Orange Star's Hyperactive Whiz Kid! - Andy For Smash Ultimate! We'll Live To Fight Another Day...

[Ura]

We don't know everything, but i'm like to believe that it's Wayforward who asked to use Advance Wars IP to Nintendo first, and not the opposite. Thinking like that would insinuate that AW got another chance thanks to WF's will first.

Could be possible but I think it's more likely that Nintendo contacted them to remake the game. Seeing as there seems to be an initiative in that company to revive their old franchises on the Switch.

 

[PurpleStuff5]

Sure, those people exist that degrade 1st party characters of any kind or even lower-level 3rd party characters. I'm just saying Advance Wars has it's historical impact and it's critical acclaim attached to it that most people would respect it's inclusion. And should Re-Boot Camp do well sales-wise, it's inclusion would be even more justified by even the semi-casual Smash Bros audience.

I think it has a lot more to do than "just missing out". If people choose to skip out or are turned away by the art style or price tag, that's very bad for this franchise. If this series has any hope for the future, it needs to make an impact and failing to do so will result in a negative outcome for this franchise, not unlike what happened to Advance Wars post-Days of Ruin. With that in mind, the situation is rather egregious and also kinda stressful to think about. Nintendo not marketing this game to the degree it needs to be marketed is worrisome. Despite this, I do think the remakes will sell decently enough but quite honestly, "decent" isn't going to be enough if we're going to get higher-budget sequels and entries in this franchise that aren't excluded from one region in the world.
Sure sure, there's Metroid Dread and all but it's not encouraging when the last time we heard either Nintendo or WayForward talk about Advance Wars was back in June. It's October now and we're like 8 weeks from this game releasing. Reminder tweets about this game in the months after E3 as well as character overview tweets would have been very welcome (also keeping the game in the public's eye).

IMO, it's crucial that this game does well in Japan. It's the same reason why this series went on hiatus for 14 years after Days of Ruin. Just relying on NA/EU sales isn't going to cut it. If you're not successful in one part of the world, you get low-billing and are eventually made to be an afterthought. It's the reason why franchises that do well in Japan but not so much in the West are given higher billing. Without at least a measure of success over there, this franchise will begin a slow decline to being dormant for another 15 years or so.

And like, why even bother remaking a game with the idea that this is supposed to test the waters for future releases and omit it from your domestic market? That's so absurd that Nintendo is making their decision to omit this game from Japan based on the commercial performance of Dual Strike 16 years ago. So much has changed then and it's a different market from what it was before. Hell, it's almost like if Nintendo decided to keep FE Japan-only after FE12 because of how FE11 performed. They would have missed out on the Western boom this franchise had with Awakening because of their pre-conceived notions of how well a franchise could sell in one part of the world. Nintendo has to at least be willing to give Advance Wars a chance to succeed in the East and have a similar effect for that market. Instead, they opted to not even try and that's very disheartening. Of course, things could change yeah and i'm really hoping for that announcement in the next week or two (foolishly perhaps
I think that's another problem. I really wish Nintendo was willing to put more money in this project and give it to a studio like Capcom instead. No disrespect to WayForward but I feel like they would have handled this a lot better with a bigger budget game as well. Like, imagine this remake but in the artstyle of Ace Attorney, It would have been the perfect match and would have greatly increased it's appeal for the Japanese market while still appeal to the Western market. That was the right way to go, IMO.

Im sorry but if it was CRUCIAL for Nintendo to market this game to a Japanese audience for them to consider it a success then that's what they would be doing. The very fact that they don't feel the need to market it there indicates that it's not necessary for them. And the fact that they've given the game to a smaller studio indicates that if what you're saying is true, and the series has a more limited appeal to the west, then they can support it by investing less in a studio like Intelligent Systems.

Also I know you're saying 8 weeks but thats really 2 while months and they generally dont market that far ahead for most of their games. Trust, Nintendo wants the things they invest money and resources in to do well so they make a profit. I feel like you're positing a scenario in which Nintendo doesn't want/care for their game to do well which just doesn't make sense. They know better than anyone the margins they want for the game and the audiences they want to target to hit them.

I get the worry, I would like this game to do well so we get more in the future and so the franchise can grow and evolve but I feel like there's a bit of Doomerism in these complaints when, in my mind, the very fact that they even want to resurrect the game is cause for celebration and an indication that Nintendo WANTS this game to do well. Maybe the series will never reach the heights of Fire Emblem or even Smash representation (and I dont know if id want the consequences that come with it: i.e Fire Emblem Waifu creep) and perhaps it can flourish in the hands of a company like WayForward. Perhaps from their the appeal of the series can grow in ways we have no way of knowing yet.

