since Ultimate got announced and been apart the "Advance Wars gang" as I like to call it (lol that sounds cheesy AF) along with the other long time users in this thread. It would suck to have to lose anyone here.

Well cheers, I'm glad not to leave but I just hate the seeming necessity on the internet for a possitive thing (We like X) to have to turn into a negative thing (But I hate Y). I'll always be willing to support Andy and theories about future Wars game, and sure I'll empathise with the Isaac fans too. I just really don't like needless, and somewhat baseless, negativity.

Ok, so with that off my chest.....

There are some people that insist that Nintendo doesn't need GS around when they have Xenoblade and FE. But that's just baloney; all three are completely different, as Xeno is an Action RPG, FE is a TBS RPG, and GS is a traditional RPG.

In agree but unfortunately Nintendo doesn't have a great track record in that department, what with the gameplay shift of the Paper Mario series because they didn'tthink they needed both Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi (not to mention that those are more direct GS competitors gameplay wise).

Yeah i'd point these people to flipping Mario and DK that are more similar to each other than Advance Wars and Fire Emblem

Unfortunatley that's not really a good example considering how much time DK spent on the backbench after Rare was bought up.

Still though. I do think that IS acknowledges the differences between the titles, there's just more money and currently more demand for the FE games. I'm hopeful about what will be happening after Three Houses, since even if they're FE remakes we're heading into the ones that were my introduction, though it's not really a win-win considering how much better of a victory and AW game would be to me.

 

[Ura]

Unfortunatley that's not really a good example considering how much time DK spent on the backbench after Rare was bought up.

Still though. I do think that IS acknowledges the differences between the titles, there's just more money and currently more demand for the FE games. I'm hopeful about what will be happening after Three Houses, since even if they're FE remakes we're heading into the ones that were my introduction, though it's not really a win-win considering how much better of a victory and AW game would be to me.

Well DK still came back not to mention it never left. Just that it went through a decade of crappy games on the Gamecube before it finally got a good installment in Returns lol.

There's more money in FE only because that was the series they took a chance on. Granted Advance Wars didn't have the opportunity FE did with Awakening (launching at the right time in the 3DS's life and what have you). Both series were on the decline in the late 2000's so I think comparisons sometimes aren't justified.

I'm kinda hopeful for a new Advance Wars at E3 2019 but the cynical side of me is telling me that it's probably going to be another FE game announced instead. Hope i'm wrong here.

And lets just drop that discussion from before. Nothing good will come out of it.

 

[GoodGrief741]

...but this is where I get so damn confused...If how they play doesn't matter to you, why do you care so much if they're an AT or a PC?

Like, literally what's the difference?

As far as I can tell it's just some self-attributed importance to the role that you think being 'ranked' as worthy of playable makes it better for them to be there than to be an AT, which makes no sense from so many examples;

1. The typical 'WTF' pick, they're labelled that cos they make no sense being 'ranked' among the rest so how can one consider being a PC a matter of 'rank'
2. The representation of bosses that can't be accurately turned into PCs, don't get me wrong I love that Ridley and K Rool have been implemented like they have after so long not being considered, but then you get characters like Whispy Woods who really can't be put in no matter how iconic to Kirby, or Rathalos who's so important in MH, or Mother Brain who's so important to the classic Metroids. They still rank among hte most important, especially within their game series but we all acknowledge that some things just aren't going to be a fighter
3. Games that have too little to go by/have a singular gimmick but are still important. I'm a Bomberman stan so I absolutely believe that with all the games and gadgets he's had there's plenty to have a proper moveset but I understand that his AT is incredibly accurate to what the games feel like. Same with Brain Age or Nintendogs, those were MASSIVE sellers for the DS and important for the spread of gaming and games consoles to the mainstream audience, but they're not going to be fighters.

So if gameplay doesn't matter then why does the "rank" of AT vs PC matter so much when it's clear that the "rank" of a series isn't going to always line up with that.

Like I said, as far as I can tell it's people making the problem for themselves by attributing their own importance to being playable, which really doesn't line up with what you're saying about the importance being that the series is present and represented.



And I never complained that you were. My issue was the page of nothing but negativity about things we know nothing about, and the above 'complaining about the mere idea of a character' because of how thay add up against the people you'd prefer when that's not how it works.




...What does Bayo have to do with that...

And I mean, do what you want with your money but it seems weird to me that an ideology (that you'd rather have somebody else in the game than the one that was picked for whatever reason) is going to prohibit you from having fun with that character. Like fair enough, the base roster is enough to satisfy you then go for it but then that's shifting the argument away from "why I made the decision" to "I don't mind missing out", but if you're doing it on such a...¿subjective? (not sure if that's right but...) principle it just seems weird to force yourself to miss out on something based on your own preferences.



Well cheers, I'm glad not to leave but I just hate the seeming necessity on the internet for a possitive thing (We like X) to have to turn into a negative thing (But I hate Y). I'll always be willing to support Andy and theories about future Wars game, and sure I'll empathise with the Isaac fans too. I just really don't like needless, and somewhat baseless, negativity.

Ok, so with that off my chest.....




In agree but unfortunately Nintendo doesn't have a great track record in that department, what with the gameplay shift of the Paper Mario series because they didn'tthink they needed both Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi (not to mention that those are more direct GS competitors gameplay wise).



Unfortunatley that's not really a good example considering how much time DK spent on the backbench after Rare was bought up.

Still though. I do think that IS acknowledges the differences between the titles, there's just more money and currently more demand for the FE games. I'm hopeful about what will be happening after Three Houses, since even if they're FE remakes we're heading into the ones that were my introduction, though it's not really a win-win considering how much better of a victory and AW game would be to me.

