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Olly Vids here! Combo Video Teaser Posted!!

shrinkray21

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
724
Location
Brookings, SD
Finally some new vids are going up - I can officially say that I am in the process of my newest combo vid - be a leader - expect a teaser in a week and the newest vid by the end of june!! Be a Leader.

Still looking for critiques!!!

Expect vids against other characters to be up maybe today...

Thank you everyone for watching!! - vids are pretty much in order from newest to oldest

New!!
- Be A Leader Teaser Video
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3lJx2m0I1OA

Just added - Shrink Combo Video - Marth/Olimar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSvMZwuwit8

Here are some Olly vids - take any you want

Team Eb's (Shrink and Nold) vs The Rainbow Club (R1ngo and FireWulf) - will be 5 in total

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGq7Xc8e1LE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QM81dLeStQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQaK5uacUAo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggmC6-Ng1ZI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsAjr6d0V1s

Shrink(Olly) vs Nold(Jigglypuff)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3IOWx8yjY0 - set of 3 matches

Shrink(Olly) vs Ringo(MK)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=olCS7qtQnpE

http://youtube.com/watch?v=sOubPwfh7o0

http://youtube.com/watch?v=82BIPli3f34

http://gameroom.gamebattles.com/view/o3bNHktpPbc.html - set of 3

http://youtube.com/watch?v=-P0iTFRp4C8 - This meta is a tough matchup for me, but I'm starting to figure him out.

http://gameroom.gamebattles.com/view/grY4Ot73Z7c.html - set of 3 matches

Shrink(Olly) vs Nold(Marth)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=1V2jSPEvp0Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ST41TOmQzhQ

Shrink(Olly) vs Nold(Pit) - top video is set of 3 and just posted today 4-16

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBm_gAqJPWI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uceJU8iGrtc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkFZbPuu-HY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwYUtW3tzKk

Shrink(Olly) vs FireWulf(Marth)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiNvJRe1bE8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9DJ39VtF-g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oT27MaiRBG0

Shrink(Olly) vs FireWulf(PT)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wdC0bFaoGI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=est7x2A150I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUmgm7134-A
http://youtube.com/watch?v=GcLlQZGs1A0
 

Fino

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
3,262
Location
nxt to Dphat wit all dem azn biches
Nice, sorry I didn't watch them all but I'll put my brief synopsis on the one's I did.

Marth video 1
AAAARRGGH! There's so many parts where it's like, wow that was really good, and then part where I'm just sitting here like... WHAT IS HE DOING!?! lol. Pretty much against marth, you should be spamming that throw a lot more. Also your pikmin throw. I didn't see much of that going on, and it's really good (even if you don't get any damage) to use because it creates a distraction / sense of frenzy. Anyways, your combos were nice, and I liked your use of the fsmash for edguarding marth. Very useful tactic that I plan to use next time I play against him ;) . Another thing I have to applaud you on is your hyphen smashing, nice use. Another thing I noticed was that you had 1 pikmin left ( a yellow I believe), and marth was already hanging on the edge, and you B^ even though you were obviously out of range even if you had 3 or so. Though in the heat of battle you might not have realized you only had one, in that situation I think it would've been best to take your chances and chuck it at marth to score some avenging damage.

Pit video 2
There's some part where I would've used a dsmash instead of an fsmash. You seem to rely on that move, and, although it's really good, I think your play style will really suffer from diminishing returns if you use it TOO much. D smash comes out just as fast as an fsmash, though lacking the range it has a far better knockback. Another thing that I noticed... you couldn't seem to counter his arrows. Just about everytime he used them I saw you just either sit there and take it, shield, or try to chuck a pikmin at it. Learn the timing of his shot. Pit users typically don't just shoot 1 arrow. lol. You can rolll right through it, and then pull out a shield grab or a smash when you get in range. I like how you completely gimped his B^ though. It feel so sweet when you can do it to someone else. haha.

2nd Marth video 1
Aha!!! I just saw you incorporate the thing I was talking about in the first video, unfortunatly it bit you in the rear when trying to recover. lol. it's all good though. With 3 I wouldn't really do it unless there's no chance of getting back on. Also.... KEEP CHUCKIN' ! lol. When the marth player jumped off the stage to try and get you and you teathered the edge and instantly poped back up... it would be better to just hang there, regurdless of who you're playing. What I would've done it hang there, and then time it so when he tried to B^ me, I would pull up and get a couple invincible frames and let him plumbet to his death.
*side note* I like how you dtilt across the stage when you make a kill... I bust up laughing everytime I see that.. it's a good / hilarious in-your-face move... more so than double taunting.*back to video* Work on your whistle armor... in some situations it's more useful than airdodging b/c you get more frames.

PT video 3
Your spacing against squirtle was really good in the beginning, but not to be nit picky... it wasn't the best quirtle I've seen. Note on Ivysaur: she has a tether recovery just like you... and you know what people do to you b/c of your teather recovery. Yes. So play the game back. The chain grab on ivysaur was good. Charizard seemed to bring out the pain, and he shouldn't really be the one to give you trouble. Shield grab him, and you'll make that lizard your *****. lol.