EDIT: I think the fundamental disagreement here is that you want AW to become a much bigger franchise which I didn't quite pick up on when I posted. While i dont even know if I want AW to go in that direction (f.e I much prefer the lack of a seriousTM story in AW2 than that of Days of Ruin which totally abandoned the charm of the franchise to just have a generic JRPG story tacked on IMO) i think AW becoming a huge success is a long term goal, not a short term one, and I think expecting/hoping for that when they're just now looking to reinvest in the franchise is just gonna lead to frustration.

 

[amageish]

Well, that's a big disconnect for me i'm sorry. Because this series being stagnant existing in the same niche it was in the GBA-era is a complete turn-off for me. It's been my dream for years for Advance Wars to become a lot more popular in the gaming mainstream and for people to take notice of this franchise. I've always wanted Advance Wars to have it's own FE Awakening moment where it breaks out of it's niche and it's audience is expanded to just people who enjoy playing games in general. Because as is, it only exists in a certain niche and I really, really hate that it doesn't get it's proper recognition from the wider gaming audience. AW deserves to be up there with the likes of Metroid as a franchise your average joe or at least someone with an interest in gaming can easily recognize it.

It doesn't even need to be 1:1 with Three Houses. Like, give Advance Wars it's own stylistic design that sets itself apart from FE. Like it could still be more cartoony and lighthearted compared to it's sister series but still having a bigger budget and emphasis on it's story, characters, setting, etc. I mean hey, for as much flak Days of Ruin gets it at least had the right idea in mind. Having a more story based Advance Wars and having people interested not only in it's gameplay mechanics but also it's characters it what it really needs. And with that, a better looking game to get people interested even if they were never interested in Advance Wars. Think something like Days of Ruin but not as dark and on a bigger scale. That's what new Advance Wars should be, IMO.

Sure, WayForward has published games with appeal to that region which makes it even more crazy that Nintendo would omit releasing the game over there. I just can't agree with the approach Nintendo has taken with these remakes and I hope a new entry in this franchise expands it's scope.

Yeah, a more mainstream AW would be nice to see, but I think that focusing on good online, strong multiplayer, and a good variety of CO options could lead to a more mainstream AW - just with it embracing the strategy game community, while FE got the JRPG community. Wargroove broke even in 3 days. There is demand for this kind of game out there.

We don't know everything, but i'm like to believe that it's Wayforward who asked to use Advance Wars IP to Nintendo first, and not the opposite. Thinking like that would insinuate that AW got another chance thanks to WF's will first.

I'm going to guess it was likely a little bit of column A and a little bit of column B, like how Famicom Detective Club was a result of one particular Nintendo higher-up suggesting MAGES could make a game for them and MAGES taking the invitative to build a FDC remake demo/pitch.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I get the worry, I would like this game to do well so we get more in the future and so the franchise can grow and evolve but I feel like there's a bit of Doomerism in these complaints when, in my mind, the very fact that they even want to resurrect the game is cause for celebration and an indication that Nintendo WANTS this game to do well.

speaking of doom

Doom's 2016 reboot itself was poorly marketed, focusing on the multiplayer and holding back copies from reviewers, and requiring word of mouth to tell people that its single player campaign was great. That...well, worked out. It probably helps that Doom already was more successful than the Wars series had been, but its reboot still needed word of mouth to tell people it was good regardless.

 

[PurpleStuff5]

speaking of doom

Doom's 2016 reboot itself was poorly marketed, focusing on the multiplayer and holding back copies from reviewers, and requiring word of mouth to tell people that its single player campaign was great. That...well, worked out. It probably helps that Doom already was more successful than the Wars series had been, but its reboot still needed word of mouth to tell people it was good regardless.

Haha, I mean doom is certainly warranted at times, and if we get to that point with AW i will certainly be concerned. I just don't think we're there yet with AW

 

[Ura]

Im sorry but if it was CRUCIAL for Nintendo to market this game to a Japanese audience for them to consider it a success then that's what they would be doing. The very fact that they don't feel the need to market it there indicates that it's not necessary for them. And the fact that they've given the game to a smaller studio indicates that if what you're saying is true, and the series has a more limited appeal to the west, then they can support it by investing less in a studio like Intelligent Systems.

Also I know you're saying 8 weeks but thats really 2 while months and they generally dont market that far ahead for most of their games. Trust, Nintendo wants the things they invest money and resources in to do well so they make a profit. I feel like you're positing a scenario in which Nintendo doesn't want/care for their game to do well which just doesn't make sense. They know better than anyone the margins they want for the game and the audiences they want to target to hit them.

