Olimar's Matchup Thread (Old thread)

[Myran]

Yellows have slightly larger hitboxes than other colors do. That's why yellows have extra range on their attacks.

1.25x larger to be exact.

 

[Mr Moosebones]

I know the yellow hitbox is larger, but in what way is it actually larger? Is it just 1.25x larger radially or is it elongated or something? I've never been sure.

 

[Myran]

I know the yellow hitbox is larger, but in what way is it actually larger? Is it just 1.25x larger radially or is it elongated or something? I've never been sure.

Not totally sure, I've never seen the hitbox comparison. I always think of it as just a bigger box.

 

[Mr Moosebones]

That's what I assumed as well. Would explain why yellow usmash reliably hits behind you.

 

[koken]

In my belief: it would be a box (square or rectangle) at Smashes and a circle on Aerials. Even though on aerials could be rectangle too and do like a swipe movement.
At least, for me, it has sense because the pikmin have a "rectangle" body, being the purple one the exception as a "circled".

I don't know... just my mind flying high lol jajaja.

 

[Mr Moosebones]

In my belief: it would be a box (square or rectangle) at Smashes and a circle on Aerials. Even though on aerials could be rectangle too and do like a swipe movement.
At least, for me, it has sense because the pikmin have a "rectangle" body, being the purple one the exception as a "circled".

I don't know... just my mind flying high lol jajaja.

All hitboxes in smash from melee onward are round/elliptical. Stops attacks from having weird corner disjoints.

 

[koken]

All hitboxes in smash from melee onward are round/elliptical. Stops attacks from having weird corner disjoints.

No kidding, seriously? That's amazing, at least from my point of view as developer and coder.
Sorry for my ignorance, I'm just competitive from Sm4sh .
Thanks for this .

 

[Mr Moosebones]

No kidding, seriously? That's amazing, at least from my point of view as developer and coder.
Sorry for my ignorance, I'm just competitive from Sm4sh .
Thanks for this .

No worries! I guess they're technically "cuboids" and not truly spherical since polygons and whatnot.

Anyway, back on topic.

Matchup spread thoughts vs Roy? Keeping him out isn't particularly difficult but if he does manage to close the gap it seems very one sided for him. I suppose thats a running theme with Oli, but especially vs someone with an fsmash that quick and powerful.

 

[Blue Banana]

Roy's fast, so he can generally close the distance between him and Olimar quickly and make the fight shift between midrange and close range. I don't think he has any safe approaches; aerials don't have any solid IASA frames as far as I know which just leaves dash attacks/grabs to worry about for the most part.

Close range, Olimar would need to pick safe moves that don't leave him vulnerable for too long and watch for how Roy acts because his attacks are faster than his. It's probably the same as applying the same close range tactics to other characters w/ fast frame data like Mario and Luigi. Neutral B doesn't have a lot of endlag, so it's difficult to punish him after a whiff.

Since Roy's a fast faller, he's probably vulnerable to some Dthrow combos that other fast fallers like Fox and Shiek are vulnerable to, like Dthrow -> Fsmash.

Roy's recovery covers an average amount of distance or height in expense of the other depending on the trajectory, so knocking him low off-stage w/ Dsmash or gimping w/ purple side Bs can work.

 

[Mr Moosebones]

Yeah dthrow combos work well on him. Just throwing him offstage is often enough to secure the stock at high %s. His fall speed makes upthrow a bit less useful but a backthrow at the edge at 120% puts him in a really awful position, especially if you have purples, like you mentioned.

Olimar seems to not be able to avoid roy's dthrow up b combo, which allows him to rack up substantial % much quicker than Oli can chip away. I haven't played the MU a whole lot so it's possible this is avoidable, but it seems tough to deal with. Closing out stocks is imperative to winning this matchup imo. Rage is incredibly potent for Roy.