Well that's it. Sorry I didn't have time to look at all of them,but maybe later. Hope I helped

~Fino
 

shrinkray21

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
724
Location
Brookings, SD
for starters: Thank you very very much for the very useful data - there was much more than I expected so here it goes.

I'm not a HUGE fan of throwing pikmin b/c of the recovery and I prefer face to face (my other main is marth) but I'm trying to get better with it.

Fthrow off the edge is very very very useful against a variety of opponents, give it a shot.

Dtilt across the stage - best Olly "taunt" by far - second best is empty pikmin pluck!

Off the edge - is where I need to improve the most - thanks for the tips - i have some other videos where I get better and actually do it correctly

The PT I was playing was off - he's normally very very solid - but thanks for the tips!!

If you have any vids - I would love to critique them!
 

scalpel

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
341
Location
Hawaii
Switch FC
SW-1322-7073-9341
I think you play an excellent Olimar. :)

I just finished watching your videos. I must say that your Olimar is very, very impressive. Like, I've never seen such an aggressive Olimar be so successful. Great reaction time, too.

I think we can learn a lot from your fighting style. I mean, I can write a paragraph about things that you should have done in those videos. However, as a whole, the decisions you made within the battles were so good that the mistakes that you made can be neglected. I like how you use your down-tilt as a taunt after killing your opponent. However, I think you down-tilt one too many times, making yourself vulnerable when your opponent approaches you while you're still in the cool-down lag of the down-tilt. It's a nice way to taunt because it's an attack, plus you are moving, but the cool-down lag of the down-tilt can be dangerous if you don't stop in time.
 

shrinkray21

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
724
Location
Brookings, SD
I think you play an excellent Olimar. :)

I just finished watching your videos. I must say that your Olimar is very, very impressive. Like, I've never seen such an aggressive Olimar be so successful. Great reaction time, too.

I think we can learn a lot from your fighting style. I mean, I can write a paragraph about things that you should have done in those videos. However, as a whole, the decisions you made within the battles were so good that the mistakes that you made can be neglected. I like how you use your down-tilt as a taunt after killing your opponent. However, I think you down-tilt one too many times, making yourself vulnerable when your opponent approaches you while you're still in the cool-down lag of the down-tilt. It's a nice way to taunt because it's an attack, plus you are moving, but the cool-down lag of the down-tilt can be dangerous if you don't stop in time.
Thank you very much - I'm trying to meld my newer more aggressive playstyle with the older, safer one, but habits are hard to get rid of...

Thanks for the taunt thing - and you are right, however, its so fun to taunt like that, I don't know when to stop :D
 

Fredd

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
119
Location
Just ask!
I`m personally not a huge fan of Olimar`s Pikmin Throw.
Once you throw the Pikmin away, you`re giving the opponent a chance to kill it.
If s/he does kill it, then you must pluck another Pikmin out - potentially pulling out a colour you don`t want.

Overall, I like to agree with the posters here. You do play Olimar pretty well.

Good luck ~
 

shrinkray21

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
724
Location
Brookings, SD
I`m personally not a huge fan of Olimar`s Pikmin Throw.
Once you throw the Pikmin away, you`re giving the opponent a chance to kill it.
If s/he does kill it, then you must pluck another Pikmin out - potentially pulling out a colour you don`t want.

Overall, I like to agree with the posters here. You do play Olimar pretty well.

Good luck ~
Thank you - I've been spending a good chunk of my practice today experimenting with the pikmin throw - there are times when I use it constantly - but I prefer to throw but to stay around 3 pikmin in my hand as often as possible - except white or purple - i throw them asap.
 

scalpel

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
341
Location
Hawaii
Switch FC
SW-1322-7073-9341
Bloody hell! I think Shrink made an awesome discovery!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=est7x2A150I (1:53)

Well, not really a discovery, but he has provided the first video evidence that Olimar's down-smash DOES have an actual sweet spot.

There really IS a sweet-spot in Olimar's down-smash, and this is proof of it! His down-smash did 27% damage on Charizard, using a yellow and purple Pikmin. According to NC-Echo's guide, yellows do 11% and purples do 15% damage. This should add up to 26%, but somehow Shrink's down-smash inflicted 27%!
 

Fredd

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
119
Location
Just ask!
Gazelle, you`re right!

And if you pay attention close enough, you can see and hear Charizard getting electrocuted.
However in the video, the Yellow Pikmin attacks on the left while the Purple Pikmin attacks on the right.

Very interesting.
 

shrinkray21

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
724
Location
Brookings, SD
sweet! Let me check it out and see what happened!!

It appears that if you stand near to i'm assuming a big character - you can be hit with both sides of a down smash - this is visible with many many other characters...hmm...anyone else with other info on it?

P.S. Spaniard - i tell you, habits are hard to break :D
 

TWK?

