Olimar's Matchup Thread (Old thread)

[Formaldehyde]

Throwing a pikmin on him puts him in consistent hitlag if he tries to side/down b at you. Double fsmash is really good vs him as well because the first fsmash will clank his approach and then you can attack with the second fsmash for free since you're not stuck in the clank animation. It doesn't feel that tricky to me honestly.

Thanks never really thought of the idea of double Fsmashing, hopefully that will help. My main problem is how fast he can get up to me and grab, or his homing attack, I've trying countering them with down and up tilts respectivley but either my timing is off or his priority is just too high. Thanks for the help anyway I'll try that later on and see how I get on.

 

[Angbad]

Thanks never really thought of the idea of double Fsmashing, hopefully that will help. My main problem is how fast he can get up to me and grab, or his homing attack, I've trying countering them with down and up tilts respectivley but either my timing is off or his priority is just too high. Thanks for the help anyway I'll try that later on and see how I get on.

Not only double, but triple! haha

 

[Mr Moosebones]

Homing attack is an option people don't know how to punish so it gives them trouble. Try spotdodging it (since its probably the most heavily telegraphed move in the game) and following up with an upair or repositioning yourself for stage control and powershielding it to put yourself in a good situation.

 

[Myran]

Just dropping in to complain about the Mario matchup. I believe it to be our worst. He can out camp us, has one of the best reflectors, has insane aerial mobility to cross us up, easily kills pikmin with nair, has easy bake combos, and has better frame data on every single move.

Ugh. It'd still be unbearable without the degenerative design decision of making everything Olimar does a projectile, but we can't even have that.

He can't outcamp us, he also can't approach to reliably. Pivot grab destroys most of his approaches. Fireball can help cover it, but you gotta fight around that as well. Sheik is definitely worse.

 

[Mr Moosebones]

The more I play olimar the more I realize "this is a hard MU" can be answered with "have you tried pivot grabbing?"

It's seriously such a good option 99% of the time.

 

[Myran]

The more I play olimar the more I realize "this is a hard MU" can be answered with "have you tried pivot grabbing?"

It's seriously such a good option 99% of the time.

Pretty much one of your safer options in the MU. Is it still difficult? Yes, but worst MU I don't think so.

 

[Soulimar]

How does Olimar deal with custom villager? Trip sapling seems to completely destroy the flow of my ground game plus the pikmin interaction/bug where they are forever tripping until they die from being separated from Olimar too long seem to make the matchup impossible. The pushy loid rocket also makes any approach difficult as it stops all pikmin and applies an insane amount of shield pressure. Does anyone have any experience in this matchup?

 

[Mr Moosebones]

Pretty much one of your safer options in the MU. Is it still difficult? Yes, but worst MU I don't think so.

Yeah Mario is still tough. I can see how someone could potentially have issues vs a campy Mario, but it gets much easier once you realize how much of a commitment throwing fireballs is for him. Sure, they cover his landing but if he's mindlessly spamming them then he's not using his cape or being aggressive, and if he's not using his cape or being aggressive you win.

 

[Myran]

How does Olimar deal with custom villager? Trip sapling seems to completely destroy the flow of my ground game plus the pikmin interaction/bug where they are forever tripping until they die from being separated from Olimar too long seem to make the matchup impossible. The pushy loid rocket also makes any approach difficult as it stops all pikmin and applies an insane amount of shield pressure. Does anyone have any experience in this matchup?

Not sure what to tell you as I don't play in a customs environment. I can tell you that if you run up to where the Pikmin are tripped and do an aerial with them it will teleport it into the attack and away from the sappling if you're close enough though.

 

[Freezie KO]

He can't outcamp us, he also can't approach to reliably. Pivot grab destroys most of his approaches. Fireball can help cover it, but you gotta fight around that as well. Sheik is definitely worse.

I always feel like my grabs are met with fireballs that stun me and put me in a bad position. I have to get better at pivot grabs for sure though.

But one thing I dislike also about the match is how Mario can also gradually creep up with full hop fireballs and if he can just force two clanks with pikmin, those pikmin become inactive, and he has a pretty strong approach. He just has to rush through one pikmin option (usually a pivot).

 

[Myran]

I always feel like my grabs are met with fireballs that stun me and put me in a bad position. I have to get better at pivot grabs for sure though.

But one thing I dislike also about the match is how Mario can also gradually creep up with full hop fireballs and if he can just force two clanks with pikmin, those pikmin become inactive, and he has a pretty strong approach. He just has to rush through one pikmin option (usually a pivot).

