Llumys
Smash Champion
Yeah, of course he's top tier for a reason.
I use him for that reason, and not his position on the tier list.
I use him for that reason, and not his position on the tier list.
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Olimar Matchup Thread
- Thread starter DtJ Hilt
- Start date
- Status
Fino
Smash Master
Contradiction much?
Your first post was actually just completely ******** to begin with. Your second one is getting worse. Just stop.
~Fino
Tin Man
Smash Hero
while we are talking about it, lumys, why Olimar?
Noa.
Smash Master
My Matchup Overview
This list is composed with terms with specific definitions.
-An even matchup means that both characters share around an equal amount of weaknesses and advantages. The better plaery will always win and equally skilled players will go back and forth.
-Advantageous and disadvantageous matchups signify that a character has a significant head on a matchup. The better player will still always win, but between equal players the advantageous player will win almost every match, albeit closely.
-Unwinnable matchups are when a character completely shuts down the other. The advantageous character will always win, even if the other player is much better.
*All explanations assume that both players know the matchup
Unwinnable for other:
Zelda
Bowser
Sonic
Captain Falcon
Ganondorf
Jigglypuff
Samus
Link
Kirby
Advantage:
Pikachu
Mr. G&W
Lucario
Pit
Pokemon Trainer
Ness
Lucas
Fox
Ike
Mario
Even:
Snake
Diddy
Wario
Falco
King DDD
ROB
ZSS
DK
Sheik
Wolf
Toon Link
Disadvantage:
MK
Marth
Ice Climbers
Peach
Luigi
Unwinnable for Oli:
This list is composed with terms with specific definitions.
-An even matchup means that both characters share around an equal amount of weaknesses and advantages. The better plaery will always win and equally skilled players will go back and forth.
-Advantageous and disadvantageous matchups signify that a character has a significant head on a matchup. The better player will still always win, but between equal players the advantageous player will win almost every match, albeit closely.
-Unwinnable matchups are when a character completely shuts down the other. The advantageous character will always win, even if the other player is much better.
*All explanations assume that both players know the matchup
Unwinnable for other:
Zelda
Bowser
Sonic
Captain Falcon
Ganondorf
Jigglypuff
Samus
Link
Kirby
Advantage:
Pikachu
Mr. G&W
Lucario
Pit
Pokemon Trainer
Ness
Lucas
Fox
Ike
Mario
Even:
Snake
Diddy
Wario
Falco
King DDD
ROB
ZSS
DK
Sheik
Wolf
Toon Link
Disadvantage:
MK
Marth
Ice Climbers
Peach
Luigi
Unwinnable for Oli:
Llumys
Smash Champion
Olimar?
'Cause he's unique.
Olimar mains that completely disregard his line make me sad.
(cough)
'Cause he's unique.
Olimar mains that completely disregard his line make me sad.
(cough)
Sky Pirate
The best defense is a lot of frigging healing
I've never had trouble with Dedede and always thought that he was a pretty easy matchup for us. If I may ask, Draco, why do you believe that Dedede is even?
EDIT: Ooh, Llumys. You set yourself up so hard in the post you made after this one. It was tempting. :3
EDIT: Ooh, Llumys. You set yourself up so hard in the post you made after this one. It was tempting. :3
Llumys
Smash Champion
I'm ******** too, 'cause I have the same question but no answer. .-.
BOB SAGET!
Smash Lord
King DDD even? WTF? lol
Noa.
Smash Master
The fact that DDD can get one grab and almost gurantee a gimp is pretty big in my opinion. He's not that hard to stop in regards to him approaching too. But maybe it is an advantage.
I don't feel too strongly about all the matchups I posted.
I don't feel too strongly about all the matchups I posted.
Tin Man
Smash Hero
DDDs ftilt spam is notorious as well, hey bob saget, where were u yesterday???
Can we discuss Wario next?
Can we discuss Wario next?
MJG
Smash Hero
I lol'd
I just notice that when he doesn't have a good response, you will here "no u" with something followed by that most of the time.
Olimar boards are becoming dead like ours ;(
Llumys
Smash Champion
no u
Using a character 'cause they're good is different than using them because of their position on the tier list. I use him because of the reason he's top tier, which is because he's amazing.
I didn't contradict myself.
Using a character 'cause they're good is different than using them because of their position on the tier list. I use him because of the reason he's top tier, which is because he's amazing.
I didn't contradict myself.
BOB SAGET!