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 29, 2008
Messages
41
I really like your Olimar's style. I think your melee marth background helps more than hurts you with him, given a similar (although even longer) grab range and the same kind of range on the A attacks. One thing that stuck out to me was how often you used the dsmash, even at times when the opponent was well out of range. If these were wifi matches with lots of lag that you were trying to compensate for, forgive me, but I think a habit of using dsmash in any time of uncertainty is a bad one to form, as it seems to me to be one of his most punishable moves (even though I'm a bit of a glutton for it myself :p). I love your dthrow-fair usage, although I felt as if at certain times after a non-kill up smash you should've used an uair (which I did see in one of your vids). Let me know if you disagree with these suggestions, and maybe I could get some Olimar vids up for you to help me with :). Keep on pluckin'!
 

shrinkray21

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
724
Location
Brookings, SD
I really like your Olimar's style. I think your melee marth background helps more than hurts you with him, given a similar (although even longer) grab range and the same kind of range on the A attacks. One thing that stuck out to me was how often you used the dsmash, even at times when the opponent was well out of range. If these were wifi matches with lots of lag that you were trying to compensate for, forgive me, but I think a habit of using dsmash in any time of uncertainty is a bad one to form, as it seems to me to be one of his most punishable moves (even though I'm a bit of a glutton for it myself :p). I love your dthrow-fair usage, although I felt as if at certain times after a non-kill up smash you should've used an uair (which I did see in one of your vids). Let me know if you disagree with these suggestions, and maybe I could get some Olimar vids up for you to help me with :). Keep on pluckin'!
I agree on the downsmash advice one hundred percent - no these weren't wifi matches but alas, I've been playiing olly for just over a week - I need to learn the down smash range - especially on places where the level isn't flat. For the u-air comment - for me its become very situational because if you miss, the lag in the air leaves my opponents good chances for return attacks but good advice overall.

P.S. - I would love to help other people with their olly vids - you can post them here or simply pm me the link and i'd be more than willing to help.
 

shanus

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 17, 2005
Messages
6,055
Aight shrink, a bunch of comments on your olimar. I too play a fairly aggressive playstyle, but I've found a few things which I feel which really help against strong players.

The first is using tons of pivot grabs. By using an aggressive playstyle, it becomes really easy to get your opponent on the defensive. By keepign the pressure on and forcing them to shield more and use their faster movsets (usually at the cost of range), pivot grabbing with blues/whites I've found to really shine.

Also, nair is absolutely fantastic and I rarely see you use it. It would be nice for you to add it to your approaches as your chaining of fairs gets predictable and I feel yous till rely on fair/fsmash too much.

Yeah and overall, your sticking to the ground a lot without a ton of variation. I feel that the amount of fsmashes you throw is way too high and against a stronger opponent would get you severely punished.

Nice olimar though, you don't need to try this playstyle out, but I generally played more like you did a little while back and by making these changes I tend to do very well against a lot of the high ranked GB players and others.

Edit: If you want to see any of my play-style, I'll gladly wifi you (although i would prefer not to do olimar dittos as its just way too confusing). It's a bit harder to play on wifi as well using pivot grabs and all with the lag, but lemme know
 

shrinkray21

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
724
Location
Brookings, SD
Aight shrink, a bunch of comments on your olimar. I too play a fairly aggressive playstyle, but I've found a few things which I feel which really help against strong players.

The first is using tons of pivot grabs. By using an aggressive playstyle, it becomes really easy to get your opponent on the defensive. By keepign the pressure on and forcing them to shield more and use their faster movsets (usually at the cost of range), pivot grabbing with blues/whites I've found to really shine.

Also, nair is absolutely fantastic and I rarely see you use it. It would be nice for you to add it to your approaches as your chaining of fairs gets predictable and I feel yous till rely on fair/fsmash too much.

Yeah and overall, your sticking to the ground a lot without a ton of variation. I feel that the amount of fsmashes you throw is way too high and against a stronger opponent would get you severely punished.

Nice olimar though, you don't need to try this playstyle out, but I generally played more like you did a little while back and by making these changes I tend to do very well against a lot of the high ranked GB players and others.

Edit: If you want to see any of my play-style, I'll gladly wifi you (although i would prefer not to do olimar dittos as its just way too confusing). It's a bit harder to play on wifi as well using pivot grabs and all with the lag, but lemme know
K thank you - the nair is something that I wished I used more - I'll work on it...For the ground work - usually its a combo of still learning the character and knowing my opponent - also an area I need to improve - pivot grabs - i'm starting to incorporate as we speak :D

As for WiFi - not a huge fan of it, but pm me anytime and you can do olly and I can do marth or something similar to avoid dittos.
 

DanGR

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 10, 2008
Messages
6,860
wow, nice olimar. your one of the better olimars i've seen on youtube. The only thing i have to say that i didn't see anyone else post is that u put yourself in a bad situation when u short hop-fair and don't air cancel, and u miss.

-could u post some against more characters? I have the most trouble against sheik, not zelda btw.
 

shrinkray21

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
724
Location
Brookings, SD
wow, nice olimar. your one of the better olimars i've seen on youtube. The only thing i have to say that i didn't see anyone else post is that u put yourself in a bad situation when u short hop-fair and don't air cancel, and u miss.