I get the worry, I would like this game to do well so we get more in the future and so the franchise can grow and evolve but I feel like there's a bit of Doomerism in these complaints when, in my mind, the very fact that they even want to resurrect the game is cause for celebration and an indication that Nintendo WANTS this game to do well. Maybe the series will never reach the heights of Fire Emblem or even Smash representation (and I dont know if id want the consequences that come with it: i.e Fire Emblem Waifu creep) and perhaps it can flourish in the hands of a company like WayForward. Perhaps from their the appeal of the series can grow in ways we have no way of knowing yet.

EDIT: I think the fundamental disagreement here is that you want AW to become a much bigger franchise which I didn't quite pick up on when I posted. While i dont even know if I want AW to go in that direction (f.e I much prefer the lack of a seriousTM story in AW2 than that of Days of Ruin which totally abandoned the charm of the franchise to just have a generic JRPG story tacked on IMO) i think AW becoming a huge success is a long term goal, not a short term one, and I think expecting/hoping for that when they're just now looking to reinvest in the franchise is just gonna lead to frustration.

Look, the fact of the matter is that franchises not popular in Japan (especially ones owned by Nintendo themselves) are going to receive 2nd class citizen treatment. It's just a fact unless you're super popular like Zelda or Metroid (and even then, both those series have started to become popular over there in recent times). So for Advance Wars to double down on it's Western popularity (and even then it's not so great), it puts itself at an inherent disadvantage relative to the other franchises with worldwide appeal. I mean this not only in the context of being a smaller franchise but also when it comes to being selected for Smash Bros. Sakurai wants the characters he chooses to be popular around the world. Unless you're a Hero or Terry, it's a tough order for that to happen if the domestic market you sell to doesn't even get Advance Wars. That's really REALLY bad. Nintendo might not feel the need to do it but then that's a huge double standard considering that they literally localized FDC in the West this year. Why is it so hard for them to localize AW over there if they can do the same with a game that's much more text-heavy? They literally have nothing to lose at least attempting a release. Dual Strike was 16 years ago ffs.

That's fine an all what you're saying about their marketing strategy but i'll believe it when I see it. And right now, it doesn't inspire much confidence. Perhaps that will change is the weeks to come but count me an unimpressed so far.

Call it "doomerism" if you so wish but i'm just going to voice my concern/displeasure with the way this is being handled. Ideally, I wouldn't have omitted this game from one major region of the world and it's not much to ask for. I'm not expecting this game to sell the way Three Houses did but this game could do a lot better than what it did during the GBA days (by that, I mean like 1-1.5 million to start with). Like I mentioned before, i'm not saying I want this series to be 1:1 with FE. I would still want AW to be more lighthearted compared to it's sister series even if the plot can be more serious at times. Like the story/character elements from Days of Ruin only without the overly dark tone. That's what the series needs to be to reach the next level. Obviously, that's not happening overnight but it can begin the process with this remake and eventually build it's way up. That way come the next Smash, Advance Wars in prime position to get a playable character and isn't relegated to being an AT again (which is what I fear will end up happening if the game doesn't sell well). That's basically why the series needs to focus on having a worldwide appeal and not doubling down on it's Western appeal (or whatever appeal it currently has).

Yeah, a more mainstream AW would be nice to see, but I think that focusing on good online, strong multiplayer, and a good variety of CO options could lead to a more mainstream AW - just with it embracing the strategy game community, while FE got the JRPG community. Wargroove broke even in 3 days. There is demand for this kind of game out there.

Sure sure but at the same time, i'd like there to be more of an emphasis on it's story and characters. DoR had the right idea with this, just not the right setting and tone lol. It's possible to have both a good story and a strategy game that's compelling.

 

[Ura]

So I know i've been talking about a lot of negative in regards to this series as of late and I do want to apologize for perhaps going on a tangent too much with Re-Boot Camp.

To change the subject to something more positive, while the wait for the next Smash might be 5 years or so, there's a good chance we can see our boy in Super Smash Flash 2 in the interim. It's been common knowledge in this thread that about 4-5 characters in SSF2 were leaked around 2018-2019 and Andy was one of them. Additionally, the parody account handled by McLeodGaming themselves made this tweet after the reveal of Re-Boot Camp.

hey @ ssf2 devs
advance wars: re-boot camp looks pretty cool
you know how you have like,
isaac and chibi-robo as the "obscure gba/gcn-era duo"
you wanna uh
make that into a holy trinity

— McLeodGardening💥 (@McLeodGarning) June 16, 2021

Basically, it's them not so subtly teasing that the devs plan on adding an Advance Wars character to the game (also mentioning Golden Sun & Chibi-Robo which already have a playable character in game).