Keep red's handy to deal with fireballs then. Try to stay close to his horizontal position as well when he's fireballing so you can run behind him.

 

[Freezie KO]

I really wish there was a dedicated grab button also for pivot grabs. Way too often I do pivot ftilts which always get me punished.

(And I also hate that Falco is good now.)

 

[koken]

I really wish there was a dedicated grab button also for pivot grabs. Way too often I do pivot ftilts which always get me punished.

(And I also hate that Falco is good now.)

Easiest way to commit a pivot grab is:

• Having a button dedicated for grab.
• Do both inputs at the same time (left stick to your pivot direction + grab button).

There is no way you can miss that way .

Also for the getting hit by the fireball while he's coming to you from a short hop, just do a pivot smash then another fsmash, problem resolved :D.

As Myran said, I'm more afraid of Sheik than Mario T_T.

How does Olimar deal with custom villager? Trip sapling seems to completely destroy the flow of my ground game plus the pikmin interaction/bug where they are forever tripping until they die from being separated from Olimar too long seem to make the matchup impossible. The pushy loid rocket also makes any approach difficult as it stops all pikmin and applies an insane amount of shield pressure. Does anyone have any experience in this matchup?

I do @ Soulimar , it's far way easier than it looks.
You have to take proper distance and try to latch a Pikmin to him when he does the drop -> grab the ledge game.
Once it has one, you may sit and see how he wrack up damage or tries to shake it off. If he does, you can jump over the little tree (short hop) and go ahead, near the edge, to try to D-B-F Air. It has to be done after he release the edge, so he doesn't have immunity.

Fair enough till now, but respect the Fair of Villager 'cause it will probably start to connect when you approach. Again, try to latch a pikmin to him and try it like that or try to adapt it to your style.

On the other hand, you can try to edge trump (that's the name of stealing the ledge?), so he lost the immunity. Another good choice, but very very risky one, when you are in the mid-range battle or in the air close to the ledge, try to go under him and Uair his recovery. Of course he will try to Dair, but the balloons hits above Villager in contact (if I am wrong, please correct me).

I'm not quite sure if I explain myself right, but it worked for me. I may have 1 or 2 replays doing this and destroying a villager who does it. So if you believe I have some point on here but it's not clear yet, just tell me and I will send it to you the replay in-game .

 

[Freezie KO]

Dabuz posted this breakdown of some Olimar matchups in the other forum. Thought it was worth sharing.

http://smashboards.com/threads/character-competitive-impressions.367669/page-814#post-19567632

(-3) - Fair, nuff said

(-2) - Dash attack doesn't let him land, jab clanks with or beats all his grounded moves and stops pikmin throw, able to play footsies and dash grab anything Olimar whiffs with ease. Not unwinnable but certainly bad

(0/+1) - Pretty even actually, maybe even Oli's favor. Olimar fsmash is great in this MU but but killing is an issue for Oli and a well spaced and timed fireball stops Oli's fsmash and lets him run in for a dash grab.

(-1) - Slight disadvantage, pivot grab and jab keep him out well, just that when Mario puts Oli in the air, it's really hard for Oli to establish himself again.

(-2) - Even until kill%s where sonic can avoid or flat out contest Oli's kill options for days and Olimar can die from one slip up or just getting read once at 100%. Also very hard for Oli to land.

(-2) - Quick Attack > All of oli's moves except perfectly spaced and timed tilts, jab, and nair, Olimar can't really punish Pikachu's pressure game well either. And of course landing is an issue.

(+1) - Oli's favor (Diddy has trouble killing or approaching Oli)

(+1) - Oli's favor (Too easy to kill Luma and Rosa isn't fast enough and doesn't have safe pressure)

- Not enough experience here.

(-2) Think Falcon but add in nair crossups, jab -> anything, and the potential to die at 90 from upsmash.

(-2) TBH not much experience but his Sword is really annoying and Oli in the air is basically without options, MK's ground speed lets him get his openings super easily.

(+1) Yoshi has a lot of trouble hitting Oli and he's forced to approach, hard for Oli to kill but that's status quo for him.

(+1) Keeps Ness out really well and only really has to worry about random dash attacks which beats basically all of Oli's moves.

(+2) Pikmin toss legit beats half of Villager's moveset, fsmash and pivot grab doesn't let him get close enough for the other half.

 

[Berserker.]