-could u post some against more characters? I have the most trouble against sheik, not zelda btw.
I will do what I can, but I don't expect to have anything really good online till monday - I've been working on marth again and also video editing for my combo vid -

do you have other requests other than sheik? That one is tough b/c I'm the best shiek out of my group so if I got them up they would most likely be a sub par sheik.
 

Evelgest

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
196
Yeah, you play a great Olimar, a better one than I do. I noticed that you D-tilt quite a bit. Throw some N-air and Up-Smash into your tactics.
 

shrinkray21

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
724
Location
Brookings, SD
I LOVE the up-smash and as with some requests by people in this forum, I have been incorporating the nair when people are above me in the air - has been very very effective. Thanks to everyone for their help.

I hope to get new (improved olly) vids up by monday. - for now all I have is new marth videos in the ebs forum :(
 

TrueRedemption

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 26, 2007
Messages
278
*Phew* so i'm caught up now, saw all your vids up so far. Its late and i'm a little tired so I'm just going to briefly go over the list of things I wrote while watching the videos, if somethings not clear lemme know, and I focused on the areas there can be improvement more than the good things you do, so if i don't mention of the strengths in your play its not cause they aren't there, its cause i'm sleepy. Last disclaimer I am breaking a very important rule of my own in that i haven't read through all the posts, only skimmed lightly, forgive repetition.

You love USmash. Its a good move, friend of mine hates it passionately, but let me explain why. I use seldom use the move, in general probably about 3 times a match. The reason for this is simple, at full strength, it is a devastating move against all the non heavy characters. Quite honestly a clean USmash up around 100, 110 will kill a majority of characters on a good number of stages, learn which stages have the lowest ceilings =) I cannot express how much more efficient you will become from this small change alone. No more 180% kills that cost you 60% damage to get, you'll simply take his stock at the latest 120% and then be working on the next.

Unfortunately I was misleading above. To remove USmash degradation from your current play style will not be a small change. You need to find other ways to compensate for the damage and control USmash currently provides in the lower and middle percents. Starting with strengths you do fairly well with grabs, your reasonably efficient at getting them and often are able to turn a throw into an advantage allowing you to land a hit or two more. However this can be improved on. Unfortunately theres no easy way to do this, simply become as fluid as possible with stringing together olimar's attacks. There are no great true combos, but there are certainly plenty of good solid follow ups that'll provide punishment on a less than perfect opponent. For instance I'll suggest a nice little and longer combo I picked up from EGruntz in our online games. Grab->DThrow->FAir(Fast Fall)->USmash->UAir->UpB. Done correctly starting at 0% that combo requires solid DI and awareness to break. However it does use USmash, which will require even more strict saving it until your ready to kill. The incredible part of this "combo", besides how cool it looks, is the fact that given most any general random pikmin color order, you'll have just taken your opponent from 0% to 50+%. Not bad by any standard. Work on your own alternatives, you must have options with which to mix them up, else DIing out of the combo will be easy because it is predictable, but this one is certainly worth learning. You also have a strong tendency to resort to smash attacks. While not as troublesome as overusing USmash, degradation should be avoided if possible. Tilts, other Aerials, UpB and Latch all have their own strengths and do good damage as well, look to open up and use a bit more of your move set. UAir is great for damage and leads to more juggling, UpB helps with pesky diagonal situations and is in general a long range unexpected solid move. Most importantly I would suggest in your case though would be Latch. Your use of the move was unusual and in some ways inconsistent, overall I'd suggest not nearly approaching its potential. First a really strong habit you have and need to break is using latch off the ledge of a map. It only killed you once from too short a chain in the videos above, but just in general, unless your landing safely right back on the ledge again, or you need a purple to clear the ledge, throwing pikmin while trying to get your feet back on the ground is ineffective. At best you actually hit them and they take the 6 or 8 damage while taking advantage of your throw, either approaching you to get a strong hit in or some other high priority they have at the time. If you don't even hit them, or they are able to spare the time to throw out an attack at the incoming projectile, you've only lost ground for yourself. Most notably you do this often when recovering from the ledge, however rarely do you have a purple in front that your throwing, so whatever attack your opponent is attempting to prevent your recovering with is guaranteed to cut through your oncoming pikmin and land on you as well, either setting up a chance to ledge hog gimp you or at least reset the him guarding you hanging on the ledge situation. Anyway you did i notice make effort to throw purple and whites in particular, certainly the right choices however for two different reasons and should therefore be followed up in two different ways typically. Often though you seemed to struggle to find the space to throw them, this is mostly because you play primarily a pressure olimar rarely content to keep your distance and bait attack. Feel free to do this more, it'll help you a lot I think. First, it changes the pace of the game on your opponent, requiring them to recognize and adjust play style accordingly. Second it should help you out on that mission to get their damage up around 100% without USmash. Third, your pretty solid at attacks following shield blocking an opponents attack, so right there you have a good part of it down already. Latched guys do both a Ton of damage and very little damage at the same time. In a situation where your opponent allows a latched pikmin to hit him twice but is able to hit you with a strong attack that gave you damage allowed him to control that space and knocked the pikmin off, the damage seems insignificant, easily ignorable and certainly not worthwhile from your point of view. However, a latched pikmin just prior to a grab->FAir combo, not even followed up is suddenly a completely different situation. In that short time an extra 8-24 damage is reasonably possible. Yeah, 24, thats no mistake, 4 attacks from a white, thats practically 1/4 of your target % right there, not even counting the throw and aerial. 8% alone may not seem like much, but it certainly helps and adds up quickly. However this great damage is largely unnoticed, because the pikmin beating his head is secondary compared to the more direct attacks connecting. The beauty, and difference between the two situations is this, keeping your opponent occupied. However that may be, whether its latching a pikmin then suddenly but safely rushing in, or threatening with a SH potential aerial, maybe an attack that has little chance of connecting but will not be punished, or even just throwing more pikmin at him, all of these direct attention away from the latched guy while giving only minimal advantage up to keep him there. You want to create a situation, or at least the illusion of a situation, in which you are making the opponent decide between removing the pikmin and being hit by you, or leaving the pikmin and guarding against you. The correct choice is obviously deal with your more direct attacks as they pose a bigger threat. The trick then is creating this threat while remaining safe yourself, and also maintaining this threat as long as possible before your opponent has a chance to safely remove the pikmin. This all depends on what your opponent fears, their tendencies, what moves are capable of removing the pikmin, many factors that a great Olimar will juggle to keep latched pikmin on safely as long as possible. Rinse and repeat without becoming repetitive.