 

[Alph Aran]

Interesting. Olimar vs Roy used to be a common match-up for me in For Glory. In my experiences, some Roy players have attempted to KO me offstage, but fell or put themselves in bad positions. They also tend to dash towards me and wait for me to roll before dash attacking or pivot tilt, so I adapted to using side smash as the better defensive option. Don't be ashamed of using side smash attacks a lot more often against Roy than in other characters. Down-Smash against a cornered Roy is optimal.

 

[Vyrnx]

So I was playing Olimar online and was fighting a Kirby. I was winning pretty easily and the other guy was frustrated. Once he copied my ability he decided to mock me by just sitting and throwing Pikmin at me, but the problem is the copied ability is actually a really good projectile... I couldn't do anything. I tried perfect shielding and running up for a grab, but the copied Pikmin come out so fast I always got punished. Even if I went for a dash attack or something, I'd get hit. When I tried to out camp him like I normally would against these people, the other Pikmin would just clash and make them die. Plus I'd get surprised by a white copied Pikmin that would fly across the stage and knock me off the ledge. Then I'd get edge guarded by the fake Pikmin... I couldn't approach through the air either. Would would you all suggest in this situation? I was up two stocks to begin and ended up losing. Pretty frustrating.

 

[Myran]

So I was playing Olimar online and was fighting a Kirby. I was winning pretty easily and the other guy was frustrated. Once he copied my ability he decided to mock me by just sitting and throwing Pikmin at me, but the problem is the copied ability is actually a really good projectile... I couldn't do anything. I tried perfect shielding and running up for a grab, but the copied Pikmin come out so fast I always got punished. Even if I went for a dash attack or something, I'd get hit. When I tried to out camp him like I normally would against these people, the other Pikmin would just clash and make them die. Plus I'd get surprised by a white copied Pikmin that would fly across the stage and knock me off the ledge. Then I'd get edge guarded by the fake Pikmin... I couldn't approach through the air either. Would would you all suggest in this situation? I was up two stocks to begin and ended up losing. Pretty frustrating.

Watch his lineup since they all throw in the set order. Then you can approach depending on the colors arc, bait him into doing stuff with aerials as well, and make sure power shields are on point. If you can throw some of your own into him from the air too. Purples are a great way to make him go on the defensive, and you can do it in the air.

 

[-The Gucci Fairy-]

So I was playing Olimar online and was fighting a Kirby. I was winning pretty easily and the other guy was frustrated. Once he copied my ability he decided to mock me by just sitting and throwing Pikmin at me, but the problem is the copied ability is actually a really good projectile... I couldn't do anything. I tried perfect shielding and running up for a grab, but the copied Pikmin come out so fast I always got punished. Even if I went for a dash attack or something, I'd get hit. When I tried to out camp him like I normally would against these people, the other Pikmin would just clash and make them die. Plus I'd get surprised by a white copied Pikmin that would fly across the stage and knock me off the ledge. Then I'd get edge guarded by the fake Pikmin... I couldn't approach through the air either. Would would you all suggest in this situation? I was up two stocks to begin and ended up losing. Pretty frustrating.

Nice things you can also do vs Kirby's that copy your ability is know that they have a set range and you can camp him out on that set range just make sure u ban small stages we cant really run away that much. Also propping kirby up in the air makes it so that he cant use the ability, all in all its not that bad just wait for an opening then approach and also keep in mind what myran said^

 

[koken]

So I was playing Olimar online and was fighting a Kirby. I was winning pretty easily and the other guy was frustrated. Once he copied my ability he decided to mock me by just sitting and throwing Pikmin at me, but the problem is the copied ability is actually a really good projectile... I couldn't do anything. I tried perfect shielding and running up for a grab, but the copied Pikmin come out so fast I always got punished. Even if I went for a dash attack or something, I'd get hit. When I tried to out camp him like I normally would against these people, the other Pikmin would just clash and make them die. Plus I'd get surprised by a white copied Pikmin that would fly across the stage and knock me off the ledge. Then I'd get edge guarded by the fake Pikmin... I couldn't approach through the air either. Would would you all suggest in this situation? I was up two stocks to begin and ended up losing. Pretty frustrating.