>_>

Forgive me for this but I'm REALLY late with informing you guys. Shulk boards wanna talk about Olimar

http://smashboards.com/threads/olimar-match-up-thread-uh.408409/

 

[Mr Moosebones]

Yeah as good of a player as Dabuz is, you really shouldn't listen to him for matchup advice. He has a tendency to believe every character he plays to be flawed beyond repair. Idk why, I rmeember a tier list he made a few weeks ago where he put rosalina like 20th. Lots of that list doesn't make sense and the rationale is incredibly bizarre.

 

[Dabuz]

Yeah as good of a player as Dabuz is, you really shouldn't listen to him for matchup advice. He has a tendency to believe every character he plays to be flawed beyond repair. Idk why, I rmeember a tier list he made a few weeks ago where he put rosalina like 20th. Lots of that list doesn't make sense and the rationale is incredibly bizarre.

You obviously didn't see my most recent tier list, you're referring to the pre-apex patch one where rosa was top 10 because she got hard countered by Diddy. Also, a lot of my opinions coincide with Myran's and results, but please, talk out of your ass more.

 

[Myran]

I don't think Olimar loses to Pika. It might be like 45-55 Pika's favor, but he can't do much in terms of killing and you can mess up QA with Pikmin. I also don't think that MK beats Olimar, at most I'd say it's even, but maybe in Oli's favor. MK shouldn't be able to get in on Olimar if he walls out properly. The MK/Oli MU is a bunch of what ifs though so I'd say it's even without extensive testing of my own.

 

[Mr Moosebones]

You obviously didn't see my most recent tier list, you're referring to the pre-apex patch one where rosa was top 10 because she got hard countered by Diddy. Also, a lot of my opinions coincide with Myran's and results, but please, talk out of your *** more.

The man who said oli/mk is -2 says im talking out my ass? Do you know what numbers mean? Probably shouldn't say a matchup is that polarizing if you also admit you don't have mu experience.

 

[Freezie KO]

Didn't mean to start a fight. It's all opinion!

I don't think Olimar loses to Pika. It might be like 45-55 Pika's favor, but he can't do much in terms of killing and you can mess up QA with Pikmin. I also don't think that MK beats Olimar, at most I'd say it's even, but maybe in Oli's favor. MK shouldn't be able to get in on Olimar if he walls out properly. The MK/Oli MU is a bunch of what ifs though so I'd say it's even without extensive testing of my own.

I don't have much Pika experience. Beyond Purple toss, how do you mess up QA with pikmin?

 

[Myran]

Didn't mean to start a fight. It's all opinion!


I don't have much Pika experience. Beyond Purple toss, how do you mess up QA with pikmin?

I don't know the colors have off the top of my head, but it may be all of them. Anyways if you have a Pikmin attached onto Pika when he QA's when he lands with it he will slide away. I'll do further testing soon, but the gist of it is that he can't land on top of you into a follow up.

 

[Mr Moosebones]

Yeah Pikachu doesn't have anything to give him an intrinsic advantage outside of just being a better character. QA really isn't gamechanging in the matchup, especially considering that it seemingly completely shuts down other characters.

 

[Dabuz]

The man who said oli/mk is -2 says im talking out my ***? Do you know what numbers mean? Probably shouldn't say a matchup is that polarizing if you also admit you don't have mu experience.

Or you should take it with a grain of salt instead of referencing it as relevant when I admit to not having much experience. But w/e, hell if a top Olimar can have opinions on MUs at a top level without some random smashboards person deciding "You shouldn't listen to him" on the basis of legit incorrect and misconstrued information that is also of a completely different topic.

 

[Freezie KO]

I don't know the colors have off the top of my head, but it may be all of them. Anyways if you have a Pikmin attached onto Pika when he QA's when he lands with it he will slide away. I'll do further testing soon, but the gist of it is that he can't land on top of you into a follow up.

Sorry, not sure I understand. You mean Pika can't "land on top of you" in the sense that Pika has no hitbox because the pikmin absorbs QA's hit? What do you mean that he slides away?

 

[Mr Moosebones]

Or you should take it with a grain of salt instead of referencing it as relevant when I admit to not having much experience. But w/e, hell if a top Olimar can have opinions on MUs at a top level without some random smashboards person deciding "You shouldn't listen to him" on the basis of legit incorrect and misconstrued information that is also of a completely different topic.

Lol calm down man. It's not a big deal. I already said it should be taken with a grain of salt, but then you got super offended, and then you told me that I should take it with a grain of salt (exactly what I said earlier). You shouldn't feel so threatened for no reason. Idk what you're trying to prove by actively agreeing with me and also getting salty at the same time. I don't think you're an idiot and I'm sure your rationale is sound, just didn't make much sense in the specific post. I'm not stopping you from having an opinion.