This leads into the next thing, your approach is not very unpredictable. You fall habit to running in for an USmash, running in for a grab, and SHFAir almost entirely. In no way are these bad options, they are some of the best, however mixing them up, using them at the right time, and incorporating other options will keep opponents on their heels. They must watch longer and then attempt to react to your approach rather than be able to expect whats coming and have more time to decide how to respond. The easiest way to keep approaches varied however is a point made above, change the pace and style. If you suddenly become campy and require your opponent to approach strictly you don't have to worry about becoming predictable in your own approach, however patterns you notice in your opponents approach will now be wide open for punishing.

Last couple notes and a conclusion left, i'm even wordier than normal when tired sorry =/ First your ledge guarding is interesting. I've never seen someone connect on so many way off ledge FSmashes, I've also never seen anyone try as many times. It kinda works for you, but in particular learn to recognize times that great ledge hogging can get you a kill so long as your invincible when they UpB. A number of opportunities for this were lost by you being busy FSmashing pikmin off the stage. Its also not bad for you to not necessarily fight aggressively for the ledge, especially against opponents with great recovery. Instead make use of Olimar's range/disjointed hit boxes to make recovery from the ledge to the stage difficult. Takes some developing and triyng things out, but is another option and game to play with your opponent in which you can press your advantage. Spacing as with everyone can use some work, but this applies less to pressure type olimars. Work a little on your whistle super armor, the timings worth having, you had the thought to use it a few times, however i'm not sure you actually timed it right in any of the videos. Also feel free to use the whistle more to order pikmin, grouping them does make things easier typically, it seems your still developing the ideas of knowing your pikmin order and using each color effectively if the option is avaliable, keep it up. Lastly i'm not sure of opponent availability but finding opponents who are better than you will greatly help you improve, Nold and FireWulf are not bad players, but currently are not really pushing you too much it seems.

So in 4 words how do i sum up that mess. Work on playing fluidly. A lot of what i mentioned is details and theory, but it adds up to a more fluid olimar extending the options and ideas you have now. A number of times it was possible to quite literally see your train of thought, as you somewhat stutter stepped through situations directly acting or responding a single move or two at a time. It'll come in time as you become even more familiar with olimar and what options and styles he has. You've got a lot of good things down, yet theres lots of more things to go, were all still trying to figure out what works in this new game, no ones got it all yet and I doubt anyone even really even knows it all. Maybe not all my suggestions are what will work for you, or necessarily even right. Just keep thinking about what your doing in each game, whats working against you, and what you could do better. From that you'll figure out how to improve.



-True
 

shrinkray21

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
724
Location
Brookings, SD
True - I would quote the text - but I'll just do an up arrow ^ :D. Thank you for looking at my vids - don't know why you did it late at night - go to sleep! this forum isn't going anywhere ;). Anyways - was very impressed with the critique - its impossible to not notice your understanding of olly through and through.

I think you will be happy to know that two of your suggestions have been worked in lately for me! The SAF frames are all over for me now - in one match I got SAF frames from 150-210% before my opponent finally killed me - My combo vid has a few instances where I get SAF to dsmash kill or similar. Also, I feel my edgegame has improved. I still use the fsmash off the ledge, but only in situations where i truly think I can hit my opponent.

For varying approaches - easily the place where I think I can improve the most - you gave me plenty of ideas - I think i'm getting better with this everyday - but the next batch of vids will tell the true story :D.