Smash Lord
I didnt go, i posted that a while ago in the thread i coudnt go anymore. Thers an 80% chance of me going to LBT though. Ill probably be there.
Noa.
Smash Master
Llumys, you're just kinda being stupid.
I just played a DDD yesterday. I might think it's an advantage now. Still perfectably winnable for him though.
I just played a DDD yesterday. I might think it's an advantage now. Still perfectably winnable for him though.
Llumys
Smash Champion
no u
I think it's an advantage, but not necessarily by too much.
I think it's an advantage, but not necessarily by too much.
Tin Man
Smash Hero
i agree with Llumys, did ur DDD ftilt spam Dracona?
arg BOB saget, reach tourneys
really wants to be discussing the fat *** (er wario) next plz
arg BOB saget, reach tourneys
really wants to be discussing the fat *** (er wario) next plz
DtJ Hilt
Little Lizard
Yeah it's definitely our favor, but not by too large of an amount. 60:40, if you would. As for the next matchup discussion, what does everyone think?
Llumys
Smash Champion
Lol.
If we actually do manage to discuss it properly, that's fine.
If no one's up for Meta Knight again, I think Zero Suit Samus, Toon Link, or Pit would be appropriate.
If we actually do manage to discuss it properly, that's fine.
If no one's up for Meta Knight again, I think Zero Suit Samus, Toon Link, or Pit would be appropriate.
Tin Man
Smash Hero
Wario Wario Wario plz
mcmuff1nman
Smash Lord
i fail so much against him >_>
Noa.
Smash Master
I think we should discuss Wario since he's the last top tier we haven't discussed.
Dabuz
Fraud at Smash
called it
also...if we discuss MK again...i will write an essay that will solve fighting MK forever xD, cause im tired of this >_>
DtJ Hilt
Little Lizard
Just bring back up the last MK Discussion thread. The discussion in that thread didn't completely die either. If you could give us a write up of what you know on it, Dabuz, that'd be great.
Sky Pirate
The best defense is a lot of frigging healing
Thank you for saying exactly what I've been trying to say this entire time, dabuz. ^^
Llumys
Smash Champion
xDD
dabuz wins.
Wario sounds good, though.
dabuz wins.
Wario sounds good, though.
DtJ Hilt
Little Lizard
Updated the first post with some matchup number changes. Lemme hear some opinions on what everyone thinks should be changed :D
Fino
Smash Master
Changes in red
¤Vivi Orunitia¤
Smash Apprentice
Hmmmm, Fino don't you think that you should of put the changed ones in the areas where they belong because I don't think that a 60:40 ratio is a neutral match up. =O
Dabuz
Fraud at Smash
ok, because school/ life stinks ATM instead of writing an essay on this matchup...imma just condense my most important thoughts of how to play the perfect matchup into guidelines >_>
WHAT TO DO:
spam fsmash and grab at all times when not up close to MK...but be random with them (including with charging fsmashes and delaying grabs)...those two moves cover most approaches...forcing an approaching MK into a guessing game where we cover more than half his options with each move
if MK decides to approach by the air...there are 2 good guys to punish him, shield tilting stops tornado and leaves good punishments...and just in general you can run up and shield his dair and upair him OOS 100% of time
FOR FINO: B BUTTON AND DAIR CAMP IS BEATEN OUT BY USING SHIELD THE PUNISH
abuse yellow priority...until about 90% its always good to have yellows
if you must side-b never jump to do it
be aggressive with moves in the air (instead of whistling and airdodging, using nair, fair, and dair)
whistle the last hit of nado...i used to for a while when i fastfalled through it but never realized you could DI the tornado into whistling the last hit(someone explain how this is done) very very powerful punish move and scares MK into not using tornado
if MK is in the air and you are not sure if he will attempt to airdodge an upair or upsmash, nair will destroy any airdodge attempt 90% of the time
shielding MKs on ledge above you=free upsmash, if MK is knocked off an edge while shielding he is one of the characters that cannot do anything in the falling animation until he hits the ground or falls for more then 2 seconds about
you can dair MK out of his two good recovery moves...up-b and side b...learn the timing and do it
DON'T DO:
shorthop/ fullhop side b, in that time frame MK can get right up to olimar and destroy him in so many ways
do any action forcing you closer to an edge, that includes things like pivot grabs (which is almost useless in this matchup)...you are just giving up space and telling the MK he can slowly force you to the edge with pressure/ time
shield/ roll/ spotdodge/ airdodge, MK has too many good ways to punish all these moves and often its a high risk ----low reward manuever with better options
let MK get close to olimar...if he does be creative because it is literally a 50-50 guessing game at this point
NEW SECTION: METAKNIGHTS ****ING TORNADO D:
