Olimar Matchup Thread

[PhoenixAlpha]

Wario or MK

 

[Dabuz]

snake, that matchup NEEDS rediscussing

 

[BOB SAGET!]

why dont we do a simpler one like fox that we havent discussed yet.

 

[DarkAura]

fox gets *****.

unless you know the match up :D

 

[Llumys]

Fox can't approach Olimar at all. It's a hilarious match-up.

At least 65:35 for us. :D

 

[Tin Man]

I also agree for snake, MK or snake

 

[Johnny Citrus]

I vote Snake too. That's one of the more interesting matchups to me and one of the most important 0_0

 

[RichBrown]

Lol

I feel bad because I actually lost to a diddy 3 weeks ago XD

But I was in a slump, and I realized I had actually forgotten a lot of stuff I knew about diddy, but it came back to me. And those games were last hit anyways *johns

I'll talk about diddy more later, but I'll throw a few minor things out there:

Playing Diddy requires a specific style of play that almost certainly does not coincide with you how you normally play. There is a specific goal to playing diddy, and that is to scare him into putting bananas into play. I firmly believe that Olimar is actually better equipped to handle bananas than diddy. The mindset you must have is that they aren't "diddy's bananas". If anything they are Olimar's bananas, and it's up to you to make it that way. Once you grab one, throw pikmin so he doesn't know when the banana is gonna come. I like to throw the banana after throwing a purple.

I'm gonna stop abruptly because I'm tired and I realized I typed a lot even though I said I wouldn't and yeah I'm so tired right now I can barely thing I was gonna finish this sentence with something but I forgot while I was typing fuuuuuck I'm tired

And what dabuz said: snake needs rediscussing. That matchup got hard out of nowhere, the snakes figured out a LOT of tricks, but we can still swing it back to 60-40, I feel it's like a very slim 55-45 Olimar right now.

 

[Fino]

My feelings on fox are biased only because I live next to the best fox in the nation <.<;


~Fino

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Rich, just for future reference, the discussion of the diddy matchup will be in here: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=245053

I'm glad you're back though, I wasn't wanting to have the diddy matchup finished until you posted in it, haha.

As for fox, it's definitely not 65:35
tbh i don't even think olimar completely outcamps fox. Fox doesn't really have to approach Olimar most of the time, but it's still definitely in olimar's favor. Fox does have problems approaching. Most likely 60:40 Olimar.

As for the next matchup, it doesn't really matter too much to me who we discuss. I wouldn't mind snake or meta knight, but other characters would work as well.

There's a lot of interest in discussing the snake matchup, so we may go with that.

 

[Fino]

Rich, just for future reference, the discussion of the diddy matchup will be in here: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=245053

I'm glad you're back though, I wasn't wanting to have the diddy matchup finished until you posted in it, haha.

As for fox, it's definitely not 65:35
tbh i don't even think olimar completely outcamps fox. Fox doesn't really have to approach Olimar most of the time, but it's still definitely in olimar's favor. Fox does have problems approaching. Most likely 60:40 Olimar.

As for the next matchup, it doesn't really matter too much to me who we discuss. I wouldn't mind snake or meta knight, but other characters would work as well.

There's a lot of interest in discussing the snake matchup, so we may go with that.

Or we could do both O.o

Someone's slacking on moving discussion though X:


~Fino

 

[Noa.]

Fox is definitely not a **** matchup for us. I've played some foxes here, and it's not too bad for fox.

Oli has trouble with characters that have fast moves that can apply shield pressure, and Fox kinda applies. He also kills as early as we do. Oli's advantage, but not by much.

Lets discuss Snake. It's a matchup I know decent enough anyway.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Or we could do both O.o

~Fino

No, the olimar boards as a whole didn't do too well discussing the pika and diddy matchup. Too many olimars don't post, especially the ones that know the matchups the best and are able to intelligently discuss them the best. I, as well, don't have the time to discuss and write long paragraphs for two matchups at once. If we're going to discuss matchups as complex as meta knight or snake, it's best we do them one at a time.

 

[Noa.]

I myself would love to do two discussions at once, but the Olimar boards are too inactive and we're a small community. When he have a lot of people posting regularly, then we should begin discussing two matchups. If Hilt has the time of course.

 

[PhoenixAlpha]

Lets discuss Snake. It's a matchup I know decent enough anyway.

These are the kinds of matchups we need to discuss. This week I'll try to get in some sets with Ice and see what I can come up with.

 

[Fino]

Snake is like playing a slow toon link with kill moves... which means less homo and moar fun. Beating snakes feel good too, then again... I dunno what losing to snake feels like X:


~Fino

 

[BOB SAGET!]