I really likely your explanation of uses of the over - b. The most flattering thing for me is that everything you explained with it are things I attempt to do, which means that at least I'm moving in the right direction. Your combo ideas are intuitive and helpful across the board but here's my favorite combo - grab - dthrow - fair - dtilt - fair/uair/nair depending where they go. gets me into the 45-50% range with it. Grab->DThrow->FAir(Fast Fall)->USmash->UAir->UpB. -one of the cooling sounding combos I've heard in the long time.

Overall - everything you said will go into my game tonight when I can finally play brawl again. I need to learn to consistently ff b/c the timing of olly is so different and incorporate the list of items that are posted in this forum. Thank you very much - NOW GET SOME SLEEP ;)
 

DanGR

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 10, 2008
Messages
6,860
For me - Pika is my least favorite matchup - but I do have some vids of me against a pika that I will post for you when I get a shot.
thanks man, i think pikachu is a difficult match-up also.
 

TrueRedemption

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 26, 2007
Messages
278
Nice Shrink =)

Combo vid first: I never would have taken you for a flashy player, but that was fun =P Lots of times I found myself thinking "Huh, that was unnecessary... but wow it looked good." As I mentioned at the video, little spike heavy, but not sure what you can do about that, thought the length was good, music was pretty solid, though rounded edges makes a better impression on viewers overall. Like a good video though it left me wanting to play. Even more so, I am now jealous that you have some good guys to play with a lot and have great recording so you can share it all =P I am concerned a little though, everything I've seen so far of your friends puts you fairly securely at the top of the pile. Playing a lot will certainly help all of you improve, but see if you can't find a tougher opponent around who'll really just beat you harshly and make and weak spot apparent. Anyway back on subtopic, good video =) Keep it up!

MetaKnight set: Not bad, you seem to be starting to get a solid understanding of the matchup. However hes not so great at removing Latched pikmin, and you sorta use/abuse it so its tough to say too much on the rest.

You seemed to struggle finding space against MK. A solid attack obviously does the job, but when thats not as simple as saying it you need to do one of two things. One option is retreating and re-establishing space, MKs faster though. However if he gives chase, knowing how to do the long range turn around grab can help there. You won't always have space to run to, small stages or whatever the case may be, at which time you may favor in general trying to center yourself. Its much harder to kill someone across the stage. Obviously don't give up the hit if you don't have to, but given the option trying a spot dodge (which i haven't noticed you using much, may wanna start) or rolling toward the middle of the stage puts a bit of damage control on the situation and in general helps avoid early % gimp deaths.

Same spacing thing, You in general don't want to be rolling around a MK, most of the common attacks hit both both sides and are so quick that its to MKs advantage. A quick note on olimar's roll in general, if you look at it hes actually only invulnerable for maybe 2/3 of it, the open part at the end and as far as i know not able to be canceled. So your stuck unable to start a slightly slow DSmash or a slightly shorter faster jab, while MK's roll is faster, moves faster, both sides... yeah you'll see a lot of the momentum switches occur when you try rolling and things don't work out.

Your timing/reaction to MKs speed seems unsure, a lot of the time you make a move, but only to avoid, the rolls timing isn't quite tight enough to quickly punish, or you opt to retreat, or things just get messy. Perhaps chance an attack there, your range is much longer, even should he suddenly avoid, you still end up in that neutral situation where MKs too close for comfort but at least hasn't hit you yet. You had some success meeting it with an approaching SH FAir a couple times, but didn't try it too often.

The liverpool game has made this all very distracted and disconnected I'm sure, I may add more later. Hopefully you get the points i tried to make. Really in general the entire match seemed very inconsistent, you seemed to simply trade little shots and couldn't find any strings of attacks, no juggling or connecting with a few hits in a row. If it wasn't for the latching that Ringo let eat him up (cause MK is very good at knocking them off) I believe those games may have been much closer or even the result switched. Not to be all negative though, on many of the stocks you quickly adopted saving the USmash for the kill, numerous times even making great early use of it. One kill I believe you had at 90% after the damage from the attack even. Sometimes however you seemed to forget about it, tossing pikmin at 100% and above, or just using other attacks at good USmash opportunities. Your finding a way to win, thats the important part, keep it up =)


-True
 

shrinkray21

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
724
Location
Brookings, SD
Nice Shrink =)

Combo vid first: I never would have taken you for a flashy player, but that was fun =P Lots of times I found myself thinking "Huh, that was unnecessary... but wow it looked good." As I mentioned at the video, little spike heavy, but not sure what you can do about that, thought the length was good, music was pretty solid, though rounded edges makes a better impression on viewers overall. Like a good video though it left me wanting to play. Even more so, I am now jealous that you have some good guys to play with a lot and have great recording so you can share it all =P I am concerned a little though, everything I've seen so far of your friends puts you fairly securely at the top of the pile. Playing a lot will certainly help all of you improve, but see if you can't find a tougher opponent around who'll really just beat you harshly and make and weak spot apparent. Anyway back on subtopic, good video =) Keep it up!