For what it’s worth, the difference between a playable character and an Assist Trophy is... pretty much everything.

First, there’s the fact that you can play as them! The most important part of an interactive medium as are video games.

Then there’s the fact that playable characters get represented more than Assist Trophies. Characters have many moves, while Assist Trophies have fewer. Look at, say, Takamaru, a character that could definitely be playable: while in his original game he has lots of skills, including becoming invisible, lightning and fire attacks, as an AT he throws projectiles and slashes with a sword. On the flipside, look at Captain Falcon: while in his original game, he drives, in Smash he has tons of abilities and moves that show off his power and personality.

Finally, playable characters just get a higher degree of representation beyond the character itself. Characters, especially characters from new (unrepresented) series, come with stages, music, items, Assist Trophies, regular trophies/stickers/Spirits, and they get to show up in stuff like story cutscenes and awesome CGI trailers. It’s not an exaggeration to say they get deluxe treatment.

As for DLC, I always say vote with your wallet. At the end of the day people value different things. Sure, I could buy something I heavily dislike because at the end of the day it’s fun, but personally I have more than enough fun in my life. I’d rather not pay and hopefully, if a ton of people act like me, then the next product can be something that I want. That’s just how businesses work, no harm in acknowledging it.

 

[Ura]

As for DLC, I always say vote with your wallet.

I said I wanted to drop the subject but I think this is an important thing to remember. If you're not satisfied with something, just don't bother at all. Everyone has the ability to vote with their wallet and have their say.

 

[SPEN18]

For what it’s worth, the difference between a playable character and an Assist Trophy is... pretty much everything.

First, there’s the fact that you can play as them! The most important part of an interactive medium as are video games.

Then there’s the fact that playable characters get represented more than Assist Trophies. Characters have many moves, while Assist Trophies have fewer. Look at, say, Takamaru, a character that could definitely be playable: while in his original game he has lots of skills, including becoming invisible, lightning and fire attacks, as an AT he throws projectiles and slashes with a sword. On the flipside, look at Captain Falcon: while in his original game, he drives, in Smash he has tons of abilities and moves that show off his power and personality.

Finally, playable characters just get a higher degree of representation beyond the character itself. Characters, especially characters from new (unrepresented) series, come with stages, music, items, Assist Trophies, regular trophies/stickers/Spirits, and they get to show up in stuff like story cutscenes and awesome CGI trailers. It’s not an exaggeration to say they get deluxe treatment.

Yeah, this was really well explained. Assists are an honor and an acknowledgement, sure, but not nearly as much as being a playable character, especially when that character would be representing their entire game series. When kids play these games, they might think an Assist Trophy is cool, but it isn't nearly at the same level of attachment as a character they can play as. There's no denying that each new character is treated as a special addition to the game with way more publicity than ATs. I doubt so many people would have tried out Mother if Ness was just a Trophy or an AT.

ike, literally what's the difference?

As far as I can tell it's just some self-attributed importance to the role that you think being 'ranked' as worthy of playable makes it better for them to be there than to be an AT, which makes no sense from so many examples;

1. The typical 'WTF' pick, they're labelled that cos they make no sense being 'ranked' among the rest so how can one consider being a PC a matter of 'rank'
2. The representation of bosses that can't be accurately turned into PCs, don't get me wrong I love that Ridley and K Rool have been implemented like they have after so long not being considered, but then you get characters like Whispy Woods who really can't be put in no matter how iconic to Kirby, or Rathalos who's so important in MH, or Mother Brain who's so important to the classic Metroids. They still rank among hte most important, especially within their game series but we all acknowledge that some things just aren't going to be a fighter
3. Games that have too little to go by/have a singular gimmick but are still important. I'm a Bomberman stan so I absolutely believe that with all the games and gadgets he's had there's plenty to have a proper moveset but I understand that his AT is incredibly accurate to what the games feel like. Same with Brain Age or Nintendogs, those were MASSIVE sellers for the DS and important for the spread of gaming and games consoles to the mainstream audience, but they're not going to be fighters.

So if gameplay doesn't matter then why does the "rank" of AT vs PC matter so much when it's clear that the "rank" of a series isn't going to always line up with that.

I suppose I could argue against the three points there, but as Ura said we clearly disagree on this and continuing just won't help.

I guess just as a general point, just because "rank" doesn't always line up with level of representation doesn't mean it shouldn't when it can, if that makes sense.

But yeah, certainly no hard feelings. We're not trying to be negative just for the sake of it, just getting our opinions out on what we think of the game and what we're expecting for DLC.

At least we got some real discussion going on here lol.

 

[Ura]

Yeah, this was really well explained. Assists are an honor and an acknowledgement, sure, but not nearly as much as being a playable character, especially when that character would be representing their entire game series. When kids play these games, they might think an Assist Trophy is cool, but it isn't nearly at the same level of attachment as a character they can play as. There's no denying that each new character is treated as a special addition to the game with way more publicity than ATs. I doubt so many people would have tried out Mother if Ness was just a Trophy or an AT.

In some cases i'd argue having an AT is better than nothing. Like the characters who come from very obscure franchises like the really retro ones who would never stand a chance at being playable.

For others like Isaac, Shadow, Bomberman, Shovel Knight, and Krystal (among others), it might feel like a tease to have them in the game but not playable. I mean I think it's better than nothing and there's nothing outright saying they can't be added in as DLC later on (at least in theory) but people who want those characters are going to feel let down. To each their own I think.

Personally, I just wish there was a mode where you got to play as an Assist Trophy somehow. That'd be really neat lol.