 

[Myran]

Sorry, not sure I understand. You mean Pika can't "land on top of you" in the sense that Pika has no hitbox because the pikmin absorbs QA's hit? What do you mean that he slides away?

I mean Pika QA's onto/near me where he lands and then his character slides away. I'll try to get a video of it soon to show you.

 

[Vyrnx]

What should I do against Lloid spam? I fought one on FG and seriously struggled. I barely scraped out a win when the timer had 4 seconds left. They weren't doing it across the stage; they would corner me against the edge and when I tried to escape they'd use the slingshot. If I tried to outcamp him with side b as Olimar usually does in these situations the Lloid just killed the Pikmin. If I got a grab the Lloid broke the grab before I got a throw. Very frustrating. When I say Lloid spam I mean literally over and over--as soon as one Lloid disappeared he'd use the next. I basically lucked out when I read his ledge roll getup with a JCUS.

 

[Blue Banana]

What should I do against Lloid spam? I fought one on FG and seriously struggled. I barely scraped out a win when the timer had 4 seconds left. They weren't doing it across the stage; they would corner me against the edge and when I tried to escape they'd use the slingshot. If I tried to outcamp him with side b as Olimar usually does in these situations the Lloid just killed the Pikmin. If I got a grab the Lloid broke the grab before I got a throw. Very frustrating. When I say Lloid spam I mean literally over and over--as soon as one Lloid disappeared he'd use the next. I basically lucked out when I read his ledge roll getup with a JCUS.

Destroy the Lloid with a Fsmash. Its hitbox doesn't appear until it starts moving, but it can be destroyed before it does. Fsmash is a good option because it both destroys the Lloid and hits Villager as long as you're close enough. Alternatively, since the hitbox doesn't appear until it moves, you can run past the Lloid and hit Villager directly with an attack, including Usmash, if you're quick enough.

 

[Mr Moosebones]

Destroy the Lloid with a Fsmash. Its hitbox doesn't appear until it starts moving, but it can be destroyed before it does. Fsmash is a good option because it both destroys the Lloid and hits Villager as long as you're close enough. Alternatively, since the hitbox doesn't appear until it moves, you can run past the Lloid and hit Villager directly with an attack, including Usmash, if you're quick enough.

Just be careful with this since attacking the lloyd to make it explode gives it extra knockback make sure you're spaced properly.

 

[koken]

Just be careful with this since attacking the lloyd to make it explode gives it extra knockback make sure you're spaced properly.

I'm not quite sure but it could depend too on what Lloyd is using. I believe if it's custom, it changes the behave of that action - reaction.

 

[Mr Moosebones]

I'm not quite sure but it could depend too on what Lloyd is using. I believe if it's custom, it changes the behave of that action - reaction.

That's possible. I have like, zero customs knowledge.

 

[Planty]

What do you think of the Little Mac matchup?

 

[Flawlessh]

What do you think of the Little Mac matchup?

ban final D, then hide on a platform and spam dtilt and d-smash.

But honestly, just run away and pivot grab / smash his approaches. and always try to have a purple for a side b gimp. whenever he gets his ko punch, just hide on a platform and dtilt when he trys to jump up.

 

[Planty]

Who's favor is it in though?

 

[Mr Moosebones]

The thing about vs little mac is that there is a specific strategy to beat him universally with every character, which is basically just running away on platforms. Idk if you can really make a MU chart vs little mac if you include any stages that aren't FD/Smashville/Castle Siege. @ Flawlessh was "joking" but that's actually how you optimally play vs little mac on any of those stages not previously mentioned.

 

[CaptainOlimar123]

Who's favor is it in though?

I'd say it's in Olimar's favor. Just don't play on FD

 

[-The Gucci Fairy-]

Ok so assuming you are put onto a scenario where you are faced with going to FD or choose to opt to fight him head on (obviously running away back to platforms to safety as mentioned previously is safe, Also prolly think of a game plan to deal with him while you camping on their haha) retreating fairs and bairs are okay against mac tho theyre risky when u have to land back to the ground. Empty short hops are good to bait out stuff (baiting out is wonderful in general for this matchup), key things to keep in mind really is to take control of center stage and force him off the edge(being on the edge for you gives him way more options to go for you so its not always the best idea some little mac's actually want you to do that). Its always good to space yourself away from him maybe two fsmashes(or 1 fsmash for the most part) apart if you can and then camp with pikmin throw, when approaches you his safest option to come at you is a dash attack, which we can just fsmash or sheild grab for a free punish (same with his jolt hay maker although if ur on the edge chances are he won't use it for fear of sd'ing but good little mac's will use the haymakers anyways and then do some silly thing were they can snap unto the ledge) Also keep a purple on you because throwing purples from a reasonable distance removes his KO punch,whilst regular dmg from pikmin latch doesnt really remove it at all. Shield is super safe in this matchup because fortunately,his grab isn't the best out there, using OOS jab to grab or fsmash is nice, however if u stay in ur shield too long know that he can do alot of shield dmg so don't rely on that too often. Bait out his counters and air dodges, especially when he's trying to recover because if you read that its a free gimp, or on stage free dmg this is one of the time where we actutally chase someone in the air cuz his air game is so bad and unlike most matchups for oli its worse than ours lol.