MetaKnight set: Not bad, you seem to be starting to get a solid understanding of the matchup. However hes not so great at removing Latched pikmin, and you sorta use/abuse it so its tough to say too much on the rest.

You seemed to struggle finding space against MK. A solid attack obviously does the job, but when thats not as simple as saying it you need to do one of two things. One option is retreating and re-establishing space, MKs faster though. However if he gives chase, knowing how to do the long range turn around grab can help there. You won't always have space to run to, small stages or whatever the case may be, at which time you may favor in general trying to center yourself. Its much harder to kill someone across the stage. Obviously don't give up the hit if you don't have to, but given the option trying a spot dodge (which i haven't noticed you using much, may wanna start) or rolling toward the middle of the stage puts a bit of damage control on the situation and in general helps avoid early % gimp deaths.

Same spacing thing, You in general don't want to be rolling around a MK, most of the common attacks hit both both sides and are so quick that its to MKs advantage. A quick note on olimar's roll in general, if you look at it hes actually only invulnerable for maybe 2/3 of it, the open part at the end and as far as i know not able to be canceled. So your stuck unable to start a slightly slow DSmash or a slightly shorter faster jab, while MK's roll is faster, moves faster, both sides... yeah you'll see a lot of the momentum switches occur when you try rolling and things don't work out.

Your timing/reaction to MKs speed seems unsure, a lot of the time you make a move, but only to avoid, the rolls timing isn't quite tight enough to quickly punish, or you opt to retreat, or things just get messy. Perhaps chance an attack there, your range is much longer, even should he suddenly avoid, you still end up in that neutral situation where MKs too close for comfort but at least hasn't hit you yet. You had some success meeting it with an approaching SH FAir a couple times, but didn't try it too often.

The liverpool game has made this all very distracted and disconnected I'm sure, I may add more later. Hopefully you get the points i tried to make. Really in general the entire match seemed very inconsistent, you seemed to simply trade little shots and couldn't find any strings of attacks, no juggling or connecting with a few hits in a row. If it wasn't for the latching that Ringo let eat him up (cause MK is very good at knocking them off) I believe those games may have been much closer or even the result switched. Not to be all negative though, on many of the stocks you quickly adopted saving the USmash for the kill, numerous times even making great early use of it. One kill I believe you had at 90% after the damage from the attack even. Sometimes however you seemed to forget about it, tossing pikmin at 100% and above, or just using other attacks at good USmash opportunities. Your finding a way to win, thats the important part, keep it up =)


-True
Great stuff as always - about the combo vid - I'm not the flashiest player ever but I firmly believed from the start that this combo vid should be wow, its been surprising how split the reaction has been with people saying that the kills come too quickly...but that's what learning is for. My next vid is going to be a little kinder to the general community in music choice, but those are some of my favorite songs...

For MK, the reason why I've been looking to you in this matchup is because I'm at somewhat of a loss, I'm normally huge into combo flows and grabs, but against MK I really have trouble finding rhythm. However, I felt some of it was excellent and some of it was awful, but that's what the forums are for.

I did not know about Olly's roll, huge thank you for the heads up...I will continue to work and get more vids up soon.

P.S. - Is there any chance that you could get vids up? I truly feel this entire forum would make huge strides if they had a better example to watch.

P.P.S. - Huge Thanks to the entire forum for their help with me over the past week - my olly has HUGE improvements yet to make - but its awesome how much help this entire forum has been - keep the feedback coming!.
 

scalpel

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
341
Location
Hawaii
Switch FC
SW-1322-7073-9341
P.S. - Is there any chance that you could get vids up? I truly feel this entire forum would make huge strides if they had a better example to watch.
:) Smart way of saying "thanks for the critique but, let's see how good YOU are".
 

shrinkray21

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
724
Location
Brookings, SD
:) Smart way of saying "thanks for the critique but, let's see how good YOU are".
Going back, it did sound kinda like I was challenging, but the reality is that I know that True is better than me, but it seems like right now I'm the most active on the forums for video submission, and while everyone has been helpful and I've made a ton of progress, I'm not the best example to watch to learn to play this character.

Plus - he plays a MK on a regular basis and the one that I fight is causing me tons of trouble :p
 

DanGR

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 10, 2008
Messages
6,860
The only thing I have to say about the games w/ that particular MK is that i didn't see once where MK charged u and short hopped anything. It seemed like he didn't change up his approach game much either. That's party your fault ( I mean that's good for u) b/c it means u were aggressive in the right places. U can take advantage of that by simply grabbing him(whether it's sg or not, or a running grab), or u could do a running cancel to upsmash, meeting him in the middle, right when u see that he has started running at u(not too close though or u'll just get hit before ) There r many things u can do in this situation just to name a few.

sorry bout all the parentheses if u were wondering why i include so many, it's b/c i want to make everything as clear as possible so i don't say anything false or that seems like i implied to be a good tactic that may indeed not be.
 