So silver linings I suppose. When exactly that reveal goes down I have no idea but it's something to look forward to in the future. Also, maybe Andy's inclusion in SSF2 serves as a pre-cursor to his reveal in the next Smash game? After all, some characters from SSF end up getting in to the official Smash after their reveal (here's looking at you ).

 

[HYRULESHERO42]

The holy trinity - brilliant, I love it

 

[Ura]

So I don't know if y'all have seen this but there's a poll for people's most wanted 1st party characters. Please consider voting Andy in this poll, we gotta show our support for our wrench boy!

Poll

The holy trinity - brilliant, I love it

IMO, the GBA holy trinity is Andy, Isaac, & Lyn. Here's hoping Lyn gets in to SSF2 so we can have all three in the game.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Looks like two ex-members of the Chucklefish folk who did Wargroove went on to do the Pokémon/Digimon-alike Cassette Beasts.

https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2...using-rpg-cassette-beasts-is-coming-to-switch

 

[amageish]

Looks like two ex-members of the Chucklefish folk who did Wargroove went on to do the Pokémon/Digimon-alike Cassette Beasts.

https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2...using-rpg-cassette-beasts-is-coming-to-switch

Wow, it feels like a lot of Chucklefish people have been stepping away from the company lately... That game looks solid though! Dandylion is a very good name for a monster.

 

[HYRULESHERO42]

Think there will be a Re-Boot Camp thread on another forum to continue our little shindig here?

 

[Ura]

Think there will be a Re-Boot Camp thread on another forum to continue our little shindig here?

Yeah i'm thinking about starting an Advance Wars thread over on the Nintenzone part of this website. I'll tag whoever is interested once that happens.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

Yeah i'm thinking about starting an Advance Wars thread over on the Nintenzone part of this website. I'll tag whoever is interested once that happens.

I'd love to be a part of it. Witnessing your passion for the Advance Wars series over the past three years has been really great to see. Would love to still be part of the new thread and see some familiar faces still spreading the love

 

[HYRULESHERO42]

Re-boot camp will be my first foray into the series, I’m very excited and will probably have dumb nooby questions for you all

 

[amageish]

Re-boot camp will be my first foray into the series, I’m very excited and will probably have dumb nooby questions for you all

Well, we look forward to heading those questions haha

 

[Ura]

I'd love to be a part of it. Witnessing your passion for the Advance Wars series over the past three years has been really great to see. Would love to still be part of the new thread and see some familiar faces still spreading the love

Hey that goes both ways buddy! Your Twitter account for Golden Sun was what inspired me to run Operation Warzone. When the time comes for Golden Sun to be remade (which it will either next year or the year after) i'll be more than happy to join said thread if you run it.

Re-boot camp will be my first foray into the series, I’m very excited and will probably have dumb nooby questions for you all

Oh no worries on that end. Re-Boot Camp is likely to be everyone's first going at this series. Given the Switch install base, I wouldn't be surprised if it was double what the GBA originals had.

Myself personally, I started with Advance Wars in 2004. I had no idea how to do much of anything (and really you would expect that from a 9 year old lol) but I got the hang of it the more I played the game. Not that i'm some sort of expert now (because i'm not good VS other human players lol).

 

[Ura]

Real quick before this thread closes down, I want to thank everyone who took the time to post here and what have you.

Compared to where we were when this thread opened up March 2017, Advance Wars' prospects are looking better 4 and a half years later. We went from the infamous "We can't make a new AW without relationships" comment to getting a remake of the GBA classics in just over a month. I would say that's a major improvement over what we had before (which was a whole lot of nothing mind you) so much so that Advance Wars got treated pretty bad when it came to Smash Ultimate representation. Recall back in November 2018 when we found out that the Assist Trophy was cut and that there was no Mii Costume added unlike the other smaller franchises that got one. I think we're on track to have better representation for the series come the next Smash Bros game. Hopefully, that entails a playable character and not something like just being an Assist Trophy or Stage (which is the most important aspect IMO).

That being said, I want to thank everyone, whether you've been here for years or recently started posting here. Y'all made the AW drought more manageable at a time when it was really frustrating being gone for so long. I hope to see you all in the Advance Wars: Re-Boot Camp I intend to create soon and years down the line, in the Smash 6 Andy support thread. Thanks once again for everything!

GoodGrief741 DNeon HYRULESHERO42 Isaac: Venus Adept SPEN18 amageish smashkirby C chocolatejr9 KirbyWorshipper2465 G Guynamednelson RamOne MAtgSy Pinguino21v Dorayaki TheTuninator clearandsweet Dr. Richie Mushroomguy12 Sunredo DarkChaosGames

And anyone else that I missed! Thank you all so much!