ok, MK's tornado is gay...we know that...now...its something that really gives him an advantage over us because its a pressure tool...so...im gonna compile a section of how to counter it, its the only thing that really makes this matchup from close to even to disadvantage IMO
ways to beat out tornado:
UP-B anywhere on tornado
yellow fsmash at bottom of tornado (tested and 100% true and practical)
nair at top of tornado
purple side b into tornado
cancel out tornado:
some tilts (IDK, ill figure out later xD)
punish tornado (not inside tornado yet):
tilted shield up...even though an unfull shield can still be poked if they move on and off the shield during tornado...so...watch out for that trick, BTW, if they start running away during the tornado then your going to be forced to run and grab when they land, otherwise they can tornado again and your shield won't hold, also, on the landing a common mix up im seeing now is they can UP-B to beat out the grab or anything to punish, try to predict and shield the up-B, if you do MK will be in a position directly above you mid glide
if the MK doesn't run away, assuming you shielded the whole tornado your best bet is to dsmash so you don't do an attack in one direction when he falls to the other direction
punishing the tornado (inside the tornado): surprisingly with really good DI there are ways to escape (to be put in later when someone explains how exactly your supposed to DI)
stages to CP (in order of personal preference):
Castle Siege
YI
FD
Halberd
common MK CPs and how to fight on them:
RC...probably the easiest one to fight him on...the boat has locks and perfect distance for our fsmash/ grabs on left side...right side is evil, otherwise always make the attempt to stay below MK when the stage is rising, which is do able, pendulum=stall and make rush to get to next part first, watch out for up throw gimps while rising or falling stage areas
Frigate: riskiest stage to fight him on...i ban this on MK now because its the worst stage for us in this matchup, the first part obviously stinks because spawning on right side is a nightmare, left side leaves us open from a quick approach first part of stage isn't right size or structure to play a good fsmash/ grab ground game, especially in phase 2 because the high part is next to an edge, the dip is the only part in this matchup where i advise using pivot grab...his running grab can beat out our regular grab while in that dip otherwise, but his other approaches are very limited
brinstar: this entire stage is a battle to get the other person above us and be as gay as possible with out aerial techniques, if we get above him we probably die, if he gets above us since we can run about the same speed he moves in air we can definitely keep him aerial and kill him as well, watch out for him fast falling dairs, they can put us in the aerial position very fast, also be aware of the tornado onto a weird ramped part where we can't grab him, this entire match will be us using our upair, nair, upsmash, and up-b
Disclaimer: all these tactics are a by product of dabuz not wanting to discuss MK again, there are exceptions to all these ideas, these are just general tactics proven to be highly effective...if you disagree I DON'T GIVE A ****!
*sighs* ok, done, i hope this isn't too stupid xD
WHAT TO DO:
spam fsmash and grab at all times when not up close to MK...but be random with them (including with charging fsmashes and delaying grabs)...those two moves cover most approaches...forcing an approaching MK into a guessing game where we cover more than half his options with each move
if MK decides to approach by the air...there are 2 good guys to punish him, shield tilting stops tornado and leaves good punishments...and just in general you can run up and shield his dair and upair him OOS 100% of time
FOR FINO: B BUTTON AND DAIR CAMP IS BEATEN OUT BY USING SHIELD THE PUNISH
abuse yellow priority...until about 90% its always good to have yellows
if you must side-b never jump to do it
be aggressive with moves in the air (instead of whistling and airdodging, using nair, fair, and dair)
whistle the last hit of nado...i used to for a while when i fastfalled through it but never realized you could DI the tornado into whistling the last hit(someone explain how this is done) very very powerful punish move and scares MK into not using tornado
if MK is in the air and you are not sure if he will attempt to airdodge an upair or upsmash, nair will destroy any airdodge attempt 90% of the time
shielding MKs on ledge above you=free upsmash, if MK is knocked off an edge while shielding he is one of the characters that cannot do anything in the falling animation until he hits the ground or falls for more then 2 seconds about
you can dair MK out of his two good recovery moves...up-b and side b...learn the timing and do it
DON'T DO:
shorthop/ fullhop side b, in that time frame MK can get right up to olimar and destroy him in so many ways
do any action forcing you closer to an edge, that includes things like pivot grabs (which is almost useless in this matchup)...you are just giving up space and telling the MK he can slowly force you to the edge with pressure/ time
