OnStage Vanishing

[PK Webb]

How do you catch someone with it. It has a slow start up so the opponent has time to block and everything. So is the vanish kill only good for vanish glides??

 

[SinkingHigher]

You slide if you do it while running. You can use this to fakeout, or save start up time. An opponent incoming from above is very susceptible to a Vanish attack.

 

[imdavid]

or when they try to get back onto the stage, it generally works if they aren't expecting it

i caught some g&w's from their dair on the floor, i got a meta using his up-b, but generally vanish glides and vanishes in the air get my kills

 

[psike]

If you are running towards them, nail the up-b and vanish away from them. Generally they will block (expecting a dash attack) and luckily they will usually let off of the sheild about the same time that the startup animation ends and the explosion begins. Mindgames ftw.

 

[Conclusively]

After an opponents laggy attack, you could have a chance to do it. Another thing is Up+B out of shield, which works sometimes, but isn't as reliable. I don't know if it counts, but for edgeguarding, you can Vanish Glide off the stage.

 

[SinkingHigher]

I just thought of another thing. Do you know what ledgewarping is with Zelda?

You can do something similar with Sheik. Run up to them, Vanish and hold towards the ledge. At the right distance, Sheik will appear and then grab the ledge right after. That way if it didn't connect (because they were blocking), you get invincibility frames before they have a chance to counter.

Honestly, any move where lag is involved, you need to anticipate your opponents move. Maybe you just need to play the game more, but sooner or later you'll just kinda know when the time is right.

 

[ddonaldo]

vanish is alot easier to use offstage, your opponent is usually more panicky offstage at high damage and can manuver less.

 

[sniperworm]

It's pretty easy to bait someone into one if they like to come down on top of you.

I catch a lot of G&W's when they bust out their Dair, Bair, Nair, or Fair. Basically I just look for an offensive tendency that my opponent has and when they're going to use it, I try to predict with vanish (works best if the opponent approaches with an aerial that lasts a long time or has landing lag).

I also catch people on sidesteps and spotdodges, but I wouldn't recommend that too much (because you basically are throwing it out and hoping they do something stupid).

 

[TigerWoods]

after a jab combo, vanishing away works sometimes

 

[ynnek123]

try out of shield vs laggy attacks

 

[Villi]

Great for punishing people who sidestep a lot. Same with reflexive shield grabbers. Just run up to them and vanish. Also decent at catching air dodges that end right before they hit the ground and people who will try to hit you with a dair after being launched.

 

[The Great Leon]

at hight percentages its pretty scary. in tourney ive simply done it a few times in quick succession and DI'd away and they never followed. harder, but ive also done it to catch someone on the approach. it has a few invincible frames, so start it early. punishable if you miss.

 

[PK Webb]

Can you take the lag off of the landings after the vanish??

 

[Tristan_win]

Can you take the lag off of the landings after the vanish??

Here you go Web

(Lag-less Landing) http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=167722

 

[JonBeBonanza]

I just want to say that vanishing while on stage is stupid. If you do that, you must have mind blowing mindgames... but that's my opinion. It doesn't work as well as zeldas, in both distance and damage. It can easily be punished, since it doesn't do damage when you re-apper.

Vanish guard however is way too good. I'll get some vids up soon to show what i mean.

PS: Needle cancelling......nuff said.

 

[PK Webb]

thank you tristan win

 

[Tristan_win]

I just want to say that vanishing while on stage is stupid. If you do that, you must have mind blowing mindgames... but that's my opinion. It doesn't work as well as zeldas, in both distance and damage. It can easily be punished, since it doesn't do damage when you re-apper.

Vanish guard however is way too good. I'll get some vids up soon to show what i mean.

PS: Needle cancelling......nuff said.

If you memorize the speed and range of your opponent character attack then in most cases you can very safely use the vanish to attack.

Heck at times I just randomly run up into dash attack range and use my ^B while I hold away. Even if they don't get caught in the explosion I'm still safe.

Of course you should never do this against someone with a very quick projectile/destructive projectile or someone with very quick running speed. In those cases you can try to use it but then there's a chance of getting punished which is always bad.

edit: No problem Web, I enjoy giving out links to my threads ^-^

 

[JonBeBonanza]

If you memorize the speed and range of your opponent character and his attacks in most cases you can very safely use the vanish to attack.

Heck at times I just randomly run up into dash attack range and use my ^B while I hold away. Even if they don't get caught in the explosion I'm still safe.

Of course you should never do this against someone with a very quick projectile/destructive projectile or someone with very quick running speed. In those cases you can try to use it but then there's a chance of getting punished which is always bad.

edit: No problem Web, I enjoy giving out links to my threads ^-^

For attack yes i do it, i meant like in terms of getting away. Like i said vanish guard.... too good.
I never do it on stage as where a zelda would do it, know what i mean. I play alot of sonics so yeah.