@ Myran and @ -The Gucci Fairy- cover it almost everything you need to know, but in my opinion, something that might help you out, is to play the same game that Kirby does.
Try to get 2 purples at least as soon as possible and put some pressure. I'm sure it will help you out , works for me .

 

[kirby509]

Do you guys have any tip against Shiek and Shulk? They seem to outspeed, out-range, and out-prioritize Olimar. Is there anything that Olimar may be able to do against them?

 

[-The Gucci Fairy-]

Do you guys have any tip against Shiek and Shulk? They seem to outspeed, out-range, and out-prioritize Olimar. Is there anything that Olimar may be able to do against them?

Not trying to be that one guy but that has been discussed in past posts

 

[Gidy]

What exactly does Olimar excel in? Camping?

 

[-The Gucci Fairy-]

What exactly does Olimar excel in? Camping?

Turtling is a better word for it his tool set makes it that way

 

[Gidy]

Olimar is much funner played offensively imo.

 

[-The Gucci Fairy-]

Olimar is much funner played offensively imo.

It possible, just very risky as olimar's used offensively can be outprioritzed by other characters if thrown out regularly, not only that but they are pretty punishable. Tbh I think its better to be a mix of defensive and offensive, just know when to do it and not to do it with purples you can infact push stage prescence and then cover more options so at that point you can be offensive but everything all depends on the matchup persay. And not every player who uses olimar plays the same so if you can make it work and it becomes successful then you do what is comfortable on your case. (I think this topic and subject is better put into the social thread)

 

[Myran]

Unless this is a serious post discussing Olimar's competitive strategies and play styles in certain MUs I'm gonna have to agree with Gucci, let's keep this on topic and serious if possible.

 

[Gidy]

So he's kinda like DHD? Can be played offensively and defensively depending on the situation?

 

[shrooby]

Dedede mains are discussing the Oli MU at the moment.

http://smashboards.com/threads/read...n-currently-discussing-olimar-8-1-8-5.395045/

Input from your guys' side would be great.

 

[BlazeFlipnotes]

Olimar vs Ness?

 

[Flawlessh]

Olimar vs Ness?

side b to gimp em off stage, ness cant really do much when we get the grab.

ness also has trouble approaching us when we space f-smashes and grabs

matchup is in oli's favor, but not by much as ness can combo us easily and kill us super early if he ever does get the grab off on us.

 

[Myran]

side b to gimp em off stage, ness cant really do much when we get the grab.

ness also has trouble approaching us when we space f-smashes and grabs

matchup is in oli's favor, but not by much as ness can combo us easily and kill us super early if he ever does get the grab off on us.

I wouldn't say it's necessarily in Ness' favor. He can stay in the air quite a bit, and nair destroys everything we do. We also die fairly easily to his bthrow and uair.

If in Oli's favor, it's a slim amount. A good Ness is a pain to fight.

 

[Mr Moosebones]

It's probably one of the most even matchups that exists imo. Advantages are hard to keep once you get them in this matchup for both characters.

 

[Cerealisyummy5]

Olimar vs Bowser?

 

[StripedNinja]

Olimar vs Bowser?

Very much in Olis favor. Bowser is slow and begging to be combo'd. You gotta be careful as when fighting any heavy cause you can die really early but that's if they hit you which is not an easy thing to do against a smart Olimar. He just doesn't really have any answer to Olimars wall.

 

[StripedNinja]

Alright guys today I'll be talking about (Rosalina and Luma). I know this character can be hard to deal with, but I've got some tips and stuff that should make the MU much easier.

Pros

• Can jab lock Luma.
• Purples are great for disrupting approaches.
• Smashes go through Luma making a great tool for walling out.
  