TrueRedemption

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 26, 2007
Messages
278
Haha no worries, i need a challenge here and there, good news is just today i found someone new on campus who plays Brawl, no promises on how good they'll be, but an extra opponent never hurts, since i only have 2 of any note, and how often we play varies =/ Unfortunately, I am very limited in what I can put up replay wise. If you check the youtube account Jojahfltbwlr you'll see the best quality i have to offer, and realistically I can only grab saved replays that way due to how small the room is, there'd be no way to support the camera and sit/play =P I kinda got discouraged with the quality of the two videos i have up (which aren't even full matches, just a fun combo i pulled off and something i discovered long ago about oli's recovery) and haven't even attempted to record anything since. Unfortunately I doubt I'll get a chance to play more than a quick match vs a computer between now and at least next tuesday. Once finals are over in a couple weeks I expect I'll start attending some tournaments, hopefully get some stuff there posted, but yeah, in sorta a predicament as far as video =(

Slightly less distracted (no i don't want to talk about the game...) and having reread what i posted, I realize i touched on one side of an important issue, as did you that you couldn't find that flow and rhythm, but you also did a really good job at keeping the MK from doing the same thing. MK is great at stringing together quick runs of attacks, especially aerials, and while moves were often followed up with pressure, rarely, either due to your ability or his still learning the game, did he run away with 4 or 5 consecutive attacks. Honestly I am not sure why this lack of rhythm existed, but heres my best two guesses:
1) Ringo shields better than any opponent I've seen you play yet. Many times you would attack only for it to be shielded and you punished. A number of times the MK even would approach dash->shield. The easiest way to deal with this is to grab more. Can't shield that =P Another option worth developing is to work on your reaction playing. What I mean by that is let him make the first move, but be prepared to respond to it with a spot dodge or shield or whatever, and then punish. This is the same thing the MK is doing to you, its not bad to learn its strengths and weaknesses at the same time. Now if he continues with this play style, and you pick it up, there may be interesting pauses where each of you is in range yet neither of you make a move, just hesitating and waiting, it won't last long, but those moments are pure matches of wit, whos gonna crack first, is someone going to make a nervous mistake, can you slip in an attack hes tried to be too aware of? Just a little fun =P Really though until he starts actually spot dodging or very effectively rolling I would suggest grabbing more, you'll definitely be taking advantage of his habit, and it'll force him to develop more as a player, which in turn will make you better too, everyones happy, maybe except for the MK till they learn how to overcome your grabby-ness.
2) You've found an advantage against this MK player with their lack of respect for latched pikmin. However your trying to over do it. As I mentioned... somewhere, within the past week, MKs are quick, latch isn't as easy/solid an option in the matchup because the MK can get right in your face even during a quick short hop fast fall latch. (you can fast fall a little more, but thats fine tuning no need to worry yet =P) Honestly your throwing pikmin standing on the ground at times even once hes started dashing at you, and they aren't usually purple ones. So you'll get the damage, but you lose the momentum because none of the pikmin do any knock back, they don't disrupt your opponent any, and then they come in and get a solid hit or two on you. Even when you do get actual hits in, you often time follow it up with tossing pikmin, rather than normally chasing with an aerial or setting him up to walk right into another FSmash or whatever, you know what i mean. Look at the first stock of your first game on the video, you have considerably more rhythm there than the stocks at the end of the match.

Back to the trenches, only two tests two projects a paper 4 finals a couple interviews and regionals left...


-True
 

shrinkray21

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
724
Location
Brookings, SD
ooohhhhh gross - finals...i don't start mine until the week of the 5th...alright, you guys have been very helpful...between my olly and marth, I think that I should be sitting good for the tourney on sunday...if youtube wasn't being gay, I would have already had more vids up, but you know how that is, either way, I'll keep getting vids up if you guys are still willing to watch em...
 

TrueRedemption

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 26, 2007
Messages
278
Haha always willing to watch when I have the time, certainly don't think your the only one who learns from them =) Its tough to break things down while playing, and I don't have a ton of videos of my own to tear apart, not to mention random things people try that I can pick up and add. Plus the lack of many different opponents is somewhat compensated for by seeing what other do/try against Olimar. Good Luck Sunday, keep putting things together and I'm sure you'll do alright, most importantly really watch/record/remember every game you can, playing in it or not, figure out whats beating you, whats popular in your area, what others are doing, all good stuff to know and think about. Most importantly though, as always, Have Fun =)


-True
 

Jarri

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 21, 2007
Messages
387
Location
Belgium
Really enjoyed watching the combo video. I really have to use my dAir more as Olimar, this will help me. :)
 

shrinkray21

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
724
Location
Brookings, SD
Really enjoyed watching the combo video. I really have to use my dAir more as Olimar, this will help me. :)
lols - I love the dair! :D...anyways, when an enemy is directly below you on stage, something I like to try is dair them down, then do SAF whistle to a smash/grab - very effective!
 

Olimar369

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 10, 2008
Messages
214
Location
Wallingford, CT
Great vid, I love the O man! I have a technical question, what do you use for you video captures? I wouldn't mind starting to post vids but I don't really know the best programs to use for it. Any advice?
 
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