As we all know if you are trying to get back to stage besides using platforms to get back, he can do that also so just be aware of that and you could probably punish him from there too, don't ever land back on stage unless u really need to because landing vs mac on the stage like we all know can be quite frustrating. Having a white pikmin is wonderful for this matchup as pivot grabbing beats his super armor(grabbing in general really but normal grabs are unsafe) and you can combo from a grab so that's always helpful to know,Having yellow pikmin for the tiny extra reach for the fsmash is nice to keep him away seeing as from max distance (a fsmash away length from him) an fsmash hitting his counter won't have him actually hit you back for the dmg as it doesnt go that far on the ground. Oh and he can downsmash on the ledge to catch u coming back to the stage so be smart when u recover that way. **One more thing to know is that always having at least one pikmin on the front of him if he hasn't already killed it and uses counter the counter is forced to activate so you can possibly have a variety of punishes from this situation.

About platforms his just be wary for stages like battlefield with the lower platforms he can upsmash through them and he does have aerials (although they're terrible but can still prop you off and get u in a bad position if you aren't careful) Also, while being on platforms be wary that his up B is in fact a useful kill move so don't thnk your always home free on them. Like what was said before me, just try to ban fd,although good lil mac's will already know that it would be banned so they practice on platform stages, I've read around on the little mac boards and it seems that they like to pick lylat since again the two outer platforms he can upsmash through, castle siege (he gets saved alot by the stage transitions although you could easily camp him on the higher platforms, especially if you break the statues he cant get on the on the 2nd transition without being very risk,the 3rd transition(lava fd one) is really good for him but it doesnt last that long compared to the other two, the first one is really bad for him since he cant even reach the platforms so he will likely not approach and wait till the stage transitions, Delfino perhaps is a good stage for and against him although its admittedly easier to camp here on certain parts so you just gotta be mindful at that point. He will most likely ban smashville, or duck hunt( duck hunt you can camp on the top of the tree its hilarious watching him try to chase u if u do it, although do be mindful when the dog pops up he can jump on top of it and get on the tree and get to you may be unsafe as hell for him but its something he might do thats nice to be aware of, , he can also kill you at 20% if he gets the entire Up B to hit at the top tree so be smart here if hes up there with u somehow). Halberd little mac's will also counterpick besides castle siege because its a little bit easier for him to chase you on the platform, dont ever stay on the edges of the platform though because the slopes where he can stand on he can still upsmash you, and ofc if they stage chooses to hit you instead of him he'd like that alot. Oh and one more thing when the stage transforms and goes on the ship its wonderful for him because the entire platform transforms so that his upsmash can hit through it, so again be aware of that and prolly would be safe to camp on platform once the stage transitions off the ship. They probably might also like town and city as well because some portions of the transition don't have platforms so you will definetly forced to fight him head on.

Play this matchup patiently and calm but precise, don't lose your cool and always remember even if your at a stock deficit and he has a KO punch, its just a little gimp away from evening the score back and winning, don't let him break your spirit just be careful and don't roll alot or he will dsmash for days, but most of you already know that. But yeah thats just my two cents to go into this a little detailed, I am prolly missing stuff, but thats what comes up to mind for me atm when I play against him.

 

[GwJ]

ROB mains are discussing the Oli matchup. Please input because we're all dumb and know diddly-squat: http://smashboards.com/threads/r-o-b-matchup-analysis-29-olimar.409295/

 

[Planty]

Thanks for the info but...

Having yellow pikmin for the tiny extra reach for the fsmash

I've heard that yellows have extra upsmash range. But f-smash range? Aren't all the f-smashes equal (except the purple ones)?

 

[Blue Banana]

I've heard that yellows have extra upsmash range. But f-smash range? Aren't all the f-smashes equal (except the purple ones)?

Yellows have slightly larger hitboxes than other colors do. That's why yellows have extra range on their attacks.