• Small size makes certain aerial approaches harder to hit.
• Olimar's out of shield options can be very strong, especially when coming from a power shield.

Cons

• She can absorb your smashes with Down-B.
• Luma makes grabbing very unsafe.
• Can kill Olimar early.
• Is able to go offstage to gimp/kill Olimar.

First off I'm gonna start with how to deal with the two types of Rosalina, offensive and defensive. Let's start the with offensive ones. There are a couple ways they will approach you there is the standard auto-canceled Nair approach, the Dash Attack/Dash Grab, and the Luma Shot. Keep in mind there are other ways to be aggressive, but these are the most common ones.

Let's start off with the Nair approach. When a Rosalina Nairs the hitboxes are active all the way until the move cancels on the ground, but the best way to punish this approach is to power shield into jab or smash. This is almost guaranteed everytime if they are throwing out Nair to often. It becomes a much more punishable move, and allows the Olimar to appropriately wrack damage for incorrect aggression. I cannot stress the importance of power shielding, this is a vital part of Olimar's punish game since so many of these higher tier characters have little to no lag on their attacks.

Next I'll talk about the Dash Attack/Dash Grab approach. The Dash attack can be a bit of a hard move to punish, but it is definitely possible. Keep a purple on hand is a great way to immediately stop her from running in. Another method is to bait out an attack/grab then run back and pivot smash/pivot grab. These moves have a lot of range, and are great for grounded opponents. Shielding is what I have found to be a tried and true method for most approaches due to the great OoS options, but make sure not to get to predictable when shielding, because they may start grabbing. Try to find a good balance of shielding, camping out with Pikmin Throw, and pivot attacking. This will make the grounded approach much easier to avoid.

Finally I'll talk about what I find the easiest aggressive style to play against. The Luma Shot is a pretty simple work around. If the Rosalina is shooting in the Luma constantly you can either shield it or jump above it. Once it's out watch out for any attacks, but if you're able to catch it with a jab you can lock it there by jabbing and moving forward as the Luma does. This will make her approach and from there you can do the other options listed above. One thing I have found can work well against less experienced players is to F-Smash right as they approach you. This will end the jab lock, wrack up some extra damage, and will either make the player shield most likely giving you time to get away or hit them.

Now for the Defensive Rosalina. I won't be breaking this down into certain sections, but instead covering how to deal with the ones who stay back and are constantly retreating back. When Rosalina is more defensive I find it to be a much easier MU, because it allows the Olimar much more room to breathe while letting him wrack up easier damage. Defensive Rosalinas are usually there when they can't find out how to get through the wall of Pikmin Olimar can put up. This means that keeping a strong defense of your own is key. Olimar is a defensive character, he wracks up damage from a distance and punishes when the opponent approaches. Another key element is stage control. When you have the Rosalina on the defensive it allows you to push forward on the stage. This allows more safe offense, and an easier time getting those hard hitting attacks on her. Keeping purples with you is key, because it you do decide to press forward for more aggro attacks having the purple will make them retreat to shield, dodge, or get hit. These options are all good, because it allows for much better follow ups. I know this section might sound a little contradictory with me saying Olimar is defensive, but having some stage dominance and offensive pressure, but I hope that you guys will learn what I'm saying as you progress in the MU.

One last note I want to talk about is how to recover when offstage. Rosalina is very good offstage because of her great recovery and large hitboxes. When knocked offstage you need to be able to mix up either going high or low, and when I say low I mean very low. You need to make Rosalina commit to going down so that if you aren't hit she won't be able to throw out another attack. It is also advised when going low to ride the wall of the stage. It will increase the chances of you being hit into the wall which will allow you to tech it and recover.

Overall I'd say the Rosalina MU is a 50/50 for Olimar. He has tools to keep her back, and ways to get around strong pressure. Just make sure to keep the reaction timing up for good power shields and tech, and you'll be able to deal with a lot of offensive pressure she will put out. Purples are huge for going in and keeping her out as well. Abuse the fact that your smashes go through Luma too. If you guys have any more questions feel free to ask!

