Ussi
Smash Legend
i can shield DI the laser in halberd....
I vote diddy's nana's or everything lol. diddy is more important to know than G&W IMO
I vote diddy's nana's or everything lol. diddy is more important to know than G&W IMO
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Opponent Move Analysis
- Thread starter Pikabunz
- Start date
KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
The laser on Halberd is the worst example...... you can clearly see it coming, and it's out forever.
In a real match, where you have to rely on reaction time & a shorter window to shield DI, I don't see anybody pulling it off consistently enough to make it a solid strategy against G&W's bair. At least not yet, or -- like I said -- people would be doing it in tourney. (Didn't see anybody do it vs. Penta's G&W or my Zelda this weekend, juuuuust sayin.)
Until then, let's try to come up with more realistic ways for dealing with his bair plz.
EDIT: Also, @Prime: Change the title.
In a real match, where you have to rely on reaction time & a shorter window to shield DI, I don't see anybody pulling it off consistently enough to make it a solid strategy against G&W's bair. At least not yet, or -- like I said -- people would be doing it in tourney. (Didn't see anybody do it vs. Penta's G&W or my Zelda this weekend, juuuuust sayin.)
Until then, let's try to come up with more realistic ways for dealing with his bair plz.
EDIT: Also, @Prime: Change the title.
Pikabunz
Smash Hero
Didn't know we actually moved on.
KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
Oh, sorry. >< People started discussing it already, so we might as well. =X
*Cam*
Smash Lord
I agree with this, but I would also like to add that we can just run under a G&W that starts his bairs too high up.
KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
I just shield it & hope it doesn't poke or run/jump out of the way tbh.
I dunno if there's much more Pika can do -- reliably -- with such a garb shield if G&W is spacing correctly.
I dunno if there's much more Pika can do -- reliably -- with such a garb shield if G&W is spacing correctly.
neji32
Smash Lord
cant you trade hits with the Bair with a nicely timed Dsmash? thats wat i always did and if the G&W made the smallest spacing error he would get most of the hits(cause they SDI out)other than that, if you can do a side step Fsmash that usually gets them too...You guys can think about it as how hard it is for us to avoid but spacing the Bair isnt the easiest thing for a G&W if the pika is a Master Baiter. Just saying pikachu has so tricks up his tail for G&W cheap tricks. i always saw this match up even if not our favor
i kinda like to think of GnW as a GnW game wait and bait him out..like in the game wait ..wait now go.
almost like when someone said A sword can kill a hamster Easily..
bait his Bair and his Fair cuz they think your gonna do an attack, shield or just get hit ,not run then stop.
but am a scrub, baiting GnHO can help alot in this MU yall prob know that tho.
OH and Diddys Forward smash if you DI towards him you will go through him to his back side missing the 2nd hit....but yall prob knew that too =S
almost like when someone said A sword can kill a hamster Easily..
bait his Bair and his Fair cuz they think your gonna do an attack, shield or just get hit ,not run then stop.
but am a scrub, baiting GnHO can help alot in this MU yall prob know that tho.
OH and Diddys Forward smash if you DI towards him you will go through him to his back side missing the 2nd hit....but yall prob knew that too =S
*Cam*
Smash Lord
Can't we tjolt him if we see the bair coming?
Zolga Owns
Smash Lord
Bair eats Thunderjolt for breakfast(if spaced right, which any competent GnW player can do).
bigman40
Smash Master
SDI the move.
gallax
Smash Hero
gaws bair is terrible. if its hits u then immediately SDI it and get behind him for a free hit. there is also a thread that discusses why his bair is a bad move. lemme go get it. maybe prime can do some testing or we can just reasno out what moves beat it.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=266988
Pikachu's dash attack is a terrible move, so you mean to tell me gdubs bair = pikachu dash attack? Not buying it, and that video in the link you gave does absolutely nothing to prove why the attack is so "terrible."
Ussi
Smash Legend
Terrible example in the video, bair was never spaced...
Stealth Raptor
Smash Legend
didnt i say that 5 pages ago when the exact same thread was brought up? LOL
Ussi
Smash Legend
KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
I think we've covered just about everything we can about G&W's bair..... @Prime: maybe it's time to move on?
Also, @mercy: Pika's dash attack isn't a terrible move. It's one of his worst, and I wouldn't say it's good, but it's very underrated.
Also, @mercy: Pika's dash attack isn't a terrible move. It's one of his worst, and I wouldn't say it's good, but it's very underrated.
Pikabunz
Smash Hero
Sorry that I've been lazy with this. What move you guys wanna do next?
Ussi
Smash Legend
Snake's ftilt?
Pikabunz
Smash Hero
That's a good one. Everyone else ok with that?
Leaf.
Gets up to speed!
Snake's f-tilt is good.
Are their any moves that can come out fast enough if we shielded the first hit?
Are their any moves that can come out fast enough if we shielded the first hit?
M15t3R E
Smash Master
Just like Link.
Yes, I think 95% of smashers don't know what to do about it.
Stealth Raptor
Smash Legend
if we psheild i believe so, but any smart snake will know not to hit with the second hit if he wiffs the first one
The Truth!
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2009
- Messages
- 991
Wait, I dont think GW's bair was covered properly because we never had any frame data on it.
KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
Straight from their frame data thread:
The Truth!
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2009
- Messages
- 991
Itd be cool if someone could test if an attack will hit GW if its spaced correctly in the air. The thread linked showed what attacks for lots of other characters could reach, but we itd be nice to know for pika. Same with the grounded hitbox.
Pikabunz
Smash Hero
Added shield advantage tables on the OP. I only have ground attacks for now since getting shield advantage for aerials are a bit hard. I hope you guys find this useful.
PZ
Smash Lord
Ftilt3 for mk is positive 24...?
*Cam*
Smash Lord
Metatitan
Smash Master
Is drop shield -> f tilt guaranteed on delayed foward tilt hits? I pull it off pretty consistently
Syko_Lemming
Smash Ace
Can't the MK vary the time between ftilt 1 and ftilt 2?
PZ
Smash Lord
I don't think so cuz he could hit you if he is spacing it correctly and theres almost no way you can ftilt him out of his ftilt unless he uses the 3rd of course.
Don't you already know the answer to this...
Pikabunz
Smash Hero
Oops, that's supposed to be -24 for MK's ftilt3.
You can punish ftilt1 or ftilt2 if you think they're not gonna the combo.
You can punish ftilt1 or ftilt2 if you think they're not gonna the combo.
*Cam*
Smash Lord
Is there enough lag between MK's ftilt 1 or 2 and dtilt to punish?
PZ
Smash Lord
ftilt is faster than dtilt
Syko_Lemming
Smash Ace
linkisthebest123
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2009
- Messages
- 237
I like to down tilt mks after the 3rd hit of f tilt if they are at lower percentages. Can cause tripping which leads to cging etc. For some reason I always trip them when they are at 0% which leads into the cg to 45% or so XD