I face foxs all the time and there are really good ones in my region. No its not 65-35 us. Fox's lazers stop our pkmn . We must jump to get our pkmn to hit him. Plus he can just reflect them off, he can shine gimp us. His Reverse Grab Boosting is deadly. His jab combo to grab and followup is also deadly.

 

[Llumys]

I doubt Fox's reverse pivot grab would work on an Olimar that spaces correctly.

 

[BOB SAGET!]

I doubt Fox's reverse pivot grab would work on an Olimar that spaces correctly.

fight some good foxes then speak.

 

[Dabuz]

snake=much more important to discuss than fox ATM, more snake plox

 

[Llumys]

Oh, I'm sorry. I never realized I hadn't played any good Fox mains. ):

Anyway, before we start discussing Snake, I'll throw in a few things about Diddy.

I've noticed a lot of Olimar mains pick up bananas with dash attacks. I don't think it's a good idea at all. For those who don't know, SH aerials can pick up bananas, as can DACUS. The DA in the DACUS picks up the banana, but not having to deal with Olimar's mediocre DA is good. Oh, and for nubs who don't know, try picking up bananas by letting go of your analog stick while running, then press A. I believe JC tossing as been covered.

<_<;

Onto Snake, I guess?

 

[DtJ Hilt]

snake=much more important to discuss than fox ATM, more snake plox

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=8387495#post838749

Wish Granted

 

[Dyyne]

I've noticed a lot of Olimar mains pick up bananas with dash attacks. I don't think it's a good idea at all. For those who don't know, SH aerials can pick up bananas, as can DACUS.

SH aerials to pick up a banana is often more easily to punish than a dash attack. While they are both extremely easily punished, the multiple hits in dash attack at least has a chance to throw off the opponent. Not to mention that it has much more priority, I think it beats diddy's dash attack if I recall correctly...I know it beats some of his moves at least.

 

[Llumys]

How exactly is one of Olimar's aerials more punishable than his mediocre single-hit dash attack? It's predictable and easily punished. Regardless, I'm not saying to never use his dash attack.

 

[PhoenixAlpha]

I don't bother trying to "beat" Diddy to a banana. Whenever there is a banana, I play close to it without actually trying to pick it up. Running up to a banana and fsmashing right before you get to it is pretty sweet. It's even better when you do the same thing with your banana.

If you can make Diddy "want" his bananas really bad, fighting near them usually gets you some good reads or opportunities to deal damage. I only pick it up once he's reasonably out of the way.

Is it just me, or does it seem like Diddy's would much rather try and get a banana FROM you than pull out a second banana to even the score. It's like you stole his child or something.

 

[Fino]

fight some good foxes then speak.

I doubt Fox's reverse pivot grab would work on an Olimar that spaces correctly.

^^; I only live two hours away from the best fox in the nation, but what do I know?


~Fino

 

[BOB SAGET!]

I doubt Fox's reverse pivot grab would work on an Olimar that spaces correctly.

^^; I only live two hours away from the best fox in the nation, but what do I know?


~Fino

If u actually faced him then i trust your word.

 

[Weruop]

i feel ive finally got the diddy kong matchup down.
f smash ***** for edgeguarding
jump canceled throw or w/e *****
not much tos ay.. yellow pikmin f smash beats their dash atk
ummm i didnt try wairing bananas at all vs felix but it seems useful.
gotta watch out for their lightning quick throws into spikes

id say 55-45 . MAYBE 60-40

 

[Fino]

i feel ive finally got the diddy kong matchup down.

Lies! I always feel I have the diddy match-up down.... and then I play another diddy <.<
Diddy is annoying.... but he's not gay (cept for that one taunt where he spouts AIDS out of his mouth)


~Fino

 

[Llumys]

General match-up discussion, anyone?

Here's what I think. (I may have forgotten some characters.)

30:70
Marth

35:75
Luigi

40:60
Meta Knight
Squirtle
Peach

45:55
Mr. Game & Watch
Sheik

50:50
Falco
Diddy Kong
Wario
R.O.B.
Yoshi
Ness

55:45
Ice Climbers
Pikachu
Kirby
Zero Suit Samus
Toon Link
Yoshi
Sonic

60:40
Snake
King Dedede
Lucario
Donkey Kong
Fox
Wolf
Charizard
Lucas


65:35
Pit
Bowser
Mario
Ivysaur

70:30
Samus
Ike
Jigglypuff

75:25
Link
Captain Falcon

90:10
Ganondorf

 

[Zori]

squirtle lower

wario higher

marth 70:30??? i think 60

and i played some smart lucas i think he should be higher


imo

 

[DanGR]

General match-up discussion, anyone?

Here's what I think. (I may have forgotten some characters.)