Just to add to this a little, I find the whistle becomes really useful against Rosalina since it's pretty hard to land against her, but her juggling tools (up air/up tilt) are both pretty obvious coming out and single hit, making them pretty easy to whistle helping Oli get back to the stage a lot.

 

[Myran]

Just to add to this a little, I find the whistle becomes really useful against Rosalina since it's pretty hard to land against her, but her juggling tools (up air/up tilt) are both pretty obvious coming out and single hit, making them pretty easy to whistle helping Oli get back to the stage a lot.

Ahh yes, back when I was dedicated to writing out long informative post. I've gotten lazy these days haha.

 

[Angbad]

Very much in Olis favor. Bowser is slow and begging to be combo'd. You gotta be careful as when fighting any heavy cause you can die really early but that's if they hit you which is not an easy thing to do against a smart Olimar. He just doesn't really have any answer to Olimars wall.

It's probably realistically 6-4 olimar's favor. without rage i'd put it at 7-3

 

[Mr Moosebones]

Idk where this notion that bowser is garbage and doesn't have approach options comes from. A ton of people in my region think that as well despite 90% of them having not ever played against a competent bowser. One guy I know was adamant Fox/Bowser was 90:10 (lol?) despite him literally never having played a bowser in bracket.

 

[Freezie KO]

Anyone have Pac Man tips? All of his little gimmicks mess with pikmin. Fire Hydrant prevents pikmin from returning. It literally blocks them from running back to Olimar on stage. Of course whistle is an option, but with all the stuff Pac Man sets up on stage, it's asking to be put in an even worse position. Also, all of the fruit attracts pikmin. Even as the fruit bounces and lands on the ground, pikmin just sit there attacking it.

Pac Man can stall for a really long time in the air as he charges his fruit, and Olimar's poor air mobility makes pursuing Pac Man difficult. Of course you can't go underneath Pac Man ever because of the Fire Hydrant threat.

Then there's the opposite scenario: Because Olimar's landing options are terrible, Pac Man can just throw a key or something just to cover the landing and keep Olimar in disadvantage.

Pac Man is basically never where Olimar wants him. He's either throwing stuff, doing janky fire hydrant gimmicks, or floating in the air. This makes Olimar's grab game very difficult to do anything with, and unlike other potentially bad match ups, Pac Man doesn't even chase Olimar, so the pivot game isn't effective.

My only real strat is to try to smash through the fire hydrant with a pikmin to create a hitbox going through it and forcing the hydrant to go flying. Anything else just seems like me endlessly pursuing him in an annoying hit-and-run match that's like playing against a Sonic with projectiles.

 

[Mr Moosebones]

I feel like Olimar has an advantage in the matchup vs Pac Man. Pac's Hydrant is good for splitting up pikmin, yes, but for that to be an issue it means he had to place the hydrant fairly close to you, which allows for incredibly easy followups for Olimar as his smash attacks are substantially quicker than anything Pac has to break the hydrant (especially if he's trying to dash attack into it to break it). There's no reason why ALL of your pikmin should be separated (why have you thrown away all your pikmin?) and in the worst case scenario where that's the case, the hydrant + key isn't anything a powershield can't fix.

So, tips are:

1. Keep center stage as much as possible: good in general, but forces pac man to play with much less space than he wants
2. Predict his hydrant usage and use it to your own benefit: the water allows you to do dacus-like shenanigans
3. Literally never approach if you have the lead: just spam side b (intelligently) and fsmash his hydrant back at him. Even if you're losing there's no reason why you can't win the war of attrition. Olimar has earlier kill power and arguably better hydrant control than pac himself does, as well as great DOTs that force him to nair in place to stop them which allows you to gain positional advantage 9 times out of 10.
4. Stay grounded: helps with hydrant control and allows you to avoid literally all his kill setups
5. Go for risky grabs occasionally when the hydrant is out: the water can push you to safety if you whiff and if you get the grab you can still execute it if you get pushed away from your pikmin (cuz ty based sakurai)

I'd say this is probably 60:40 (maybe 55:45) in Olimar's favour. Pac Man is a slippery dude to get the kill on, but why fish for the kill when you can just wear him down and wait until he makes a mistake?