shield/ roll/ spotdodge/ airdodge, MK has too many good ways to punish all these moves and often its a high risk ----low reward manuever with better options
let MK get close to olimar...if he does be creative because it is literally a 50-50 guessing game at this point
NEW SECTION: METAKNIGHTS ****ING TORNADO D:
ok, MK's tornado is gay...we know that...now...its something that really gives him an advantage over us because its a pressure tool...so...im gonna compile a section of how to counter it, its the only thing that really makes this matchup from close to even to disadvantage IMO
ways to beat out tornado:
UP-B anywhere on tornado
yellow fsmash at bottom of tornado (tested and 100% true and practical)
nair at top of tornado
purple side b into tornado
cancel out tornado:
some tilts (IDK, ill figure out later xD)
punish tornado (not inside tornado yet):
tilted shield up...even though an unfull shield can still be poked if they move on and off the shield during tornado...so...watch out for that trick, BTW, if they start running away during the tornado then your going to be forced to run and grab when they land, otherwise they can tornado again and your shield won't hold, also, on the landing a common mix up im seeing now is they can UP-B to beat out the grab or anything to punish, try to predict and shield the up-B, if you do MK will be in a position directly above you mid glide
if the MK doesn't run away, assuming you shielded the whole tornado your best bet is to dsmash so you don't do an attack in one direction when he falls to the other direction
punishing the tornado (inside the tornado): surprisingly with really good DI there are ways to escape (to be put in later when someone explains how exactly your supposed to DI)
stages to CP (in order of personal preference):
Castle Siege
YI
FD
Halberd
common MK CPs and how to fight on them:
RC...probably the easiest one to fight him on...the boat has locks and perfect distance for our fsmash/ grabs on left side...right side is evil, otherwise always make the attempt to stay below MK when the stage is rising, which is do able, pendulum=stall and make rush to get to next part first, watch out for up throw gimps while rising or falling stage areas
Frigate: riskiest stage to fight him on...i ban this on MK now because its the worst stage for us in this matchup, the first part obviously stinks because spawning on right side is a nightmare, left side leaves us open from a quick approach first part of stage isn't right size or structure to play a good fsmash/ grab ground game, especially in phase 2 because the high part is next to an edge, the dip is the only part in this matchup where i advise using pivot grab...his running grab can beat out our regular grab while in that dip otherwise, but his other approaches are very limited
brinstar: this entire stage is a battle to get the other person above us and be as gay as possible with out aerial techniques, if we get above him we probably die, if he gets above us since we can run about the same speed he moves in air we can definitely keep him aerial and kill him as well, watch out for him fast falling dairs, they can put us in the aerial position very fast, also be aware of the tornado onto a weird ramped part where we can't grab him, this entire match will be us using our upair, nair, upsmash, and up-b
Disclaimer: all these tactics are a by product of dabuz not wanting to discuss MK again, there are exceptions to all these ideas, these are just general tactics proven to be highly effective...if you disagree I DON'T GIVE A ****!
*sighs* ok, done, i hope this isn't too stupid xD
Noa.
Smash Master
Dabuz you're amazing. Some of them I already found out but there's some good **** there. Your efforts are greatly apreciated.
DtJ Hilt
Little Lizard
Dabuz I love you.
Dooms
KY/KP Joey
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Thank you so much Dabuz, now i won't suck against mk's <3.
Fino
Smash Master
I'll try these out in colorado, which will be my last tournament if I lose to mk twice again. Most likely might be my last anyways.
BOB SAGET!
Smash Lord
Nice job Dabuz. U the best!
Llumys
Smash Champion
I came.
Dabuz
Fraud at Smash
i got bored and decided to add a new section...on tornado xD, not finished ATM though 
Noa.
Smash Master
Dabuz you just keep getting better with the info. I feel that the tornado is what makes the matchup a disadvantage too. If it weren't for that, it would be even.
Dotcom
Smash Lord
I feel warm after reading that.
Sky Pirate
The best defense is a lot of frigging healing
Wow. I didn't expect the Frigate ban.
Good stuff, dabuz.
EDIT: On another note, wasn't Marth discussed thoroughly in an AIM/YIM chat a long time ago? Was any of that posted somewhere?
Good stuff, dabuz.
EDIT: On another note, wasn't Marth discussed thoroughly in an AIM/YIM chat a long time ago? Was any of that posted somewhere?
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