30:70
Marth-> 40-60 to 35-65

35-65
Luigi

40:60
Meta Knight-> 35-65
Squirtle-> 35-65
Peach

45:55
Mr. Game & Watch
Sheik-> 40-60

50:50
Falco-> 40-60
Diddy Kong-> 45-55 to 40-60
Wario-> 40-60
R.O.B.
Yoshi
Ness

55:45
Ice Climbers-> 40-60
Pikachu
Kirby-> 60-40
Zero Suit Samus-> 40-60
Toon Link
Sonic

60:40
Snake-> 50-50 to 40-60
King Dedede
Lucario
Donkey Kong
Fox
Wolf-> 50-50
Charizard
Lucas-> 60-40


65:35
Pit
Bowser
Mario-> 60-40
Ivysaur

70:30
Samus
Ike-> 65-35
Jigglypuff

75:25
Link
Captain Falcon

90:10
Ganondorf

I put in color what I feel strongly about. I'd make some more minor changes, but I don't have a really good grasp on some of them- that or they aren't important. (anything about 70-30 in my mind is a guaranteed win, so why bother?)

Key:
Lime- better
Red- worse

And with that, I'll say that I think Oli is worse than a large majority of the community thinks. T_T

 

[kingcobra9]

does five actually make that much of a difference

 

[DanGR]

does five actually make that much of a difference

Matchup ratios are arbitrary, numerical representations of matchups. With that in mind, I'd say yes; it does make a difference. The difference is a slight advantage versus a completely even one. It's not important to the player though because slight dis/advantages are pretty easily overcome by just being a better player.

If I had it my way, I'd have only 7 categories:
Unwinnable
Big disadvantage
Disadvantage
Even
Advantage
Big advantage
Guaranteed win

Arbitrary isn't good. <___<

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Differences in my list from llumys'

Marth, Peach, MK, Ice Climbers, Snake, Mario, Samus, Lucas, Link

Reasoning will come later when i have more time

35:65
Luigi

35:65 or 40:60 (Unsure)
Peach
MK

40:60
Squirtle
Marth

45:55
Mr. Game & Watch
Sheik

50:50
Diddy Kong
Wario
R.O.B.
Yoshi
Ness
Ice Climbers
Snake


55:45
Falco
Pikachu
Kirby
Zero Suit Samus
Yoshi
Sonic
Lucas

60:40
Toon Link
King Dedede
Lucario
Donkey Kong
Fox
Wolf
Charizard
Mario

65:35
Pit
Bowser
Ivysaur
Samus
Link
Jigglypuff

70:30
Ike

75:25
Captain Falcon

90:10
Ganondorf

 

[kingcobra9]

Matchup ratios are arbitrary, numerical representations of matchups. With that in mind, I'd say yes; it does make a difference. The difference is a slight advantage versus a completely even one. It's not important to the player though because slight dis/advantages are pretty easily overcome by just being a better player.

If I had it my way, I'd have only 7 categories:
Unwinnable
Big disadvantage
Disadvantage
Even
Advantage
Big advantage
Guaranteed win

Arbitrary isn't good. <___<

that's my opinion

 

[Tin Man]

I completely agree with DanGR, except, I need help with the Kirby Vs Olimar if it really is in our advantage, can we discuss it?

Bair ***** pikmin

Kirby can gimp Olimar, getting back on stage is a nightmare.

Kirby can kill Olimar earlier

Kirby with Olimar's ability makes the match-up even tougher for Olimar cause Kirby has a solid projectile and the arc it travels in can gimp Olimar

Kirby can stay diagonally above Olimar which is where Olimar doesn't have many attacks that go in that direction, and then Bair spam

Being above Kirby sucks cause his air speed and running speed is faster then Olimar's air speed, so if air dodge and whistle is baited, that sucks

Being under Kirby may help us but his air speed is greater then ours, multiple jumps, and if Olimar goes in the air after him, Kirby uses stone.

Question:Does Kirby Dair out prioritize Olimar Uair?

Question:Whats stages should I take Kirby to?

Question:What should my general Strategy be? All I can think of is spam and run, but Kirby's running speed is faster then Olimar's

Edit: I also disagree with DanGR on the Snake match-up

 

[Llumys]

Dair>uair, not sure about yellow uair, though.

 

[Fino]

Dair>uair, not sure about yellow uair, though.

I thought that the only dair that oli's uair doesn't go through is DDD's. Or at least I remember reading that somewhere.... hmm...


~Fino

 

[DanGR]

I know Ike's, Zelda's (sweet spotted), and Ness' dair will beat it out as well. They might not go through a more durable purple though. Maybe not a yellow either. Or maybe I just did it wrong. I dunno. Don't take this as fact. <_<

Also, I'm about 90% sure that Olimar's upair will beat out Kirby's dair.