 

[Cobra]

Vanish kills are my favorite things ever...I love calling someones movement and Vanishing right where I know they'll be for the kill. some set-ups I use for it :

(Note: these setups are all at High damage, or at least killing damage with Vanish...obviously)

1) Grab , hit hit hit UThrow, jump and Up+B ...use the Vanish's animation to carry you up a little further, to about where they'll be. A lot of time, people think you're going for an aerial, so they air dodge, but the vanish timing is perfect to activate as they are dodging and then explodes when they come out of it.

2) Run Forward, Up+B and back away from them. the most extreme of Vanish mindgames...you just charge them, and since most Brawl player's natural instincts are to shield...they wont attack you, and then odds are the second they think you are "open" (aka your vanish animation) they will attack...allowing your explosion to blow them up.

3) Ledge games. Obviously this is pretty variable, but I've found that when you space yourself form the edge, far enough away to not be hit by an attack and in the range of their roll, so they cant use that, or risk a Smash attack...They'll jump from the ledge...and there's your opportunity. Wait for that exact second that you see the character move and jump and vanish RIGHT where their ledge jump is going to take them (which is about the same for all character.)

4) Moar ledge games. Not a Vanish Glide...but a lot of the time, if you can time an opponent right, you can jump off the ledge and out a bit in order to vanish back to the stage and get a chance at the kill. This forces them to react differently then they thought and can sometimes bait attacks which will ultimate miss during the animation and lead to deathening explosions. Try to aim to be just below and to the right of them when the animation starts.

5) Punishing falling DAirs, or other such attacks. A lot of players can get pretty cocky with their DAirs and other such Falling moves...especially characters like G&W, Toon Link and DeDeDe. Learn the timing of their attacks and when they execute their aerial downthrusts, start your Vanish animation to catch them off guard. This works BEAUTIFULLY vs. DAIr spamming G&W' and Toon Links.

6) Any unexpected chase. Doing ANYTHING and getting them into the air...sometimes hyper-aggression scares people into air dodges. Psych them out! get them in the air and make a mad rush towards them only to Vanish when they think you would attack.

7) ...[Submitted by Tristan_win. I hadn't even thought of that before, nice one!]
Using the vanish as a tech chase. You just run toward a fallen opponent on their back or stomach and just as you enter striking distance of their get up attack you start the vanish. Doing this removes 3 of their options, rolling towards you, standing up, and attacking. They also can't just lay there so your also forcing a response. The best part is even if they roll away you are safe because you just reappear away from them.

...Needless to say if someone start a attack or roll just as or before you get into range then this method goes to hell but it's so much fun tech chasing someone with such a slow move as a vanish. I do it more for laughs then effectiveness since running up and shielding will accomplish the same


...that's my take. Hopefully it helps someone somewhere...

 

[Tristan_win]

For attack yes i do it, i meant like in terms of getting away. Like i said vanish guard.... too good.
I never do it on stage as where a zelda would do it, know what i mean. I play alot of sonics so yeah.

lol yeah, I try hold back on the vanishing against sonics but it's just such a big part of my game now. You can still do it just make sure they can't stop themselves if you going to attempt, also sonic has pretty poor air speed so reappearing up on a platform makes it a bit safer.

~proceeds to read what cobra just wrote~

edit: Nice read cobra, I think the only one you didn't name that I do occasionally is using the vanish as a tech chase.

You just run toward a fallen opponent on their back or stomach and just as you enter striking distance of their get up attack you start the vanish. Doing this removes 3 of their options, rolling towards you, standing up, and attacking. They also can't just lay there so your also forcing a response. The best part is even if they roll away you are safe because you just reappear away from them ^_^

...Needless to say if someone start a attack or roll just as or before you get into range then this method goes to hell but it's so much fun tech chasing someone with such a slow move as a vanish. I do it more for laughs then effectiveness since running up and shielding will accomplish the same

 

[JonBeBonanza]

I should really get those vids up soon. Has some good tricks in there. But yeha upB is too good *looks at sig* ever since i saw that one vid that showed a bunch of tips and tricks i was like "WOAH".

 

[Cobra]

edit: Nice read cobra, I think the only one you didn't name that I do occasionally is using the vanish as a tech chase.

You just run toward a fallen opponent on their back or stomach and just as you enter striking distance of their get up attack you start the vanish. Doing this removes 3 of their options, rolling towards you, standing up, and attacking. They also can't just lay there so your also forcing a response. The best part is even if they roll away you are safe because you just reappear away from them ^_^

...Needless to say if someone start a attack or roll just as or before you get into range then this method goes to hell but it's so much fun tech chasing someone with such a slow move as a vanish. I do it more for laughs then effectiveness since running up and shielding will accomplish the same

Thanks! I added it to the list. hadn't even thought about it before...lol... I just throw needles when they get up :-p

 

[The Great Leon]

cobra has some tasty ideas. i was pretty successful the other day with vanishing aerial approaches. just got to make sure you've got good timing.

 

[PK Webb]

My favorite one is up throw to vanish and of course vanish glide even though thats in the air