This is all based on playing vs a Pac Man main in my region who is around a similar skill level to yours truly.

 

[Freezie KO]

I feel like Olimar has an advantage in the matchup vs Pac Man. Pac's Hydrant is good for splitting up pikmin, yes, but for that to be an issue it means he had to place the hydrant fairly close to you, which allows for incredibly easy followups for Olimar as his smash attacks are substantially quicker than anything Pac has to break the hydrant (especially if he's trying to dash attack into it to break it). There's no reason why ALL of your pikmin should be separated (why have you thrown away all your pikmin?) and in the worst case scenario where that's the case, the hydrant + key isn't anything a powershield can't fix.

So, tips are:

1. Keep center stage as much as possible: good in general, but forces pac man to play with much less space than he wants
2. Predict his hydrant usage and use it to your own benefit: the water allows you to do dacus-like shenanigans
3. Literally never approach if you have the lead: just spam side b (intelligently) and fsmash his hydrant back at him. Even if you're losing there's no reason why you can't win the war of attrition. Olimar has earlier kill power and arguably better hydrant control than pac himself does, as well as great DOTs that force him to nair in place to stop them which allows you to gain positional advantage 9 times out of 10.
4. Stay grounded: helps with hydrant control and allows you to avoid literally all his kill setups
5. Go for risky grabs occasionally when the hydrant is out: the water can push you to safety if you whiff and if you get the grab you can still execute it if you get pushed away from your pikmin (cuz ty based sakurai)

I'd say this is probably 60:40 (maybe 55:45) in Olimar's favour. Pac Man is a slippery dude to get the kill on, but why fish for the kill when you can just wear him down and wait until he makes a mistake?

This is all based on playing vs a Pac Man main in my region who is around a similar skill level to yours truly.

Wow. Thanks for the detailed response! Really surprised you think the MU is in our favor with how all the fruit shenanigans interact with pikmin.

One problem I've had is that Pac Man can put the hydrant mid-stage to camp behind it. So if I use pikmin toss, that's how my pikmin get separated. If I whistle, that's when Pac Man goes in or throws his items. If I go in and cross the hydrant "dividing line" on the stage, that's when Pac Man runs up and does janky things.

I do try to stay grounded, but that's when I feel in the least control. I'm getting pushed around with water and Pac Man is floating around, charging projectiles or throwing weird bouncing ones that put me into shield and consume my pikmin. I guess I have to be more patient.

Good advice on the grabs and trying to use his hydrant against him. I generally shell up when the hydrant is doing weird things because it feels like Pac Man causes too much chaos while I am trying to run a game of controlled aggression with pikmin management. I'll also concentrate on keeping center stage control. Looking back, I can see how I tried to bait Pac Man with pivots, and that's how he was successful at pushing me towards the ledge.

Thanks!

 

[Mr Moosebones]

Just remember that regardless of how chaotic it looks, it's all just patterns. On top of that, you actually have more control of the hydrant than he does. These are mental notes you've gotta make and I swear they'll help you improve, even if they aren't mechanical skills. Glad I could help!

 

[Freezie KO]

Just remember that regardless of how chaotic it looks, it's all just patterns. On top of that, you actually have more control of the hydrant than he does. These are mental notes you've gotta make and I swear they'll help you improve, even if they aren't mechanical skills. Glad I could help!

Yeah. I don't play many Pac Mans (Men?), so I have to also learn to recognize the patterns you mention.

 

[Alph Aran]

How's Olimar vs Mega Man? Mega Man's Metal Blades go through the Pikmin.